Revisit - Did CA/GA cover up 7-16-08

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I don't get it and it doesn't become any clearer, no matter how many posts I read. Cindy's My Space message says that she was worried for Caylee's welfare, "no money, no future... who is taking care of the angel now" ? Cindy knew then, probably before then, that Caylee was at risk, yet no call to LE or CPS.

Were they covering on July 16th ? Yep, they sure were, they were covering on the 15th when they drove that car home without calling LE. Cindy said to Casey "what have you done" ? But moments later she was calling 911 to report a missing child who had been kidnapped by the "nanny"...she was reporting Caylee missing because she had the nanny who was responsible for this crime, her daughter was in the clear (or so she thought).

ITA Yellow Submarine, Cindy and George have and continue to fail Caylee miserably. Even at this late date they can not stand up for the only victim in this tragedy, thankfully the state and others (ie; the Grunds) will stand up in their place.

BBM. Thank you, Searchfortruth; you made it all click for me. Cindy felt freed to finally call LE when Casey gave her someone other than Casey to blame for Caylee's death. Cindy had to have been adding the stinky car, Caylee's absence and Casey's avoidance together and had to have been thinking Casey was involved in Caylee's death. ("What have you done?") But she couldn't make that 911 call until Casey gave her someone else to point the finger at. That's why Cindy waited so long ~ she had no one else to blame except Casey until that moment. Explains a lot to me. Thanks, Searchfortruth!

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

I don't get it and it doesn't become any clearer, no matter how many posts I read. Cindy's My Space message says that she was worried for Caylee's welfare, "no money, no future... who is taking care of the angel now" ? Cindy knew then, probably before then, that Caylee was at risk, yet no call to LE or CPS.

Were they covering on July 16th ? Yep, they sure were, they were covering on the 15th when they drove that car home without calling LE. Cindy said to Casey "what have you done" ? But moments later she was calling 911 to report a missing child who had been kidnapped by the "nanny"...she was reporting Caylee missing because she had the nanny who was responsible for this crime, her daughter was in the clear (or so she thought).

ITA Yellow Submarine, Cindy and George have and continue to fail Caylee miserably. Even at this late date they can not stand up for the only victim in this tragedy, thankfully the state and others (ie; the Grunds) will stand up in their place.

The A's are not "The Stand Up" kind of family. For a family to be that, they would have to have values and morals. The family would have to choose right over wrong in situations to be a Stand Up kind of family. The family would have friends and neighbors coming forward to fight this battle for them because the Stand Up family has always been there for them. No, we are not dealing with "The Stand Up" family, we are dealing with the "CYA" family, and they are a island of their own making.JMO.

 

[countzero]

I don't get it and it doesn't become any clearer, no matter how many posts I read. Cindy's My Space message says that she was worried for Caylee's welfare, "no money, no future... who is taking care of the angel now" ? Cindy knew then, probably before then, that Caylee was at risk, yet no call to LE or CPS.

Were they covering on July 16th ? Yep, they sure were, they were covering on the 15th when they drove that car home without calling LE. Cindy said to Casey "what have you done" ? But moments later she was calling 911 to report a missing child who had been kidnapped by the "nanny"...she was reporting Caylee missing because she had the nanny who was responsible for this crime, her daughter was in the clear (or so she thought).

ITA Yellow Submarine, Cindy and George have and continue to fail Caylee miserably. Even at this late date they can not stand up for the only victim in this tragedy, thankfully the state and others (ie; the Grunds) will stand up in their place.

The A's are not "The Stand Up" kind of family. For a family to be that, they would have to have values and morals. The family would have to choose right over wrong in situations to be a Stand Up kind of family. The family would have friends and neighbors coming forward to fight this battle for them because the Stand Up family has always been there for them. No, we are not dealing with "The Stand Up" family, we are dealing with the "CYA" family, and they are a island of their own making.JMO.

