Rebecca Zahau Wrongful Death/ADAM SHACKNAI FOUND RESPONSIBLE #5
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I would think. I noticed the way Webb CRANKED his head for each hand count during the verdict. I guess he could have just been ensuring accuracy, but I had the distinct feeling he was making note of all dissenters. I bet he *really* is interested in juror #9, the one who did not vote with the majority on any single one of the issues in front of them.
Tortoise
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[FONT=&]Very emotional moment. Next step City Hall and getting the investigation reopened so "suicide" can be stricken from Rebecca's death certificate. [/FONT]#rebeccazahau#zahau#sheriffgore#truecrime
https://twitter.com/NelCepeda/status/981631829554872321
https://twitter.com/GreerLawyer
https://twitter.com/NelCepeda/status/981631829554872321
https://twitter.com/GreerLawyer
Mica
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Kudos to Mr. Greer!!
Re-opening the case..
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There was an injury to RZs upper / rear left shoulder that was described as a vertical rope burn that came out in Cyril Wechts testimony.
Cynic kindly posted an image of it previously from the court filings.
I was wondering if we could revisit it, and if anyone had a theory on how the injury may have occurred?
I also recall it was not mentioned on the autopsy report, which arguably could make it new evidence ( at least to the police investigation)
Any thoughts or ideas on how it happened?
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Cynic kindly posted an image of it previously from the court filings.
I was wondering if we could revisit it, and if anyone had a theory on how the injury may have occurred?
I also recall it was not mentioned on the autopsy report, which arguably could make it new evidence ( at least to the police investigation)
Any thoughts or ideas on how it happened?
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Tortoise
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I wonder how they know it is rope burn, and not an abrasion of unknown origin.
I say this because they could be restricting their opinion to materials found with or on the body, particularly Dr Lucas with his suicide theory and not factoring in any kind of prior struggle.
I still wonder about the plastic bag being put over Rebecca's head. Was it tied around, did Rebecca struggle to get it off before her hands were bound, was it a 'game' by which I mean Adam was taunting her, alternately suffocating and releasing her? Hog-tying and penetrating her with a knife handle would suggest he was subjecting her to his fantasies. Was it so that she couldn't see him even, if he crept up behind her with the bag?
It’s a very good point you make.
I recall the defense referred to it as a rope burn, Wecht said possibly, but it was totally unrelated IHO to the neck ‘rope burns’ as it was in an unrelated area and it was vertical. To be associated he ( Wecht) said it had to be horizontal.
There was a lot of argument about it being ‘vertical’, but with a picture on the screen, the defense couldn’t argue it was anything other than vertical.
I was thinking ..what could make a vertical rope burn ( or as you rightly say ‘abrasion’.) in this location?
If it’s not recorded on the autopsy no wonder it’s not clear! The deep bruise in the small of the back was also only identified on the second autopsy too I recall?
I wonder if Cynic can repost his link to the picture?
It was a very deep purple, irregular and long, with tapering edges. The picture Cynic posted has the shoulder positioned upwards, the one in court had the shoulder downward, so it appeared in a more ‘vertical’ alignment on the shoulder.
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A variation of the hogtie has been used to torture and kill: the hands are tied behind the back and the feet are tied together, with one end of the rope forming a noose around the victim's neck. The tension on the neck-rope can only be relieved if the victim keeps their neck, back and legs arched; eventually, the victim tires and strangles.
https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Hogtie&item_type=topic
If she was struggling as it is explained above, perhaps this might be the cause of the rope burn on shoulders and it could also be how she died.....
I need to look at the picture again. I have seen pictures of hogties that have a rope going up the shoulder blade in that general location, so that was my initial thought, but I'm not sure if the rest of the rope evidence supports something along those lines...
Now we need to know if there's any evidence of the hogtie rope extending to the noose.
ETA: What Verboten said just above, which I didn't see before posting.
How long was the rope that was left from the noose , the length that Was left when Adam cut her down? Could it have been long enough to have been tied in to a hogtie situation?
Now we need to know if there's any evidence of the hogtie rope extending to the noose.
ETA: What Verboten said just above, which I didn't see before posting.
If she actually died this way. It would explain adam's lie about using the table to cut rebecca down. If she was never actually hanging at all and he threw the rope over the railing, tied the rope to the bed, and realized that the rope was hanging higher than he expected, he had to have a way of explaining why he would've cut the rope so high up.
