Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 11/3/14 Hearing - Part 2

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During the trial, the camera was often on Maria & JA. And, wasn't there some problem with Maria and the jail?

Plus Maria knows the rules. She should not be facing the camera which she looks up and clearly knows it is pointing at them. If she is doing anything other than chatting with Jodi she should turn her chair around with her back to the camera and talk to Jodi privately. She has done this before during the trial with no issues. jmo
 
So, I obviously missed a few things... are we in limbo at this point? Is there no trial until next week? What's going on? I can not believe how our legal system allows CONVICTED killers like JA to still have so many "rights". It just appears to cater to a convicted killer.

I continue to feel like many times our justice system allows for a lot of "manipulation", and JA certainly excels in that area. Stalling, allows for more issues with jurors, and I feel like even the brace on her arm, is just a tactic to psychologically manipulate some juror to see her as a victim.
 
Well, Miss Arias with all of your rights to litigate issues, has it entered your consciousness that someone else might have rights too? How about J. Q. Public? When you seek to abridge the freedom of the press, guaranteed in Amendment I to the US Constitution, who else might be an interested party? Why, J.Q., of course, to whom the press reports! The press doesn't write to sling ink at one another, they gather the news to inform us. They are, in The People of the State of Arizona, ably represented by the media attorneys. And then, Miss Arias, litigator of issues, there is J.Q. considered apart. Amendment VI is pregnant with the concept of confrontation and it addresses and grants you "the right to a speedy and public trial". You put your life on the line and you take your choice. Confrontation contemplates interface. It is not you, staring into your metal mirror. It is you versus the people of the State of Arizona and the process due you is that an impartial jury will weigh the facts put forth by either side in this criminal prosecution and make a determination as to your sentence for your fully adjudicated crime. The public has the right to observe the whole of the case put forth in their name and in their behalf and to observe your response to it. I assure you, Miss litigator of issues, we are bending every effort to insure that this happens.
 
According to AZLawyer, she isn't even convicted! She will only be 'convicted' AFTER sentencing? Am I understanding that correctly?
 
During the trial, the camera was often on Maria & JA. And, wasn't there some problem with Maria and the jail?
Maria likes to smuggle things on behalf of the convict. She was banned from the jail briefly this summer because she got caught smuggling some of the convict's fartwork (pinwheel drawing) out of the jail. Oh and there's video of her 'appearing' to sneak a piece of paper to or from the convict's mom, during the guilt phase last year, but I can't find it now. The reason the camera is trained on her is because she is a sneak and needs to be watched. Someone else asked who is paying MDLR and I believe it is the State of Arizona. If I were an Arizona taxpayer, I would be upset that this mitigation 'specialist' is more concerned with helping out the convict with her art sales and such than she is with finding any mitigating factors for her client. I think she is incredibly unprofessional.
 
Plus Maria knows the rules. She should not be facing the camera which she looks up and clearly knows it is pointing at them. If she is doing anything other than chatting with Jodi she should turn her chair around with her back to the camera and talk to Jodi privately. She has done this before during the trial with no issues. jmo

I vote that it was deliberate, part of Nurmi's multi-faceted campaign to manufacture the very problem he claims to be fighting.
 
I vote that it was deliberate, part of Nurmi's multi-faceted campaign to manufacture the very problem he claims to be fighting.

I agree, and upsets me that it continues to work; deflection has been their greatest defense, and Judge/legal system continues to allow it...SUPER FRUSTRATING
 
As if I didn't hate her enough. Kicking a pet to death is just, no words.

There was something about a cat that she was cat sitting and she left it in a room and starved it or something like that. Why be surprised? If you have no empathy or feelings for people I wouldn't think you would have them for animals unless it's yourself. And these are only the ones we have heard about. There are probably more.
 
Nurmi and Wilmont fought for self defense and not mentally ill, then in Nurmi's closing he said maybe she just snapped, and now the mentally ill girl for this part.

BBM:

Snapped is a term I do not believe in. First of all; I believe those dark thoughts of killing had been building up over time. I just don't believe a person can 'snap' and brutally murder someone all of a sudden. They either have the propensity or capability toward murder or they don't.

There are untold numbers of women (and men) who are abused daily and they do not resort to murder. Besides, I do not believe CMJA was abused by Travis. SHE was the abuser. 'Snapped' is a misnomer and a made-up term for something a person was evil enough to do in the first place, IMO.

I'm sick and tired of mental illness being used in place of just plain evil.

