Rescue at sea for sick baby

[basilcat]

Hmm..
Dear ladyli...
I believe you have to be able to read " between the lines" a bit...
Straightforward maybe not..
IMO...
Negligence and selfishness come into play when you willingly, knowingly and with purpose exposé your little ones to an environment which is not conducive to comfort, peace, safety,growth in order yo satisfy your own "innate needs" for travel, fun adventure...
Without little ones, this rescue would not be seen the same way...
But, if you are reading the blogs it can easily be inferred what lack of care,and compassion was given to the darling girls during this abysmal journey..
Yes, they packed tons ( complaining all the way)... Yes, they attempted to be a happy,little sailing family...but the resentment, anger and futility of the adults towards the whole trips and the little ones also rang loud and clear...there was no hesitation in her wishing they would just nap...
The darling little ones should have been purveyors of playgrounds, enjoying tot friends etc..
There were many adventures that I longed for when my boys were little..but they were weighed against their emotional and physical capabilities and love...to limit little ones to such a small space without reason ( ie evacuation from a war torn country) seems harsh..
The mom makes it more than clear in her blog how often resentment crops up in her motherly duties on board...
It all just turns out to be so very sad..
If they " had" to do this trip they should have waited until the girls were older, or they were retired or something..
The little ones didn't stand chance....
.thank god they lived through this abysmal mistake...IMO

 

[momrids6]

Hmm..
Dear ladyli...
I believe you have to be able to read " between the lines" a bit...
Straightforward maybe not..
IMO...
Negligence and selfishness come into play when you willingly, knowingly and with purpose exposé your little ones to an environment which is not conducive to comfort, peace, safety,growth in order yo satisfy your own "innate needs" for travel, fun adventure...
Without little ones, this rescue would not be seen the same way...
But, if you are reading the blogs it can easily be inferred what lack of care,and compassion was given to the darling girls during this abysmal journey..
Yes, they packed tons ( complaining all the way)... Yes, they attempted to be a happy,little sailing family...but the resentment, anger and futility of the adults towards the whole trips and the little ones also rang loud and clear...there was no hesitation in her wishing they would just nap...
The darling little ones should have been purveyors of playgrounds, enjoying tot friends etc..
There were many adventures that I longed for when my boys were little..but they were weighed against their emotional and physical capabilities and love...to limit little ones to such a small space without reason ( ie evacuation from a war torn country) seems harsh..
The mom makes it more than clear in her blog how often resentment crops up in her motherly duties on board...
It all just turns out to be so very sad..
If they " had" to do this trip they should have waited until the girls were older, or they were retired or something..
The little ones didn't stand chance....
.thank god they lived through this abysmal mistake...IMO

:goodpost::thewave:

 

[MyBelle]

Fair enough. So people think they are selfish and lack common sense. That's an entirely subjective pov though. I'm the first one to jump on people who don't put their children first - I just don't necessarily see that here. For example, I might think it's wrong for some parents to let their kids run around outside unsupervised ... others might think it's fine.

I'm pretty sure letting infants and toddlers run around outside unsupervised can have pretty harsh consequences if one of them gets hurt. I think these parents are lucky not to be charged with child abuse.

I'm curious if you've ever been on a sailboat that size? Because if you have, you would understand it is not a safe or suitable or sanitary environment to LIVE on the open seas with a 13-month-old baby. It was small and cramped and would be impossible for the child to walk or even be seated on the floor without being tossed from side to side. The severe rocking from rough water was so severe, their "solution" was to tightly confine the baby in some kind of contraption so she could sleep. It is not sanitary to rinse poopy diapers in a sink used for the preparation of food but hey, she not only did it, she took the time to blog about it. I have yet to see the parents take any responsibility for the very real physical misery they subjected their children to endure.

At least the rescuers had the good sense to sink the boat so this stunt wouldn't be repeated any time soon.