Thank both of you. Many of us have been thinking and saying this for months. I am not about to challenge anyone or bully them into thinking CA is a real person, but I cannot understand why out of all the lies and manipulations CA has said and done, that some people can believe her 911 call was believable. It just boggles my wee mind and rattles my brain cells. She is a leopard who doesn't and can't change her spots. Her claws come out in protection mode with KC, but not with Caylee. Who she has conveniently traded in for the old model KC and got money as a bonus.

 

[MAMABEAR]

Thank both of you. Many of us have been thinking and saying this for months. I am not about to challenge anyone or bully them into thinking CA is a real person, but I cannot understand why out of all the lies and manipulations CA has said and done, that some people can believe her 911 call was believable. It just boggles my wee mind and rattles my brain cells. She is a leopard who doesn't and can't change her spots. Her claws come out in protection mode with KC, but not with Caylee. Who she has conveniently traded in for the old model KC and got money as a bonus.

I don't think the 911 call was real. I just can't figure out when the cover up begin. Anywhere from June 15, 2008-July 15, 2008.

 

[countzero]

I don't think the 911 call was real. I just can't figure out when the cover up begin. Anywhere from June 15, 2008-July 15, 2008.

I believe that CA/GA/LA all knew about Caylee's murder immediately if not soon after. They all thought the plan conceived would work, but KC didn't go along with it for one reason or another. Being pizzed, who knows.

But the actual coverup began the momentsw that envelope was opened, CA got pizzy with the tow charge and GA knew the tow yard guy smelled decomp as much as GA did.

THEY KNEW. CA texts KC to call her immediately, big problem. CA retrieves KC and the zanny-nanny story is implemented. CA makes 911 calls and no one pays attention to her -- boo-hoo. CA then goes into CA mode and cries about the smell in the car to grab the attention of the 911 operator. Betcha CA was in panic mode for about 48 hours wondering if the tow yard notified LE about the decomp odor. Finding out he didn't ...... surprise--surprise ...... decomp becomes molded and rotten, what 17 days in the hot Florida sun pizza :hand:

The rest is recorded history for all future law students.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Of course I am open minded to all theories and ideas. The only hesitation I have with "the 911 call wasn't real" is WHY would CA call then? No one outside the family would be missing Caylee. kc obviously kept her hidden for 31 days. So why call 911 and chance being found out?

 

[MAMABEAR]

Of course I am open minded to all theories and ideas. The only hesitation I have with "the 911 call wasn't real" is WHY would CA call then? No one outside the family would be missing Caylee. kc obviously kept her hidden for 31 days. So why call 911 and chance being found out?

Well, the guy at the tow yard could have called the cops about the smell. That is the only witness they had. Maybe she figured he might just do that. I think thats when KC brought her other ID---ZFG. She knew she wasn't going to get away from CA with LA standing guard so she said ZFG had her. They write the Script as they go. Play it by ear till it plays out. Funny how all that work went into the Script and they can't even use it---backfired!

 

[countzero]

Of course I am open minded to all theories and ideas. The only hesitation I have with "the 911 call wasn't real" is WHY would CA call then? No one outside the family would be missing Caylee. kc obviously kept her hidden for 31 days. So why call 911 and chance being found out?

The A clan was found out July 15, 08 when they car discovered the car. This is the only reason why the 911 calls were made. Not that Caylee was murdered, missing. It was simply a CYA for CMA.

CA/GA knew the tow yard people smelled decomp odor. The panic must have set in as soon as GA pulled into the garage. CA wondering if the tow yard called LE as soon as GA left. They needed, out of self preservation :loser:s , to call LE. They needed to get KC on board with the coverup.

There are so many scenarios I could come up with or scenarios used in tv/movie plots. The zanny-nanny scenario served its purpose.

By the way, who is to say that CA/GA/LA didn't know the car had been abandoned? We know that there is NO one in Orlando who can substantiate the stories KC allegedly told CA/GA. There is no one. All the stories told by CA/GA/LA are hearsay. Not one person witnessed nor observed these conversations.

We do know that KC told her "friends" that Caylee was with the nanny or CA. We know that KC told many lies to AH as well as others.

