Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 2/13 thru 2/18 - Break

[ElleElle]

I am no fan of JSS, but about that appeal thing. If JA gets the DP she will exercise all her rights to appeal, and at some point she'll file for HC relief with the 9th Circuit of Appeals.

The 9th Circuit as a whole is actively anti-DP. The Supreme Court has chastised the 9th on numerous occasions for what amounts to twisting the law in pursuit of an agenda. The 9th overturns DP convictions/sentences, the Supreme Court rebukes the 9th.

Late Dec 2014 the 9th struck again, in Mann v Ryan. Here's the thing. Defendant Mann received a fair trial. After the verdict, his attorney received a continuance to put a mitigation case together. During the sentencing phase Mann's attorney did present and argue a list of mitigators. Mann received the DP.

Every AZ court upheld the verdict and sentence. Enter the 9th. The 9th granted relief based on ineffective counsel during sentencing. The notion of ineffective counsel was based on Mann's attorney not bringing in a piece of new evidence during sentencing (hadn't been introduced in guilt phase).

AZ State courts argued that the evidence would not have changed the sentence imposed. If I understand correctly, the 9th seized on that single phrase to argue that the State courts had applied an incorrect standard of proof. The 9th thus asserted the State had applied an impermissible "more likely than not" standard rather than the correct Strickland standard of "reasonable probability" in deciding what difference the new evidence might have made in sentencing.

In essense, the 9th accepted the defendant's absurd claim of ineffective counsel based on a purposeful misreading of AZ State court decisions, and despite the fact Mann's attorney had in fact presented a full mitigation case.

If she gets the DP, maybe JA's appeals will go absolutely nowhere. If JSS is looking westward to San Fran, though, it sounds like no amount of caution would be excessive.

ITA. From the child *advertiser censored* to the "prosecuterial misconduct" allegations, to the computer fiasco, to the "La Cuaracha" incident, JSS has alot of patience to put up with this. In the end, it may well be worth it.

 

[Frigga]

oh i hear you. my friend and i (we've followed from the beginning) have said this many times. If she gets LWOP she effectively goes away. the DP guarantees one appeal, and that is one too many in my book. she will retain the spotlight until every conceivable option runs out, and as we know from experience, that could take up to 20 years.

I've been wavering back and forth for some time now, and i've strongly felt that LWOP would be best for many reason, especially for the Alexander's sanity.

btw, do you have that profiler link handy? when it was posted the other day, i was on my phone and forgot about watching it

Courtesy of TexMex:

http://thelip.tv/episode/jodi-arias-pleads-for-life/

 

[Frigga]

I think it's unfair to presume that the Alexander family "can't see the forest through the trees"....they are the ones living this. They know a lot more about this case than anyone here. JM knows what he is doing. Of all the reasons hoping JA doesn't receive the DP....saying the Alexanders don't know what they're asking for is really insensitive.

Amster, that is a valid point, and I certainly don't mean to be insensitive or presumptuous, I apologize.

They know what she deserves and what they want for her and they want it to be over- I know that for certain. I am sorry for that part of my post, you are absolutely correct.

 

[Frigga]

I wish I had,it would make this a little worthwhile.

My 6 year old had sickness,4 year old had diarreah and lucky me I've had both...yuck! [emoji40]

Hope I feel better by Wednesday,don't want to let myself down and miss a day of trial after all this time

Josie, I am so sorry for you and your little girl. The flu is such a bummer and miserable- poor thing. Feel better soon. Do you know what strain of flu it is? Is it soon enough to do Tamiflu, it really does help! Get better soon! XO

 

[ElleElle]

Good point about those trips being some more of JAs lies and embellishments. Seems like if they were, it could be proven with his credit card statements. They drove everywhere. Even if she could get by with saying he paid cash for gas/food, hotels require credit cards as a back up.

JA gives all kinds of detail not germane to stall testimony, but none for the trips she and Travis supposedly took. Nothing like the cute little hotel/cafe and what was ordered. No details of conversations during the hours in the car or specifics of the sites they supposedly visited. No other Mormon couples they ran into and had interesting conversations.

I always thought that was weird, but assumed it was just ME.

JA wrote a check to TA for $699. I always thought that was to pay her share of the trips.

 

[AZlawyer]

I just popped in and have only looked at this page so far, but wanted to point out that the "psychopathic deviance" scale on the MMPI is not the same as "psychopath." Dr. DeMarte certainly would not and could not have said in court that JA was a psychopath based on her score on that scale. She could probably have said more about that score if she had diagnosed JA with antisocial personality disorder, because that score would support her diagnosis in that case, but obviously she did not feel that JA met all the diagnostic criteria for antisocial personality disorder.