JMO

 

[LadyL]

I had a longer post prepared and thought ah screw it - just read Charlotte's blog entry from Nov.3/13 because it sums it all up pretty well for me.

http://www.therebelheart.com/charlottes-blog/category/shakedown-cruise

For the record, I do know a family who raised their kids sailing and the kids are fantastically well-rounded people now, one of whom is in school to be a (maritime) lawyer and has friends all over the world.

I respect that people care enough about the kids to criticize what they interpret to be a parenting fail. I just don't think the facts support the criticism. Like I said before, I think it's more about whether the parents are likeable, rather than if they're capable and I've still not seen any evidence that these parents are negligent. There's many blog mentions about the safety measures they adhere to - quite the opposite of the accusations of carelessness IMO.

One last point; Lera was cleared to sail by a doctor before they departed. After the family was saved, they went to the doctor. As far as I know, they were not sent to the hospital. That's a clear indication to me that the rumours of how ill Lera was are an exaggeration.

 

[JerseyGirl]

One last point; Lera was cleared to sail by a doctor before they departed. After the family was saved, they went to the doctor. As far as I know, they were not sent to the hospital. That's a clear indication to me that the rumours of how ill Lera was are an exaggeration.

The doctor who cleared Lyra to sail was a Mexican doctor. After they were saved, they went to a doctor in San Diego.

I believe Lyra was sick and needed pediatric antibiotics because once the paratroopers arrived and administered medicine, Lyra was fine.

The parents failed to bring along on the boat the necessary medication needed for the kids.

 

[MyBelle]

I had a longer post prepared and thought ah screw it - just read Charlotte's blog entry from Nov.3/13 because it sums it all up pretty well for me.

http://www.therebelheart.com/charlottes-blog/category/shakedown-cruise

For the record, I do know a family who raised their kids sailing and the kids are fantastically well-rounded people now, one of whom is in school to be a (maritime) lawyer and has friends all over the world.

I respect that people care enough about the kids to criticize what they interpret to be a parenting fail. I just don't think the facts support the criticism. Like I said before, I think it's more about whether the parents are likeable, rather than if they're capable and I've still not seen any evidence that these parents are negligent. There's many blog mentions about the safety measures they adhere to - quite the opposite of the accusations of carelessness IMO.

One last point; Lera was cleared to sail by a doctor before they departed. After the family was saved, they went to the doctor. As far as I know, they were not sent to the hospital. That's a clear indication to me that the rumours of how ill Lera was are an exaggeration.

An exaggeration? I doubt the elite team of rescuers share your opinion. I do not. The child was transported to a Navy frigate with a sophisticated sick bay. My opinion is based on my own experience both in sailboats and with infants. These parents were totally irresponsible in their decision to live on a small sailboat in a rough ocean. Rinsing a poopy diaper in the sink is a safety measure? There is an over-abundance of facts that support the criticism, imo. I'm thrilled those rescuers sank the boat.

'Seriously ill' baby girl rescued from stalled sailboat in Pacific Ocean

An elite, four-man team of Air National Guardsmen loaded 1-year-old Lyra Kaufman onto an inflatable raft early Sunday morning and ferried her to the USS Vandergrift, where sailors will care for her until they can reach a hospital, the U.S. Coast Guard said in a statement.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...pacific-ocean-article-1.1747474#ixzz2zj3iOfvO


Servicemen Describe Harrowing Rescue..
The 129th Rescue Wing took Lyra and her family to an undisclosed medical facility, according to a Guardian Angels spokesperson.

Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...cue-Sea-Kaufman--254568371.html#ixzz2zj5H582B
Follow us: @nbcsandiego on Twitter | NBCSanDiego on Facebook

 

[LinasK]

The doctor who cleared Lyra to sail was a Mexican doctor. After they were saved, they went to a doctor in San Diego.

I believe Lyra was sick and needed pediatric antibiotics because once the paratroopers arrived and administered medicine, Lyra was fine.

