Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 2/20 thru 2/23 - Break

[ElleElle]

I've been thinking one of the DTs strategies is to drag this out with the "experts" over and over again just to enrage Juan.

The more Juan becomes irate, the more they have for "prosecuterial misconduct". :facepalm:

 

[Dmacky]

Not really looking forward to hearing from Fonseca again. Here is a recap of her last testimony:

Defense expert, Dr. Micio Fonseca, was back on the witness stand, testifying that Arias was degraded and made to feel like a prostitute by the man she murdered, former boyfriend Travis Alexander.

Fonseca spent the morning going over text messages between Arias and Alexander.

But the real fireworks started when Fonseca was cross examined by prosecutor Juan Martinez.

"It was really intense and really heated," said court watcher Jen Wood, with Jen's Trial Diaries. "Dr. Fonseca really challenged Martinez, saying you're mischaracterizing everything I say, for every question he asked her."

Defense attorneys are trying to show that Arias was the victim of emotional abuse at the hands of her victim, ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander.



This part of the article was pretty funny though, looking back on it:


Jurors had returned Thursday after another surprise and random delay Monday.

Testimony came to an abrupt stop Monday afternoon when Superior Court Judge Sherry Stephens announced there had been an emergency situation, and she was sending the jury home until Thursday.


And in another twist, prosecutor Juan Martinez has filed a motion to have sanctions against Arias' attorneys.

The motion claims that one of the defense team's expert witnesses damaged a laptop computer that could be a key piece of evidence in the case.

The defense witness was expected to testify that he found thousands of pornographic images on Alexander's computer.

However, the prosecution's motion alleges that the computer was damaged so that the state's computer expert could not re-examine it.

The motion also claims that Arias' attorneys handed over computer files that belonged, "to an individual named Tony," that had nothing to do with the case.



Read more: http://www.kpho.com/story/27436641/...jurors-return-after-2-day-delay#ixzz3STP6etXq

Terms from Dr. Fonseca, that we are sure to hear again ~

1. unconventional sex expert (what the heck does that even mean)

2. texting after 11pm = deviant :giggle:

3. T-Dogg = alter ego :furious:

4. Shank for *advertiser censored* :giggle: (perhaps they didn't use that "word" 35 years ago)

5. Slime Highway (another term from 35 yrs. ago?)

6. "Dynamics of the relationship" X 300


All of the DT "experts" have 30-35 years experience. ONE of the problem's with this is they all seem to be still "stuck" in that same time warp of 35 years ago. None of them appear to have any knowledge with this century. MOO ~


Dr. Miccio-Fonseca is highly specialized in the area of sex disorders

http://www.npeiv.org/#!board-of-directors/c1wtd

 

[wenwe4]

I've been thinking one of the DTs strategies is to drag this out with the "experts" over and over again just to enrage Juan.

The more Juan becomes irate, the more they have for "prosecuterial misconduct". :facepalm:

The only time I ever questioned Juan (in the trial we could see) was when he dropped the camera. I thought that was a bit over the top. In retrospect I realized this camera was in evidence, had gone through a washer, was not useful to anyone except to Juan in that moment. He was able to demonstrate how he could drop a camera and although startling (sic?) it was not enough to enrage someone to attack or murder. (IMO)

 

[wenwe4]

The stark difference between Geff/MF and DeMarte - despite the theatrics - are that DeMarte stayed with the facts. She didn't try and "go behind" the words to find other meanings. She didn't make huge leaps from one data point to another - they were there or not, and she kept the facts very simple. She didn't appear to have any confirmatory bias. She backed up her thoughts with evidence, not "35 years of experience" that seemed to give credence (in their opinions) that the leaps were factual. If in fact there were data to back up these leaps, then it might be more believable. For instance, if they could cite numerous studies done that said proved "85% of all broken fingers for which no medical attention is sought are caused from DV perps" (not a real statistic btw)

 

[daisydomino]

I've been thinking one of the DTs strategies is to drag this out with the "experts" over and over again just to enrage Juan.

The more Juan becomes irate, the more they have for "prosecuterial misconduct". :facepalm:

Maybe. But I don't think he ever actually loses his temper. He's always in control, he just uses the yelling to knock the witnesses off their games. Then he throws them a little math calculation. Asks them to remember a small and unrelated detail about something to which they testified sometime in the past. That's his thing. I'm not sure he gets irate.

