Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered

[SouthAussie]

No statement apparently.

Parts of the statement were contained in my posts above, Elainera. Posts 491 & 496.

Here is what the Guardian published.


Debris in sea not related to missing jet

Following the press conference with the Indonesian vice president, Jusuf Kalla, the understanding is now that the debris spotted by an Australian search plane is unrelated to the missing AirAsia jet. This from AFP quotes him as saying:

“It has been checked and no sufficient evidence was found to confirm what was reported.”

Kalla said there were 15 ships and 30 aircraft searching the area. “It is not an easy operation in the sea, especially in bad weather like this,” he said.

Indonesian Air Force spokesman Hadi Tjahjanto told AFP the search was now focused on a patch of oil spotted off Belitung island in the Java Sea.

“We are making sure whether it was avtur (aviation fuel) from the AirAsia plane or from a vessel because that location is a shipping line,” he said.

Australia, Singapore and Malaysia have deployed planes and ships to assist in the Indonesian search for Flight QZ8501, which disappeared over the Java Sea on Sunday en route to Singapore.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...at-first-light#block-54a11440e4b084424a7b2c2d

 

[Tulessa]

I'm not an overly tinfoil-hat type of person, but actually, when you think about it, two airliners going missing - vanishing - in the timeframe and in a broadly similar geographical location, is weird.

I suppose we need to rethink our mindset about the 'certainties' of air travel. I would never have contemplated a commercial airliner going missing before MH370.

I haven't flown since 9/11.

 

[Elainera]

Parts of the statement were contained in my posts above, Elainera. Posts 491 & 496.

Here is what the Guardian published.


Debris in sea not related to missing jet

Following the press conference with the Indonesian vice president, Jusuf Kalla, the understanding is now that the debris spotted by an Australian search plane is unrelated to the missing AirAsia jet. This from AFP quotes him as saying:

“It has been checked and no sufficient evidence was found to confirm what was reported.”

Kalla said there were 15 ships and 30 aircraft searching the area. “It is not an easy operation in the sea, especially in bad weather like this,” he said.

Indonesian Air Force spokesman Hadi Tjahjanto told AFP the search was now focused on a patch of oil spotted off Belitung island in the Java Sea.

“We are making sure whether it was avtur (aviation fuel) from the AirAsia plane or from a vessel because that location is a shipping line,” he said.

Australia, Singapore and Malaysia have deployed planes and ships to assist in the Indonesian search for Flight QZ8501, which disappeared over the Java Sea on Sunday en route to Singapore.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...at-first-light#block-54a11440e4b084424a7b2c2d

Oh ok. So the statement was the press conference of the vice president which I also saw. Didn't realize those were the same.

 

[SouthAussie]

17m ago Air search suspended

As darkness descends upon the Java Sea, the aerial search has now been suspended both CNN and the BBC are reporting.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...at-first-light#block-54a11440e4b084424a7b2c2d

 

[nrdsb4]

The more the weather stuff is coming about with more details, it results in feeling bad for the folks on board - in that i think they had a hellish violent finale

That is one of the reasons I'm so terrified when I fly. It's not just the dying, it's the horror prior to. I can only think of a few worse ways to die than that.

ETA: My fears don't stop me from traveling. But I do have thoughts about going down like that, and I'm sure that many of the surviving family members will be tortured now with thoughts about what their beloveds may have gone through before they died.

 

[nrdsb4]

The passenger manifest also shows the seat numbers of the 23 no-shows, and one was 1A ... something does not seem right here.

Unless 1A showed up, checked a bag, and THEN proceeded not to board, how is that meaningful?

 

[Hatfield]

I was watching someone on the news and I think I finally understand how a windy thunderstorm could cause a plane to stall. Nobody knows for sure yet what happened to the plane but I am thinking a stall is likely after finally understanding it. Ill try to describe how it was explained.

Lets assume the wind speed of the severest part of the storm is 150 MPH going right towards the plane.

Then lets say the ground speed of the plane was only 100 MPH (which is what they think based on the track + time calculations) which is very slow according to them.