The parents failed to bring along on the boat the necessary medication needed for the kids.

Common sense tells most people that if your child just had salmonella- even if they didn't- you don't wash out poopy diapers in the same sink you prep food in!:banghead::banghead::banghead: That's not being a well-prepared sailor, room for the kids to run around unsupervised aside. That's a whole separate issue. And the mother is just plain selfish with baking a cake, and lying about it when the kid clearly smelled it!!!

 

[JerseyGirl]

Common sense tells most people that if your child just had salmonella- even if they didn't- you don't wash out poopy diapers in the same sink you prep food in!:banghead::banghead::banghead: That's not being a well-prepared sailor, room for the kids to run around unsupervised aside. That's a whole separate issue. And the mother is just plain selfish with baking a cake, and lying about it when the kid clearly smelled it!!!

It's not even that they gobbled the cake up before Cora woke up that morning. It was the fact that she LIED to Cora's sweet little face saying they ate it all, when she knew they were saving cake for themselves for the following night.

Not to mention the fact that she used her blender cup to clean her razor while shaving her legs, just to please Eric with smooth skin.

grrr...........

 

[gitana1]

I believe I had most of the facts when I posted. I suggested I may not have ALL the facts because it's a bit difficult to read every single blog post and every single news story and every single post here. I was asking for more information, not generalities and certainly not for anyone to take it personally. I probably should have said something different than 'admittedly mostly uniformed mind' because that was an exaggeration and gave the wrong idea about my knowledge. I think I assumed I didn't have enough knowledge because I couldn't understand the strong reaction I was seeing.

Her husband is an experienced sailor and from all accounts, they planned years in advance by living on the boat first. I read that her sick baby was cleared by a doctor for travel.

If this is really about how people don't like them, then let's call it what it is and not pretend it's about lack of training, supplies, and preparation. I still haven't seen any quote from either of them that makes them appear 'pompous and careless' so I'm going to chalk that up to subjectivity.

I have no idea what your social media comment is referring to?

I'm pretty good at separating emotion from fact, even when the facts cause emotion in me. It's my job. So here are some problems with this couple that point to extreme negligence. These came from the Rebel Heart blog posts, that I copied from other sailors (who had compiled them):

1. Do not depart offshore if your spouse isn't into it. It isn't fair, he/she most likely she will hate it and if something bad happens you will never live it down and you will feel horrible.
2. Do not depart if your vessel isn't ready. There are no parts stores offshore. The leaks on Rebel Heart that occurred when the engine started were likely from a cracked heat exchanger. If you can't afford to ensure functioning of important equipment you can't afford to make your family dependent on those systems.
3. Don't wash dirty diapers in the galley sink. You might get very sick.
4. The Interweb is your friend. If you have a health issue, or if your child has a health issue, learn everything you possibly can before departing. You might just find out that the illness that made your child sick has a probability to recur, as a quick Google search will reveal is the case with salmonella.
5. If you have a known health issue, do take the heaviest duty drugs that can help with the condition you can finangle from your doctor. You may save someone's life with them without resorting to the US Navy.
6. Some equipment is essential to safe cruising. Preventers, spinnaker poles, self steering, etc. are essential and you should have them. Green bamboo is not a reliable spinnaker pole, and just as a side note, when it breaks it throws very sharp splinters in all directions, never mind punching a hole in your drifter.
7. Energy dependence on a single source is not a good idea. Either be ready and prepared for no energy at all, or have a backup genset.
8. Carry extra fuel if you are going to be dependent on an engine.
9. If the safety of your family is important to you, at the first sign of a problem, start heading for a destination that can provide assistance. You can always turn around if it is a false emergency.
10. If you have a very small child understand that they are light and will fly around the cabin if it gets really rough. Containment of their little bodies is very important.
11. If you like the idea of blue water, pick your first leg to be something other than the longest land to land distance on the planet. Good time to shake things down.
12. If your spouse is not prepared to manage the vessel all by herself if you fall off, break a leg, have a heart attack or jump off the boat clutching the ship's clock, then you being very irresponsible. Take the time to train her so she doesn't have the fear of something happening to you adding to whatever else she doesn't like about cruising.
13. Only step off your boat when you have to step up into a life raft, which you have to carry, and which has to be inspected and which you and your wife should know how to deploy because you have practiced.