I believe it is fairly common for people in jail facing serious charges to score high on the psychopathic deviance scale BTW, because there are a lot of questions on there about conflicts with authority, and being arrested and tried for, e.g., first-degree murder is a pretty big conflict with authority.

 

[AZlawyer]

Snipped

I think its interesting that DeMarte was able to say Marissa devault is a psychopath in open court, but could not or would not say that about JA, when she is clearly one.

I'm wondering if JSS deemed it too prejudicial, like many other things, and it was kept out.

ETA nevermind. Curious in Indiana already answered why it was kept out. I thought her score for psychopathic deviancy was high, but honestly, that part of the trial is a blur to me.

Her score for psychopathic deviance was high. DeMarte simply did not diagnose JA with antisocial personality disorder with psychopathic tendencies, as she apparently did with Devault. A high score on the psychopathic deviance scale is not the same as a diagnosis of anything.

I can promise you that the diagnosis was not made but kept out as being too prejudicial. That's not what "prejudicial" means.

 

[Val1]

GEEVEE Do you have a link to those photos? I would love to see which six you say we're photoshopped!
I am a firm believer that most of their photos were altered.

Iirc, these were the ones geevee was referencing:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/27308599@N07/

 

[ElleElle]

She gives details in her journals fwiw. For example they ate lamb testicles on one trip

I think if the trips were fabrications she made up and manipulated via photoshop that Juan would have busted her on it.
IMO the trips were one way Travis could sleep with her without being seen around Mesa.

Yes, and not everything is fabricated. I am 100% certain the trip photos are not photo shopped. Things seemed OK between them up until before he sent packing back to Yreka.

 

[wendiesan]

Frigga, iirc, Dr DeMarte could not say in court Jodi is a psychopath because her tests scores were too low for psychopathy. Between the defense mudding the waters and Juan bringing in Dworkin, I am certain the jury will vote for life in prison, not the dp. However, I cannot imagine any topnotch litigators fighting too hard to help Jodi avoid the dp once they have to deal with her. It's possible they won't have much contact at all with Jodi and their only concern will be saving a life from the dp. If that's the case then yeah, they may win. But I still believe Juan will fight to the end to send her to death row. She really is a stalker, an obsessive monster and a cruel cold blooded killer. She will kill again if anyone crosses her. I don't think that killing bothered her at all. I think she is rather proud. She is certainly a psychopath.
IMO, the 9th circuit has always had a reputation for stupidity in all areas. Hope I don't offend anyone but it's true.

That is what I recall Dr. D saying as well. However, JA received books about domestic violence from the DT experts, IIRC, which probably gave her information which she used to impugn Travis's character while making herself seem more like a DV victim. It isn't beyond belief that she might have similarly received information which would allow her to skew the results of tests designed to reveal psychopathy in a subject. She seems to be a psychopath to me as a layman, and I could get away with referring to JA as a psychopath.

Dr. D, on the other hand, could not do so. Her position as an expert witness requires that she be consistent in the information she gives to the court. If she wavered and described JA as a psychopath, the DT could discredit her since they know the scores of those tests as well as JM or Dr. D do. If the test results do not give Dr. D the back up for such a designation, the best she can do, IMO, is describe JA's actions and clearly state that her BPD is a condition that may be a mental illness or personality disorder but is not legal insanity, that it is not an excuse for murder. She has defended Travis Alexander. Her testimony, I believe, has given the jury the grounds to see JA as a psychopathic remorseless killer even without attaching the name "psychopath".

 

[elementary]

Frigga, iirc, Dr DeMarte could not say in court Jodi is a psychopath because her tests scores were too low for psychopathy. Between the defense mudding the waters and Juan bringing in Dworkin, I am certain the jury will vote for life in prison, not the dp. However, I cannot imagine any topnotch litigators fighting too hard to help Jodi avoid the dp once they have to deal with her. It's possible they won't have much contact at all with Jodi and their only concern will be saving a life from the dp. If that's the case then yeah, they may win. But I still believe Juan will fight to the end to send her to death row. She really is a stalker, an obsessive monster and a cruel cold blooded killer. She will kill again if anyone crosses her. I don't think that killing bothered her at all. I think she is rather proud. She is certainly a psychopath.
IMO, the 9th circuit has always had a reputation for stupidity in all areas. Hope I don't offend anyone but it's true.

How do we know this?

And, as I recall, she scored high on psychopathic deviance. DeMarte was cut off by Juan when she began to address it. Nor did we see all of her scores nor were we apprised of other diagnoses, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[Hope4More]

You needn't worry. She'll get appeals for years no matter what, but she'll remain out of public view (thankfully) because the appeals just get argued by lawyers before COA or SC justices in very brief sessions. It's not a public spectacle like jury trials are.