So, the pilot is actually having wind go over the wing at 150+100 = 250 MPH which is plenty to keep it flying. But then lets say the pilot decided to go upwards in a climb which takes power + speed to keep it flying. Now, he would be fine so long as the wind speed stayed steady at the 150 MPH headwind, but as soon as he climbed out of the strong headwind, the wind speed of the storm could drop dramatically and lets assume it dropped to 0 just for example. That would mean the pilot was trying to climb at only 100 MPH which is dangerously low to try for a climb.

So, a stall could occur in that situation as soon as pilot left the strong headwind. That was basically how it was described. The pilot may have been going too slow to begin with, and with the strong headwind he thought he was going plenty fast enough. Then if he got out of the strong headwind into a spot that had hardly any headwind and if he was trying a steep climb at the same time, then if he did not have enough thrust or power, then the engine would stall.

Which is frightening to think about because it means it could go into an unctrollable dive. He said if the engines could be restarted in time during a dive, he may have been able to pull it out of a steep dive, but he also said that panic and lack of being able to train in a large plane doing a real stall in bad weather would not give the chances very good.

Prayers for all people + families on board.

 

[SouthAussie]

Two Singapore C-130s will be flying sorties over the area tomorrow. Two of their three allotted ships have arrived in the area and commenced searching. And there is this ...


The latest update from transport ministry and aviation authority in Singapore confirms that earlier today, Indonesia accepted Singapore’s offer of two teams of specialists and two sets of underwater locator beacon detectors from the Singapore Ministry of Transport’s Air Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB), to assist in locating the flight data recorders of the missing Indonesia AirAsia aircraft, QZ8501.

This afternoon the release says, Singapore also offered additional equipment and personnel from the Maritime and Port Authority of Singapore (MPA) to support the AAIB operations, including a sidescan sonar system and a robotic remotely-operated vehicle.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...at-first-light#block-54a141d3e4b0ab1ee5e5663d


Let's hope that light of a new day will bring success and some small (though heartbreaking) relief for the families.

 

[Hatfield]

Two Singapore C-130s will be flying sorties over the area tomorrow. Two of their three allotted ships have arrived in the area and commenced searching. And there is this ...


The latest update from transport ministry and aviation authority in Singapore confirms that earlier today, Indonesia accepted Singapore’s offer of two teams of specialists and two sets of underwater locator beacon detectors from the Singapore Ministry of Transport’s Air Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB), to assist in locating the flight data recorders of the missing Indonesia AirAsia aircraft, QZ8501.

This afternoon the release says, Singapore also offered additional equipment and personnel from the Maritime and Port Authority of Singapore (MPA) to support the AAIB operations, including a sidescan sonar system and a robotic remotely-operated vehicle.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...at-first-light#block-54a141d3e4b0ab1ee5e5663d


Let's hope that light of a new day will bring success and some small (though heartbreaking) relief for the families.

Its good to hear of all the help coming out to help search for the plane. As compared to MH370 they are obviously reacting much quicker and with many more resources than we saw with the beginning of the MH370 search.

They should have a good chance of finding this plane because the known flight path was pretty well documented when last contact with the plane. They said on the news that they are in a 240 square mile search zone right now and hope to narrow it down even further if they get more data.

At some point, I wish the public could ban together and force all airlines to install some sort of GPS signal transmission to the control centers like once every 30 seconds. Then we could have an accurate position of every plane every 30 seconds sent to control towers.

I realize that it is expensive however when you add up the waisted money searching like in MH370 it seems it would pay for itself. Maybe some regulation could force all airlines to install something like that.

 

[Hatfield]

That is one of the reasons I'm so terrified when I fly. It's not just the dying, it's the horror prior to. I can only think of a few worse ways to die than that.

ETA: My fears don't stop me from traveling. But I do have thoughts about going down like that, and I'm sure that many of the surviving family members will be tortured now with thoughts about what their beloveds may have gone through before they died.

