Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - Day 17

[Sedonia Sunset]

Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 2m2 minutes ago
GEFF- Travis is important in the religion and wants anal sex so Jodi goes along with it but it was painful so she stopped it #jodiarias

CBS 5 News ‏@CBS5AZ · 2m2 minutes ago  Phoenix, AZ
Geffner: Arias didn't know anyyhlng about Mormon church-then two months later she is being baptised.#jodiarias @jbarrycbs5

Wild About Trial ‏@WildAboutTrial · 2m2 minutes ago
NSFW: Geff claims that #JodiArias was shocked by his request, originally went along with it but it hurt & she decided to stop.

Steve Krafft ‏@SKrafftFox10 · 2m2 minutes ago
Baptism followed by anal sex re: #jodiarias & Travis Alexander: Dr. Geffner says "That is as strong a mixed message as you can get."

Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 2m2 minutes ago
Geffner- It's a pattern for Jodi to comply #jodiarias #3tvarias

Yihyun Jeong ‏@yihyun_jeong · 1m1 minute ago  Phoenix, AZ
Soon after baptism, Geffner says #TravisAlexander initiated anal sex. Both events show #JodiArias pattern to "please him."

It was HER decision to "please him", in whichever form that pleasing was accomplished.

 

[bsk]

If she was ever 'serious' about suicide Travis would still be alive.

Maybe that'll be her next story. She was really trying to commit suicide but with it being so foggy and all she kept missing and accidentally stabbed/shot Travis.

 

[Sedonia Sunset]

Yihyun Jeong ‏@yihyun_jeong · 4m4 minutes ago  Phoenix, AZ
#JodiArias chose Alexander over Abdelhadi. Geffner says it's a powerful email bc her vocab shows she chose Travis's values/needs over hers

She FORWARDED the email to TRAVIS. That shows that the email was written for the sole purpose of having Travis read it. More manipulation by CMJA.

 

[bsk]

Sounds to me she wrote that journal specifically for TA to read. She probably left it at his home in his bedroom often so that he would read it. The whole thing reads like one long manipulation. She writes when things he does make her happy and when they don't. Then towards the end she starts to write about her depression and suicidal thoughts because of him. And she sledgehammers her hard drive when she realizes the cops are on to her but doesn't burn those journals?


MOO

Those are some great connections you made there! I never thought about it that way, but it makes perfect sense - the journal being one of her tools to manipulate him, and now turned to be used to trash him. There is no limit to how diabolical she is.

 

[bsk]

Carolyn Sung ‏@CarolynSungCNN · 3m3 minutes ago
10/27/07: #jodiarias writes she doesn't need to be on suicide watch, but she hasn't felt so broken since 1998.

Yihyun Jeong ‏@yihyun_jeong · 4m4 minutes ago  Phoenix, AZ
Journal shows concern from McCartney and that he wants her to be committed and on suicide watch. #JodiArias

Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 4m4 minutes ago
Geffner says Matt was on right track she was suicidal and had overwhelming depression #jodiarias #3tvarias

Wild About Trial ‏@WildAboutTrial · 4m4 minutes ago
10/27/07 - #JodiArias journals about falling asleep to the TV bc she's sad.

Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 3m3 minutes ago
10/29- Travis insisted that I tear out a page I wrote a few days ago listing some of the hateful words he'd spoken. #jodiarias #3tvarias

Jen's Trial Diaries ‏@TrialDiariesJ · 3m3 minutes ago
Jodi is talking about waking up and feeling so much depression #jodiarias #3tvarias

This is a companion for the post just above it. If Travis was 'sneakily' reading your journal, you would never make an entry like the BBM one correct? But if you were using it to manipulate him and drive him completely bonkers as Kamille theorized, then it would make perfect sense.

Of course the defense response would be something like: "He didn't need to actually see her journal. He had so abused / brainwashed / controlled her that he could literally force her to tear a page out from 1,000 miles away."

 

[bsk]

IMO, if the DT had taken this tack, sans villianizing of Travis, it would have been pretty effective. They could have pointed to the dysfunction of the relationship and point out how warped Jodi's mind was and how she couldn't deal with rationally. Juries usually have some mercy on those disturbed individuals who kill because of unrequited love, even if there's some level of premeditation involved.