The only way she'd be out in public again is if her verdict was overturned and a new trial ordered. The defense has been grasping at straws for that all along, but the good side of all the defense time-wasting is that they've left no stone unturned and there's nothing of any substance left to complain about. They may have a slim argument here or there about the DP but not about the original guilty verdict.

If she gets the DP the 9th Circuit will look for any excuse to overturn the sentence, but the conviction seems rock solid.

Completely agree about the verdict being solid. Bottom line, she'll be moving soon to the last place she'll ever live.

 

[TexMex]

Courtesy of TexMex:

http://thelip.tv/episode/jodi-arias-pleads-for-life/

He's got Jodi's number. I saw another video where the same guy thinks that Juan was "manipulated" by Jodi during the cross. I don't think she actually got to Juan. I think he once and awhile let her think she was in control then would slam her. I think he manipulated the manipulator. I think on some level Juan enjoyed sparring with this verbose borderline. But he never forgot who she was or what she did to Travis

 

[LaLaw2000]

I can't imagine staying with people I'd just met, having sex in their house, knowing that they had arranged separate rooms to prevent that.

After being married for years I couldn't have sex in my own home when my parents were there to visit.

I don't think it happened, but if JA could make the Hughes believe it did, it would have driven a wedge in their relationship with TA. Of course JA would love that.

I do not believe half of what Jodi says concerning she and Travis' sexual encounters. The Hughes were Travis' dear friends and I do not think he would disrespect them to the point of having forbidden sex in their home. Jodi has no morals, but Travis did except for some lapses in judgment instigated by Jodi. I also do not believe the incident Jodi speaks of as meeting Travis at a motel beside a truck stop. Well, she may have been there with someone else, but I seriously doubt Travis was.

I believe there was so much going on between she and Gus. Jodi stayed with Gus for two days in his motor home? You'd better be up close and personal friends to stay in such a small space with someone else. Jodi played that ugly, despicable little man. They did deserve each other, though.

I'm hanging in here with this never ending penalty phase because I want to see Jodi carted off to Perryville. I want to see her sit isolated on death row. That's what she deserves, IMO.

Sorry. Didn't mean to rant but Jodi has that effect on me.

MOO

 

[garthmax]

My belief is that if CMJA does not get up an show a decent allocation, unlike she did during the first trial, she will probably received the DP. I am looking forward to the jury questions when the two not a Dr. shows back up. I want someone just to watch the jury during that time. Will Ziggy be there?

 

[LaLaw2000]

BBM ~

Photoshop? Could have been. Pic looks funny to me.

 

[BritsKate]

Just to clarify a few bits:

DeMarte testified DeVault was antisocial, not a psychopath. Whether or not they're one in the same is really a huge matter of debate. Psychopathy isn't recognized by the ICD or DSM V as a mental health disease or disorder. Dr. Robert Hare, the predominant authority on psychopathy, states while most psychopaths would test high for antisocial personality disorder, not all antisocials would or do test high for psychopathy.

I personally believe a psychopath to often be a blend of the recognized disorders. I 'see' evidence of narcissistic and antisocial personality disorders in Jodi without a doubt - if I stretch, I can see how borderline fits in. I just think she's a lot less borderline than she is narcissistic. This is just my opinion based on personal experience. Undoubtedly, she's a psychopath - it's really just a question of what recognized disorders are at play that contribute to her psychopathy. (FTR, I don't believe DeVault is though she clearly is antisocial...or, rather, nothing near the level of psychopathy Jodi is at. Jodi is off the charts psychopathic.)

Psychopath deviate (as part of the MMPI scales) has nothing to do with psychopathy itself. It's basically a way of measuring how the patient responds to rules; their necessity for control, etc.

While the MMPI is based on self-reporting and could be skewed, I believe it's written in such a way that malingering would be evident, if memory serves. With all diagnoses of cluster B personality disorders, it's often a 'best fit' approach...cluster B's are very often comorbid which can make diagnosis difficult.

As I've stated, for so many reasons, I really hate that Jodi is being equated to someone 'just' borderline because, if she truly is just borderline, she's incredibly atypical.

JMO and FWIW

 

[bettybaby00]

Courtesy of TexMex:

http://thelip.tv/episode/jodi-arias-pleads-for-life/

Thank you!!!

 

[LaLaw2000]

I'm still trying to figure out her teeth. In pre-arrest photos, they looked fairly even, but ever since, they're quite uneven, with her two front teeth seeming far too large in comparison to her other teeth. Was she using some kind of dental prosthetic?

I think she was. I noticed that also. Everything is fake about Jodi, IMO.

 

[katydid23]

Just for my own mental health, I am deciding not to care whether she does get the DP or not. Either way, she is in jail FOREVER. She will never be free again. Ever. I would like her to be sentenced to DEATH, but if not, so be it. I will not take it as a defeat. She will still suffer forever. :jail: