Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered

[MsFacetious]

I wonder why no mention on CNN about these objects?

I am guessing because they are just behind.
I highly doubt they learned lessons and decided not to report on it.

Dispise fox but feeled compell to share that a meter gas conversion did reult in a major aviation event in that the jetliner ran out of fuel cause the conversion was in error. It was quite an amazing feat of pilot a 767 to the ground with no engine!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

A bad conversion of pounds and kilograms also resulted in a plane going down due to being too heavy.
This one went down due to being overloaded as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/09/us/21-die-in-commuter-plane-crash-in-north-carolina.html

 

[IndianSummer]

Flight altitude request was refused
http://www.key103.co.uk/news/uk-and-world/20141229-airasia-flight-s-altitude-request-was-refused/


This is troubling IMO. The skies should not be so busy that a plane cannot have an "out".
I guess it's all about the bottom thing, money.
Money can't bring 2 yr old Zoe Choi or the others back.
JMO

 

[MsFacetious]

Summary

We’re going to close our live coverage of the search for the day, and plan to resume shortly before search operations do tomorrow morning local time in Indonesia.

Flight QZ8501 disappeared on Sunday flying from Surabaya, Indonesia, to Singapore, after last being seen on radar at 6.17am.
The plane took off at 5.35am and was scheduled to arrive about two hours later with 162 passengers on board.

Indonesian officials believe QZ8501 is likely “on the bottom of the sea”, search and rescue chief Bambang Soelistyo said.
The pilots were denied a request to increase altitude to avoid a storm shortly before losing contact, but gave no distress signal.

The aerial search has been called off for a second night.
No aircraft or ships have detected any sign of wreckage or traces of the plane, though crews will test oil slicks in the heavily trafficked area to see whether they contain aviation fuel.

Families’ hopes dimmed despite officials’ vows to continue searching.
Family and friends of the Indonesian pilot began grieving, and officials have prepared counseling services for families.
The brother of a UK citizen on board the flight told the Guardian he is “prepared for the worst” and the sister of the French co-pilot said “When a plane falls out of the sky there are hardly any survivors.”

Officials said the search area will expand Tuesday, as France, Australia, Malaysia, Singapore and China all joined the search effort with crew, ships and aircraft.
Singapore has extra vessels ready to join in tomorrow’s search including a ship with submarine capability.
Weather has so far impeded search efforts across the large but relatively shallow sea.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rch-for-missing-flight-resumes-at-first-light

 

[Peliman]

A couple snips from what I'm reading. I never know how accurate reports have become.

SURABAYA, Indonesia (AP) - The plane sought permission to climb above threatening clouds. Air traffic control couldn't say yes immediately - there was no room. Six other commercial airliners were crowding the surrounding airspace, forcing AirAsia Flight 8501 to remain at a lower altitude.

Sarjono Joni, a former pilot with a state-run Indonesian carrier, said the usual course of action when planes run into rough weather is to veer either left or right. A request to climb would most likely come if the plane was experiencing heavy turbulence or otherwise causing serious passenger discomfort, he said.

He added that heavy traffic is not unusual for any given airspace. The twin-engine, single-aisle plane was last seen on radar four minutes after the final communication from the cockpit.

http://www.wfla.com/story/27719554/unclear-whether-oil-objects-found-in-sea-linked-to-lost-jet

 

[SuziQ]

I couldn't tell you where I heard this, It was in MSM. But that the pilots request was refused because there was another airline in the space he wanted to go to.

 

[Hatfield]

Flight altitude request was refused
http://www.key103.co.uk/news/uk-and-world/20141229-airasia-flight-s-altitude-request-was-refused/


This is troubling IMO. The skies should not be so busy that a plane cannot have an "out".
I guess it's all about the bottom thing, money.
Money can't bring 2 yr old Zoe Choi or the others back.
JMO

That bothered me too when I heard they were denied permission. It has always amazed me that so many planes follow the same basic flight path. I suppose airlines do that because they are proven flight paths and they can time takeoffs and landings but I wonder why they cannot shift flight paths horizontally and keep planes away from each other and not on the same basic track line.
It probably comes down to money and certain airlines have certain tracks. Im not sure if spreading out track lines horizontally would make it any safer or make it more confusing and maybe worse.

It was upsetting though when I heard they were denied permission to deviate their course. That seemed unbelievable to me when I heard about that. When the news was first breaking I noticed they never mentioned that permission was denied. I only heard about the pilot asking for a deviation. Then many hours later I finally heard they were denied it. It was almost like that info was being hidden at first.

 

[IndianSummer]

http://isp.netscape.com/pf/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/1001/20141229/2933.htm
The plane sought permission to climb above threatening clouds. Air traffic control couldn't say yes immediately — there was no room. SIX other commercial airliners were crowding the surrounding airspace, FORCING AirAsia Flight 8501 to remain at a lower altitude.

 

[MsFacetious]

However, if what we have heard is correct he started climbing ANYWAY.
We have been told he was at 32K.
However the last radar allegedly shows him at 36K.
If that information is correct... he was in such a bad situation that he climbed despite the danger of other aircraft. :twocents:

 

[Hatfield]

A couple snips from what I'm reading. I never know how accurate reports have become.

SURABAYA, Indonesia (AP) - The plane sought permission to climb above threatening clouds. Air traffic control couldn't say yes immediately - there was no room. Six other commercial airliners were crowding the surrounding airspace, forcing AirAsia Flight 8501 to remain at a lower altitude.

Sarjono Joni, a former pilot with a state-run Indonesian carrier, said the usual course of action when planes run into rough weather is to veer either left or right. A request to climb would most likely come if the plane was experiencing heavy turbulence or otherwise causing serious passenger discomfort, he said.

He added that heavy traffic is not unusual for any given airspace. The twin-engine, single-aisle plane was last seen on radar four minutes after the final communication from the cockpit.

http://www.wfla.com/story/27719554/unclear-whether-oil-objects-found-in-sea-linked-to-lost-jet

A person on the news last night said that 4 minutes was just about the same time another plane that had trouble at cruising altitude ended up in the water.

I had posted a question in the MH370 thread and would like to ask it here too. Does anybody think that the reason there could be little to no debri would be if the plane ended up doing a perfect vertical entry into the water?

Like in the Olympics when a professional diver gets a 10 and there is little to no splash. Is it possible that a plane could do such a thing and maybe not break up much like we normally would think?
I've been wondering a lot about that lately since it seems the debri is so hard to find so far.

 

[MsFacetious]

The wings would still come off... and those are huge compared to other parts.
I guess it's possible, but I can't think of a case where it's happened.

In controversial SilkAir Flight 185 they basically did that - nose dived vertically in the water.
However, the plane still "exploded" upon impact and debris were everywhere.
This COULD be partly due to the depth of where it went down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185

However, when you remember hitting water is like hitting concrete....
I think it's unlikely a plane could go in basically in one piece at that kind of speed. :twocents:

A person on the news last night said that 4 minutes was just about the same time another plane that had trouble at cruising altitude ended up in the water.

I had posted a question in the MH370 thread and would like to ask it here too. Does anybody think that the reason there could be little to no debri would be if the plane ended up doing a perfect vertical entry into the water?

Like in the Olympics when a professional diver gets a 10 and there is little to no splash. Is it possible that a plane could do such a thing and maybe not break up much like we normally would think?
I've been wondering a lot about that lately since it seems the debri is so hard to find so far.

 

[Hatfield]

However, if what we have heard is correct he started climbing ANYWAY.
We have been told he was at 32K.
However the last radar allegedly shows him at 36K.
If that information is correct... he was in such a bad situation that he climbed despite the danger of other aircraft. :twocents:

I agree he may have had to move no matter what they said. That turbulance can get really bad. We have heard of incidents where people fly up and hit the ceiling. Some news people say that when denied they usually go left or right to avoid a storm. But if storm is really wide, he may have done what he could.

Earlier in this thread , there is a radar image of the planes in the area at time of disappearance and it did not look like too many planes were near that plane. I suppose the control tower has to plan way ahead but even so, it seems they could have given him permission for at least 15 minutes or so and then tell him to go back down or something. I didnt see too many planes that were on top of him or anything like that.

 

[Hatfield]

The wings would still come off... and those are huge compared to other parts.
I guess it's possible, but I can't think of a case where it's happened.

In controversial SilkAir Flight 185 they basically did that - nose dived vertically in the water.
However, the plane still "exploded" upon impact and debris were everywhere.
This COULD be partly due to the depth of where it went down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185

However, when you remember hitting water is like hitting concrete....
I think it's unlikely a plane could go in basically in one piece at that kind of speed. :twocents:

Yeah, that makes sense it would basically explode apart no matter how perfect an entry. The speed would be incredible and forces when hitting the water should be enough to tear it apart. It is just so surprising how it seems to be so difficult to find debri field. I suppose the area to search is just so vast, it must be a daunting task to try to find it.

The bad part too is as time goes by, any debri field would begin to separate apart and make it harder to find. That is why I was hoping they would find it quickly. It will become harder to find as the pieces spread apart. Although I suppose it may get a little easier to spot an individual piece because they will begin to be all over the place. Kind of a double edged sword there.