The defense wants to say Jodi was writing these things because of how terribly Travis treated her. But it's obvious she was feeling these things whenever things weren't going well, or as well as she'd hoped (weren't going her way), with Travis. That's how borderlines work. They exacerbate others' actions, they perceive small things as slights or betrayals. Not putting her first on his MySpace friends sent her crying to the Hughes'. Travis not calling her back for two hours made her suicidal.

I just think if they'd have avoided making Travis the bad guy and Jodi the saint and stuck with a slimmer narrative they'd have been more successful. But there goes Jodi, shooting herself in the foot again.

I think if I were on this jury and all those lies about Travis hadn't come out I might have been able to spare her life. But when the pedophile stuff comes out, and the physical abuse (that's noticeably absent this time around) and just making every little thing seem like his fault, that speaks to a lack of remorse. She can say she's remorseful all she wants, but she obviously isn't. And there goes her mitigating factor. Remorse is an important thing to people.

I totally agree. Instead it seems like it would backfire on them. The way I would piece it together is:
- JA is a psycho all along, but Travis doesn't realize it.
- Then late May 2008 he realizes she is a psycho and calls her on it.
- So she murders him.

Pretty simple eh? Then again, they only need to fool 1 out of 12, so if 11 are 100% sure she deserves death and 1 is only 40% sure, the DT wins even though that works out to 95% overall.

 

[bsk]

BBM: But there wasn't anything in her diary about that, was there? Not sure he can bring it in when she never documented it.

He can easily bring in the pedo stuff. He just has to say she told him about it in the interview. That's probably where JW thinks she will leave the jury for Christmas.

 

[bsk]

I think in a twisted way we are getting as close to the truth as we may ever get when it comes to the murderer. I think there has been pretty solid evidence presented (in both the trial and here) that JAA is personality disordered (BPD) with anti social tendencies along with hints of narcissism. The fact that several people in her inner circle thought she was Bipolar seems close to accurate in light of the fact that Bipolar and BPD can often be misdiagnosed- one for the other- as they have similarities that may overlap (thanks BritsKate).

The fact that she never got help for it seems to go along with her diagnosis, as well, but as we have wonderful posters who have been diagnosed BPD... that doesn't explain everything, especially the murder. Hence the sociopathy/psychopathy aspect.

She did NOT want the diagnosis in the first trial- not even the hint of it- which leads me to believe this is very close to the truth. Also, why the people who knew or cared about her were unable to get her to seek help.

My sister was diagnosed BPD and abruptly halted therapy and she is not a psychopath.

What really could have been done?

Even if Travis had sought a restraining order- we know how that goes- it never really stops anything and almost seems to escalate the violent behavior of perpetrators.

Sadly, I think she would have killed him- no matter what- and no one could have put her away before the fact.

It seems almost inevitable watching her all consuming obsession with Travis and anyone that had anything to do with him- too.

What was so different about Travis?

I think his personality attracted and repelled her all at the same time.

Her empty, false sense of self was magnified next to him- to the highest power imaginable. His joy for life, his magnetism, his determination and drive... his generosity and his humor. I really believe someone like Jodi is not able to find genuine humor- gut wrenching, belly laughing, wet your pants kind of humor- in anything.

Why would someone else's bright light extinguish anothers?

It wouldn't.

It would only make evident the fact that the other had no light within- to begin with.

Why the hell didn't she just kill her own, damn, sorry self? Because she HATED Travis- not because he didn't want her it was because having known him she came to the recognition that she was an empty, dark, black hole of a soul and he had figured it out too. There would be no lingering friendship for her, no well wishes for her future, no future manipulations by her. He was going to tell her secret to everyone- her family included- remember?

To all who would have ears to listen. The moment JAA knew that, her plan went in to action. It was inevitable. She had to snuff that life force out- the one she would never have herself. She didn't want to have Travis, she wanted to BE Travis.

I don't even think Travis would have followed through with his threats, I think he would have moved on and tried to forget her. I have no doubt that he would have been a more cautious person and maybe not so all forgiving.

Who knows what his life may have been. Sadly, I believe the day he crossed paths with her was the day the time started ticking down on the clock of his life.

She will always be the worst thing that ever happened to him... to many more people now, as well.

I look at the picture of her as a darling toddler with pigtails and wonder how does someone like her even come into being?

Fantastic post!! Of course Travis never realized until a week before she killed him what a trap he had fallen into. Watching it in 20-20 hindsight and now seeing this monster trying to destroy his family as well is heartbreaking.

