Reasonable Doubt

[McNugget]

I don't think there's enough evidence leaning towards premeditation- yet. And I don't think Casey would tell the truth even though the whole thing was an accident- she will never make herself look bad, even if it means taking the heat off of a more serious conviction.

 

[DTFulmer]

Listen to this audio of an independent caller to LP. In this conversation, he asks her if she sees any holes in the timeline. After you have listened, look at this calendar a fellow WS'er put together and see if you see any holes.

http://www.myspace.com/caseyanthonyneedsprison4life

Here is the calendar -

I just went to listen to this call with LP, but the call is the same girl talking to Cindy Anthony. Where to post??

http://www.myspace.com/caseyanthonyneedsprison4life

 

[not_my_kids]

Honestly, I think with what we have right now, she could walk on everything connected to Caylee.
Yes, she has lied, but Casey was not the last verified person to be seen with the child, that would cast doubt.
We know of at least one very reputable expert who would testify that the technology used to detect decomp is hardly better than experimental.
THe same expert would testify that there are possibly other things that can form the bands on the hair. The banding is what is being determined as evidence that Caylee is dead.
As crazy as her story is, she has stuck to the important points, when, where, who.
There is only one person in the statements we have seen, that has said that Casey did not want Caylee and that person already destroyed her credibility by swearing that Casey called her for money and then backtracked and said it was a different Casey.
The car showing the signs of decomp was out of her possession. Even though there are no signs of tampering, the car was out of her possession for a little while.
There were no former complaints of abuse of mistreatment against anyone involved with Casey.
There are people, many of them, that will testify that Casey knew she could have signed Caylee over to her parents if she no longer wanted her and had no reason to do anything to her.
So for motive, we have nothing.
Opportunity, yes.
Means, yes.
A jury would be reluctant to send a 23 year old woman to jail. ( I think she will be 23 by the time she goes to trial.) They would need more than circumstantial evidence.
Remember, even though she has lied, I am sure that there will experts called to the stand to speak about compulsive lying.
ANd as far as proving Caylee is dead, good luck. There is evidence, but it is already being highly disputed as to whether or not the tests themselves are reliable. You can bet it will be ten times worse in court.

 

[Breaking Heart]

Personally, I would not convict on circumstantial evidence alone. In many trials, not ALL evidence is presented to the juror's...for example, because it was obtained without a warrant. At times, it is that one piece of evidence that was thrown out that would leave the juror's with reasonable doubt. If I am asked to decide a person's fate, I want conclusive forensic results to back up the circumstantial evidence. As this case stands right now, at this moment, and assuming what has been reported by the media is truth, IMO, there is reasonable doubt that Caylee is dead, and there is reasonable doubt that Casey was responsible for her death.

 

[Breaking Heart]

Honestly, I think with what we have right now, she could walk on everything connected to Caylee.
Yes, she has lied, but Casey was not the last verified person to be seen with the child, that would cast doubt.
We know of at least one very reputable expert who would testify that the technology used to detect decomp is hardly better than experimental.
THe same expert would testify that there are possibly other things that can form the bands on the hair. The banding is what is being determined as evidence that Caylee is dead.
As crazy as her story is, she has stuck to the important points, when, where, who.
There is only one person in the statements we have seen, that has said that Casey did not want Caylee and that person already destroyed her credibility by swearing that Casey called her for money and then backtracked and said it was a different Casey.
The car showing the signs of decomp was out of her possession. Even though there are no signs of tampering, the car was out of her possession for a little while.
There were no former complaints of abuse of mistreatment against anyone involved with Casey.
There are people, many of them, that will testify that Casey knew she could have signed Caylee over to her parents if she no longer wanted her and had no reason to do anything to her.
So for motive, we have nothing.
Opportunity, yes.
Means, yes.
A jury would be reluctant to send a 23 year old woman to jail. ( I think she will be 23 by the time she goes to trial.) They would need more than circumstantial evidence.
Remember, even though she has lied, I am sure that there will experts called to the stand to speak about compulsive lying.
ANd as far as proving Caylee is dead, good luck. There is evidence, but it is already being highly disputed as to whether or not the tests themselves are reliable. You can bet it will be ten times worse in court.

IMO, you are right on the money with your assessment!

 

[LCoastMom]

If I were sitting in a jury box today, based soley on what we know right now I would feel comfortable finding Caylee guilty on all current charges and guilty of killing her baby but I'm not sure in which degree. My reasoning is quite simple; 1+1=2 (not 3 as Cindy asks us to believe.) (1) Caylee's DNA, showing decomp is in the car. (+) The car was last driven by Casey and she was the last person seen with Caylee (=) Caylee is dead, by Casey's hand or neglect.

