Reasonable Doubt

[TakeNote]

Audio Background Snippets So far: Most are hard because of the poor audio quaility of the samples.
There is lots of background talk but most is hard to distinguish.

911 Call 2: KC Crying In Background On Mom's Call Wanting Her Arrested.

911 Call 3: After CA Tells Caylee's birthday KC says "You didn't have the right to go through it"



911 Call 3: When CA tries to hand over the phone she says, "You'll Never Get Me To Talk To Them".

911 Call 3: After "My Daughter has been missing for 31 days." CA says, "Whatever."

911 Call 3: Operator: "Did you guys call to report a vehicle stolen"-CA says, "I called"

911 Call 3: What vehicle was stolen? no. this is my vehicle.: CA The ? was stolen.

911 Call 3: When Operator is reading description of daughter back she says, "Duh"


911 Call 3: The Police Arrive: CA calmy says," Ok here comes the Sheriff are you ready for him?"


Will see what other background conversation I can get out.

IT would be awesome if you could post it.....or put it on you tube or something

 

[Pink Panther]

IT would be awesome if you could post it.....or put it on you tube or something

I agree with TakeNote! It would be great to hear this!

 

[jomasano]

I think Baez can try any theory he wants. But anyway you look at it, her daughter was not with her anymore and she didn't know where she was for ''31 days''... according to Casey. The videos, testimony from people who saw her during that time, her text messages will tell all about her behavior and that's what is going to prove her guilty of murder.

Nowhere have we heard that she was anxious, not herself, desperate like any mother who doesn't know where her child is for a very long ''31 days''! That's not child neglect anymore, that's murder.

Let's say Baez tries the Zanny theory, she tried herself to look for her, she had a script etc. Why lie to the police on july 15 ? She should have been very happy that finally the truth was out, she would now have help to find Caylee! Noooo! She lied !

Her behavior and her lies will convict her of murder, the forensic evidence will make the case stronger, like it did for Scott Peterson.

 

[Brini]

1.Hair yanked from someone's head with skin attached WILL NOT show the same signs of decomposition. The body has to be in a state of decomposition with the scalp and hair "let loose" before there are "death rings" on the follicles.

2. Could you provide a link to where the decomposition air tests were proved inaccurate? I have not found one instance where they have not proved accurate in court. Keep in mind they not only have those tests but TWO cadaver dogs hitting on the same areas.

3. Interesting you say "other than those two things" they have no real evidence. Those two things are non reputable evidence. Go to U.T. Body Farm website and forensic anthropology sites to understand why I say that.

3. Those two things are just the "tip of the iceberg" of their evidence.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Brini]

How are you making those out? Just listening closely or do you have some sort of program that you can turn up the background somehow?

GEEZ, LOUISE! Good stuff!:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Brini]

Hi Hisimage! I don't know if this helps any - I didn't see the NG show or hear that part, but the "pin it on me" part is actually from that phone call home when kc kept asking for TL's ph#.... IIRC she was speaking to KC & it was like kc said "They already said they're gonna pin this on me if they don't find her"....

which I actually took to make NO SENSE whatsoever at that time.... I was thinking "pin WHAT if they don't find her"?!!

Then later, TL claimed he got a text mssg from kc's phone [I think AH stated this to LE during her interview & asked them ask TL about it] but anyways the gist was TL allegedly got a text mssg the same day kc was 1st arrested that said something along the lines of "guess who's going to jail for a long time if they don't ever find her [Caylee]...

which was even MORE disturbing.... imo

GEEZ! Those are almost admissions!

 

[MiraclesHappen]

Audio Background Snippets So far: Most are hard because of the poor audio quaility of the samples.
There is lots of background talk but most is hard to distinguish.