 

[bsk]

Thinking further about a couple of the great posts I commented on above, it might have been easy to feel sympathy for JA had things turned out differently. She had all these visions of greatness along with various sorts of mental issues and so on. She ended up living in very sad conditions - her bedroom at granny's looked like it was for a 9yo boy, who would have thought the room was too small. Even though she ended up there because of her own actions, it could make you sad to see an adult woman living in a state like that. But that sympathy goes out the window when you see what she did next.

 

[YESorNO]

Michael K. Jeanes, Clerk of Court
*** Electronically Filed ***
12/18/2014 8:00 AM

12/16/2014

TRIAL MINUTE ENTRY
DAY TWENTY-THREE

LET THE RECORD REFLECT that on 12/15/14 Exhibits 233, 242.001 and 242.002
were temporarily released to Defense and returned today....

The Defendant’s presence is waived for this portion of the hearing.

The Jury is not present....

Defense Exhibit 768 is marked for identification....

LET THE RECORD REFLECT that there was a break in the trial proceeding from 10:34
a.m. – 10:38 a.m. while the Court handled a matter related to the Evidentiary Hearing on the
Defendant’s Motion to Dismiss....

10:44 a.m. The Jury is now present.

Dr. Robert Geffner, having previously been sworn, testifies further.

Defense Exhibits 769 and 770 are marked for identification.
Defense offers Defense Exhibits 769 and 770 and they are admitted in evidence.
Defense Exhibits 771-781 are marked for identification....
Defense Exhibits 782-790 are marked for identification...
Defense Exhibit 791 is marked for identification....
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 783 and it is admitted in evidence.
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 782 and it is admitted in evidence....

Later:
LET THE RECORD REFLECT that Defense Exhibit 782 is replaced with a clean copy
of the exhibit.

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/122014/m6620755.pdf
----------------

Michael K. Jeanes, Clerk of Court
*** Electronically Filed ***
12/18/2014 8:00 AM

12/16/2014

MINUTE ENTRY

This is the time set for continued Evidentiary Hearing on Defendant’s Motion to Dismiss.

The Court grants Defense motion to re-open the hearing in order to mark Exhibit 13.
Defense Exhibit 13 is marked for identification and admitted by the Court for the
purposes of this Evidentiary Hearing only....

Later:

LET THE RECORD REFLECT that Defense Exhibit 13 is temporarily released to the
State today and returned to the Court this date.

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/122014/m6620754.pdf
-------------------

Michael K. Jeanes, Clerk of Court
*** Electronically Filed ***
12/18/2014 8:00 AM

12/17/2014

TRIAL MINUTE ENTRY
DAY TWENTY-FOUR

LET THE RECORD REFLECT that on 12/16/14 Exhibits 233, 242.001 and 242.002
were released to Defense and returned today....

Defense Exhibits 792-797 are marked for identification.

Dr. Robert Geffer, having previously been sworn, testifies further.

Exhibit 786 is split and two pages removed from the back and marked as Exhibit
786.001.
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 786 and it is admitted in evidence....
Defense Exhibit 798 is marked for identification....
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 789 and it is admitted in evidence...
Exhibits 787 and 788 are redacted and the clerk is directed to make a copy of the redacted
exhibits over the break and replace them with the redacted documents.

IT IS ORDERED that Defense is to provide and un-redacted copy of Exhibits 787 and
788 and they will be marked as exhibits and sealed to preserve for the appellate court.
Defense offers Defense Exhibits 787, 788 and 790 and they are admitted in evidence....
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 791 and it is admitted in evidence...
Defense Exhibit 798 is temporarily released to Defense and returned prior to
reconvening.
Defense Exhibit 799 and 800 are marked for identification....
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 559 and it is admitted in evidence.
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 563 and it is admitted in evidence....
Defense offers State’s Exhibits 233, 242, 242.001 and 242.002 and they are admitted in
evidence.
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 793 and it is admitted in evidence....

Later:

IT IS ORDERED setting Oral Argument on News Organizations Request for Order
Unsealing Transcript of October 30, 2014 Witness Testimony and Related Proceedings motion
filed 12/16/14 on 1/5/15 at 9:30 a.m. in this division.

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/122014/m6622582.pdf
----------------------------------------

 

[YESorNO]

Just FYI:

*1/5/2015- 9:30- Oral Argument on News Organizations Request for Order
Unsealing Transcript

* 1/23/2015 - 13:30 - Status Conference

* 2/6/2015 - 13:30 - Oral Argument

 

[Tulessa]

JMO She was born with a tail.