*Not directed at you, ILikeToBendPages. I just wanted to say how I felt about 'snapped'.

:moo:
 
I vote that it was deliberate, part of Nurmi's multi-faceted campaign to manufacture the very problem he claims to be fighting.
This sums up the entire defense strategy perfectly. :clap:
 
BBM:

Snapped is a term I do not believe in. First of all; I believe those dark thoughts of killing had been building up over time. I just don't believe a person can 'snap' and brutally murder someone all of a sudden. They either have the propensity or capability toward murder or they don't.

There are untold numbers of women (and men) who are abused daily and they do not resort to murder. Besides, I do not believe CMJA was abused by Travis. SHE was the abuser. 'Snapped' is a misnomer and a made-up term for something a person was evil enough to do in the first place, IMO.

I'm sick and tired of mental illness being used in place of just plain evil.

*Not directed at you, ILikeToBendPages. I just wanted to say how I felt about 'snapped'.

:moo:

This kind of stuff always makes me wonder about 'genetics' and how there has been studies of a "Warrior Gene" that makes some more likely to kill... not that this has anything to do with JA... I am just always curious about how when people "mate" what they create, and if mutation of genes can create killers, pedophiles, etc.... they can already determine through genetic testing how pre-disposed you are to certain cancers. I wonder if someday people will have genetic testing done before they get marriage certificates, or decide to have children.... kind of off topic, just talking out loud
 
Another FYI. Kirk Nurmi's peers in the National Trial Attys Association rate him as one of the top 100 trial attys in the entire country.

He's not unaware of case law or anything else. The man has a strategy.
 
According to AZLawyer, she isn't even convicted! She will only be 'convicted' AFTER sentencing? Am I understanding that correctly?

Not an attorney but I believe she was judged by a jury of her peers to be guilty of the crime of murder in the 1st degree, jury also finding extreme cruelty. At the termination of this retrial of the penalty stage Jodi will be sentenced and convicted of the crime of murder in the first degree and sentenced accordingly. So she is guilty, just not sentenced yet. Maybe one of the attorneys can explain it in better terms. jmo
 
There was something about a cat that she was cat sitting and she left it in a room and starved it or something like that. Why be surprised? If you have no empathy or feelings for people I wouldn't think you would have them for animals unless it's yourself. And these are only the ones we have heard about. There are probably more.

I remember that story. It was a guest on a Dr. Drew show:
VERONICA: Boy, when I went to retrieve the cat after two weeks. I said, what do you mean, retrieve the cat after two weeks to retrieve the cat? She said, well, I left it in a room with enough food and water. I said, for two weeks?

ZION LOVINGIER: She was into Wicca and she was very into energies and positive energy, and she was into a lot of self-help books.

I had a couple conversations, I remember, with her about her studies in Wicca.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

PINSKY: Wiccan and energies, Lisa --

BLOOM: And leaving the cat for two weeks? Remember we were just talking about cats and the lack of empathy?

PINSKY: Yes.

BLOOM: I mean, who leaves a cat alone for two weeks? With food and water, but come on.

PINSKY: And she told veronica the cat was so sick -- stressed, that she was surprised -- Jodi was saying she didn`t feel bad and thought maybe she should.

BLOOM: That`s very telling.

PINSKY: Very telling.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1301/21/ddhln.01.html
 
As we have seen other cases where judges use their power to threaten an attorney with contempt, we have not seen the judge use her power to control him. There were numerous times the judge should have threatened Nurmi with contempt or theaten to report him to the attorney oversight board.

JSS is not using her power effectively as a judge to control him or her courtroom. The article has this part...

" tactics aimed at creating errors on purpose should be prohibited and that judges should report such actions to attorneys’ ethical oversight boards."

I'm generally okay with the judge not threatening nurmi with contempt, in open court. He would have on the record, on audio tape, on video (not to mention photocopied tweets, photocopied entries from numerous online blogs, comprehensive list of every single print or television media that mentioned Arias in any way) to then use on one if his many "I don't like your decision so I'm taking it to a higher court, so there", complete with a dozen 10 page motions addressing not just the issue at hand but including EVERY SINGLE gripe he has had since before he was even on the defense team, rehashing everything ad nauseum.

I so agree with you that she has not, in my opinion and from my completely non legal background, used her authority to control him. He has been an insistent bull charging to the sidebar, head down ready to ram his words down the judge's throat. He's been a bully to the court and to Martinez. He's mocked state witnesses, actually laughing at them (Dr. DeMarte comes instantly to mind).

