Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #5

[scorekeeper]

I thought that too at first. I showed them to my neighbor, who was previously in homicide for STL, then he was a detective going around the country collecting criminals on warrants and now he's a supervisor of a beat (his wife has colon cancer so he asked to go to beat work with steady hours & no travel.) His opinion is the pictures are in fact distinctly different with #4 being taken within an hour of the victim being found, and #5 being taken hours later. He relays that he's been on the scene of suspicious deaths were the body does in fact move due to RM setting in. Says it "freaks him out" when the body does stiffen & drop after a period of time. His opinion is "at face value, it's a homicide... however, I've seen some pretty wacked out suicides where we didn't think it was possible". So the mystery goes on... I have great respect for Frank. He pulled a TON of strings after the good Friday tornado here when I had a friend whose son was missing and the cops chalked him up to a runaway. Turns out he couldn't get home so he bunked with a friend and couldn't call mom due to cell phone & electrical outages.

I was sitting in the waiting room @ Firestone getting my tires rotated yesterday and CNN was on. They did a quick segment on the Mysterious Deaths in Coronado. The older gentleman sitting next to me turned out to be a retired Medical Examiner from Los Angeles. He said he has seen suicides as wacky and strange as that hanging. Not often, but it does happen sometimes. He is not sure and is on the fence, but he is not convinced it is a homicide. I asked about the strange way her legs were bent, like she was sitting down. He explained it to me, and I could not follow all of the medical terms, and he was mumbling, BUT apparently, by her being cut down in the middle of RM perhaps, the body can go through various cycles and seem to change position on their own, depending upon body memory. I do not fully understand but he did not seem to think it was that surprising that her knees were bent up that way while she was laid out on the lawn. He said that first being cut down and then being manipulated by the first responders would change everything from the initial death pose.

[ He also thinks they know everything there is to know about Celina Cass already but are stalling to get their legal ducks in a row.]

Stella5 and katydid23,

Thank you so much for the new and interesting information! What are the odds that 2 of you would gather info regarding RM and how it can do "bizarre" things to the body.

Boy, wish we knew what time those pictures were taken....was it sometime around 2 in the afternoon?

Since she worked out, could it be that her leg muscles tightened the most during RM?

Gonna' go do some research of RM.......unless someone knows the times/stages?????

score

 

[scorekeeper]

If a murderer moves a body before rigor mortis (RM), the new position will be "frozen" during RM, not the original one that would have characterized the pattern of the body falling at the crime scene. Therefore, the position a body shows during rigor mortis cannot be assumed as the position in which the victim was at the moment of death

http://www.enotes.com/forensic-science/time-death

BBM

So, RN could have been hanging......her body could have taken over the "form" from being carried????

This next site is very graphic (it does have pictures and not as scientific as the above but information) not for those faint at heart........WARNiNG

26 stages of death...

http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Death/Stages.html

 

[Soulmagent]

Stella5 and katydid23,

Thank you so much for the new and interesting information! What are the odds that 2 of you would gather info regarding RM and how it can do "bizarre" things to the body.

Boy, wish we knew what time those pictures were taken....was it sometime around 2 in the afternoon?

Since she worked out, could it be that her leg muscles tightened the most during RM?

Gonna' go do some research of RM.......unless someone knows the times/stages?????

score

Times and stages vary by hours but if temp are low RM takes longer.. Weight of the victim and age and muscle tone ..etc.. can have an impact . Add in that not all body's are exactly the same. The ME will be able to use all the information from the scene and pin it down.

Is it very interesting.



Anyway this link is helpful

http://www.dplylemd.com/Articles/timelydeath.html


The stuff you might know already.

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/biochemistry/a/aa061903a.htm

This is a good read.
http://www.somerset.k12.md.us/JMT/postmortem_changes.htm

 

[defense101]

I found this interesting...from wickipedia

Postmortem spasm (synonyms: instantaneous rigor, instantaneous rigidity, cataleptic rigidity) is a form of muscular stiffening which occurs at the moment of death and which persists into the period of rigor mortis. Its cause is unknown but it is usually associated with violent deaths in circumstances of intense emotion. It has medico-legal importance because it records the last act of life. Postmortem spasm may affect all the muscles of the body but it most commonly involves groups of muscles only, such as the muscles of the forearms and hands. Should an object be held in the hand, then postmortem spasm should only be diagnosed if the object is firmly held and considerable force is required to break the grip. Postmortem spasm involving all the muscles of the body is exceedingly rare and most often described in battle situations.

