Rebecca Zahau Wrongful Death/ADAM SHACKNAI FOUND RESPONSIBLE #5

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What is unique about those dolls is how life-like they are and how fully pose-able they are. Which is perfect for demonstrative purposes in a courtroom situation. Since the positioning of Rebecca's body was important in terms of how she was bound, gagged and hog-tied and how she was found while hanging (Adam's account was definitely under scrutiny), it was an extremely effective visual aid for the jury.

That it was commissioned by a company which creates lifelike sex dolls for personal private use is irrelevant to the case.
 
I think the murdered mannequin was an excellent idea. $$$$$ well spent!!!
 
Now to the SEX DOLL. It's big business. Thank goodness.

Greer was able to utilize a LIFELIKE image of Rebecca showing how she was bound, gagged, tied up and "hung".

He was demonstrating how Rebecca was tortured and bound up. And murdered.

I prefer calling it what it was. A murdered doll.

Webb made a HUGE error calling it a sex doll. If he thinks the majority of the public and the appellant judges aren't gonna see through this, he's more desperate than I thought. He let his anger at losing be exposed.
BBM

Yes, a huge Freudian slip error IMO! Rebecca has been demeaned by everyone who insists she committed suicide, even by this well-respected attorney. There was absolutely no reason to refer to a realistic mannequin this way just because of the manufacturer, other than anger and sleaze. As I mentioned when discussing Webb’s press release earlier, equating this mannequin of Rebecca with a sex doll is indicative IMO of how Adam viewed her and used her.
JMO, MOO, etc
 
What is unique about those dolls is how life-like they are and how fully pose-able they are. Which is perfect for demonstrative purposes in a courtroom situation. Since the positioning of Rebecca's body was important in terms of how she was bound, gagged and hog-tied and how she was found while hanging (Adam's account was definitely under scrutiny), it was an extremely effective visual aid for the jury.

That it was commissioned by a company which creates lifelike sex dolls for personal private use is irrelevant to the case.

^^^ Exactly. I think it was genius of Greer to do this.

Webb lost this case. He threw a hissy fit. Says much about his ego imo. I actually :lol:
 
Guys, re the doll / mannequin...

The argument about the use of a doll as a demonstrative being argued as good cause for an appeal.

I’ve been doing some research and here’s a snippet from an appellant courts judgement about the use of a mannequin as a demonstrative tool for the jury. I feel this illustrates my point that this is not the case.

“...Exhibit No. 4 ( a lifelike mannequin showing the stab wounds on the victim) admittedly was an accurate portrayal of the number and location of the stab wounds.

If the showing of their location and number tends to be inflammatory it is because any accurate portrayal, whether presented by oral testimony, or by a photograph, or as in this case by use of a paper maché mannequin, would be inflammatory.

Notwithstanding its possible inflammatory nature, the exhibit met every test of probativeness. The exhibit visually demonstrated the nature and location of various wounds inflicted. State v. Jones, 515 S.W.2d 504, 506 (Mo.1974); State v. Wallace, 504 S.W.2d 67, 72 (Mo.1973); State v. Whiteaker, 499 S.W.2d 412, 418 (Mo.1973). It also enabled the jury to better understand the facts elicited from the witnesses, State v. Crow, 486 S.W.2d 248, 256 (Mo. 1972); State v. Perkins, 382 S.W.2d 701, 704 (Mo.1964), and it corroborated the testimony of the State's witnesses. State v. Wallace, supra at p. 72, and State v. Jackson, 499 S.W.2d 467 (Mo.1973).

In addition Exhibit 4 constituted demonstrative evidence which, if the jury determined that appellant perpetrated the homicide, would aid the jury in determining the intent with which the homicide was committed, and for that reason the jury was in a better position to determine whether appellant should be found guilty of capital murder, second degree murder, or manslaughter, all of which were the subject of an instruction to the jury.

The cases cited are listed within the quote for reference

Hope this is useful...




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This is an excellent post, thank you so very much !!!
 
I have never claimed to be an insider. Here, for the third time, is the link which quotes Bremner's email.

https://radaronline.com/exclusives/...a-attorney-general-independent-investigation/

“I will be respectfully submitting to you a formal and detailed response to Mr. Shacknai’s letter (which was not copied to me nor to my clients),” Bremner wrote.

I saw this link the first time. First, there is no evidence I’m aware of that an email couldn’t constitute a formal request (I work in a field where we must make formal requests & sometimes that is in the form of a letter, whereas other times it is allowable in the form of an email). In fact, the first sentence of the article you link to says "The anguished family of Rebecca Zahau has formally asked the California Attorney General to launch a full and independent investigation of the woman’s mysterious hanging, RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned." Perhaps the email was the formal request for the independent investigation, and the letter Bremner later sent was a "response to Mr. Shacknai's letter," as the article states.