He's (and I include Wilmott in this, just as much) have made egregious accusations against Travis, with absolutely no corroboration except that from his lying client. And as I've said often, I will never, ever, ever believe that he and Wilmott believe the garbage they are spewing for their client. Although I have had derogatory remarks and even worse thoughts about that team, I do not believe they are stupid, and one would have to be stupid to fall for Arias' web of malicious, every changing, laughably outrageous detailed account: her turning her head SW while her body faced north, 17 inches from the bathtub, while lunged upon with her left arm at a 64 degree angle, her right arm extended elbow bent 11 inches above her head while making a 3/4 westerly rotation of her lower body, with all of Travis' weight on her, but with miraculous speed and agile manipulation (although she wasn't "thinking" at that point, just reacting to this nightmarish and death defying danger)...... and ludicrous, made up detail after ridiculous detail.......I don't believe Nurmi/Willmott believe her garbage, despicable stories, yet they perpetuate them every freaking day, as often as possible, uttering every salacious word, every sex act, every stinking lie.

As much as I have screamed at my TV/computer at the defense, and at the judge for " allowing" the flying manure feet, I have come to understand that unless the state objects, the judge isn't going to say anything. However, she could in my opinion, use forceful words and recommendations to control his obnoxious recitation. I don't need to give any of the thousands of examples where the defense has acted, in court, like recalcitrant children. Why hasn't the judge admonished any of it: the uninvited races to the sidebar, the open arguing with the judge's rulings, the bizarre and uncooperative (not to mention blatantly dishonest) witness testimony. Surely this judge could exert control, without the state having to ask for it, and such control that might just tick Nurmi/Willmott off........but grow the heck up!

I've never had a job where I was the sole person responsible for my actions, my words, my decisions, my relationships and attitudes. Thankfully I've not had to be admonished for much, but that's only because I am exemplary (OH GOODNESS, THAT WAS HILARIOUS TO WRITE!!!). I have been told I should pursue another direction, try another tactic, spiff up my knowledge and attend workshops and seminars. During all my years as a teacher, the staff was almost always encouraging, helpful, realistic in goals. But every teacher had to, out of not just respect but out of wanting to keep the atmosphere friendly and productive, give special consideration to ALL support staff because we could only do our job well with their help. Then there were the bosses. A whole different story, learning early on that to be successful you have to choose your battles and always, always, always be on your best behavior when supervisors were around. I look at the courtroom similarly, although perhaps that's not judicially correct. To me, JSS is the courtroom boss. She has the right, the duty and the responsibility to uphold the law, all the time, and to expect counsel to do the same, all the time.

Someone posted many pages ago when we were discussing who was more at fault, the judge who IMO is woefully falling down on the judge duties, or Nurmi and team for using her to their advantage. The point was made that if a classroom is out of control, you can't blame the students. Yes they may be obnoxious, they may be 6' tall bullies, they may have no parental support, they may be mentally or physically challenged. But that's where the teacher comes in, the one to set the emotional , physical, and educational climate for every single student, to show preference for no one despite their needs or poopheadedness. The teacher will have to get stern, will make students mad and worry the rest of the day knowing the 6'5" logger father of the 6' bully will charge in after school and try to intimidate the teacher, threaten to call the principal, the superintendent, and even write a letter to the school board. And to that dad I listened, as calmly as possible explained my position (that stealing a 3rd graders crutches, throwing them out the window, slapping that child on the back of the head hard enough to cause him to fall, calling him unimaginable cruel names, before refusing to leave the building during a fire drill, calling me names I had not heard before) ......and then handed him the business card for all district personnel and told him to feel free to contact anyone and would you like to use my phone right now?