 

[Soulmagent]

I found this interesting...from wickipedia

Postmortem spasm (synonyms: instantaneous rigor, instantaneous rigidity, cataleptic rigidity) is a form of muscular stiffening which occurs at the moment of death and which persists into the period of rigor mortis. Its cause is unknown but it is usually associated with violent deaths in circumstances of intense emotion. It has medico-legal importance because it records the last act of life. Postmortem spasm may affect all the muscles of the body but it most commonly involves groups of muscles only, such as the muscles of the forearms and hands. Should an object be held in the hand, then postmortem spasm should only be diagnosed if the object is firmly held and considerable force is required to break the grip. Postmortem spasm involving all the muscles of the body is exceedingly rare and most often described in battle situations.

Cadaveric Spasm

This is a rare form of muscular stiffening which occurs at the time of death. Mostly effects the arms, and something else important about it I cant remember but it happens in more deaths then just violent deaths.

Or maybe tramatic deaths would explain it better....Good find but wikki is a bit misleading.

 

[jjenny]

RM could cause the legs to draw up as the muscles contract , her feet would not have to be touching the ground for that to happen based on what I know about RM. So if she was cut down after RM her legs might appear bent due to that.

I am no expert. Based on what I have learned ,read and studied for no other reason except wanting to know what happens, things could lead to more of a contraction or less of a contraction in certain muscles and in certain conditions and tempetures, including what type of activity or which muscles groups might have been used shorty before death. Those impacted muscles could or may contract more then other muscles groups. Lot of variables. If the picture was not blurred ,looking for a the signs of pooled blood in the body under the skin would help know where she was and how she was positioned (if hanging or laid on the ground ) before RM set in. So if somebody has those images we cant post them here but looking for the purple or pinker or "off" from other parts of her body might help figure out if she was ever hanging. Then maybe whoever could draw a chart shading those area's in.

Body temp ,outside temp physical activity , affects muscles or rather they way RM happens in them.

I was reading the book on homicidal and suicidal hangings and the book had some drawings. The ones with feet close to the ground had their legs bent in a similar way to RN's. Maybe there are other ways in which her legs would end up bent like that, but if she were close to the ground with feet touching the ground her legs would end up bent like that.

 

[Fairy1]

Wow. I was on Coronado Island earlier this week and probably drove right by this home. It's such a perfectly beautiful area. So hard to believe anything bad could happen there.

Hoping for real answers soon....

 

[Pach]

This thread has become so long that some of my thoughts below ,Im sure have been posted before:

1.) was the cord used to tie up Rebecca confirmed for sure to be one of those orange electrical extension cords ? if so, I have to tell you that those cords are very hard to tie up or untangle. I know this because I use it every 2 weeks to power up my electric lawnmower. to get the experience , just go to home depot and try tying up this orange cords lol, you'll see what I mean. My point is that , why the heck would someone use this cord when they can use manila hemp or even nylon rope. To top it all tying your hands behind your back with electrical cord ? unless your a Houdini.

2.) someone mentioned in one of the posts if im not mistaken that marine rope was used. Well, the question is this - is there a jetski or boat in this house ? if not, I can't think of reason why someone would have marine rope stored in the house. the usual landlubber would only buy the usual household rope available from home depot or Lowes. Only thing I can think of is that the A.S.(the brother) works on a tugboat and......in any case, if my memory is faulty, I still wonder what kind of rope it is- marine rope or just the electrical cord. and of course, what is the background of A.S. ? does he have any police records ?

3.)That out-of-state(memphis?) newspaper quote that Adam said he was going back to work and yet he ended up in san diego. the discrepancy is obvious so , this should be double-checked by authorities- timeline, etc.