I am similar in that I do worry but it doesnt stop me from flying if I have to. I dont like the "not in control" part because I have to rely on the pilot and the plane which I have no control over.
I am one of those people that always likes to be the driver of a car and I hate being a passenger because I feel so out of control.

When flying in a plane , i try to keep reminding myself that the odds are still very good that all will be ok. The odds are overwhelming good that everyone will be ok because of the millions of flights that arrive safely. So it becomes an odds thing for me. That does give me quite a bit of help to reduce the nervesnous. But I still dont like it. The landing for me is the worst part. Coming in for a landing is when I get the most stressed out.

 

[Emi]

I am not afraid to fly but will never be on AirAsia or Malaysia airlines

 

[SCHMAE]

.....not enjoying a sinus event and went down for a bit and am now up and surprised that there has been zero. I am moving more and more toward a complete and total disintegration 5 miles up as a result of a down draft or updraft that just shredded the thing mid air. Instant disintegration, black box problem if this is the situation tho. Just pondering under the influence of sinus drugs -- who knows maybe this is all a bad dream and everyone is fine.

If I tell any of you shortly I found it ,do not believe me I am eating more sinus crap at this time. My spelling and typing are hideous absent of substances - so we could be in for an interesting post or two excelling my superior typing and spelling skill set! ha

OT , I've had many sinus events this year and I found a little trick that helps a bit temporarily. Rub some icy hot or tiger's balm on your cheek bones and eyebrow bones. It's fleeting but it helps some !

 

[SCHMAE]

Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott …….“I think it would be a big mistake to equate what happened here with MH370” Abbott told Sydney radio station 2GB after budget airline AirAsia said a flight carrying 162 people was missing.

“MH370, as things stand, is one of the great mysteries of our time. It doesn’t appear that there is any particular mystery here”.

“It’s an aircraft that was flying a regular route on a regular schedule, it struck what appears to be horrific weather, and it’s down. But this is not a mystery like the MH370 disappearance and it's not an atrocity like the MH17 shooting down”.

http://www.news24.com/World/News/Missing-AirAsia-plane-no-MH370-mystery-Abbott-20141229


.

Any time heads of state tell us over and over about two unrelated events that appear related at first glance, I am super suspicious and tinfoiling to the max !

 

[SCHMAE]

I was watching someone on the news and I think I finally understand how a windy thunderstorm could cause a plane to stall. Nobody knows for sure yet what happened to the plane but I am thinking a stall is likely after finally understanding it. Ill try to describe how it was explained.

Lets assume the wind speed of the severest part of the storm is 150 MPH going right towards the plane.

Then lets say the ground speed of the plane was only 100 MPH (which is what they think based on the track + time calculations) which is very slow according to them.

So, the pilot is actually having wind go over the wing at 150+100 = 250 MPH which is plenty to keep it flying. But then lets say the pilot decided to go upwards in a climb which takes power + speed to keep it flying. Now, he would be fine so long as the wind speed stayed steady at the 150 MPH headwind, but as soon as he climbed out of the strong headwind, the wind speed of the storm could drop dramatically and lets assume it dropped to 0 just for example. That would mean the pilot was trying to climb at only 100 MPH which is dangerously low to try for a climb.

So, a stall could occur in that situation as soon as pilot left the strong headwind. That was basically how it was described. The pilot may have been going too slow to begin with, and with the strong headwind he thought he was going plenty fast enough. Then if he got out of the strong headwind into a spot that had hardly any headwind and if he was trying a steep climb at the same time, then if he did not have enough thrust or power, then the engine would stall.

Which is frightening to think about because it means it could go into an unctrollable dive. He said if the engines could be restarted in time during a dive, he may have been able to pull it out of a steep dive, but he also said that panic and lack of being able to train in a large plane doing a real stall in bad weather would not give the chances very good.

Prayers for all people + families on board.

I'm picturing a bird on a really windy day. He's flapping and flapping his wings trying to fly into the wind but he's not moving at all. Eventually he will sink a bit and come back UP to get some speed going and fly through it . Or sometimes I see them turn around and give up .