The boss, in my case other school personnel, has a job to insure each employee works their hardest, within the scope of all the laws, federal and state, school district policies, adheres to mandated curriculum, maintains a standard of professional conduct at all times that will bring swift recourse should this not be followed. The boss in the courtroom, IMO, is the judge. She has the right to insist on courtroom decorum, one immediate fault I have observed, both in the gallery, at the defense table, and through witness testimony. It is her job, again IMO, to follow judicial law, to make lawful and appropriate decisions and to insist and expect the same from the attorneys. Her flip-flopping indecision is startling. Her obvious and oft used cone of silence/secrecy is disturbing on so many levels. Although a good teacher adapts her teaching to the needs of all students, providing additional instruction and practice to students needing that, it doesn't mean she tells the rest of the class, all the support personnel and parents waiting for their kids to go out in the hall and wait. She learns how to do it all! PFFFFFT on the judge for giving the time management challenged Nurmi DAYS OFF from a trial already terribly bogged down with delays to pen his newest complaint/motion. Pooey on her for believing she can set aside the constitution for any reason at all, regardless of any of the hundred reasons Nurmi had for demanding super secret testimony. Poo poo on her for taking a huge risk losing more jury members by dragging the trial on long past the Christmas holidays, something that if they don't already know officially from the judge they must be getting an inkling of after being given an entire week off after only a few days of testimony. Boo to the judge for not stepping in to even politely admonish combative witnesses. I don't see why it requires Martinez to say something before the judge will intervene. Again, it's her courtroom. A witness in her courtroom is deceptive, refusing to answer, looking to defense counsel for hints and cues. Her courtroom. (The classroom analogy again: when a speaker, professional, amateur, volunteer parent, or school personnel would come to my class, the rules still applied. A student disrespecting or being disruptive was dealt with. I would wait just long enough to see if the speaker wanted to handle it his/her own way without me butting in, but I wouldn't wait long because despite who was speaking to the class the expectations of student behavior ruled. Immediately, swiftly, and fairly. I didn't wait for the speaker to ask me after trying himself a half dozen times to control the class. I spoke up, and firmly.)

So I apologize for the rant, and for the rushed and unedited rambling nature of my rant.
 
Another FYI. Kirk Nurmi's peers in the National Trial Attys Association rate him as one of the top 100 trial attys in the entire country.

He's not unaware of case law or anything else. The man has a strategy.

I have to believe Juan would be able to anticipate some of this. I just wonder if he legally can't get around it, or why he isn't being more aggressive at having 'challenges' that would squash some of these issues with witnesses, etc.

Even the fact with media, why not put more challenges out there about how much Jodi and her parents themselves, have used the media... maybe he has his own game plan; I just feel like he could attack some of these issues more strongly.
 
During the police interrogation, Jodi admitted to kicking a dog. She downplayed the incident but most of us think it was a very violent kick to the dog. The dog disappeared after that day and a lot of us speculate she may have killed the dog with that kick or multiple kicks. She may have took the dog away and buried him and then claimed he ran off after being kicked.

JA is evil.

I think it may have been her own family pet if i am not mistaken. The interview with the police is available as I have seen this part. Just dont have a link handy.

I am so glad she did not stab Travis dog to death. I bet it crossed her mind after she stabbed Travis to death.

Juan, may even know a lot more about that subject than we are aware of....... I think he found out it was more than kicking a dog and that is why he wanted to ask AVL about JA torturing pets.

IMO
 
There was something about a cat that she was cat sitting and she left it in a room and starved it or something like that. Why be surprised? If you have no empathy or feelings for people I wouldn't think you would have them for animals unless it's yourself. And these are only the ones we have heard about. There are probably more.
Yes! If I remember correctly, Jodi was working as a waitress and agreed to care for a co-worker's cat while the co-worker was away on a trip. She locked it up in a room and forgot about it. I don't remember the amount of time that was, but the cat was retrieved by owner and having convulsions or seizures. The last word I remember was that the cat was taken to a vet and was recovering. So far the count is: neglected/starved a cat, severely kicked a dog, hit her brother (in the head?) with a baseball bat, tyrannical outbursts directed at her mother, and slashed/ stabbed/ shot a man. What an accomplishment for someone so young.
 
Regarding the meaning of the term "snapped"...

I always considered that to mean something happened that caused a quick reaction...a heat of the moment response to a situation, IMO. It has nothing to do with mental illness--either a person is mentally ill or they are not.

Nurmi wanted the first jury to consider a heat of the moment scenario so they would not vote for first degree murder. He instructed that jury that "if Jodi Arias is guilty of anything it is manslaughter." The mentally ill aspect came about after she was found guilty of murder. I have no doubt Nurmi wanted to use mental illness in his closing for guilt phase, and also no doubt the killer said no way. But once convicted it becomes necessary to pull out a few more stops. Even before the penalty phase retrial started Nurmi was uttering things about how "we do not execute the mentally ill." That sounds like a really good argument, because it is! But whether he believes her to be mentally ill or not, it was him laying the groundwork for the retrial, IMO. Killer does not like it and wishes it could be another way but realizes that she could die if she refuses to be a bit more flexible. IMO
 
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