4.) if this was a murder/homicide), there was very little time to plan it. the less time to plan, the more chances of messing-up and leaving evidence or of the murder scene looking bizarre(which it is)

5.) Assuming it was a murder, since it happened just a few days after the little boy's accident, then, the strongest motive or fuel for killing Rebecca is anger. A spur of the moment violent act with little planning had got to be fueled by something with strong emotions boiling. Since J.S. loves Rebecca, and since his ex-wife might have this built-in negative emotions towards Rebecca, who between the 2 would have greater negative emotions piling up and boiling over ? but then, who knows....

6.) I am curious about the incidents and police visits to the nearby house of J.S.'s Ex-wife... why all these incidents ? any anger issues at that house? who was angry there, if ever ? how about the backgrounds of the father, brothers and cousins of J.S.'s ex ? Any police records of the people involved in those incidents?

7.) Considering Rebecca's reported sunny, positive personality, I believe, for her to reach the point of being suicidal would take a minimum of several weeks or months. If my memory is right, she died while the boy was still in coma so why the heck would she kill herself so soon(if she was one of those gloomy easily-depressed types) when the boy is not dead yet ? A check on Rebecca's mental/psychiatric profile would reveal if suicide was possible so soon(assuming she ever visited a psychiatrist in her life).

8.) Im bothered with the language used by A.S. when talking to the 911 operator. why does he not use the more direct to the point words , "hey my sister in law is hanging, and looks dead" ....... if my memory is correct, why did he use a detached 3rd person point of view to describe the situation ? what was his tone ? was he frantic ? or no emotion? heck , if I see someone hanging on my property, I would be yelling at the 911 operator and rousing up the neighbors. . what did he say to the paramedics? and what did he say to the police. his accounts to the police, paramedics and 911 operator should be compared for inconsistencies. Similarly, the accounts/statements of J.S. and his ex-wife should be compared to each other.

9.) since Rebecca was naked, authorities should check her genitals on the possibility there was semen or if there were genital abuse/lacerations(just in case)..

10.) Rebecca's body overall should be checked for signs of struggle- bruises, cuts, bumps, etc.

11.) A.S., J.S. and the ex-wife's bodies should be checked for any bruises, bumps, scratches, etc. just in case any of them were involved in a frantic struggle with Rebecca.

12.) hopefully the authorities went through the house with a fine comb gathering enough evidence....

13.) did police stop to check on the reported noise/party during the night Rebecca died ? if the police checked. who met or talked to them at the mansion door ??? what did the person say to the police ? aha !

14.) Surely, A.S. should have a statement or his thoughts on the reason for the noise on the night of rebecca's death since he lived in the guesthouse, right ? if he had a night-out, can someone corroborate his story that he went out? what was his timeline during that night?

I hope the cause of Rebecca's death will be found.

 

[Money Girl]

Wow. I was on Coronado Island earlier this week and probably drove right by this home. It's such a perfectly beautiful area. So hard to believe anything bad could happen there.

Hoping for real answers soon....

Bad things happen everywhere, but Rebecca's murder (and I am convinced it is a murder) has just saddened me to the core.

 

[Soulmagent]

Bad things happen everywhere, but Rebecca's murder (and I am convinced it is a murder) has just saddened me to the core.

I just cant decide. I see a motive for murder and a motive for suicide.

My husband was asked by our son who is six , if he would miss him if he died and my husband told him he would want to die too.

I get mad when I think about Max dying. So that makes me think murder, but my husband saying he would want to die to made me wonder if Rebecca felt that way too. Even if he wasnt her son and she raised him or couldnt feel at fault forever. If I thought I caused my sons / stepsons death I would feel like jumping off something with a rope on my neck.

If I knew I didnt or did do something I should have or shouldnt have , well I wouldnt be able to live with myself. My 6 year old is my world.

 

[katydid23]

I just cant decide. I see a motive for murder and a motive for suicide.

My husband was asked by our son who is six , if he would miss him if he died and my husband told him he would want to die too.

I get mad when I think about Max dying. So that makes me think murder, but my husband saying he would want to die to made me wonder if Rebecca felt that way too. Even if he wasnt her son and she raised him or couldnt feel at fault forever. If I thought I caused my sons / stepsons death I would feel like jumping off something with a rope on my neck.

If I knew I didnt or did do something I should have or shouldnt have , well I wouldnt be able to live with myself. My 6 year old is my world.

