Reported/Possible sightings of Elizabeth and/or Gabriel from 12/18 to 12/30

[Boo Scout]

The thing I like is that the man they interviewed MD said he is 100% that it was EJ. He's not hemming and hawin. 100%. The laudromat is key.

IMO. I agree. I think putting this together will all the other timeline info, pieces start to really fit into an illegal/underground adoption scenario. I'm laying it all out for myself and will share when it's in a better state.

Wish we had times!!

 

[TXHOPE]

This is my opinion too. If she was there 4 days starting on 12/23, I believe 12/23 is the first day the potential adoptive couple spent time with Gabriel.

The pizza order for 2 pizzas was that evening, and I believe the couple, HG, EJ, and Gabe were together that night in the hotel.

I think things continued to work themselves out with this scenario from there and EJ's MS posts make sense as the plan progressed successfully in her eyes.

But I think if she was nervous it was not b/c she was deciding whether or not to go through with this, I think she was selfishly nervous, hoping that her plan would work out, wondering if for some reason the adoptive couple wouldn't want Gabriel or something else might go wrong.

MOO.

Or wondering if LM was going to show up at any moment.

 

[BeanE]

Or because she was doing something illegal and afraid she'd be caught and arrested before she got out of Dodge.

 

[BeanE]

IMO. I agree. I think putting this together will all the other timeline info, pieces start to really fit into an illegal/underground adoption scenario. I'm laying it all out for myself and will share when it's in a better state.

Wish we had times!!

I like where you're going with this. It's fitting together. Could you start a new thread for your theory once you have it laid out?

The pizza was Dec 24:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=1493&day=2009-12-24&c=6

There are some times in the case calendar. If you go to month view, then from there, you click on each event and you'll see times in the descriptions.

Holler if I can help you find any info.

Monthly view for December:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?s=&c=6&week=&month=12&year=2009

 

[Boo Scout]

I like where you're going with this. It's fitting together. Could you start a new thread for your theory once you have it laid out?

The pizza was Dec 24:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=1493&day=2009-12-24&c=6

Will do. Hope to have it more together later today.

Thank you - I think in the back of my head I even knew I had the pizza date wrong on my doc I'm keeping to track all this stuff, and just forgot to move it to the 24th.

But that still makes sense, maybe even more sense, b/c that would have given 2 days of visits and things probably would have been taking shape even more, and the pizza meeting could have been working out details.

 

[Catbird1]

That makes a lot of sense - thanks Catbird...

Could it be possible that the laundromat also was a good vantage point for EJ to watch something - possibly a location that a potential "adoptive couple" was spending time with Gabe?

IMO, it makes sense to me that EJ would be nervous at this point - not for Gabe's safety, but anxious that the plan she was putting together would work out, and that she'd be free to move on with her life.

I think you may have something with a "vantage point" suggestion. If DeLeon is positive it was EJ, and she kept going back to the same set of dryers, maybe EJ wasn't looking for something in or on the dryers, but watching something or someone from the position of standing in front of those dryers. Wonder what someone would be looking at by standing in front of those specific dryers and looking either out the window or out the front door. If LM was planning on going back to the laundry, maybe LM should have DeLeon show him exactly where EJ was standing an in what direction she was facing, look in the same direction and make a note of what businesses or buildings are seen from that viewpoint. Might not be anything, but who knows....

 

[BeanE]

From MissingGabe:

- December 22 is one of the sightings of the Hispanic man with whom Elizabeth was seen

- The sighting of Elizabeth with the Hispanic man and the couple in the parking lot of the hotel was on either December 24 or 25


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4882331"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Questions for & Info from Gabe's Family **No Discussion**[/ame]

 

[Boo Scout]

The thing I like is that the man they interviewed MD said he is 100% that it was EJ. He's not hemming and hawin. 100%. The laudromat is key.

Something is bothering me. Don't know if it's anything, but I'll put it out there.

In a Google maps search of E-Z Wash Laundromat, San Antonio, TX I come up with 8 E-Z Wash listings with San Antonio addresses. None of them match the address we have for E-Z Wash, which is 4112 Gardendale, San Antonio, TX 78229.

