Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - Day 15

[krkrjx]

Yet another question for AZL... I realize they have latitude to present pretty much anything and everything, but if they do present this "she snapped" nonsense, wasn't that already settled? "She snapped" = "murder-2" (if not manslaughter), so isn't this jury supposed to disregard any notion of "she snapped"?

Was there ever even an option for Murder 2? I thought she was charged with Murder 1 and could have been found guilty of two counts (the second count having something to do with the gun being or not being TA's or the killer having broken in and then removed gun from the premises). I recall MK hoping during guilt phase deliberations for Murder 2 (he was all psyched up to gloat to JM's face when that verdict came down) but I don't think the jury even had a Murder 2 option--it was Murder 1 or no murder conviction at all, IIRC. Next best thing was manslaughter. Am I recalling it wrong?

 

[daisydomino]

Sorry about missing time stamps and Twitter links...

Spoiler

Bob Geffner is here for the defense...aka #waterspiller #jodiarias

Here is a pic of Geffner from the first trial #jodiarias #3tvarias pic.twitter.com/dsBxcS2hhp

Juan is here in light grey suit and royal blue tie with Detective Flores by his side #juantiereport #jodiarias #3tvarias

#jodiarias is here and smiling at Bob Geffner. She's in a short sleeve brown shirt, hair down, glasses on, sharpening her pencils #3tvarias

He talked to Numeister about the encrypted hard drive and he wants to interview Tony & the other guy

Juan says their are discovery issues...

Juan states to judge he just got Geffner's notes at midnight last night #jodiarias #3tvarias Notes are over 100 pgs & he wants an interview

Jen W- Numeister didn't refuse to give Juan the encrypted hard drive. The state doesn't need this they already have it. #jodiarias #3tvarias

Judge wants a statement from Numeister #jodiarias #3tvarias

Juan- Numeister said he went and made copies of certain areas on hard drive but Juan wants the first one #jodiarias #3tvarias

Juan- Since Numeisters employees worked on this he wants to interview them. Judge allows #jodiarias #3tvarias

Jen W- states what Numeister has isn't a full image because defense wanted him to review certain things #jodiarias #3tvarias

The defense is saying they aren't available on all the dates for interviewing Numeister. Judge says he can interview him Thursday #jodiarias

Now the judge is scheduling it for 2nd or 3rd of Jan because Juan needs 3 hours for Numeister #jodiarias #3tvarias

Willmott says Juan has all the notes this is just a summary. #jodiarias #3tvarias

Juan is saying if there are changes to Geffner's notes he has to go through every page to see if there is anything different. #jodiarias

Geffner will be on the stand all week, then Juan, and then 2 days for re direct #jodiarias #3tvarias

Geffner will probably speak on the PTSD, Borderline personality and DV to start #jodiarias #3tvarias

Bob has his water cup lol He's pouring AWAY from his notes #jodiarias #3tvarias

Geffner is a licensed psychologist and a licensed marriage therapist #jodiarias #3tvarias

Holy credentials...this will be awhile. Willmont is asking the questions #jodiarias #3tvarias

Jury is listening but I don't see any notes being taken #jodiarias #3tvarias

Geffner is talking about family violence and how he was apart of a resource center in Texas #jodiarias #3tvarias

Watch #EricWilliamsTrial live now! thetrialdiaries.com/trial-livestre…

Geffner says he has found a link between child abuse and DV #jodiarias #3tvarias

#jodiarias has a full row of supporters today, her mom included #3tvarias

Alexander's are here...Tanisha, Harold and Sam along with friends #jodiarias #3tvarias

Geffner has written books etc. He's speaking about his involvement in DV and how he trains on how to treat victims #jodiarias #3tvarias

Moving to the 1990's lol This is when he was asked to train judges on dynamics of DV and ChAbuse #jodiarias #3tvarias #TheGeffnerChronicles

We are finally up to where Geffner is now living and it's sunny California..say hi to Alyce for us #jodiarias