When my son was 4 I went and picked him up from a wild birthday party at a kids gym. They had trampolines and gym mats and they also had cake and candy. He was wired, and very tired at the same time. His friend was with us because his mom was coming to pick him up at our house. So I should have realized it was a disaster waiting to happen. Two tired kids, wired on sugar, hyped up from the trampoline experience.

I sat them on the couch with a video, thinking they would chill out. I went to the kitchen to get some real food for them, hoping to absorb some of their sugar. While I was gone, my genius son forgot he was no longer on a trampoline, in the gym. And he jumped up and down on the couch, and tried to do, I don't even know what, but ended up FACE FIRST, SPLAT, on our glass coffee table. He broke his nose and his arm, I had to call 911. It was one of the scariest, most traumatic things any of us had experienced. There was so much blood from his nose, and he screamed so hard because his arm hurt so bad.

After we got home from the ER that night, and I knew everything was essentially going to be alright, I was still devastated. I felt SOOOOO guilty. I should have realized they were too amped up, sugared up, excited, to just sit and watch a tape. I felt so bad. And I was so lucky he fell the way he did. If he hit his temple or the back of his head instead, he could have died. I thought about it that night and KNEW I would have killed myself if that had happened. So my point is that I can easily see how RN COULD want to kill herself if the accident was her fault, at least IN HER MIND.

But I can also see how angry DS could have been after watching her son declared brain dead.

 

[MizStery]

This thread has become so long that some of my thoughts below ,Im sure have been posted before:
-snip

Thanks for your post to the RN sucide or murder sleuthing thread. Welcome to the board. :woohoo:

 

[CuriousAmazon]

:Welcome1: PACH :rollercoaster:

 

[Theforeigner]

This thread has become so long that some of my thoughts below ,Im sure have been posted before:

1.) was the cord used to tie up Rebecca confirmed for sure to be one of those orange electrical extension cords ? if so, I have to tell you that those cords are very hard to tie up or untangle. I know this because I use it every 2 weeks to power up my electric lawnmower. to get the experience , just go to home depot and try tying up this orange cords lol, you'll see what I mean. My point is that , why the heck would someone use this cord when they can use manila hemp or even nylon rope. To top it all tying your hands behind your back with electrical cord ? unless your a Houdini.

2.) someone mentioned in one of the posts if im not mistaken that marine rope was used. Well, the question is this - is there a jetski or boat in this house ? if not, I can't think of reason why someone would have marine rope stored in the house. the usual landlubber would only buy the usual household rope available from home depot or Lowes. Only thing I can think of is that the A.S.(the brother) works on a tugboat and......in any case, if my memory is faulty, I still wonder what kind of rope it is- marine rope or just the electrical cord. and of course, what is the background of A.S. ? does he have any police records ?

3.)That out-of-state(memphis?) newspaper quote that Adam said he was going back to work and yet he ended up in san diego. the discrepancy is obvious so , this should be double-checked by authorities- timeline, etc.

4.) if this was a murder/homicide), there was very little time to plan it. the less time to plan, the more chances of messing-up and leaving evidence or of the murder scene looking bizarre(which it is)

5.) Assuming it was a murder, since it happened just a few days after the little boy's accident, then, the strongest motive or fuel for killing Rebecca is anger. A spur of the moment violent act with little planning had got to be fueled by something with strong emotions boiling. Since J.S. loves Rebecca, and since his ex-wife might have this built-in negative emotions towards Rebecca, who between the 2 would have greater negative emotions piling up and boiling over ? but then, who knows....

6.) I am curious about the incidents and police visits to the nearby house of J.S.'s Ex-wife... why all these incidents ? any anger issues at that house? who was angry there, if ever ? how about the backgrounds of the father, brothers and cousins of J.S.'s ex ? Any police records of the people involved in those incidents?

7.) Considering Rebecca's reported sunny, positive personality, I believe, for her to reach the point of being suicidal would take a minimum of several weeks or months. If my memory is right, she died while the boy was still in coma so why the heck would she kill herself so soon(if she was one of those gloomy easily-depressed types) when the boy is not dead yet ? A check on Rebecca's mental/psychiatric profile would reveal if suicide was possible so soon(assuming she ever visited a psychiatrist in her life).