911 Call 2: KC Crying In Background On Mom's Call Wanting Her Arrested.

911 Call 3: After CA Tells Caylee's birthday KC says "You didn't have the right to go through it" http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/4/1407059/you%20didn%27t%20have%20the%20right.mp3

911 Call 3: When CA tries to hand over the phone she says, "You'll Never Get Me To Talk To Them". http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/4/1407059/Never%20Going%20To%20Talk%20To%20Em.mp3

911 Call 3: After "My Daughter has been missing for 31 days." CA says, "Whatever." http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/4/1407059/Whatever.mp3

911 Call 3: Operator: "Did you guys call to report a vehicle stolen"-CA says, "I called" http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/4/1407059/I%20called.mp3

911 Call 3: What vehicle was stolen? no. this is my vehicle.: CA The ? was stolen. http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/4/1407059/stolen.mp3

911 Call 3: When Operator is reading description of daughter back she says, "Duh" http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/4/1407059/duh.mp3


911 Call 3: The Police Arrive: CA calmly says," Ok here comes the Sheriff are you ready for him?" http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/4/1407059/Sheriff.mp3


Will see what other background conversation I can get out.

Wow leoPhoenix, this stuff is amazing....will you be able to put it up somehow for us. Are you getting anything else. Am I annoying you. If so, please ignore me!:blowkiss:

 

[pizmex]

Just popped in for a few seconds - my $0.02 worth: if they are looking to get reasonable doubt, they had better find 12 childless-jurors. The scientific evidence, phone/text/video evidence ....

The defense only needs one juror, not all twelve. Just one. It is the State that needs all 12 jurors for a conviction. Anything less is either an acquital (no jurors for the defense) or a hung jury (one thru 11 jurors for the defense).

 

[Lady Loves Lurking]

Using an audio filter program to lessen the background static. Sniping sections between the forefront conversation and increasing the volume and doing some eq. I use Goldwave sort of an audio studio type program. Sometimes slowing the voices down from 1.00-.92 to hear better amongst the leftover static. I've been using it to clean up live concert material for 15 years. If LE has the orignal files they can get better samples than me because the News audio is very low quality.

wow. that's really cool. thanks for all the info.

 

[kathyn2]

Its not exactly an acquittal. Its a mistrial. An acquittal is if ALL the jurors voted her innocent. If they had 1 juror that said not guilty, the state would retry her and she would go back to jail and await a new trial. Or to put it backwards, if even 1 juror votes her guilty, she would also go back on trial and go back to jail and wait. This gal is going down, one day or another. Just like those 2 boys that killed their parents had a mistrial, they were retried and convicted!

The defense only needs one juror, not all twelve. Just one. It is the State that needs all 12 jurors for a conviction. Anything less is either an acquital (no jurors for the defense) or a hung jury (one thru 11 jurors for the defense).

 

[pizmex]

Its not exactly an acquittal. Its a mistrial. An acquittal is if ALL the jurors voted her innocent.

That's exactly what I said. Re-read my post, including the parentheses!

 

[MysteryMachine]

Cindy has already alluded to that when she said something to the effect of "there was no odor before the car was towed .... no odor". Homicide is going to be hard to prove without a body in this case.

What does Cindy know about when the car was towed? She was not there, so that is the same as you or me saying that. Cindy also said she has not seen her DAUGHTER for a MONTH if you listen to the 9-1-1 call. How could she know if there was a smell or not when Casey had the car and Cindy had not seen her in a month? Also, if the last time Cindy saw Casey and Caylee was June 15th-16th, Caylee was obviously alive, therefore, no smell yet. Cindy is not a witness to the smell or lack of.

Next, read the DOCUMENTS, etc. You will see CASEY said there WAS a smell before the car was abandoned. Therefore, if KC knew and documented the smell was there, how can you believe Cindy who wasn't around the car at all?

KC also lied and said her DAD ran over something and he said he NEVER drove the car. Why did she lie about that unless to blame him for the obvious odor.

Then Casey goes on to say IT WAS A SQUIRREL AND I GOT RID OF IT - SO NO MORE ODOR. This is proof there was an odor before Casey abandoned the car. I believe she abandoned the car because even though she "got rid of the odor" - IMO - disposed of the body - the smell would not go away as she assumed. If you read ALL the docs out so far, and realize that there is a lot more to come, you will see a clear picture of what happened.

 

[MysteryMachine]

Honestly, I think with what we have right now, she could walk on everything connected to Caylee. Yes, she has lied, but Casey was not the last verified person to be seen with the child, that would cast doubt.