 

[claudicici]

....i do believe at the time ca made that call she still thought caylee was just being kept away from her....i think she used that call as a last resort to make kc talk....to make kc take her to caylee....after that did not work and kc told the story i do believe she talked herself into believing that caylee was kidnapped ,i believe until this very day ca has that ability,to make something impossible real in her head....i don't think she believes she was ever covering anything ,all she was doing in her mind is sticking to her own reality , the covering up she was doing was only for her own benefit. kc invented the story for ca,ga tagged along for ca....it's always about her ....ca is the dominant figure in all of this....

 

[RR0004]

Thank both of you. Many of us have been thinking and saying this for months. I am not about to challenge anyone or bully them into thinking CA is a real person, but I cannot understand why out of all the lies and manipulations CA has said and done, that some people can believe her 911 call was believable. It just boggles my wee mind and rattles my brain cells. She is a leopard who doesn't and can't change her spots. Her claws come out in protection mode with KC, but not with Caylee. Who she has conveniently traded in for the old model KC and got money as a bonus.

That last call may be believable in the sense that Cindy just learned that Caylee was gone. The whole "nanny took her" could have been a mutually decided story at that point. Think about this, should we believe what the family said prior to Casey's arrest to be true when everything since has been nothing but a bunch of "mistruths"? I have recently replayed (in my mind) Lee's visit to the house that night. GA wanted him there for Cindy. Sorry, after smelling that car- new job or no new job- HE should have gone home. IMO, that was way too much responsibility to lay on Lee. It wasn't his job to handle his mother. Lee said Casey would talk to HIM...yet he had been unsuccessful in reaching her during the time she was gone from the house. Personally, I'd like to see HIS phone records and text messages. I think GA told Lee to go to the house for another reason. The family had to decide what to do from that point on. I think any investigation Lee may have done was to try and figure out what led Casey to do what she did...not to find an imaginary person. Did he go to SG apartments and knock on every door? I believe he may have wanted to try and collect as much information as he could so the family could know and explain away (?) as much as they could in order to protect Casey. From July 16th on...I never got the feeling that anything they did was about Caylee.

ETA: This opinion is subject to change (LOL).

 

[claudicici]

...no,it was not about caylee at all...lee i truly believe with all my heart was thinking he could reach her,he's just a fool,kc knows that and ca knows it....all the men in their world are just fools...

 

[countzero]

That last call may be believable in the sense that Cindy just learned that Caylee was gone. The whole "nanny took her" could have been a mutually decided story at that point. Think about this, should we believe what the family said prior to Casey's arrest to be true when everything since has been nothing but a bunch of "mistruths"? I have recently replayed (in my mind) Lee's visit to the house that night. GA wanted him there for Cindy. Sorry, after smelling that car- new job or no new job- HE should have gone home. IMO, that was way too much responsibility to lay on Lee. It wasn't his job to handle his mother. Lee said Casey would talk to HIM...yet he had been unsuccessful in reaching her during the time she was gone from the house. Personally, I'd like to see HIS phone records and text messages. I think GA told Lee to go to the house for another reason. The family had to decide what to do from that point on. I think any investigation Lee may have done was to try and figure out what led Casey to do what she did...not to find an imaginary person. Did he go to SG apartments and knock on every door? I believe he may have wanted to try and collect as much information as he could so the family could know and explain away (?) as much as they could in order to protect Casey. From July 16th on...I never got the feeling that anything they did was about Caylee.

ETA: This opinion is subject to change (LOL).

I see your understanding and wanting to believe CA's 911 call. I certainly can understand anyone who can look at others without judgement. On the surface, without knowing personality backgrounds, CA's call would appear to be genuine.

Once the dynamics of the A clan was released publicly, hearing from immediate family members, that rose colored portrait of a "happy, well adjusted" family is suddenly shattered. The actuality becomes reality for all to view and judge.

People with CA's personalities do not change. They change their delivery. CA didn't get the attention from the previous 911 calls. She knew she had to convey "urgency" in her delivery. And boy did she reach down into her belly to gather her acting abilities and deliver the grieving grandparent act. She delivered the same speech, but toned down, to her co-workers. Notice how she "blew" them off. But she managed to do what she set out to do. Lay the ground work of the coverup plan.