 

[Peliman]

ALL Speculation on my part

It's all a mystery to me and I have questions myself. It would not surprise me that something similar to that question happened but I do agree with MsFactious the wings would come off.

Now if they did go straight like an arrow even with the wings coming off, they might have submerged enough to sink instead of float, I'm not sure. I just feel it will be found four minutes from the last radar image.

Here's what I feel happened which will probably be a mix of weather and pilot error but I know nothing certain.

From this link is what I'm feeling. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...low-when-it-hit-thunderstorm-expert-says.html

“The QZ8501 was flying too slow, about 100 knots which is about 160km/h too slow. At that altitude that’s exceedingly dangerous,” Mr Thomas said.

“I have a radar plot which shows him at 36,000 feet and climbing at a speed of 353 knots, which is approximately 100 knots too slow ... if the radar return is correct, he appears to be going too slow for the altitude he is flying at.”

Mr Thomas said this should not happen in an A320, a sophisticated aircraft, so it appears as though it’s related to extreme weather conditions.“He got caught in a massive updraft or something like that. Something’s gone terribly wrong,” he said.

A person on the news last night said that 4 minutes was just about the same time another plane that had trouble at cruising altitude ended up in the water.

I had posted a question in the MH370 thread and would like to ask it here too. Does anybody think that the reason there could be little to no debri would be if the plane ended up doing a perfect vertical entry into the water?

Like in the Olympics when a professional diver gets a 10 and there is little to no splash. Is it possible that a plane could do such a thing and maybe not break up much like we normally would think?
I've been wondering a lot about that lately since it seems the debri is so hard to find so far.

 

[MsFacetious]

That link is also what I am thinking happened.
That is where we got the 36k from... which is not where he was supposed to be.
Generally when turbulence drops you a few thousand feet it DROPS you... it doesn't lift you up.

I think he was intentionally climbing trying to escape a black part of the storm.
I think the pitot tube may have frozen over.
I think he thought he was going faster than he was and he stalled. :twocents:

 

[Isabelle]

These planes don't break up when they hit the water??!! Strange

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Sorry if this has been covered - but what's happening with the black box pings?
I am not really understanding why nothing has been found today, they have a much smaller area to look at compared to MH370. Confused...

 

[Hatfield]

Sorry if this has been covered - but what's happening with the black box pings?
I am not really understanding why nothing has been found today, they have a much smaller area to look at compared to MH370. Confused...

I dont have a link and I could be wrong about this but I could have sworn I read yesterday about this. I think I read yesterday that they had a ship or 2 that is ready to go out to listen for the pings by dragging around one of those ping locator detectors. From what I recall reading about it, it sounded like they werent yet going to send it out because I think they are expecting to first find the debris field which would show them a good search zone to send the boats to try to find the black box pings.

JMO, I think they should go ahead and send the ping locator boats out ASAP. I dont think waiting to find a debri field is a good idea. There is no harm in trying to listen for pings right away. They could always move the boats if they find the debri field.

 

[Hatfield]

ALL Speculation on my part

It's all a mystery to me and I have questions myself. It would not surprise me that something similar to that question happened but I do agree with MsFactious the wings would come off.

Now if they did go straight like an arrow even with the wings coming off, they might have submerged enough to sink instead of float, I'm not sure. I just feel it will be found four minutes from the last radar image.

Here's what I feel happened which will probably be a mix of weather and pilot error but I know nothing certain.

From this link is what I'm feeling. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...low-when-it-hit-thunderstorm-expert-says.html

“The QZ8501 was flying too slow, about 100 knots which is about 160km/h too slow. At that altitude that’s exceedingly dangerous,” Mr Thomas said.

“I have a radar plot which shows him at 36,000 feet and climbing at a speed of 353 knots, which is approximately 100 knots too slow ... if the radar return is correct, he appears to be going too slow for the altitude he is flying at.”

Mr Thomas said this should not happen in an A320, a sophisticated aircraft, so it appears as though it’s related to extreme weather conditions.“He got caught in a massive updraft or something like that. Something’s gone terribly wrong,” he said.

I agree with the basic premise in that link. It sounds logical that he was trying to go up to avoid the storm and due to his slow speed he most likely stalled the plane.

It would be interesting to do some experiments with dropping planes straight down from very high heights to see how they react when hitting the water. We have seen other simulated plane accidents where they purposely wrecked a plane over land. Would like to see them do an experiment where they nose-dived one straight into the water.

 

[jamiect]

Video of AirAsia flight QZ8501 vanishing off the radar.
To help identify plane they have a white box above it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqqkOczpCiI#t=14

 

[iulia]

I just checked Tomnod and I see they added a campaign to help find QZ8501.