Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #2

[Wise Old Owl]

He probably moved her to the soft grass where she wouldnt be placed on a concrete surface.

IMO

But why move her at all? And if he was going to do CPR you are supposed to do it on a hard surface (not a "soft" surface underneath) - remember Micheal Jackson and the doctor doing CPR on the bed? He should have moved him to the floor. It is common knowledge to put the person on a hard surface?

But, ok - he moves her to the grass. Why? IF he was going to do CPR - then wouldn't you remove, or at least loosen up the noose around the neck?

That crime scene picture does not match up with someone cutting a suicide victim down from a hanging position. It just doesn't. He couldn't have cut her down while holding her (the body draped over his shoulder) - from the angles it would have been nearly impossible to drape her over his shoulder and then reach up to cut the rope. And if he had her draped over his shoulder and could cut the rope without reaching up - then she wouldn't have been hanging - KWIM? He could have stood on the table with her draped over his shoulder to cut the rope - but then once her full weight was on him ( and his shoulder) that would have caused that 3 legged table to go completely off balance and they both would have hit the ground and certainly not that far into the grass.

Cutting her down and moving her to the grass is a HUGE NO NO. He would have known that.

It ain't fittin', it ain't fittin, it just aint' fittin,

it ain't fittin'

 

[defense101]

i dunno. it is a possibility that this was a suicide but "something is just not right" as they say, lol. i hope whatever it is determined to be, there is more information given.

I agree, if the brother used the table to cut her down, then why is the length of cord laying on lawn, wouldn't it be still hanging from the balcony?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I agree, if the brother used the table to cut her down, then why is the length of cord laying on lawn, wouldn't it be still hanging from the balcony?

AH!!!! Good point. LONG piece of rope laying on the ground. That would tend to imply that she was "cut down" from the balcony - leaving most of the length of rope with the body. But, if she was cut from the balcony - then she would have fallen straight down to the walkway. Again, this picture does not fit the statements that we have been given. It just doesn't fit. We have not been given the complete low down.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I keep thinking about the painting that was removed from the house and the statement that there was alot of anger surrounding this death..just wish we had a few more details to go on. Am glad the investigators are taking their time..hopefully they are being very thorough.

The anger might not fit the suicide concept.. At midnight she spoke to sis and is ok..6 hours later..dead..alot of anger about something is involved..wheither it is Rebecca or someone else.

Nude body did make a BIG statement.. if Rebecca commited suicide(everything about me says NO WAY) the naked body is a slap to the ones that love her. If a murder.. then the naked body is a slap to those that love her. so either way naked body is a big statement. If she was guilt ridden about Maxie then she wouldnt want to slap JS again.

The anger may be because she felt left out. I am sure since only family members were allowed to see Maxie that Jonah told her it might not be a good idea to come to the hospital or he mentioned that his ex was very emotional at that time.

This link was posted yesterday.

Naked Suicides:

Quote:
Conventional wisdom has it that a woman found hanging naked is most likely a homicide or a staged suicide.5 It is thought that "feminine modesty" carries over into a suicidal death. Nonetheless, women do hang themselves or induce asphyxia by other means while naked.

Quote:
The disposition of clothing found at the site of a naked suicide attempt or completion can yield valuable clues to the individual's mental state. Clothes that are neatly arranged point to a planned suicide. Clothes strewn about raise the question of compulsivity or mental disorganization secondary to a severe psychiatric condition, substance abuse, or sexual homicide.

Quote:
Naked suicide can be associated with any method of suicide; however, anecdotal evidence indicates that it occurs more frequently with hanging, overdose, or drowning, but to a lesser extent in jumping deaths. With the exception of jumping, most naked suicides occur indoors.

Quote:
Naked suicide suggests a variety of psychological themes. The shedding of clothes may symbolize a new beginning, a rebirth and cleansing, or a sloughing off of the world. In the biblical description of Christ's resurrection, his clothes, a symbol of an unregenerate world, were left behind as he ascended into heaven.11

Anger and vengeance can be expressed by completing suicide while naked, especially when it is intended to traumatize a survivor. The shock of discovering a naked suicide inflicts an indelible, traumatic memory that can haunt a survivor for a lifetime.12 The person who completes suicide while naked may intend to add insult to a suicide survivor's already devastating injury.
http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240

 

[colette]

If she jumped from the table she was most likely not hanging too far from the ground. The brother could have cut her down and carried her to the grass. She doesn't look very heavy.

 

[angelwngs]

Quoted from this link at ABC News the female 911 caller stated that the child "had fallen from stairs" not 'down the stairs' which could indicate the child fell from a balcony onto the stairs or off a balcony to the floor below...at the bottom of the staircase. If the children were in the care of RN and he fell off the top of a bansiter railing or over a banister to the floor below. I can see how there could be extreme guilt for feeling she didn't watch a young chlid with enough care.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/spreckels-mansion-death-boy-max-schacknai-dies/story?id=14097880

The child "had fallen from stairs and was not breathing and did not have a pulse," Coronado Police Chief Louis Scanlon said last Thursday.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

If she jumped from the table she was most likely not hanging too far from the ground. The brother could have cut her down and carried her to the grass. She doesn't look very heavy.