From the post below, we can clearly see that there is an E-Z Wash in that plaza:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4858352&postcount=184"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Reported/Possible sightings of Elizabeth and/or Gabriel from 12/18 to 12/30[/ame]

In a general Google search for E-Z Wash Laundromat, Gardendale, San Antonio, TX - nothing with that address comes up.

If all of the other E-Z Washes have listings, how come this E-Z Wash would not have an address/phone listing? Different owner possibly?

I know it may be nothing, but I find it curious.

 

[Litlred]

Something is bothering me. Don't know if it's anything, but I'll put it out there.

In a Google maps search of E-Z Wash Laundromat, San Antonio, TX I come up with 8 E-Z Wash listings with San Antonio addresses. None of them match the address we have for E-Z Wash, which is 4112 Gardendale, San Antonio, TX 78229.

From the post below, we can clearly see that there is an E-Z Wash in that plaza:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Reported/Possible sightings of Elizabeth and/or Gabriel from 12/18 to 12/30

In a general Google search for E-Z Wash Laundromat, Gardendale, San Antonio, TX - nothing with that address comes up.

If all of the other E-Z Washes have listings, how come this E-Z Wash would not have an address/phone listing? Different owner possibly?

I know it may be nothing, but I find it curious.

It is odd. I just reversed the address of 4112 Gardendale San Antonio on white pages and I'm getting nothing. Will do some more searching.

 

[Litlred]

I did a neighbor search on white pages for 4110 Gardendale and a bunch of individual peoples names pop up for addresses before and after 4112 Gardendale and the businesses they are associated with, but nothing for the exact address of 4112 Gardendale. Maybe they don't have a phone there?

 

[chell]

This guy was doing maintenance on washers and dryers on Christmas??? Just hanging around for long enough to see EJ? Maybe he's talking about different days than we think.

 

[Taeobi]

Well I did think I read somewhere that they found a "basket" of clothes left behind. So perhaps she did do some laundry on the 26th. You could tell by those pics of Gabriel that his clothes were a little food stained. An I agree that she might have sent some with him in the diaper bag.

There is also a Smitty's Pub in that little plaza according to the satellite image. I assume by the news story that LM and LE have spoken with this man so I'd also assume they've checked out this area and put up posters? Spoke to people in the pub?

I agree with you BeanE. I have a gut feeling that this has something to do with HG too. Could he live and possibly have family in the area who may have watched Gabriel? Non english speaking family? Maybe just a mother that he lives with? It seems that someone must have been watching Gabriel at various times and no one has come forward other than the first babysitter, that it appears EJ called as soon as she got to SA, so after that she seemed to have other alternate babysitting arrangements. JMO.

Maybe her washing Gabriel's clothes was just part of her plan to make LM believe that she did the unthinkable. She claimed to have done something horrible and if she really did that, of course she would leave all of his stuff behind. So she could have been in that area allowing the couple, maybe, to have some time with Gabriel to bond or something. Then the last day, while she was there she washed everything that needed to be washed in preparation for her master plan. Could just be one more strategy to add confusion. Another thought, she may have realized that getting a babysitter for Gabriel would be too risky. I hate to think that, but it has been said that she had left him alone in AZ. A place where she lived with LM, knew people and was opening herself up--if caught leaving her child alone--to judgment from friends and family. Why not in TX where she knew no one? I think there is a very good chance she left him alone while she went out running her errands or doing whatever she had to do. MOO

 

[Litlred]

Something is bothering me. Don't know if it's anything, but I'll put it out there.

In a Google maps search of E-Z Wash Laundromat, San Antonio, TX I come up with 8 E-Z Wash listings with San Antonio addresses. None of them match the address we have for E-Z Wash, which is 4112 Gardendale, San Antonio, TX 78229.

From the post below, we can clearly see that there is an E-Z Wash in that plaza:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Reported/Possible sightings of Elizabeth and/or Gabriel from 12/18 to 12/30

In a general Google search for E-Z Wash Laundromat, Gardendale, San Antonio, TX - nothing with that address comes up.