From another sailor, similarly:
1. Don't leave with sick kids on medication
2. Have some prior offshore experience
3. Know how you and your spouse will handle stressful situations
4. Have some prior foul weather experience...
5. Know how to repair one's equipment and have the stuff onboard to do so when the time comes.
6. Bring jerry cans of extra fuel and water.
7. Take sea sick medication before you get sick, not.... 4 days later.
8. Purchase a genuine aluminum whisker pole... not scavenged bamboo.
9. Don't have a set timetable in order to meet unrealistic personal goals.

From the above, other sailor's comments and the blog posts themselves I have gleaned that:
1. Husband cut up the primary fuel tank and reduced the capacity of fuel for some reason and made other alterations to the boat that could've comprised it. He also lacked the equipment to reduce risk of an event such as the one that occurred or to deal with emergencies.
2. They claimed the baby was "cleared" for travel but they may not be telling the truth and/or are exaggerating what the doctor stated and/or weren't sufficiently prepared for a recurrence of the problem.
3. They did not have efficient/proper sanitation on the boat.
4. The boat was prone to taking on water.
5. Wife could not sail the boat really. But, according to their blog posts, the boat needed to be manned by someone or a watch kept, 24 hours per day. How is that possible with two children, only one person who can sail and only two adults total? When do they sleep? And what if the husband died or became incapacitated? How would the wife have gotten the kids and herself to safety?
6. The wife hated it and did not have sea legs. She complained non-stop. She was prone to seasickness. It was brutal for her.
7. They lived on the boat in a marina. The bulk of their cruising/sailing experience was not in the open ocean. They actually had very little experience in the open ocean.
8. They jimmy rigged safety measures for the kids. This is detailed on the blog. They didn't pre-plan how to secure two small children in rough seas and had to improvise when it occurred and their kids were being flung all over the place.

To me, the above shows that these people were too inexperienced, ill equipped and unprepared for such a trip. From other comments I've read all over the place, the husband had set unrealistic goals for this trip and that's why they did what they did with what they had- ego.

That's fine for two adults who can choose for themselves. But when they take babies along, that's negligence.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I'm pretty good at separating emotion from fact, even when the facts cause emotion in me. It's my job. So here are some problems with this couple that point to extreme negligence. These came from the Rebel Heart blog posts, that I copied from other sailors (who had compiled them):

1. Do not depart offshore if your spouse isn't into it. It isn't fair, he/she most likely she will hate it and if something bad happens you will never live it down and you will feel horrible.
2. Do not depart if your vessel isn't ready. There are no parts stores offshore. The leaks on Rebel Heart that occurred when the engine started were likely from a cracked heat exchanger. If you can't afford to ensure functioning of important equipment you can't afford to make your family dependent on those systems.
3. Don't wash dirty diapers in the galley sink. You might get very sick.
4. The Interweb is your friend. If you have a health issue, or if your child has a health issue, learn everything you possibly can before departing. You might just find out that the illness that made your child sick has a probability to recur, as a quick Google search will reveal is the case with salmonella.
5. If you have a known health issue, do take the heaviest duty drugs that can help with the condition you can finangle from your doctor. You may save someone's life with them without resorting to the US Navy.
6. Some equipment is essential to safe cruising. Preventers, spinnaker poles, self steering, etc. are essential and you should have them. Green bamboo is not a reliable spinnaker pole, and just as a side note, when it breaks it throws very sharp splinters in all directions, never mind punching a hole in your drifter.
7. Energy dependence on a single source is not a good idea. Either be ready and prepared for no energy at all, or have a backup genset.
8. Carry extra fuel if you are going to be dependent on an engine.
9. If the safety of your family is important to you, at the first sign of a problem, start heading for a destination that can provide assistance. You can always turn around if it is a false emergency.
10. If you have a very small child understand that they are light and will fly around the cabin if it gets really rough. Containment of their little bodies is very important.
11. If you like the idea of blue water, pick your first leg to be something other than the longest land to land distance on the planet. Good time to shake things down.
12. If your spouse is not prepared to manage the vessel all by herself if you fall off, break a leg, have a heart attack or jump off the boat clutching the ship's clock, then you being very irresponsible. Take the time to train her so she doesn't have the fear of something happening to you adding to whatever else she doesn't like about cruising.
13. Only step off your boat when you have to step up into a life raft, which you have to carry, and which has to be inspected and which you and your wife should know how to deploy because you have practiced.