Agreed. But that doesn't explain the length of the rope still attached to the body. If he held her around the waist and reached up as far as he could and cut the rope - there would have been rope left dangling from the balcony. I don't see any rope left hanging on the balcony and the length of the rope on the ground with the body seems to be the entire length (with possibly just the knot left tied to the iron work on the balcony).

 

[defense101]

If she jumped from the table she was most likely not hanging too far from the ground. The brother could have cut her down and carried her to the grass. She doesn't look very heavy.

Then as I said above why is the lenght of cord laying across the lawn and not hanging from the balcony?

 

[mrsu]

IIRC when the police got there, they said she was face down, no? I can't find the link now. If that's the case, then they were there when her body was moved, at least once.

IMO, if it's homicide, the brother definitely needs to be looked at closer. The first thing I thought of when I read the stories was, why would he cut her down? Yes, I guess he could have thought she was still alive, but it would also be a convenient excuse for why his fingerprints would be on that cord. Also, it's hard to know from the photos, but if he did cut her down...did he go thru the house and upstairs and cut her down/untie the cord from the balcony? I don't think he did...perhaps he pushed the table over, stood on that, and cut her down. If so, wouldn't there still be a piece of rope left hanging off the balcony? Again, hard to know if there was when police arrived. Would they take something like that down right away? I have a hard time believing they would if they would leave her body lay in the open for hours not to disturb the scene. The other thing I'm sill baffled by is the way her legs are bent. If she died while hanging, I don't see any reason for her legs to be in that bent position. When rigor set in, they would have been straight.

In studying the photos longer, I really think she was hogtied at some point. I know the police said she wasn't when they got there, but that doesn't mean she hadn't been. I googled some hogtied images, and her body definitely looks like it could have been in that position...and many of the images have a gag...perhaps what the blue scarf was used for?

Other questions I have are...where was Neil Nalepa (Rebecca's ex-husband) and is Dina Romano (JS ex-wife #2) remarried? Hence the Romano last name. If so, where was her husband?

 

[pferrin]

When police arrived she was face down in the grass..if he did start CPR..then that is a weird position. She does seem mighty far away from balcony.

Ok I've got to weigh in here. I've been following (although not in depth) and I've seen all the pictures.

Here's my thought - any and all comments would be appreciated.

Go back and look at the crime scene. Where she is on the ground with the table on the walkway.

IF he cut her down - she would have fallen STRAIGHT DOWN. Straight down would have put her on the walkway or perhaps even hitting the table on the way down.

How in the hello did she get into the grass? Did Adam move her to the grass and possibly start CPR - if so, then why didn't he remove the noose?

Unless there was a freak windstorm at the moment he cut her down there is no way she would have fallen at such an angle to end up in that grass. NO WAY! It doesn't fit.

Comments?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Agreed. But that doesn't explain the length of the rope still attached to the body. If he held her around the waist and reached up as far as he could and cut the rope - there would have been rope left dangling from the balcony. I don't see any rope left hanging on the balcony and the length of the rope on the ground with the body seems to be the entire length (with possibly just the knot left tied to the iron work on the balcony).

I think he unwound the rope that was attached to the balcony then held onto the rope and lowered her gently to the ground then rushed down and picked her up and put her in the soft grass area and unloosened the makeshift noose.

IMO

 

[Quester]

I agree, if the brother used the table to cut her down, then why is the length of cord laying on lawn, wouldn't it be still hanging from the balcony?

I believe the long cords we see in the photos on the ground are the wrist and ankle bindings along with whatever short bit of rope from the noose rope.

 

[time]

I just don't think Rebecca committed suicide. As the earlier expert quoted said - he hasn't seen anything like it in his 35 years and it would be extremely rare.

In the articles on suicide, I don't know if there is even one case where someone was naked, bound, hanged, and jumped. Or even naked, bound, hanged, outside.

Many of the asphyxia cases are sexual - they definitively said hers was not.

Many of the naked suicides are a consequence of how they committed suicide and where (bathtub).

And so on ... it is not as simple as relaying a bunch of quotes about suicide as I said before. You'd have to combine statistics to look at it one way and that would progressively make the probability very small that Rebecca committed suicide in this manner, given what we know about this case. As others are pointing out here ... there are possibly additional logistics making it even more improbable, nearly impossible, or impossible.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

When police arrived she was face down in the grass..if he did start CPR..then that is a weird position. She does seem mighty far away from balcony.

I have never heard them say she was face down. In the photos we have seen of her body she is face up.

