Are the defense hounding the jurors? I have no doubt they are.
[FONT=&]Very emotional moment. Next step City Hall and getting the investigation reopened so "suicide" can be stricken from Rebecca's death certificate. [/FONT]#rebeccazahau#zahau#sheriffgore#truecrime
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I wonder how they know it is rope burn, and not an abrasion of unknown origin.There was an injury to RZs upper / rear left shoulder that was described as a vertical rope burn that came out in Cyril Wechts testimony.
Cynic kindly posted an image of it previously from the court filings.
I was wondering if we could revisit it, and if anyone had a theory on how the injury may have occurred?
I also recall it was not mentioned on the autopsy report, which arguably could make it new evidence ( at least to the police investigation)
Any thoughts or ideas on how it happened?
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I wonder how they know it is rope burn, and not an abrasion of unknown origin.
I say this because they could be restricting their opinion to materials found with or on the body, particularly Dr Lucas with his suicide theory and not factoring in any kind of prior struggle.
I still wonder about the plastic bag being put over Rebecca's head. Was it tied around, did Rebecca struggle to get it off before her hands were bound, was it a 'game' by which I mean Adam was taunting her, alternately suffocating and releasing her? Hog-tying and penetrating her with a knife handle would suggest he was subjecting her to his fantasies. Was it so that she couldn't see him even, if he crept up behind her with the bag?
There was an injury to RZs upper / rear left shoulder that was described as a vertical rope burn that came out in Cyril Wechts testimony.
Cynic kindly posted an image of it previously from the court filings.
I was wondering if we could revisit it, and if anyone had a theory on how the injury may have occurred?
I also recall it was not mentioned on the autopsy report, which arguably could make it new evidence ( at least to the police investigation)
Any thoughts or ideas on how it happened?
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It’s a very good point you make.
I recall the defense referred to it as a rope burn, Wecht said possibly, but it was totally unrelated IHO to the neck ‘rope burns’ as it was in an unrelated area and it was vertical. To be associated he ( Wecht) said it had to be horizontal.
There was a lot of argument about it being ‘vertical’, but with a picture on the screen, the defense couldn’t argue it was anything other than vertical.
I was thinking ..what could make a vertical rope burn ( or as you rightly say ‘abrasion’.) in this location?
If it’s not recorded on the autopsy no wonder it’s not clear! The deep bruise in the small of the back was also only identified on the second autopsy too I recall?
I wonder if Cynic can repost his link to the picture?
It was a very deep purple, irregular and long, with tapering edges. The picture Cynic posted has the shoulder positioned upwards, the one in court had the shoulder downward, so it appeared in a more ‘vertical’ alignment on the shoulder.
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A variation of the hogtie has been used to torture and kill: the hands are tied behind the back and the feet are tied together, with one end of the rope forming a noose around the victim's neck. The tension on the neck-rope can only be relieved if the victim keeps their neck, back and legs arched; eventually, the victim tires and strangles.
https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Hogtie&item_type=topic
If she was struggling as it is explained above, perhaps this might be the cause of the rope burn on shoulders and it could also be how she died.....
I need to look at the picture again. I have seen pictures of hogties that have a rope going up the shoulder blade in that general location, so that was my initial thought, but I'm not sure if the rest of the rope evidence supports something along those lines...
Now we need to know if there's any evidence of the hogtie rope extending to the noose.
ETA: What Verboten said just above, which I didn't see before posting.
A noose can only be started and tightened along a surface which is not sloping it really is that simple.Its a very good point you make.
I recall the defense referred to it as a rope burn, Wecht said possibly, but it was totally unrelated IHO to the neck rope burns as it was in an unrelated area and it was vertical. To be associated he ( Wecht) said it had to be horizontal.
There was a lot of argument about it being vertical, but with a picture on the screen, the defense couldnt argue it was anything other than vertical.
I was thinking ..what could make a vertical rope burn ( or as you rightly say abrasion.) in this location?
If its not recorded on the autopsy no wonder its not clear! The deep bruise in the small of the back was also only identified on the second autopsy too I recall?
I wonder if Cynic can repost his link to the picture?
It was a very deep purple, irregular and long, with tapering edges. The picture Cynic posted has the shoulder positioned upwards, the one in court had the shoulder downward, so it appeared in a more vertical alignment on the shoulder.
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Her DNA was found INSIDE the bag though................................
That has always bugged me.
A noose can only be started and tightened along a surface which is not sloping it really is that simple.
As the injury was not noted by either Lucas or Wecht in their respective reports, its unclear if its an abrasion or perhaps a bruise.
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Thanks guys for the theories, all very thought provoking. Thanks too to Cynic for the images.( super helpful)
Theres something about this mark thats sticking with me, I really do believe its significant. If we can just figure it out.
Re the previous question, the rope lengths cut from the noose were 6 1/2 for the short section and 26 for the long section ( from memory as I dont have my notes with me) ...the long section was originally part of the long bed tie section - so I think the other end was too short for the hogtie connection. Plus, the hog tie wrist to ankle length fit perfectly, so I cant see how this would fit...very good considerations though..
Re the bag theory, what action would result in the mark being vertical? ... its another good suggestion - I cant quite figure out the proximity and angle that would be used if it were the bag that caused it...i looked at it again on the crime scene pics, it doesnt look damaged or stretched, its still folded as though it were taken off a trash can ( like it was folded over the lip) ..but its certainly one to ponder though.
Its very purple, very dark...it would be good to get K_Z opinion on it...Wecht didnt discount it as a rope burn...I will try and find Cyril Wechts autopsy notes to see if he refers to it in more detail ( if anyone else finds it first please post )
I do have a work in progress theory on this, but would like to see if anyone else sees where I am going.. bear in mind where she could be hung, if not the balcony, and what tugboat captains are proficient at, as well as knots...
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