 

[Hatfield]

I'm picturing a bird on a really windy day. He's flapping and flapping his wings trying to fly into the wind but he's not moving at all. Eventually he will sink a bit and come back UP to get some speed going and fly through it . Or sometimes I see them turn around and give up .

Good analogy. I've seen crows give up too trying to fly into a strong headwind.

I had watched a lot of Utube videos in the past of air disasters and have picked up some interesting things from them. One of them was something that goes against normal thinking when flying. They were talking about how to get more airspeed quickly if the plane is in trouble. If the plane is in trouble and someone needs to get more speed, a quick way is to point the nose down and basically puposely fly downwards. It makes perfect sense but goes against human intuition if your plane is in trouble. You by instinct dont want to point the nose of the plane down toward the ground when you are in trouble but that is precisely what you want to do in order to gain good airspeed in a flash.
Most all pilots know this, but it does make you wonder if they get in a panic, would all people be able to remember their training.

Going back to thunderstorm winds. The other thing that can also happen is the wind can change direction dramatically. Like you could be getting a good headwind and the next thing you know you may have a tailwind instead as you fly through the storm.

Here is another example of how winds can change direction in storms.
I felt the after affects as a hurricane was fizzleing out once and passing through. The wind was going in one direction and about 3 hours later the wind was in the completely opposite direction. I suppose a small storm could be similar in that if a plane flew through it, the winds could be completely different direction on the other side of it.

So was kind of thinking about that if the plane was going too slow to begin with and then if the wind changed to give a tailwind, it would basically be a negative wind. So lets say the pilot had 100 MHP groundspeed and normal 100 MPH wind passing over the wing. If a strong tailwind started to happen at lets say 100MPH coming up from the rear of plane towards the nose, it would negate all his wind going over the wing, and he would have a net of 0 MPH going over the wing. Result would be to fall out of sky in that condition. But you would hope he could go into a dive and regain control of course.

 

[Elainera]

I'm picturing a bird on a really windy day. He's flapping and flapping his wings trying to fly into the wind but he's not moving at all. Eventually he will sink a bit and come back UP to get some speed going and fly through it . Or sometimes I see them turn around and give up .

I wish that pilot had turned around

 

[Isabelle]

OT , I've had many sinus events this year and I found a little trick that helps a bit temporarily. Rub some icy hot or tiger's balm on your cheek bones and eyebrow bones. It's fleeting but it helps some !

OT for sinus help: sit in chair and rest back of your head against the back of chair. Tilt head slowly side to side. This helps move air in sinuses and helps drainage.

 

[Emi]

As a matter of fact around the end of January I am going to Singapore but will fly with ANA or United airlines

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Another plane crisis, in the UK this time. A flight bound for Vegas is headed back to London to make a "non standard landing", emergency services waiting on the runway.

EDIT - landed safely. Why they had to scaremonger by broadcasting it all live on BBC/Skynews I don't know (says me, putting it on here lol!)

 

[Hatfield]

As a matter of fact around the end of January I am going to Singapore but will fly with ANA or United airlines

You should be fine as the odds are still overwhelming that you will be fine.

I know what you mean about the carriers though. I dont fly very often but I have started to pay attention to what airlines I choose when I have a choice and I even started to lookup the type of plane.

Many years ago I was fooled by an airline and it was before I knew to even check on the type of plane before I booked the flight. It was a short flight and this airline had me on a propellor plane. OMG, I dont like propellor planes at all. It was really rough and loud and small and upsetting to fly on that plane. I knew it was going to be a scary flight when the stewardesses started asking people to move seats to even out the weight equally. Sometimes you dont have a choice and have to use propellor planes on small short flights. Whenever I do have a choice, I try to always at least choose a plane with a jet engine. Just makes for a much smoother flight and not so loud and scary.

A certain US carrier I avoid too because I read where they have an aging fleet of planes. It is things like that where I now start to pay attention and choose wisely whenever I can. The bad part is when you dont have a choice.