I'm sorry, but this^^^ :floorlaugh:

 

[Luvrosco]

Excellent posts and the word diabolical fits her, IMO. This woman should never be able to walk free again. This might have been already answered, so I apologize in advance. If JSS were to give her LWP can her decision be overturned if the prosecution appealed it?

 

[rose222]

Their strategy seems to be to try and make Travis look like a controlling, abusive monster. But then they point to kid of normal things that happen to everyone.' You have sex with a guy and he does not call for a couple of days.' DUH. That's the way of the world. Most girls figure out not to give it away after that.

You have a fight, then make up by having sex. Double DUH. Since when is that abusive? That is pretty normal relationship stuff. You are not mad at each other anymore and you want to be intimate to reestablish your relationship. I don't see that as controlling if both are on board. And Jodi was fully on board.

At some point he wanted her to date other people. HELLO. That is a very common way to try and get rid of your ex. You just hope and pray they meet a new victim. I don't see that as abusive on his part, just optimistic and unrealistic.

The same with the 'initiated sex while she was asleep' ---trying to make that out as some kind of rape is ridiculous. If she had never been his willing sex partner, then of course it would be abusive. But most people appreciate being approached in that way by their loved one. I think the jurors will feel the same way.

When this Geff guy keeps trying to reiterate how 'abusive' Travis was, and then points to him 'pulling on her wrist once' and pushing her another time, they will shrug. We ALL know what true abuse looks like. We all know what it is really like when someone is TRAPPED in a violent, abusive relationship. And this was not it.

I think in a twisted way we are getting as close to the truth as we may ever get when it comes to the murderer. I think there has been pretty solid evidence presented (in both the trial and here) that JAA is personality disordered (BPD) with anti social tendencies along with hints of narcissism. The fact that several people in her inner circle thought she was Bipolar seems close to accurate in light of the fact that Bipolar and BPD can often be misdiagnosed- one for the other- as they have similarities that may overlap (thanks BritsKate).

The fact that she never got help for it seems to go along with her diagnosis, as well, but as we have wonderful posters who have been diagnosed BPD... that doesn't explain everything, especially the murder. Hence the sociopathy/psychopathy aspect.

She did NOT want the diagnosis in the first trial- not even the hint of it- which leads me to believe this is very close to the truth. Also, why the people who knew or cared about her were unable to get her to seek help.

My sister was diagnosed BPD and abruptly halted therapy and she is not a psychopath.

What really could have been done?

Even if Travis had sought a restraining order- we know how that goes- it never really stops anything and almost seems to escalate the violent behavior of perpetrators.

Sadly, I think she would have killed him- no matter what- and no one could have put her away before the fact.

It seems almost inevitable watching her all consuming obsession with Travis and anyone that had anything to do with him- too.

What was so different about Travis?

I think his personality attracted and repelled her all at the same time.

Her empty, false sense of self was magnified next to him- to the highest power imaginable. His joy for life, his magnetism, his determination and drive... his generosity and his humor. I really believe someone like Jodi is not able to find genuine humor- gut wrenching, belly laughing, wet your pants kind of humor- in anything.

Why would someone else's bright light extinguish anothers?

It wouldn't.

It would only make evident the fact that the other had no light within- to begin with.

Why the hell didn't she just kill her own, damn, sorry self? Because she HATED Travis- not because he didn't want her it was because having known him she came to the recognition that she was an empty, dark, black hole of a soul and he had figured it out too. There would be no lingering friendship for her, no well wishes for her future, no future manipulations by her. He was going to tell her secret to everyone- her family included- remember? To all who would have ears to listen. The moment JAA knew that, her plan went in to action. It was inevitable. She had to snuff that life force out- the one she would never have herself. She didn't want to have Travis, she wanted to BE Travis.

I don't even think Travis would have followed through with his threats, I think he would have moved on and tried to forget her. I have no doubt that he would have been a more cautious person and maybe not so all forgiving.

Who knows what his life may have been. Sadly, I believe the day he crossed paths with her was the day the time started ticking down on the clock of his life.

She will always be the worst thing that ever happened to him... to many more people now, as well.

I look at the picture of her as a darling toddler with pigtails and wonder how does someone like her even come into being?

Excellent, excellent posts.

 

[bsk]

Just FYI:

*1/5/2015- 9:30- Oral Argument on News Organizations Request for Order
Unsealing Transcript

* 1/23/2015 - 13:30 - Status Conference

* 2/6/2015 - 13:30 - Oral Argument

Maybe the COA will order the release (again) faster than JSS can even get around to having a hearing to talk about it.