 

[daisydomino]

I get what you are saying Daisy, and agree to an extent, but I suspect that there are many out there who will see them as "representative" of the field itself and thus come away thinking psych as it relates to DV is just "psycho babble".

Yikes, I hope not though. There's nothing representative about anything in this trial except for BPD. There's nothing representative about Mormonism, computer forensics, psychology or even of a trial in this trial.

 

[grammieto5]

Hey everyone, well I've tried three times to read the secret testimony of the murderer, I just can't. It's all BS, with some added BS! I wonder if the murderer would have been up there for 18 days if she hadn't been forced to stop! Poor poor murderer, everyone loves her and everyone cheats on her. Is there anyone in her life who hasn't slapped/choked her?

Is fonseca up tomorrow? That photo of alv and forseca is creeeeepy! They have the exact same mouth! scary!!!

 

[Steve44]

yikes, i hope not though. There's nothing representative about anything in this trial except for bpd. There's nothing representative about mormonism, computer forensics, psychology or even of a trial in this trial.

lol......

 

[ShadyLady]

I get what you are saying Daisy, and agree to an extent, but I suspect that there are many out there who will see them as "representative" of the field itself and thus come away thinking psych as it relates to DV is just "psycho babble".

I agree with this. It's taken a LONG time to put DV on the map and educate the public's awareness. THESE types of "drs" or whatever they are undermines the perception of what DV is. This is just my opinion,having left a husband in 1989 due to physical abuse, and knowing what my options were back then. And knowing how DV was perceived. I was very embarrassed to have anyone know outside of a couple family members. People I worked with at large corporation never knew why I got divorced. It was all very hidden.

These hired guns and their propaganda and seminars, etc. have made a mockery of this issue.

They can't tell a who is a true victim, and that is scary. They are hacks. IMO

ADDED: on second thought. They do know what they are doing, and it's all about MAKING money, and establishing a subcategory as an "expert in Domestic Violence". All you have to do is pad your CVs and pay for and attend all their "conventions" and "seminars".

They no long have to "practice"....just make money with their conventions and non-profits, grants and charge $$$$$$ to appear in court. Gravy train....

IT'S a SCAM. JMO

It has to STOP.

 

[grammieto5]

I was just reading on the Brian Williams thread. The term being used by some for his lies is, "false memories". I wonder how long before the murderers expert witness start using "false memories" for the lies the murderer tells.

 

[Spellbound]

Spellbound, I think those comments come from the fact that of those on the first jury who spoke publicly, each said the one thing the 4 who couldn't be persuaded to vote for death had in common was that they were the older jurors. So it's more a statement of fact than it is a commentary on "oldsters" having groupthink about the DP. Perhaps the fact that they were older was coincidental to other things they had in common. Who knows?

Also, of those 4 "oldsters" who voted for life, 3 of them were men. With this new jury being younger and more female, it will be interesting to see what happens. I personally contend that women tend to judge JA more harshly than men (or maybe I should say men are more gullible in terms of buying her "woe is me" BS), so depending on who gets chosen for the final twelve, it could be much more about gender than age.

Thanks for your perspective! now I undertand how age related to the first jury, I had not considered that. I do think gender could be a big part.

 

[Val1]

You are absolutely correct. No Psych professional worth their salt would believe that JA is the victim of DV in this relationship. TA was clearly the victim of gaslighting, triagulation, full scale psychological abuse, and very likely some form of physical abuse (I have always wondered if the alleged incidents of abuse she claims were actually her perpetrating against TA) in this relationship (based on available info).

This is why I find ALV, Fons, and Geffner so very revolting and disturbing. These three have seriously undermined and made a mockery of the field of DV, as well as insulted and minimized victims of true DV IMO.

For those that don't agree, I would just like their opinions on how they would feel if the sexes were reversed in this case... ie. a guy that just won't take no for an answer, keeps showing up uninvited, crawls into the woman's bed in the middle of the night, knowing the woman is dating someone else(in fact interferes in the woman's dating life driving away his competitors), makes excuses to fall asleep at her house, shows up in the middle of the night to do her yardwork, take out her garbage, takes naked pics of the woman when it certainly looks like she is unaware(sleeping in bed, in the shower even knowing her shower time is her private time-think personal space)etc., when friends stand up for her and ask him to leave their home he not only ignores them but then walks further into the home and sits down in the kitchen amongst the children and just stares at them for another 15 or so minutes... and those are just off the top of my head.