Assuming, for the moment, you are correct that an email does not constitute a formal request, linking to a reference about the email is not evidence there was no follow up letter.

I asked if you were an insider because you seem to think that if there were further communications between Bemner and the AG you would have personal knowledge of it. You also suggest that unless you have personal knowledge of such communication, it did not happen. That sounds like someone who has an inside line with the AG. Otherwise, not sure why you think you'd be immediately informed.

Finally, you must have missed the Town & Country article link, posted earlier, which references an 18 page letter Bremner sent: https://www.townandcountrymag.com/s...6/shaknai-deaths-mystery-coronado-california/ It states: "In January 2012, Bremner’s legal team sent an 18-page letter to deputy attorney general Julie Garland of the California Department of Justice, asking that Rebecca’s case be reopened, citing the panel of experts. (Jonah had also written to the DA’s office asking that it consider reopening the case.) Their request was promptly rejected."

<modsnip>. JMO
 
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Now the reporter has a twisted mind? Has Greer publicly denied it? Has he denied spending $8,000? If he has, I haven't seen it.

Not sure what cost has to do with it & why Greer would need to deny the cost of a completely lifelike mannequin made to order. I think we all would assume that's not cheap. So...???
 
Regarding the mannequin (aka "sex doll") used as a demonstrative aid in court, I'd like to point out that using a cost effective Resusi Anne (with no arms or legs) "could" have been used....by Mr. Webb.......to demonstrate exactly "how" it is that Mr. Adam Shacknai cut down the hanging and bound victim, while standing on a 3 legged table, and attempting to administer CPR while on the phone with 911.

Except it would have been pretty hard for Mr. Webb to re-construct a demonstration of Adam Shacknai performing CPR on a mannequin with NO arms, since the actual arms of the actual victim were unquestionably bound up in a red ski rope and nautical knots. And the ankles, too.

So, Mr. Greer chose to research the options to demonstrate the position of the body, with arms and legs, bound and hanging. And the standard cheap Resusci Anne(without arms and legs) would not have been a very effective demonstrative aid, no? The victim had arms and legs, both bound.

BUT-- Mr. Greer (Or Mr. Webb) could have spent thenecessary $$ for an ADVANCED version of Resusci Anne WITH arms (and legs!) costing an average of $7100-8500.

https://www.schoolhealth.com/resusc...0jQrIQUlzo2o4MSGbTFYAVx5DxoEt5bYaAjauEALw_wcB

So, the custom built court demonstrative aid, quoted at $8000, is unquestionably well within the ACTUAL cost of a far inferior product for this particular demonstration, IMO.

I hope that if it comes to that in appeals, Mr. Greer will bring up that salient point.

The mannequin was a highly effective demonstrative aid in court, and not at all, IMO, over priced for what it had-- arms AND legs. Just like the victim.
 
So Greer used a company that makes sex dolls to create the mannequin of Rebecca that was shown in court.

That doesn't mean he was creating a sex doll of Rebecca; it means he thought this company was the most qualified to create a replica of Rebecca's body.

I guess I just don't understand the sex doll shock and awe. Even if the company who made the mannequin claims as its specialty realistic sex dolls--and I am not claiming it is, because I haven't researched it--creating a likeness to satisfy anyone's sexual desires was clearly not Greer's intent.

Just my guess but I think the shock and awe is because the Judge required the Plaintiff to keep the doll covered totally with only hands and ankles displayed when used for demonstrative purposes during trial. It was not entered as an exhibit and then the Plaintiff exposed it's life-like nudity for 'shock and awe' during closing arguments in what appeared to be an attempt at re-creation. I know closing arguments can't be considered as evidence by the jury. It's possible the closing arguments of attorneys are covered under completely separate "rules" of the court. We will have to see how it comes out on appeal.
 
Not sure what cost has to do with it & why Greer would need to deny the cost of a completely lifelike mannequin made to order. I think we all would assume that's not cheap. So...???

Frankly, I admire Greer more because he had the mannequin made. It&#8217;s a perfect and detailed visual aid, so that the jury could see what was and wasn&#8217;t involved in cutting Rebecca down. Having the lifelike mannequin made is only being questioned and demeaned by the defense because it didn&#8217;t help their case at all. High-powered Webb must really be upset to be outsmarted by a low-key San Diego attorney.
 
Not sure what cost has to do with it & why Greer would need to deny the cost of a completely lifelike mannequin made to order. I think we all would assume that's not cheap. So...???