Geffner has testified in criminal and civil cases. He's testified for defense and prosecution #jodiarias #3tvarias

I'm daydreaming about lunch and a coffee right now #jodiarias I wish he'd spill something to jazz this thing up

Some on the jury are tuned out thinking about lunch also #jodiarias

Geffner get's $250 an hour and he says that has stayed the same for a decade..he says the institute get's the $$ #jodiarias #3tvarias

Willmont- Has an ethics committee ever reprimanded you or cited you? Geffner- No #jodiarias #3tvarias

Willmot- Has your testimony been criticized? Geffner- Well by appellate courts I never knew about. #jodiarias #3tvarias

This was a child case and we were asked to evaluate the child and mother and the judge wasn't happy with our findings. #jodiarias #3tvarias

Juan- Objects to judge wasn't happy and Judge sustains #jodiarias #3tvarias

The judge precluded some of Geffner's testimony & GFner says Judge criticized a lot of experts + called him a name "A hired gun" #jodiarias

#JODIARIAS shirt is a blue-purplish shirt..I stand corrected and need glasses lol

10 min recess- Geffner is getting drilled outside of jury about this judge that criticized him. #jodiarias #3tvarias

Juan says the COA didn't take issue with this judge. This judge did end up resigning. This is a preview of Juan vs Geffner #jodiarias

Willmott says Juan has more than enough info on this judge and judge says overruled but we are on recess #jodiarias #3tvarias

Willmott- So judge called you a "hired gun" Geffner- Yes. The judge was forced to retire from what I heard #jodiarias #3tvarias

W- Did another judge ever make a neg comment about your credentials? Geffner- No #jodiarias #3tvarias

Geffner says he started working on Jodi case a couple years ago & he was looking @ the testing and making sure it was admined appropriately

Geffner says his role has changed this time around. First time he never met Jodi. #jodiarias #3tvarias

Now he says he was asked to do a full review. Interview her and see about her issues and see if he could diagnose her #jodiarias #3tvarias

Geffner did some testing...Jodi loves hearing about her testing #jodiarias

Now for the validity scale..to see if someone is a liar liar pants on fire. #jodiarias #3tvarias

Geffner says ones administering these tests have to have expertise and an understanding of what you are doing. #jodiarias #3tvarias

Geffner is going to review the MMPI-2 that Jodi took #jodiarias #3tvarias

This looks at someone's overall personality #jodiarias #3tvarias

This test was given to Arias and she only took this test once #jodiarias #3tvarias

Dr. DeMarte gave this test back in 2011 #jodiarias #3tvarias

Validity/Clinical results are on the big screen..GFnr just got an electronic pencil to draw on the screen with. Hope he doesn't make a mess

Jodi reported a huge number of symptoms..one reason, serious trauma..another, full of BS #jodiarias #3tvarias

Jodi has a peak at bizarre thoughts on the chart #jodiarias #3tvarias

Geffner had concerns on the validity of the test but he needed to know more before he made a conclusion. #jodiarias #3tvarias

Jodi had body issues on this test...well the naked pic's say different #jodiarias #3tvarias

#jodiarias felt people were out to get her on this test but Geffner says the prosecution would be an example of people out to get her

Geffner- If someone is charged with 1st degree murder and is being prosecuted it could elevate things. #jodiarias #3tvarias

#Jodiarias had demoralization and depression from that scale #3tvarias

More specific scales- Elevated- anxiety, bizarre thoughts (flashbacks could be it), low self esteem #jodiarias #3tvarias

FRS Scale is fears- Does someone have a lot of fears? Her general fears were just a little above normal #jodiarias #3tvarias

It didn't show Jodi was very obsessed or angry..her anger was low #jodiarias #3tvarias

Jodi was average for following the law...except for the murder :eye roll: #jodiarias #3tvarias

Geffner is seeing Jodi was focused while taking test. #jodiarias had high anxiety #3tvarias