Both CA/GA knew LE would get involved. Either the tow yard would notify LE or they would have to. You can not hide decomp odor from those who know it. If CA/GA found the car BEFORE it was towed, it could have been torched, pushed into a lake who knows, but CA/GA would have reported it stolen, collected insurance. End of story; end of Caylee.

One has to know these personalities to see them for what they are. They are actors. The entire A clan are actors who change their costumes depending on the scene they are playing. Good thing LE has witnessed this poorly directed acting and sees it for what it truly is. CA/GA/LA/KC didn't even receive a half star out of four rating.

 

[Tuffy]

That last call may be believable in the sense that Cindy just learned that Caylee was gone. The whole "nanny took her" could have been a mutually decided story at that point. Think about this, should we believe what the family said prior to Casey's arrest to be true when everything since has been nothing but a bunch of "mistruths"? I have recently replayed (in my mind) Lee's visit to the house that night. GA wanted him there for Cindy. Sorry, after smelling that car- new job or no new job- HE should have gone home. IMO, that was way too much responsibility to lay on Lee. It wasn't his job to handle his mother. Lee said Casey would talk to HIM...yet he had been unsuccessful in reaching her during the time she was gone from the house. Personally, I'd like to see HIS phone records and text messages. I think GA told Lee to go to the house for another reason. The family had to decide what to do from that point on. I think any investigation Lee may have done was to try and figure out what led Casey to do what she did...not to find an imaginary person. Did he go to SG apartments and knock on every door? I believe he may have wanted to try and collect as much information as he could so the family could know and explain away (?) as much as they could in order to protect Casey. From July 16th on...I never got the feeling that anything they did was about Caylee.

ETA: This opinion is subject to change (LOL).

Excellent point RR. Its funny that some statements just go unchallenged in my mind until someone points out an inconsistency like this. Lee is the one that supposedly KC would confide in. Yet, as you pointed out, he could not reach her while she was gone from the house. He also did not get any information from her when he came by the house that night. All he got was more lies from KC.

 

[Searchfortruth]

BBM. Thank you, Searchfortruth; you made it all click for me. Cindy felt freed to finally call LE when Casey gave her someone other than Casey to blame for Caylee's death. Cindy had to have been adding the stinky car, Caylee's absence and Casey's avoidance together and had to have been thinking Casey was involved in Caylee's death. ("What have you done?") But she couldn't make that 911 call until Casey gave her someone else to point the finger at. That's why Cindy waited so long ~ she had no one else to blame except Casey until that moment. Explains a lot to me. Thanks, Searchfortruth!

You are very welcome Expecting Unicorns...

I certainly believe that Cindy knew well before the third 911 call that something was wrong. She went to work after picking up the car from the tow lot and told her co-workers what was going on...their response was "call the police" ! But Cindy's response to them was "no, I am going to give Casey a chance to explain". I can't imagine being in those exact circumstances and NOT calling LE. I can't imagine waiting to give my daughter a "chance to explain" the smell of death in her trunk and a Granddaughter that has not been heard from for a month. IMO, this is a cover up in that Cindy didn't want to involve LE before she heard from Casey. Cindy knew that something had happened and there was a good chance Casey was responsible hence Cindy's comments to Amy that Casey "may be going to jail". Why would she be going to jail ? IMO, Cindy knew why and it wasn't over a "stolen car" or theft of money, it was that smell in the trunk and a missing Granddaughter.

 

[Jolynna]

There is no point to cleaning up a car if you are going to describe in detail the size of the stain and say the stain smelled like a dead body. Which is what George did. He even says he stuck his nose into it while he's detailing why he's a decomposition expert.

There's no attributing the bad smell to pizza or squirrels in George's LE interview. He asks LE to call him when they get test results so he can be the one to tell Cindy. It's obvious what he thinks caused the smell. http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Anthony%20%20George0724.pdf

According to LE reports, on July 15/16 George pulled LE aside and told them he & Cindy think KC might have harmed Caylee. He says when he first saw Cindy after he got home from work that she was sobbing she'd lost Caylee. He didn't have to say any of that. It didn't put KC in a good light.