A life-like mannequin wasn't needed during the trial when the knot-tying expert was on the stand displaying the knot-tying which he proclaimed were simple and a gorilla, spider or anybody could copy. (I paraphrase.) I can't answer why the Plaintiff decided $8,000 was needed just for closing arguments which can't be considered evidence. Perhaps an explanation will be provided after appeals are filed.
 
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/s...6/shaknai-deaths-mystery-coronado-california/

In January 2012, Bremner’s legal team sent an 18-page letter to deputy attorney general Julie Garland of the California Department of Justice, asking that Rebecca’s case be reopened, citing the panel of experts. ~snip~ Their request was promptly rejected.

Yes, but that is based just on Bremner's word and attorneys can lie. Apparently she chose not to share the letter or the response with the media and I find that odd because she shared her email to the AG with Radaronline and they quoted from it.
 
I think it would have been a very effective presentation for Mr. Webb to have used a demonstrative aid, such as a mannequin, to demonstrate how Adam Shacknai cut down a hanging victim, who was bound hand and feet, and gagged, using a kitchen knife, while standing on a 3 legged table, and using a cell phone.

I think the jury would have really been interested in seeing exactly how Adam Shacknai did each of those tasks.

Mr. Webb chose not to use any demonstrative aids related to the hanging. Mr. Greer did. They each had the opportunity to present their case in court, with consent of the judge, the way they wanted to present it, for the benefit of their clients.

I personally don't feel bad at all for Mr. Webb, or for AS-- he had a highly professional, extremely expensive defense team of 9 attorneys, plus numerous " assistant minions". He had more than "adequate" representation.
 
A life-like mannequin wasn't needed during the trial when the knot-tying expert was on the stand displaying the knot-tying which he proclaimed were simple and a gorilla, spider or anybody could copy. (I paraphrase.) I can't answer why the Plaintiff decided $8,000 was needed just for closing arguments which can't be considered evidence. Perhaps an explanation will be provided after appeals are filed.

Actually, it was to the contrary, the mannequin was used to demonstrate the knot tying in court, early on, during the experts testimony.

It was also used very effectively to demonstrate the hog tying hypothesis - by exemplifying the &#8216;perfect fit&#8217; of the rope length between the wrist and ankles of RZ.


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I think it would have been a very effective presentation for Mr. Webb to have used a demonstrative aid, such as a mannequin, to demonstrate how Adam Shacknai cut down a hanging victim, who was bound hand and feet, and gagged, using a kitchen knife, while standing on a 3 legged table, and using a cell phone.

I think the jury would have really been interested in seeing exactly how Adam Shacknai did each of those tasks.

Mr. Webb chose not to use any demonstrative aids related to the hanging. Mr. Greer did. They each had the opportunity to present their case in court, with consent of the judge, the way they wanted to present it, for the benefit of their clients.

I personally don't feel bad at all for Mr. Webb, or for AS-- he had a highly professional, extremely expensive defense team of 9 attorneys, plus numerous " assistant minions". He had more than "adequate" representation.

Well said, K_Z. Greer's demonstrative actually did serve to demonstrate testimony brought in at trial, such as the rope length testimony that Lezah (I think, or one of our "court watchers") said was confusing. It really helped jury to visualize how far the body was hanging from the ground, in addition to the scene that was in front of Adam when 911 call was made ("Got a girl, hung herself, in the guesthouse" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyGs0d2d-ck&feature=youtu.be). So, it was well within the law & served a definitive purpose. And, agree, Webb could have used a demonstrative as well, but chose not to.
 
Well said, K_Z. Greer's demonstrative actually did serve to demonstrate testimony brought in at trial, such as the rope length testimony that Lezah (I think, or one of our "court watchers") said was confusing. It really helped jury to visualize how far the body was hanging from the ground, in addition to the scene that was in front of Adam when 911 call was made ("Got a girl, hung herself, in the guesthouse" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyGs0d2d-ck&feature=youtu.be). So, it was well within the law & served a definitive purpose. And, agree, Webb could have used a demonstrative as well, but chose not to.

I agree. K_Z nailed it.
 
I am picturing the team of 9 attorneys doing a post mortem wrap up of the case and coming to the conclusion that a Powerpoint for a wrongful death defense wasn&#8217;t a very peachy idea.
 
I am picturing the team of 9 attorneys doing a post mortem wrap up of the case and coming to the conclusion that a Powerpoint for a wrongful death defense wasn&#8217;t a very peachy idea.
BBM

:silly:

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall during that meeting and watch the blame game unfold.
 
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