Lunch recess till 1:25pm MST #jodiarias #3tvarias

 

[MeeBee]

Was there ever even an option for Murder 2? I thought she was charged with Murder 1 and could have been found guilty of two counts (the second count having something to do with the gun being or not being TA's or the killer having broken in and then removed gun from the premises). I recall MK hoping during guilt phase deliberations for Murder 2 (he was all psyched up to gloat to JM's face when that verdict came down) but I don't think the jury even had a Murder 2 option--it was Murder 1 or no murder conviction at all, IIRC. Next best thing was manslaughter. Am I recalling it wrong?

Any of the lesser charges were an option, including murder 2 and manslaughter. Under the option for murder 1 there was premeditated first degree mueder, and felony first degree murder. Juan tried to argue that if you don't find premeditated, you find felony because a.) once she started killing Travis she was an unwelcome intruder, and b.) she "stole" the gun when she ran and got it and shot him. Those arguments were unnecessary and nonsensical and I'm glad the jury wasn't unanimous on it.

 

[Kamille]

Honestly Nali, I think they are going for the "snapped" defense doncha know. I mean c'mon it was Travis' UNCONFIRMED physical and emotional abuse along with his child *advertiser censored* problem (as a result of being a child of neglect and abuse himself) that caused this totally normal woman who, despite being a victim of childhood abuse herself (albeit to a lesser degree) was driven to the edge of madness and violence, and who of course ended up having Transient Global Amnesia when it came to the vicious and torturous stabbing of her victim. I mean what's a girl to do!!!

Nevermind the CONFIRMED mountain of evidence that she with great care premeditated and planned the murder of another human being, did everything in her power to cover up and destroy evidence and hide the fact that she was ever in AZ, and that she had a history of anger, sexual promiscuity, stalking her lovers, emotionally and psychologically abusing people in her life, harming or neglecting animals, a complete disregard for the privacy of significant others, violating anyone's boundaries willy nilly if it served her purposes, pathological lying, physical altercations with her parents, manipulating behaviors from a very early age, and on and on and on. After all, the jury will never hear about those things anyway!!

I agree. She "snapped" due to her newly accepted personality disorder and childhood abuse/PTSD issues is now likely the new mantra. Problem with this is that this is not the guilt phase. She's already been determined to not have "snapped". The DT is retrying their portion of the guilt phase to try to get a more favourable view of JA from this jury. I don't understand how they can do this? It's a complete do-over for them.

MOO

 

[RickshawFan]

Hi Nali. The MMPI--2 is a very, very reliable and valid instrument for measuring psychopathology and personality disorders, and it is as psychometrically sound as they come. It has internal constructs designed to "catch" exaggeration, over reporting and under-reporting--basically it is designed to identify those who lie on the test. And while there is no instrument out there that is perfect, this is the absolute best there is to offer when a clinician suspects psychopathology.

However, you are absolutely correct, any Clinician worth his or her salt (and by ethical standards) MUST take into account collateral reporting of family, friends, co-workers, etc..., in order to diagnose an individual appropriately.

I'll bet there is a cheat sheet floating around Estrella. It would be very easy to memorize the questions.

 

[AZlawyer]

Yet another question for AZL... I realize they have latitude to present pretty much anything and everything, but if they do present this "she snapped" nonsense, wasn't that already settled? "She snapped" = "murder-2" (if not manslaughter), so isn't this jury supposed to disregard any notion of "she snapped"?

Yes. I think they are sneakily trying to get in a manslaughter "feeling" without quite asking the jury to disregard the finding of premeditation.

They are saying she "snapped" and because she was mentally ill the "snapping" caused her to premeditate murder.

Was there ever even an option for Murder 2? I thought she was charged with Murder 1 and could have been found guilty of two counts (the second count having something to do with the gun being or not being TA's or the killer having broken in and then removed gun from the premises). I recall MK hoping during guilt phase deliberations for Murder 2 (he was all psyched up to gloat to JM's face when that verdict came down) but I don't think the jury even had a Murder 2 option--it was Murder 1 or no murder conviction at all, IIRC. Next best thing was manslaughter. Am I recalling it wrong?