Do you have a link to that article? Thanks

 

[JenniferTx]

I apologize if this is wrong to think or post....

I was very curious as to why they took out a rolled up rug. I know a number of people have commented about the body and rigor motis etc and said she may have passed away some time before she was found...

I am also puzzled about the ties on her legs and also what was used to tie up her wrists. Electrical cord is hard to use and tie(I hate to roll ours up when doing yard work)...but I can see it being used as the long rope her body was hung with. But what about the other bindings? What were they??

I wonder if someone tied her up in the room before she was hung. Hence the straps tied to her leg. And I wonder if she was dead before she was hung.

Here is the part I am not sure I should post. I had thought I had read that people can lose control of their bodily functions upon death, especially a violent death. That if she hung herself, then there would be a chance that there would be signs there in the courtyard that she lost control of her bodily functions...

But if she was killed prior to hanging (especially if someone choked her) then those forensics would be in the room that this happened. Like maybe on a rug...

Sorry.. I do not mean to be gross. I am just as puzzled as everyone else. Just when I think "murder" I also hear about other things (like blue scarf) that are a sign of grief etc....

I agree with you on the fact that she would have lost control of her bodily functions if she had hung herself. When I found my first husband after he hung himself he had lost control of his bodily functions. I don't think she killed herself. I think she was murdered and it was an attempt to make it look like a suicide.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I just don't think Rebecca committed suicide. As the earlier expert quoted said - he hasn't seen anything like it in his 35 years and it would be extremely rare.

In the articles on suicide, I don't know if there is even one case where someone was naked, bound, hanged, and jumped. Or even naked, bound, hanged, outside.

Many of the asphyxia cases are sexual - they definitively said hers was not.

Many of the naked suicides are a consequence of how they committed suicide and where (bathtub).

And so on ... it is not as simple as relaying a bunch of quotes about suicide as I said before. You'd have to combine statistics to look at it one way and that would progressively make the probability very small that Rebecca committed suicide in this manner, given what we know about this case. As others are pointing out here ... there are possibly additional logistics making it even more improbable, nearly impossible, or impossible.

The link has to do with suicide deaths only........not sexual.

IMO

 

[Seek&Find]

I don't think it was suicide. The only way I could see someone committing suicide by hanging while nude would be if they were drunk/on drugs. But if you're impaired in your own home and suicidal, would you really think of using electrical cords, or wouldn't you just go get a knife? As a woman, if I was thinking of committing suicide, and couldn't find enough rope, I'd never think to use an electrical cord to tie anything. For binding, I'd think a woman would think more of strings, shoestrings, zipties since LE uses them, things that are familiar. Many years ago, I did consider suicide, but I'd have never thought of this. Plus, if it was suicide due to remorse over Maxie falling in the house, I don't think she'd further contaminate the feelings about the house by committing suicide there and increasing the pain of the one she loved. Seems more like a method a hired killer would use. Especially being tied up. Guess we'll have to wait until forensics and toxicology are released, but it all seems very suspicious to me/highly unlikely to be suicide. All IMO

And even if it turns out she was impaired, I still think murder is more likely. Much like little Caylee's case where we questioned if it was an accident, why would someone make it look like a murder. If this was suicide, why make it look like murder? Re: the possible x-ing out on a pic, if that was done, it could've been done by the killer too.

 

[mrsu]

I think he unwound the rope that was attached to the balcony then held onto the rope and lowered her gently to the ground then rushed down and picked her up and put her in the soft grass area and unloosened the makeshift noose.

IMO

But he did say he "cut her down".

 

[oceanblueeyes]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. Suicide Statistics (2001)

Suicide Methods
Rate Per
Number 100,000 % of Total
Firearms..................16,869........5.9....... ..55.1
All Other Methods.........13,753........4.8.........49.9
Hanging or Suffocation.....6,198........2.2.........20.2 %
Poisoning..................5,191........1.8....... ..17.0
Falls........................651........0.2....... ...2.1
Cutting / Pieercing..........458........0.2..........1.5
Drowning.....................339........0.1....... ...1.1
Fire.........................147........0.1....... ...0.5


Hanging or suffocation is used in about one out of five suicides, which is why you can never leave an acutely suicidal person alone for a second. People who have died by hanging have used virtually every conceivable thing to hang themselves with, including shoe laces, electric cords, belts, bedsheets,etc. Again, never leave an acutely suicidal person alone.


http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...d=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

 

[mrsu]

I have never heard them say she was face down. In the photos we have seen of her body she is face up.

Do you have a link to that article? Thanks

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/201...h-authorities-seal-records-push-suicide-meme/

According to news reports Adam ‘cut down’ Rebecca’s body and called 911. The police arrived to find Rebecca’s nude body, ‘face down’, electrical cords used to bind her hands behind her back and her feet.