As crazy as her story is, she has stuck to the important points, when, where, who.

The car showing the signs of decomp was out of her possession. Even though there are no signs of tampering, the car was out of her possession for a little while.

Since others have addressed the obvious FACTS of the case, reputable testings, samples, etc, I will address a couple points highlighted above:

WHO (name, etc.) was this "verified" person last seen with Caylee besides KC? Are you talking about in KC's land of make-believe where the people don't exist? I have read the DOCS, etc. and I do not see anyone besides KC having full responsibility of Caylee.

Wow, do you really think she has "stuck" to the who, what, when, where facts? She said Zen at the Sawgrass, then Zen at the J.Blanchard Park with her sis the accomplice, the times, people, location, etc,. are very different in both situations. Her family (based on letters KC wrote to them) stated that they KNOW who has Caylee and they are 'watching them'. They state the family is in danger, then say Caylee is not in danger. It goes round and round, so how is this sticking to the same story??

Lastly, the car, the smell, the decomp, etc. was there when KC told her friend that her car had a horrible smell, the lie that her DAD ran over something while driving it (which Dad denies). Then KC goes on to say she "GOT RID OF THE SMELL - SQUIRREL" - which IMO is when she "got rid" of Caylee.

We don't even have all the facts yet, but if you read it all, you will see a more clear picture of what happened and when.

 

[Brini]

Cindy has already alluded to that when she said something to the effect of "there was no odor before the car was towed .... no odor". Homicide is going to be hard to prove without a body in this case.

What does Cindy know about when the car was towed? She was not there, so that is the same as you or me saying that. Cindy also said she has not seen her DAUGHTER for a MONTH if you listen to the 9-1-1 call. How could she know if there was a smell or not when Casey had the car and Cindy had not seen her in a month? Also, if the last time Cindy saw Casey and Caylee was June 15th-16th, Caylee was obviously alive, therefore, no smell yet. Cindy is not a witness to the smell or lack of.

Next, read the DOCUMENTS, etc. You will see CASEY said there WAS a smell before the car was abandoned. Therefore, if KC knew and documented the smell was there, how can you believe Cindy who wasn't around the car at all?

KC also lied and said her DAD ran over something and he said he NEVER drove the car. Why did she lie about that unless to blame him for the obvious odor.

Then Casey goes on to say IT WAS A SQUIRREL AND I GOT RID OF IT - SO NO MORE ODOR. This is proof there was an odor before Casey abandoned the car. I believe she abandoned the car because even though she "got rid of the odor" - IMO - disposed of the body - the smell would not go away as she assumed. If you read ALL the docs out so far, and realize that there is a lot more to come, you will see a clear picture of what happened.

CA said she grilled the auto yard employees and they told her there was no odor in the car when it was towed. Which was what they told LE, of course.

 

[Brini]

I think Baez can try any theory he wants. But anyway you look at it, her daughter was not with her anymore and she didn't know where she was for ''31 days''... according to Casey. The videos, testimony from people who saw her during that time, her text messages will tell all about her behavior and that's what is going to prove her guilty of murder.

Nowhere have we heard that she was anxious, not herself, desperate like any mother who doesn't know where her child is for a very long ''31 days''! That's not child neglect anymore, that's murder.

Let's say Baez tries the Zanny theory, she tried herself to look for her, she had a script etc. Why lie to the police on july 15 ? She should have been very happy that finally the truth was out, she would now have help to find Caylee! Noooo! She lied !

Her behavior and her lies will convict her of murder, the forensic evidence will make the case stronger, like it did for Scott Peterson.

Exactly! Two insurmountable KC problems: Who had the baby when she disappeared? Who had the car with the decomp? Same answer.

 

[Dutchie Treat]

Does anyone get the same bad feeling I'm getting reading all of this defense talk? Anthony spokesman Bart saying that there are "a lot of tips" re: an alive Caylee at Orlando Int'l Airport? Press conference planned?

I'm wondering a lot of things right now:

1. Why get Henry Lee on board if you think Caylee is alive and will be found?
2. Do you not believe she will be found in time for the trial?
3. Why wait so long to go after these tips and why just turn it into something for the media by calling a press conference?
4. Is this smoke and mirrors?
5. What did José think when he sniffed the car?