From another sailor, similarly:
1. Don't leave with sick kids on medication
2. Have some prior offshore experience
3. Know how you and your spouse will handle stressful situations
4. Have some prior foul weather experience...
5. Know how to repair one's equipment and have the stuff onboard to do so when the time comes.
6. Bring jerry cans of extra fuel and water.
7. Take sea sick medication before you get sick, not.... 4 days later.
8. Purchase a genuine aluminum whisker pole... not scavenged bamboo.
9. Don't have a set timetable in order to meet unrealistic personal goals.

From the above, other sailor's comments and the blog posts themselves I have gleaned that:
1. Husband cut up the primary fuel tank and reduced the capacity of fuel for some reason and made other alterations to the boat that could've comprised it. He also lacked the equipment to reduce risk of an event such as the one that occurred or to deal with emergencies.
2. They claimed the baby was "cleared" for travel but they may not be telling the truth and/or are exaggerating what the doctor stated and/or weren't sufficiently prepared for a recurrence of the problem.
3. They did not have efficient/proper sanitation on the boat.
4. The boat was prone to taking on water.
5. Wife could not sail the boat really. But, according to their blog posts, the boat needed to be manned by someone or a watch kept, 24 hours per day. How is that possible with two children, only one person who can sail and only two adults total? When do they sleep? And what if the husband died or became incapacitated? How would the wife have gotten the kids and herself to safety?
6. The wife hated it and did not have sea legs. She complained non-stop. She was prone to seasickness. It was brutal for her.
7. They lived on the boat in a marina. The bulk of their cruising/sailing experience was not in the open ocean. They actually had very little experience in the open ocean.
8. They jimmy rigged safety measures for the kids. This is detailed on the blog. They didn't pre-plan how to secure two small children in rough seas and had to improvise when it occurred and their kids were being flung all over the place.

To me, the above shows that these people were too inexperienced, ill equipped and unprepared for such a trip. From other comments I've read all over the place, the husband had set unrealistic goals for this trip and that's why they did what they did with what they had- ego.

That's fine for two adults who can choose for themselves. But when they take babies along, that's negligence.

bbm
This is just a damn fine post.

 

[1&2&3]

Thanks gitana1 for an excellent post!

It points out actual facts of what was wrong with their planning of this crazy trip! Eric was determined to fulfill his dream regardless of the fact he was the only one who could sail the boat, his wife stayed seasick, and he had two babies on board.

 

[CHERIE.T]

You don't need only facts.
The opinions posted by the parents imoo said plenty.

 

[Morag]

Cruising with babies sucks.

When they are really little you can just lay them down and sandwich them between blankets like a hot dog, but once they start wanting to sit and crawl, and the boat is bumping and you feel drowsy from Bonine or a little bit seasick and you are just holding a baby in your arms or in a baby carrier or they are stuck in a seat or in a berth while you are underway, or dealing with their older sibling, or trying to pee, or trying to cook, or trying to do ANYTHING…..yes, it’s a run on sentence, but FOR ME, I have not enjoyed sailing with little kids. I think 3 years old and up may be the magic number for leaving to go cruising with kids.