 

[Nosey Parker]

I was just reading on the Brian Williams thread. The term being used by some for his lies is, "false memories". I wonder how long before the murderers expert witness start using "false memories" for the lies the murderer tells.

Ssssh!! :shush: We've given enough ideas away, grammie!

 

[MissHaley]

I was just reading on the Brian Williams thread. The term being used by some for his lies is, "false memories". I wonder how long before the murderers expert witness start using "false memories" for the lies the murderer tells.

Oh Wow! ja used this in her after guilty verdict interview with Troy Hayden! Remember, in reference to Travis family, "they have false memories of him".?

 

[Nosey Parker]

For those that don't agree, I would just like their opinions on how they would feel if the sexes were reversed in this case... ie. a guy that just won't take no for an answer, keeps showing up uninvited, crawls into the woman's bed in the middle of the night, knowing the woman is dating someone else(in fact interferes in the woman's dating life driving away his competitors), makes excuses to fall asleep at her house, shows up in the middle of the night to do her yardwork, take out her garbage, takes naked pics of the woman when it certainly looks like she is unaware(sleeping in bed, in the shower even knowing her shower time is her private time-think personal space)etc., when friends stand up for her and ask him to leave their home he not only ignores them but then walks further into the home and sits down in the kitchen amongst the children and just stares at them for another 15 or so minutes... and those are just off the top of my head.

... and hacks her electronic communications and slashes her tires? I say she should have gone underground long ago. It's only a matter of time before she is murdered.

 

[LinasK]

Watched the Deadly Sins episode last night that featured Jodi. There were several inaccuracies that they portrayed as fact. They relied heavily on commentary from Shana Hogan, a psychologist named Casey Jordan, the Hugheses, and Dave Hall. I'll see if I can remember them all: 1) They claimed that Jodi snooped Bobby J's emails by using the back button (don't believe this for a minute). The library logs you out after 10 min of inactivity. 2) They implied Jodi paid for her own breast implants. I don't believe for a minute that a guy didn't buy them for her. 3) They implied that they were having sex in the Hugheses home right under their noses.
4) They implied the sex after the baptism was in a pool. According to the liar- it was across Travis's desk. 5) They implied that Travis got angry when Jodi decided to move back to Yreka. 6) They implied he dumped Lisa for Mimi. 7) They implied that Travis was a willing participant in the phone sex. 8) They implied that he invited her to Mesa on June 4th and was waiting up for her at 4am. 9) They claimed that Travis took the pictures of Jodi on the bed (I think she took them with a timer). 10)They claimed he knew Jodi was photographing him in the shower. The look of fear and surprise on his face in the still shots tells me otherwise. It appeared to have been made before the retrial. No new claims like the child *advertiser censored* were added.
The host was Darin Kavinoky billed as Crime Scene Expert, he's really a Defense Attorney who was an HLN consultant.

 

[Mindmatters]

For those that don't agree, I would just like their opinions on how they would feel if the sexes were reversed in this case... ie. a guy that just won't take no for an answer, keeps showing up uninvited, crawls into the woman's bed in the middle of the night, knowing the woman is dating someone else(in fact interferes in the woman's dating life driving away his competitors), makes excuses to fall asleep at her house, shows up in the middle of the night to do her yardwork, take out her garbage, takes naked pics of the woman when it certainly looks like she is unaware(sleeping in bed, in the shower even knowing her shower time is her private time-think personal space)etc., when friends stand up for her and ask him to leave their home he not only ignores them but then walks further into the home and sits down in the kitchen amongst the children and just stares at them for another 15 or so minutes... and those are just off the top of my head.

Absolutely Val. This is the crux of the problem with these "old guard" experts, and to some degree society in general; they cannot even consider or conceive of a DV victim being a male. It is insane that these "experts" cannot open up their minds and objectively evaluate the current research that unequivocably finds that DV is equally perpetrated upon men and women (and don't even get me started on what the children of these DV situations endure). In their narrow minded focus, ill informed subjectivity, self serving righteousness, and stubborn rationalizations, they ignore the simple, yet powerful, reality that victims of domestic violence are of both genders.