A noose can only be started and tightened along a surface which is not sloping it really is that simple.
As the injury was not noted by either Lucas or Wecht in their respective reports, its unclear if its an abrasion or perhaps a bruise.
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Thanks guys for the theories, all very thought provoking. Thanks too to Cynic for the images.( super helpful)
There’s something about this mark that’s sticking with me, I really do believe it’s significant. If we can just figure it out.
Re the previous question, the rope lengths cut from the noose were 6 1/2” for the short section and 26” for the long section ( from memory as I don’t have my notes with me) ...the long section was originally part of the long bed tie section - so I think the other end was too short for the hogtie connection. Plus, the hog tie wrist to ankle length fit perfectly, so I can’t see how this would fit...very good considerations though..
Re the bag theory, what action would result in the mark being vertical? ... it’s another good suggestion - I can’t quite figure out the proximity and angle that would be used if it were the bag that caused it...i looked at it again on the crime scene pics, it doesn’t look damaged or stretched, it’s still folded as though it were taken off a trash can ( like it was folded over the lip) ..but it’s certainly one to ponder though.
It’s very purple, very dark...it would be good to get K_Z opinion on it...Wecht didn’t discount it as a rope burn...I will try and find Cyril Wecht’s autopsy notes to see if he refers to it in more detail ( if anyone else finds it first please post )
I do have a ‘work in progress’ theory on this, but would like to see if anyone else sees where I am going.. bear in mind where she could be hung, if not the balcony, and what tugboat captains are proficient at, as well as knots...
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There’s something about this mark that’s sticking with me, I really do believe it’s significant. If we can just figure it out.
Re the previous question, the rope lengths cut from the noose were 6 1/2” for the short section and 26” for the long section ( from memory as I don’t have my notes with me) ...the long section was originally part of the long bed tie section - so I think the other end was too short for the hogtie connection. Plus, the hog tie wrist to ankle length fit perfectly, so I can’t see how this would fit...very good considerations though..
Re the bag theory, what action would result in the mark being vertical? ... it’s another good suggestion - I can’t quite figure out the proximity and angle that would be used if it were the bag that caused it...i looked at it again on the crime scene pics, it doesn’t look damaged or stretched, it’s still folded as though it were taken off a trash can ( like it was folded over the lip) ..but it’s certainly one to ponder though.
It’s very purple, very dark...it would be good to get K_Z opinion on it...Wecht didn’t discount it as a rope burn...I will try and find Cyril Wecht’s autopsy notes to see if he refers to it in more detail ( if anyone else finds it first please post )
I do have a ‘work in progress’ theory on this, but would like to see if anyone else sees where I am going.. bear in mind where she could be hung, if not the balcony, and what tugboat captains are proficient at, as well as knots...
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MsFacetious
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Her DNA was found INSIDE the bag though................................
That has always bugged me.
That has always bugged me.
Yes, me too... I always thought possibly suffocation...but there is as litttle DNA from RZ in that ‘hanging room’ as there is of AS, so what if most of the ‘activity’ and abuse took place in the guest house ( as AS has already told us in his 911
Call!)?
Let’s say all the tying etc was done over there, and the bag was used to transport the long length of rope back to the hanging room, to be staged and tied to the bed. There would be a lot of ‘friction DNA’ on that rope if it was removed from RZ body...maybe it’s transfer DNA to the inside of the bag from the ropes?
Of course, it could have been used for both purposes....
Thoughts?
A noose can only be started and tightened along a surface which is not sloping it really is that simple.
As the injury was not noted by either Lucas or Wecht in their respective reports, its unclear if its an abrasion or perhaps a bruise.
Look at this, its been created with something pointed...you can see an initial point, or jab like scratch. Then it begins in the main mark at a point, like perhaps the skin was scraping against or along something sharp, like a corner of something...?
MrsThreadgoode
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My eyes could be fooling me, but when Cynic (thank you for posting the pic!) mentioned that it could possibly be a bruise, I have never in my many, many decades of living seen a bruise like that. And it seems more than an abrasion to me as well. There is an odd shape to it, and tapered to points at each end ... more like a tear?
Will be very interested to hear what you find out about what Wecht said about it.
Thank you!
MOO
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