 

[borndem]

:goodpost:

I'm pretty good at separating emotion from fact, even when the facts cause emotion in me. It's my job. So here are some problems with this couple that point to extreme negligence. These came from the Rebel Heart blog posts, that I copied from other sailors (who had compiled them):

>>> respectfully snipped by borndem <<<

That's fine for two adults who can choose for themselves. But when they take babies along, that's negligence.

:star1: Very well said, gitana. Impartial, factual and I agree with your and the other folks' conclusions 100%. :thumb:




:justice:

 

[Snoods]

I'm pretty good at separating emotion from fact, even when the facts cause emotion in me. It's my job. So here are some problems with this couple that point to extreme negligence. These came from the Rebel Heart blog posts, that I copied from other sailors (who had compiled them):

To me, the above shows that these people were too inexperienced, ill equipped and unprepared for such a trip. From other comments I've read all over the place, the husband had set unrealistic goals for this trip and that's why they did what they did with what they had- ego.

That's fine for two adults who can choose for themselves. But when they take babies along, that's negligence.

RSBM Damn good post! Exactly what I was going to say almost word for word in my next post but you beat me to it...

 

[Snoods]

Have any of you ever heard of a small child taking three antibiotics simultaneously that wasn't seriously ill? Easy for them to say now that they were cleared by a doctor to travel, but would any doctor really clear two very small, ill children to sail away in the sunset for ports unknown?

I was in the hospital for almost two months with a burst appendix and a stomach full of infection and still only had TWO antibiotics through IV. I just don't believe that those very sick babies were cleared by any doctor to sail.

 

[Lilibet]

They are back in San Diego staying with friends until the apartment they've rented is available the middle of May.

http://www.therebelheart.com/charlottes-blog/2014/4/25/state-of-flux.html

 

[MyBelle]

They are back in San Diego staying with friends until the apartment they've rented is available the middle of May.

http://www.therebelheart.com/charlottes-blog/2014/4/25/state-of-flux.html

I still have concern for the children. There is no excuse for forcing the children to continue to sleep in such uncomfortable conditions yet she does it and posts it for the world to see.

 

[Snoods]

They are back in San Diego staying with friends until the apartment they've rented is available the middle of May.

http://www.therebelheart.com/charlottes-blog/2014/4/25/state-of-flux.html

No words for those two. We lost our boat! We lost our DREAMS and TRAJECTORY! They should be grateful their daughters are alive.

They never expected to find themselves in such a situation? Really? I would think that anyone who intentionally put themselves in the situation of galavanting around the ocean with two very ill toddlers and no crew in a less than seaworthy boat would think that MAYBE, just MAYBE, such a thing could happen.

And another thing, responsible adults can purchase something called insurance. You can insure your car, home, apartment, or your life. Shoot, you can even get insurance for your pets. But sailing across an ocean it never occurred to them that they could get into trouble? Or that they should insure their "home, dreams, and trajectory?"

Yet they still feel they did nothing wrong and we should all feel sorry for them. And you know what? I WOULD feel sorry for them if they weren't such entitled, arrogant, irresponsible, and the world owes them kind of people.

Chase your dreams but be able to afford them and don't endanger your children or other people. If you want to run with the big dogs you can't pee like a puppy.

GROW UP

Had to add the irony isn't lost on me that I said I had no words for those two and then proceeded to have a LOT of words for them lol

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

I still have concern for the children. There is no excuse for forcing the children to continue to sleep in such uncomfortable conditions yet she does it and posts it for the world to see.

That blog entry annoys me to no end....it sounds like nothing but a sympathy ploy for money. tugging at the public's heart strings, expecting everyone to rally around them with contributions. Maybe I'm jaded and cynical but I sure am suspicious of their motives in all of this.