 

[TexMex]

What's the jury schedule for the next couple of weeks?

 

[bsk]

Michael K. Jeanes, Clerk of Court
*** Electronically Filed ***
12/18/2014 8:00 AM

12/16/2014

TRIAL MINUTE ENTRY
DAY TWENTY-THREE

LET THE RECORD REFLECT that on 12/15/14 Exhibits 233, 242.001 and 242.002
were temporarily released to Defense and returned today....

The Defendant’s presence is waived for this portion of the hearing.

The Jury is not present....

Defense Exhibit 768 is marked for identification....

LET THE RECORD REFLECT that there was a break in the trial proceeding from 10:34
a.m. – 10:38 a.m. while the Court handled a matter related to the Evidentiary Hearing on the
Defendant’s Motion to Dismiss....

10:44 a.m. The Jury is now present.

Dr. Robert Geffner, having previously been sworn, testifies further.

Defense Exhibits 769 and 770 are marked for identification.
Defense offers Defense Exhibits 769 and 770 and they are admitted in evidence.
Defense Exhibits 771-781 are marked for identification....
Defense Exhibits 782-790 are marked for identification...
Defense Exhibit 791 is marked for identification....
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 783 and it is admitted in evidence.
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 782 and it is admitted in evidence....

Later:
LET THE RECORD REFLECT that Defense Exhibit 782 is replaced with a clean copy
of the exhibit.

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/122014/m6620755.pdf
----------------

Michael K. Jeanes, Clerk of Court
*** Electronically Filed ***
12/18/2014 8:00 AM

12/16/2014

MINUTE ENTRY

This is the time set for continued Evidentiary Hearing on Defendant’s Motion to Dismiss.

The Court grants Defense motion to re-open the hearing in order to mark Exhibit 13.
Defense Exhibit 13 is marked for identification and admitted by the Court for the
purposes of this Evidentiary Hearing only....

Later:

LET THE RECORD REFLECT that Defense Exhibit 13 is temporarily released to the
State today and returned to the Court this date.

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/122014/m6620754.pdf
-------------------

Michael K. Jeanes, Clerk of Court
*** Electronically Filed ***
12/18/2014 8:00 AM

12/17/2014

TRIAL MINUTE ENTRY
DAY TWENTY-FOUR

LET THE RECORD REFLECT that on 12/16/14 Exhibits 233, 242.001 and 242.002
were released to Defense and returned today....

Defense Exhibits 792-797 are marked for identification.

Dr. Robert Geffer, having previously been sworn, testifies further.

Exhibit 786 is split and two pages removed from the back and marked as Exhibit
786.001.
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 786 and it is admitted in evidence....
Defense Exhibit 798 is marked for identification....
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 789 and it is admitted in evidence...
Exhibits 787 and 788 are redacted and the clerk is directed to make a copy of the redacted
exhibits over the break and replace them with the redacted documents.

IT IS ORDERED that Defense is to provide and un-redacted copy of Exhibits 787 and
788 and they will be marked as exhibits and sealed to preserve for the appellate court.
Defense offers Defense Exhibits 787, 788 and 790 and they are admitted in evidence....
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 791 and it is admitted in evidence...
Defense Exhibit 798 is temporarily released to Defense and returned prior to
reconvening.
Defense Exhibit 799 and 800 are marked for identification....
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 559 and it is admitted in evidence.
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 563 and it is admitted in evidence....
Defense offers State’s Exhibits 233, 242, 242.001 and 242.002 and they are admitted in
evidence.
Defense offers Defense Exhibit 793 and it is admitted in evidence....

Later:

IT IS ORDERED setting Oral Argument on News Organizations Request for Order
Unsealing Transcript of October 30, 2014 Witness Testimony and Related Proceedings motion
filed 12/16/14 on 1/5/15 at 9:30 a.m. in this division.

http://www.courtminutes.maricopa.gov/docs/Criminal/122014/m6622582.pdf
----------------------------------------

The hearings and other nonsense related to this carp motion to dismiss are taking longer than the whole penalty phase was supposed to last. Unbelievable.

 

[LambChop]

Today's retrial thread is open. Please feel free to move over as this thread is closing in 10 minutes.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?265730-Retrial-for-Sentencing-of-Jodi-Arias-Day-18