If all of the other E-Z Washes have listings, how come this E-Z Wash would not have an address/phone listing? Different owner possibly?

I know it may be nothing, but I find it curious.

Per the EPA they have E-Z WASH 19
4109 GARDENDALE
SAN ANTONIO, TX 78229

http://oaspub.epa.gov/enviro/fii_query_dtl.disp_program_facility?p_registry_id=110014363599

 

[Boo Scout]

Per the EPA they have E-Z WASH 19
4109 GARDENDALE
SAN ANTONIO, TX 78229

http://oaspub.epa.gov/enviro/fii_query_dtl.disp_program_facility?p_registry_id=110014363599

Thanks, it makes sense that the address was wrong. I do still find it curious that all the other ones pop up in Google maps, but not that one, but it's probably something as simple as whoever owns it doesn't pay for a phone there or something like that.

 

[Kamille]

The fact that this laundromat could not be googled that easily and that I had to literally go from one end of Gardendale to the other (yes I started at the wrong end...isn't that always the case? lol) to find it is why I believe that of all of the places she went, this was the one I have to believe she was directed to by someone else. IMO

I wish we knew what questions LM and LE have asked of Mr DeLeon. Did he notice any other people who were coming in during those days more than once and not doing laundry? He indicates that it was for 4 days but was he there and the laundromat was open Christmas Day? I have to keep remembering that all of this was taking place at a time when some of this behaviour should have seemed very odd so it should have stood out to more people.

Do we know if LE and/or LM have spoken with the people in the Food Mart? I think it's a pretty good bet that she went in there at least once.

The more than once a day visit to the laundromat is stumping me though. :waitasec:

MOO

 

[Taeobi]

The fact that this laundromat could not be googled that easily and that I had to literally go from one end of Gardendale to the other (yes I started at the wrong end...isn't that always the case? lol) to find it is why I believe that of all of the places she went, this was the one I have to believe she was directed to by someone else. IMO

I wish we knew what questions LM and LE have asked of Mr DeLeon. Did he notice any other people who were coming in during those days more than once and not doing laundry? He indicates that it was for 4 days but was he there and the laundromat was open Christmas Day? I have to keep remembering that all of this was taking place at a time when some of this behaviour should have seemed very odd so it should have stood out to more people.

Do we know if LE and/or LM have spoken with the people in the Food Mart? I think it's a pretty good bet that she went in there at least once.

The more than once a day visit to the laundromat is stumping me though. :waitasec:

MOO

Also if he is a regular worker there, is this a normal patter that he may have seen with other random women?? Maybe this is an area that have scheduled bonding times and that could possibly be a waiting place within the area? Just a thought...

 

[NewMommy09]

If EJ was hanging around the laundromat while Gabriel was spending time "getting acquainted" with this couple, my question is this.
Are there any obvious places around the laundromat that someone could/would take a child to spend time with them?
Is it possible this couple actually lives in that area?

eta: Do we know if there are fliers up in this area?

 

[NewMommy09]

http://www.malibugrandprix.com/site/sanantonio/directions.html
I found this place when looking for recreational places in the area. Gabe is obviously too young to enjoy a lot of this, but if the couple wanted to take him somewhere where they would NOT stand out, this would be a good bet.

And per White Pages, this is the closest park to that zip code.

Rosedale Park
340 Dartmouth St
San Antonio, TX 78237

Also, some Baby related shops in that area:

Babies & More
2001 Bandera Rd
San Antonio, TX 78228 Map

Kid To Kid
4911 NW Loop 410
San Antonio, TX 78229 Map

Baby Things
5943 Ingram Rd
San Antonio, TX 78228 Map

 

[TXHOPE]

Here's one those jumpy house, inflatable moon walk places. They have a baby play area.

Dynamoze Indoor Play Center
15032 San Pedro Ave
San Antonio, Tx, 78232

 

[TXHOPE]

The San Antonio Zoo is only 7 miles away.

San Antonio Zoo
3903 N St Marys St
San Antonio, TX 78212

It's open 9AM-5PM 365 days a year so even on Christmas