I am all about equality but that means equality in every sense of the word IYKWIM

 

[ZsaZsa]

For those that don't agree, I would just like their opinions on how they would feel if the sexes were reversed in this case... ie. a guy that just won't take no for an answer, keeps showing up uninvited, crawls into the woman's bed in the middle of the night, knowing the woman is dating someone else(in fact interferes in the woman's dating life driving away his competitors), makes excuses to fall asleep at her house, shows up in the middle of the night to do her yardwork, take out her garbage, takes naked pics of the woman when it certainly looks like she is unaware(sleeping in bed, in the shower even knowing her shower time is her private time-think personal space)etc., when friends stand up for her and ask him to leave their home he not only ignores them but then walks further into the home and sits down in the kitchen amongst the children and just stares at them for another 15 or so minutes... and those are just off the top of my head.

You only had to follow the Caylee Anthony case to know that gender/race rule. If Casey had been Caylee's father, or a young minority female from a deprived background, she would be on death row now.

 

[BritsKate]

This is something I truly fail to understand. Arias is far from accomplished or outstanding in any way, whether it's her talent, education, social status, etc. So where does the entitled attitude come from? Is it merely a manifestation of her illness?

My mom, also BPD, did exhibit the same privileged belief. Even at a fairly young age, her actions/words gave me pause. I knew she was very different from my friends' moms. We were extremely close until I got my driver's license and started dating. Suddenly she was critical of everything - my friends, my interests, me. I realize now that was the devaluing piece of the disorder because I was becoming independent. As she neared menopause, she became worse, exhibiting psychosis and was hospitalized 3 times over the years. Aside from her criticism, I noticed the superior air and the "everyone owes me" mindset. It started with money. She was spending way more than she had. She went through 2 inheritances in a 2 yr span, and then took out signature loans. When she could no longer pay her bills, she came to me. I offered to make the monthly payments on $10k cash advance. On Thanksgiving Day, she called me to tell me it wasn't enough and that I was selfish. She then went into a tirade accusing me, my 87yr old grandmother (her mom) and my aunt (her sister), uncle and cousin of being evil and conspiring against her. I later discovered my grandmother had been giving her well over $1000 a month for years. Grandma was going into assisted living, and thus could no longer afford to support my mom. That was the impetus for her rage.

This is the same behavior I see in Arias, and it's just baffling to me. And it's this delusional assumption in her own exceptional self that spurs much of her rage, her scorched earth MO, imo. The goddess syndrome. And if you don't kowtow to her demands, you suffer her wrath. Arias is a frightening creature.

IMO, it's a lot more consistent with narcissistic personality disorder than borderline. About 1/3 of diagnosed borderlines also have NPD. Comorbidity is high with personality disorders even if co-occuring disorders aren't always diagnosed.

Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerating your achievements and talents
Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
Requiring constant admiration
Having a sense of entitlement
Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
Taking advantage of others to get what you want
Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Being envious of others and believing others envy you
Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner

As an aside, bznbear, I'm so sorry for all you went through with your mother. Loving someone severely personality disordered and untreated is bad enough - I really can't imagine the pain and hopelessness when that someone is also your parent. :hug:

JMO and FWIW

 

[Mindmatters]

IMO, it's a lot more consistent with narcissistic personality disorder than borderline. About 1/3 of diagnosed borderlines also have NPD. Comorbidity is high with personality disorders even if co-occuring disorders aren't always diagnosed.

Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerating your achievements and talents
Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
Requiring constant admiration
Having a sense of entitlement
Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
Taking advantage of others to get what you want[/B]
Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Being envious of others and believing others envy you
Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner

As an aside, bznbear, I'm so sorry for all you went through with your mother. Loving someone severely personality disordered and untreated is bad enough - I really can't imagine the pain and hopelessness when that someone is also your parent. :hug:

JMO and FWIW

Hi Kate, jumping off your great post.

BBM --Yes, and oftentimes the criteria isn't met/symptomology doesn't rise to the level of an actual diagnosis but the clinician typically notes that there is the presence of "traits" consistent with NPD, or document NPD as a "rule out"--rule out is something many psych's use to document that a condition is suspected but didn't meet the threshold of diagnosis at the time of evaluation, for whatever reason.

RBBM -- Unfortunately, these traits in particular become more difficult to discern (or be recognized) in females as being dangerous--in terms of socially accepted gender roles and all.