Pending chemical and drug testing on Caylee's hair that will be my determining factor. I also don't need a body to say she murdered Caylee, based on scientific evidence.

While it's plain to see Casey has problems, I would not find her to be insane. An insane person couldn't carry out the ruse she put in motion, hiding the babies body, tossing 200+ baby pics, holding America by the short hairs for the last 8 weeks. It's too bad she didn't hide her, the way she lies, LE would have found the body before the ink was dry on the warrent.


It appears we may have a hung jury, I think both sides have compelling answers.

 

[LCoastMom]

"So for motive, we have nothing."


The witness statements all seem to say Casey is angry at her parents for controlling her; for motive I could say she wanted to get even with her parents for tying her down for last 3 years. Caylee was just her pawn not a separate human intitled to her own life. [this is evident by taking her to inapropriate places, putting her to sleep on a couch in the middle of a party, putting Caylee to bed with herselt and bf. Caylee had no say in these cases.

 

[Ladytazz]

Soooo, sometime between 6/16 (date Caylee last seen) and 6/27 (date the car was dropped off at Amscot), Caylee disappeared. We still do not know when she passed away. Surely, Casey wasn't driving around with Caylee in the trunk for 14 days.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the car first spotted at Amscot 6/27/08 at 7 am? Doesn't that mean it was probably dropped of on 6/26/08?

 

[not_my_kids]

"So for motive, we have nothing."


The witness statements all seem to say Casey is angry at her parents for controlling her; for motive I could say she wanted to get even with her parents for tying her down for last 3 years. Caylee was just her pawn not a separate human intitled to her own life. [this is evident by taking her to inapropriate places, putting her to sleep on a couch in the middle of a party, putting Caylee to bed with herselt and bf. Caylee had no say in these cases.

Yes, but lots of people have issues with controlling parents. Likely there will be at least one on the jury and it very likely that they will not have killed anyone. There are statement after statement saying that Casey and Caylee's relationship was affectionate and normal. If it goes to trial on murder charges, in any degree, the jury will be able to say that she was a bad parent, but that does not make a murderer.
It is a long stretch from "My mother loves Caylee, I want to hurt my mother." to "I am going to hurt Caylee because that would hurt my mother."
it's a possible motive, but very shaky.
I just don't think it will fly, with the statements and witnesses that will be presented.

 

[Firefly]

The LE needs to keep all items of evidence tightly wrapped until the best time to divulge it. This is maintain the integrity of the value it has to convict Casey.

This family is already trying the case in the court of public opinion. They have tried to give possible scenerios, no matter how crazy, to explain any evidence that is known. For example:

Pizza = decomp

car didn't smell when it was intially towed = someone must have placed a body in the car at the tow yard.

Casey not reporting Caylee missing = She was looking for the child herself

We WILL get all of this back at trial.

Casey has NEVER and will never admit to anything wrong. This is what will keep this case going. Keep her mother obstrucing an investigation....I forsee this as a possible problem for the A's in the future. ****Wouldn't it be rich if they arrested a family member for this?******

 

[magic-cat]

It sure would be nice to know if any of Caylee's DNA was found on the kitchen kife that was in the back seat of her car when it was towed...It HAD been washed, but maybe some tiny solitary cell landed in a crack in the handle or something...they never have discussed that kitchen knife much have they?

I have no reasonable doubt that Casey is ultimately responsible for the death of Caylee...

 

[milopedes]

I believe that KC is guilty, and I believe that Caylee is deceased. But a conviction to the crime is ultimately going to boil down to reasonable doubt.

This may not have anything to do with reasonable doubt, but I think LE is going to have to present an ironclad timeline to make this stick without Caylee being found.

Here is my concern:

June 16: GA sees KC and Caylee
June 18: Shovel borrowed/car backed into garage
June 24: Gas cans reported stolen. George in KC's trunk, no smell noted.
June 25: First known instance of "smelly car" cover story emerges (to Amy)

If we are to believe that KC didn't hide Caylee in the backyard somewhere, despite the dogs hitting on several spots, then based upon the known facts it would seem that the body would have been in the trunk at some point on or before June 18th, right?

Yet, in his conversation with Greta about the gas cans GA noted he went to the trunk of KC's car - despite her protests against him doing so - to get a tool to assist him with work on CA's car (i.e., tire rotation). This is important to note: He never mentioned a smell. Wouldn't there have been one by then, assuming KC killed Caylee on June 16th, and had her in the trunk at some point?

If we are to believe she had her hidden in the backyard until June 18th, when she borrowed the shovel, the body - now decomposing - still would have been in the trunk at some point.

Something just doesn't add up in my mind when reviewing these facts.

Any thoughts?

 

[weasel]

<<reasonable doubt can be established based on the fact that the car was out of her possession for weeks>>

You may be right. I have thought about the fact that she can say the car wasn't in her possession for weeks to create reasonable doubt. Cindy has already alluded to that when she said something to the effect of "there was no odor before the car was towed .... no odor". Homicide is going to be hard to prove without a body in this case. Unlike an adult who can pick up a phone or use a credit card, I think it's going to be harder to prove a child is deceased. Her prior history is that of a good mother, according to all accounts.

 

[magnolia]

Honestly, I think with what we have right now, she could walk on everything connected to Caylee.
Yes, she has lied, but Casey was not the last verified person to be seen with the child, that would cast doubt.
We know of at least one very reputable expert who would testify that the technology used to detect decomp is hardly better than experimental.

*Snipped*

I agree!! As we all know, it takes only one Juror to hold out because of reasonable doubt. There are people that believe the "Nanny took Caylee" story.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that the body will be found, and the State has more evidence than has been revealed to the Public.

It's not that I don't have confidence in LE and TES, but I will be very surprised if the body is found.

 

[pat19954]

the first phone call asking for Tony's phone number along with Cindy's 3rd 911 call will make it difficult for any jury to NOT convict her.

Huh Just what will they convict her of using those two instances ?

 

[pat19954]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the car first spotted at Amscot 6/27/08 at 7 am? Doesn't that mean it was probably dropped of on 6/26/08?

Why couldn't it have been dropped off sometime in the preceeding 7 hours of 6/27/08?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I have a firm belief that when this case is presented in full...the Prosecution will have left no room for any doubt at all. Their forensic evidence and all the other evidence they have obtained during the investigation including testimony will prove Caylee is deceased, she was in the care of Casey at the time, Casey will be connected directly to Caylee's death, and that there is no other way it could have taken place. I am not the least bit worried they cannot prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Maui4me]

I have a firm belief that when this case is presented in full...the Prosecution will have left no room for any doubt at all. Their forensic evidence and all the other evidence they have obtained during the investigation including testimony will prove Caylee is deceased, she was in the care of Casey at the time, Casey will be connected directly to Caylee's death, and that there is no other way it could have taken place. I am not the least bit worried they cannot prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt.

I am with ya, especially with text message about getting rid of smell in the car

 

[2goldfish]

I am with ya, especially with text message about getting rid of smell in the car

this is what stresses me about this case....


that proves that there was definitely a smell of decomp, and KC was definitely aware of it, and definitely took steps to make it seem resonable to others etc, so on....

....but it does not prove premeditation, so I have reasonable doubt...

but could still do capital murder charge (if it was during the commision of a felony, like child abuse, etc.) but given the evidence we know at this point in time, were I on the jury, agonizing as it is for me, I would never convict for murder 1 (in the premeditated sense) because there is a great deal of doubt for me.

 

[JMCDAD]

Honestly, I think with what we have right now, she could walk on everything connected to Caylee.
Yes, she has lied, but Casey was not the last verified person to be seen with the child, that would cast doubt.
We know of at least one very reputable expert who would testify that the technology used to detect decomp is hardly better than experimental.
THe same expert would testify that there are possibly other things that can form the bands on the hair. The banding is what is being determined as evidence that Caylee is dead.
As crazy as her story is, she has stuck to the important points, when, where, who.
There is only one person in the statements we have seen, that has said that Casey did not want Caylee and that person already destroyed her credibility by swearing that Casey called her for money and then backtracked and said it was a different Casey.

The car showing the signs of decomp was out of her possession. Even though there are no signs of tampering, the car was out of her possession for a little while.
There were no former complaints of abuse of mistreatment against anyone involved with Casey.
There are people, many of them, that will testify that Casey knew she could have signed Caylee over to her parents if she no longer wanted her and had no reason to do anything to her.
So for motive, we have nothing.
Opportunity, yes.
Means, yes.
A jury would be reluctant to send a 23 year old woman to jail. ( I think she will be 23 by the time she goes to trial.) They would need more than circumstantial evidence.
Remember, even though she has lied, I am sure that there will experts called to the stand to speak about compulsive lying.
ANd as far as proving Caylee is dead, good luck. There is evidence, but it is already being highly disputed as to whether or not the tests themselves are reliable. You can bet it will be ten times worse in court.

I completely disagree
I think you also have to take into account resonable, as what would a reasonable person do

A reasonable person would not wait 3O days to report her daughter missing (actually would have been longer, she was forced to report it )
A reasonable person would not then lie about basically everything
its not just random lies, its lies about where her daughter is, and who has her
A reasaonable person would not go partying while her daughter is missing
I can go on on and but you know what I am talking about, I personally would have no problem convicting her from what we already know and that doesn't include what LE has on her that we don't know