8.) Im bothered with the language used by A.S. when talking to the 911 operator. why does he not use the more direct to the point words , "hey my sister in law is hanging, and looks dead" ....... if my memory is correct, why did he use a detached 3rd person point of view to describe the situation ? what was his tone ? was he frantic ? or no emotion? heck , if I see someone hanging on my property, I would be yelling at the 911 operator and rousing up the neighbors. . what did he say to the paramedics? and what did he say to the police. his accounts to the police, paramedics and 911 operator should be compared for inconsistencies. Similarly, the accounts/statements of J.S. and his ex-wife should be compared to each other.

9.) since Rebecca was naked, authorities should check her genitals on the possibility there was semen or if there were genital abuse/lacerations(just in case)..

10.) Rebecca's body overall should be checked for signs of struggle- bruises, cuts, bumps, etc.

11.) A.S., J.S. and the ex-wife's bodies should be checked for any bruises, bumps, scratches, etc. just in case any of them were involved in a frantic struggle with Rebecca.

12.) hopefully the authorities went through the house with a fine comb gathering enough evidence....

13.) did police stop to check on the reported noise/party during the night Rebecca died ? if the police checked. who met or talked to them at the mansion door ??? what did the person say to the police ? aha !

14.) Surely, A.S. should have a statement or his thoughts on the reason for the noise on the night of rebecca's death since he lived in the guesthouse, right ? if he had a night-out, can someone corroborate his story that he went out? what was his timeline during that night?

I hope the cause of Rebecca's death will be found.

Welcome to the forum

Thanks for sharing your well thought out post.
I´m pretty sure that the police will cover most of it.
I think the orange cord info was very interesting!

Concerning suspects; I still belive Rebecca's x-husband Neil Joseph Nalepa should be looked into thoroughly (you can search his name on this website, there are some posts about him and his relation to Rebecca, as well as some theories and questions)

But here is a short summary:

Neil Nalepa works as a nursing assistant. (But in 2007 he worked in Construction, not sure how/why he made that change?)

2003 Rebecca and Neil married
Lived on Long Island and Arizona, possibly California also.

2011 Feb Their divorce was not final until Feb 2011
2011 may 3 months after the divorce Rebecca changed her sure name from Nalepa back to her maiden name Zahau.
2011 July Rebecca’s ex-husband, Neil Nalepa, said they spoke to her this week and said that she was completely content and carefree

July 11: Max accident

July 13 Rebecca death

July 14 : Neil Nalepa, also of Scottsdale, said he had learned about Rebecca's death Thursday (the day after her death) morning and was in shock.
"This is all overwhelming," he said. "I'm just trying to wrap my head around it."
Alleged Neil have also said, at the time of her death, that he had spoken to her a week earlier about a joint credit card. He also said she had changed, wanting a life of luxury.

July 17: Max died

Aug 6: Neil Nalepa, who works as a nursing assistant, told The Republic that he is still having trouble dealing with his ex-wife's death, and he declined comment this week. hmmm...

Questions I have:


Were was NN July 13, 2011?

What was her reason to change her name from Nalepa back to her maiden name?
Could the reason be that ´there was somthing about NN that made her feel bad bearing his name?

What ended their relationship?
What was their brake up like ?
How was the divorce?
How was their relationship after the divorce?

 

[StJohn]

For anyone interested in listening to the Medicis conference call/webcast, here is a link along with directions. Call starts @ 5:15pm EST and according to a link posted earlier, it is expected that Jonah Shacknai will lead the call. It will be interesting to see what, if any, comment he will make regarding the deaths of MS & RN. If you miss the call @ 5:15,the webcast will stay posted on the Medicis web site for 10 days.

http://www.globenewswire.com/newsarchive/mrx/pages/news_releases.html?d=228548

 

[scorekeeper]

Pach,

:fireworks2: :greetings: :welcome:


Welcome to WS; as you read through previous threads, you will see we have many of the same questions. The information we have received from LE has been very little since all autopsies and 911 calls have been sealed.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/...mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?redirected=true

The video of the press conference is on the above link, plus other reports.