I think that the defense and the A's are trying to create reasonable doubt in any way possible and they are succeeding somewhat in the public eye.

I hope LE has a better case than what has been presented in the released documents. Reasonable doubt is going to be the strategy. They may have a chance to hang the jury this way.

Anyone else getting nervous and MAD :furious: at all of the dodging tactics of the A camp??

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

Does anyone get the same bad feeling I'm getting reading all of this defense talk? Anthony spokesman Bart saying that there are "a lot of tips" re: an alive Caylee at Orlando Int'l Airport? Press conference planned?

I'm wondering a lot of things right now:

1. Why get Henry Lee on board if you think Caylee is alive and will be found?
2. Do you not believe she will be found in time for the trial?
3. Why wait so long to go after these tips and why just turn it into something for the media by calling a press conference?
4. Is this smoke and mirrors?
5. What did José think when he sniffed the car?

I think that the defense and the A's are trying to create reasonable doubt in any way possible and they are succeeding somewhat in the public eye.

I hope LE has a better case than what has been presented in the released documents. Reasonable doubt is going to be the strategy. They may have a chance to hang the jury this way.

Anyone else getting nervous and MAD :furious: at all of the dodging tactics of the A camp??

Not nervous as I think even with all the dumps of information, the prosecutors still know more than we do and still know that they can meet their burden of proof.

But, yes, the antics from the A camp never cease to amaze and tick me off - it seems like they are keeping the spotlight on them and their crazed ravings, when it should be on finding Caylee and also on other missing persons.

 

[TxLady2]

Here is my answers to your questions:

1. Why get Henry Lee on board if you think Caylee is alive and will be found?
To help the defense in Casey's case. They need all the help they can get.

2. Do you not believe she will be found in time for the trial?
What does this matter what WE believe... it is what the jury believes that will
matter.
3. Why wait so long to go after these tips and why just turn it into something for the media by calling a press conference?
In all fairness, they probably have checked these tips when they came in, but are
now trying to convince the public, i.e., jury pool, that Caylee is alive and Casey is
innocent.
4. Is this smoke and mirrors? Yes
5. What did José think when he sniffed the car?
You need to ask Jose... we're not mind readers.

Okay, seriously now... everyone has the right to a defense attorney when they go on trial, and it is the defense attorney's job to create reasonable doubt. They don't have to prove anything... that is the prosecution's job. So I really do not understand what the problem is here. Don't worry about them right now. Unless you are picked to be on the jury, all you can do... all WE can do... is wait for the trial and see what happens.
Henry Lee's credibility was shot during the M. Peterson case and the Phil Specter case. He's pretty smart... but he'e not a magician.

 

[TripleA]

Okay, seriously now... everyone has the right to a defense attorney when they go on trial, and it is the defense attorney's job to create reasonable doubt. They don't have to prove anything... that is the prosecution's job. So I really do not understand what the problem is here. Don't worry about them right now. Unless you are picked to be on the jury, all you can do... all WE can do... is wait for the trial and see what happens.
Henry Lee's credibility was shot during the M. Peterson case and the Phil Specter case. He's pretty smart... but he'e not a magician.

I agree, she has the right to a defense. All of this smoke and mirrors just makes me think that she is guilty of intentionally murdering Caylee. If it were an accident, it would seem that playing the grieving mother, admitting her mistake and begging for mercy would be more likely to work in her favor. This circus just makes her look worse IMO, as if she knows that if/when Caylee's body is found it will prove malintent and maybe even premeditation.

 

[FloridaKatz]

Not nervous as I think even with all the dumps of information, the prosecutors still know more than we do and still know that they can meet their burden of proof.

But, yes, the antics from the A camp never cease to amaze and tick me off - it seems like they are keeping the spotlight on them and their crazed ravings, when it should be on finding Caylee and also on other missing persons.

ITA. The DA would not have waited so long and then handed down a Murder 1 charge if they didn't think they have what it takes to get a conviction. They know ALOT more than we do.

The A's are just trying to get a jump start on swaying the potential jury pool here in Florida, IMHO .....