Yes, the jury had the option of Second Degree Murder: http://www.kpho.com/category/263750/jodi-arias-jury-instructions

 

[hindsight2020]

Well, I think we've all learned something. "Jodi Arias was not an angry person, no more than average." I've got to rethink my whole life & I've only got a lunch hour to do it.

^^^Does not show anger is a Psychopath Trait

Dr. DeMarte killers clinical scales personality indicate signs of psychopathogy, people with this personality profile tend to experience a lot of aggressiveness, defensiveness hostility, these individuals do good job of not displaying it to people, not someone that walks around hostile, throwing things where it is visible to other people, but they are still experiencing those emotions inside. In time when they feel like they have been wronged in some sort of way or when someone has done something to hurt them that they perceive is hiring them in any kind of way, they have violent outbursts that are described as seething as very angry and what they tend to do is and what the profile suggests is that the individual externalizes blame, for example I acted out this way because that person deserved it, they say it’s not my fault, I didn’t act this way because I have these strong emotions inside, I acted this way because someone did something to me, that is how they justify and conceptualize it in their mind; i.e. killer Internalizes anger.


Dr. DeMarte@~1:55
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-2zojV0fXE

 

[wenwe4]

No murder charges or anything illegal in my case, of that I can assure you! ;-D

The test makes you answer even though you may feel a certain way about someone (like a parent) today or lately but if they had asked the question last week or maybe in the next month or so then you might feel more kindly toward them, but maybe not on the day you take the test. LOL. Relationships with people are very complicated as are emotions and I wondered if the test took into account that humans can have conflicting emotions.

I also had the feeling of... OMG these questions get repeated in many different ways over and over and by question #100 I'm thoroughly bored and I still have another 300+ to go?

I am so sorry - never meant you in that part of my post. Thanks!

I agree the MMPI is not meant to be entertaining - (it is quite grueling) and yep the repetition is part of the validity scales.

 

[krkrjx]

Any of the lesser charges were an option, including murder 2 and manslaughter. Under the option for murder 1 there was premeditated first degree mueder, and felony first degree murder. Juan tried to argue that if you don't find premeditated, you find felony because a.) once she started killing Travis she was an unwelcome intruder, and b.) she "stole" the gun when she ran and got it and shot him. Those arguments were unnecessary and nonsensical and I'm glad the jury wasn't unanimous on it.

Thanks...I had not realized Murder 2 was even an option. Well it's good to hear it was, as it was rejected even by the skewed-thinking foreman.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Off-Topic ... from WAT:


Wild About Trial @WildAboutTrial · 2m 2 minutes ago

Appeals court upholds condom use in LA *advertiser censored* films

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/appeals-court-upholds-condom-use-in-la-*advertiser censored*-films/ …



--- I saw the word "*advertiser censored*" and I thought it was the CMJA case . . . lol !

 

[Frigga]

Yes, all of this. Seriously, she's not innocent-until-proven-guilty----- she was found guilty!!! What is this circus for? I seriously can't handle this nonsense.

I keep waiting for a tweeter in the courtroom to tell us that the Cat-in-the-hat is the next witness or Ashton Kutcher.

 

[Kamille]

BBM

How long since he's actually testified?

Does he know that phones don't have cords anymore?

Apparently he only usually testifies in third world countries or something? :waitasec:

MOO

 

[dog.gone.cute]

From WAT:


Wild About Trial @WildAboutTrial · 2m 2 minutes ago

.@kinseyschofield back at #jodiarias.

Geff's hair color is looking especially natural compared to the last time around.


Wild About Trial @WildAboutTrial · 28s 29 seconds ago

Lights are low so I'm regretting not sitting closer to @jeffgoldesq as Geff shows us a PTSD scale on stand. #jodiarias

 

[Truth Detector]

I didn't put that into words right..