The latest word we got last week was a teaser that information would be released in a couple of weeks. LE still gather data from forensics and tox reports.

so we are all

:waiting:

 

[Morag]

In the absence of new news, I continue to wonder about the abrupt departure of GS from Coronado. According to her friend, she was out of the house before emergency services arrived. IMO, this is virtually impossible, considering the size of Coronado. And, pferrin has patiently listened to the police calls for that morning, and we now know that two females were transported to Sharp Coronado Hospital, where JS was already waiting.

After some period of time little Max was transferred to the other hospital, accompanied by his father, and the "two females" went back to the mansion.
What was the discussion among the three people at Sharp? Was RN told to get GS to the airport ASAP? One story 'somewhere' mentioned that she didn't travel until Tuesday, but no matter.

The (apparent) fact is that this young person was put on a plane immediately after a traumatic experience, and she would have been alone for 7-10 hours as she traveled. Somehow, this seems wrong- surely her mother could have been sent for to provide comfort and companionship as she traveled. Why-if she was- was she sent away so rapidly? Her mother could have gotten to her in about the same amount of time as it took for the cross-country trip.

 

[Evan's Mom]

I just cant decide. I see a motive for murder and a motive for suicide.

My husband was asked by our son who is six , if he would miss him if he died and my husband told him he would want to die too.

I get mad when I think about Max dying. So that makes me think murder, but my husband saying he would want to die to made me wonder if Rebecca felt that way too. Even if he wasnt her son and she raised him or couldnt feel at fault forever. If I thought I caused my sons / stepsons death I would feel like jumping off something with a rope on my neck.

If I knew I didnt or did do something I should have or shouldnt have , well I wouldnt be able to live with myself. My 6 year old is my world.

I feel certain this was a suicide. None of the known evidence has led me to any kind of murder scenario.

 

[defense101]

Welcome to the forum

Thanks for sharing your well thought out post.
I´m pretty sure that the police will cover most of it.
I think the orange cord info was very interesting!

Concerning suspects; I still belive Rebecca's x-husband Neil Joseph Nalepa should be looked into thoroughly (you can search his name on this website, there are some posts about him and his relation to Rebecca, as well as some theories and questions)

But here is a short summary:

Neil Nalepa works as a nursing assistant. (But in 2007 he worked in Construction, not sure how/why he made that change?)

2003 Rebecca and Neil married
Lived on Long Island and Arizona, possibly California also.

2011 Feb Their divorce was not final until Feb 2011
2011 may 3 months after the divorce Rebecca changed her sure name from Nalepa back to her maiden name Zahau.
2011 July Rebecca’s ex-husband, Neil Nalepa, said they spoke to her this week and said that she was completely content and carefree

July 11: Max accident

July 13 Rebecca death

July 14 : Neil Nalepa, also of Scottsdale, said he had learned about Rebecca's death Thursday (the day after her death) morning and was in shock.
"This is all overwhelming," he said. "I'm just trying to wrap my head around it."
Alleged Neil have also said, at the time of her death, that he had spoken to her a week earlier about a joint credit card. He also said she had changed, wanting a life of luxury.

July 17: Max died

Aug 6: Neil Nalepa, who works as a nursing assistant, told The Republic that he is still having trouble dealing with his ex-wife's death, and he declined comment this week. hmmm...

Questions I have:


Were was NN July 13, 2011?

What was her reason to change her name from Nalepa back to her maiden name?
Could the reason be that ´there was somthing about NN that made her feel bad bearing his name?

What ended their relationship?
What was their brake up like ?
How was the divorce?
How was their relationship after the divorce?

Phoenix is an easy drive to san diego, we do it every year about 360 mi, we do it in 4 1/2 hours, so I think NN is still a possibility if this will be found to be a murder (I don't subscribe to the suicide theory imo).

 

[scorekeeper]

I feel certain this was a suicide. None of the known evidence has led me to any kind of murder scenario.

Do you think RN jumped or flung herself over the balcony?

Or do you think she used the table?

I am leaning toward homicide, but I would love to here your reasons for a suicide.

Do you think she was so full of guilt over Maxie's accident? Do you think JS asked her to leave?

Thanks so much for your insight!!