They're now saying Jodi was abused and was mentally ill but that she had normal levels of anger. Nothing that would suggest she is capable of extreme violence. But if that is true - how do they explain her murdering him the way she did? This was not a shooting. It was a butchering. They can't argue it was self defense. They CAN say she was mentally ill - but again - tied in with what their defense is claiming which is that she was a normal, battered woman with low self esteem and low levels of anger, how is such a woman capable of such violence?

How do they plan to spin this? Explain it to me someone - maybe I'm just not seeing it.

From the DT's perspective:

Her contention is that she acted solely in self defense.

She cannot even feign remorse now, as a sorrowful response would be entirely inappropriate.

Don't abuse victims under threat of life and limb from large, powerful, enraged pedophiles with secret guns whose cameras have been dropped on tile floors have a right to defend themselves?

(Please tell me these jurors are at or above average IQ.)

 

[Wolfpack Fan]

Look how angry Jodi got at Dan Freeman when he removed all the makeup and hair products from her backpack when he and his sister were going camping with JA and TA. She confronted Clancy Talbot in the bathroom at a PPL convention and wouldn't let her out at first. If she was upset with Travis at work, she would go the restroom and kick the walls. She confronted Bobby immediately after reading the e-mail he had sent to the girl in Florida (I think). Later she confronted Bianca, the girl Matt McCartney had started dating. I feel sure there are lots of times she blew up when she was with Darryl Brewer, but he refuses to tell many negative things about her. She kicked the dog, hit her brother with the bat, kicked her mother, etc. No, she's never been an angry person.

 

[rose222]

Thanks...I had not realized Murder 2 was even an option. Well it's good to hear it was, as it was rejected even by the skewed-thinking foreman.

That was the best part. The jurors rejected self-defense, manslaughter and second-degree. Arias did not expect to be found guilty of premeditated murder. The look on her face when the verdict was read was one of shock.

 

[SillyPants]

Am I crazy or does that make no sense? If they're saying Juan already has what they're working with, then how is it revealing strategy?

Because JW has said the defense gave BN a copy of *parts* of what was on the computer, not a copy of *everything* that was on the computer. So, if the prosecution knows which parts, they may be able to deduce what the defense's strategy is. So JW is correct in saying that JM already has everything the defense gave BN, in that JM has the entire computer that includes the parts given to BN.

In California, anything you give to an expert for review is discoverable by opposing counsel, excluding things like communications from attorney to expert and generally things prepared by the attorney for litigation. Not sure if it's the same in AZ. If it is the same, JM is entitled to a copy of the exact computer image that was provided to BN.

AZLawyer, please feel free to correct anything I've misstated

 

[Hope4More]

Am I crazy or does that make no sense? If they're saying Juan already has what they're working with, then how is it revealing strategy?

You're not crazy. . That's why I said she's talking out of both sides of her mouth, why I don't think JSS "gets it, " and why I am not the least bit optimistic that JSS is delaying son as to cite him with contempt.

BN's refusal to obey her and her kumbya response is a perfect example of her overall paralysis , IMO.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I keep waiting for a tweeter in the courtroom to tell us that the Cat-in-the-hat is the next witness or Ashton Kutcher.

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: LOL !

:waitasec: Oh wait -- maybe it will be Angelina Jolie -- see discussion on previous thread about Angelina !

:seeya: Rose is here, maybe she can fill us in the story that was on the previous thread !

Thanks !

 

[Truth Detector]

And apparently her brother let out a blood-curling scream. It wasn't a one time thing. The babysitter said that she couldn't leave Arias alone with her brother because she would often create trouble.

I don't think 'anger' even appropriately describes the hateful energy that bubbles inside every cell of her body and every thought in her mind. Rage? Fury? I don't know what word to use.

BBM

Evil incarnate, "corrupted carcass"