For 31 days Cindy didn't protect KC. Instead she spread KC's reputation as a thief and sociopath to friends and family. She told all that her therapist had said to kick KC out. Casey's thieving ways and ingratitude were plastered out on a public myspace.

Cindy was in domestic squabble mode.She was out to get validation and allies while manipulating, cajoling,browbeating or tricking KC into returning Caylee. Cindy didn't have a clue the battle was over.

Nobody had to go get KC. KC was hidden, calling faithfully and having a "beautiful life". Cindy had her car back.

Nobody had to call 911. The people at Johnson's tow yard had looked inside Casey's car windows. They'd seen inside the trunk. The bag from the trunk full of maggots had been tossed in a trash bin. Problem solved as far as the tow yard was concerned.

I won't defend what Cindy or George did after July 15. Once the preliminary forensics came in, I said that Cindy knew Caylee was gone when she was showing pictures of kids at malls and McDonalds. I do believe she was trying to deflect. I'm not ok with that.

But, I don't see any efforts to cover for KC before.

 

[YellowSubmarine]

....i do believe at the time ca made that call she still thought caylee was just being kept away from her....i think she used that call as a last resort to make kc talk....to make kc take her to caylee....after that did not work and kc told the story i do believe she talked herself into believing that caylee was kidnapped ,i believe until this very day ca has that ability,to make something impossible real in her head....i don't think she believes she was ever covering anything ,all she was doing in her mind is sticking to her own reality , the covering up she was doing was only for her own benefit. kc invented the story for ca,ga tagged along for ca....it's always about her ....ca is the dominant figure in all of this....

ITA -- and this would explain where kc got her ability to create a reality and truly believe it.

Countzero, MAMABEAR, RR -- You all make excellent points disputing the validity of the 911 call and when the actual cover up began. I can see both sides of it. IMO, of course, the only realness we've seen from the A's were in between kc being brought home and the 911 call . . .

- Lee describing kc's obvious crumble with the slap of reality when she realized LE were coming and would demand to see Caylee

- CA's initial gut reaction of "What have you done!?!"

- CA telling GA "We've lost her, George, we've lost her!"

The 911 call was either the end of the realization, or the beginning of the cover up . . . . not that we'll ever know . . . .

 

[doobiedoo52]

There is no point to cleaning up a car if you are going to describe in detail the size of the stain and say the stain smelled like a dead body. Which is what George did. He even says he stuck his nose into it while he's detailing why he's a decomposition expert.

There's no attributing the bad smell to pizza or squirrels in George's LE interview. He asks LE to call him when they get test results so he can be the one to tell Cindy. It's obvious what he thinks caused the smell. http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Anthony%20%20George0724.pdf

According to LE reports, on July 15/16 George pulled LE aside and told them he & Cindy think KC might have harmed Caylee. He says when he first saw Cindy after he got home from work that she was sobbing she'd lost Caylee. He didn't have to say any of that. It didn't put KC in a good light.

For 31 days Cindy didn't protect KC. Instead she spread KC's reputation as a thief and sociopath to friends and family. She told all that her therapist had said to kick KC out. Casey's thieving ways and ingratitude were plastered out on a public myspace.

Cindy was in domestic squabble mode.She was out to get validation and allies while manipulating, cajoling,browbeating or tricking KC into returning Caylee. Cindy didn't have a clue the battle was over.

Nobody had to go get KC. KC was hidden, calling faithfully and having a "beautiful life". Cindy had her car back.

Nobody had to call 911. The people at Johnson's tow yard had looked inside Casey's car windows. They'd seen inside the trunk. The bag from the trunk full of maggots had been tossed in a trash bin. Problem solved as far as the tow yard was concerned.

I won't defend what Cindy or George did after July 15. Once the preliminary forensics came in, I said that Cindy knew Caylee was gone when she was showing pictures of kids at malls and McDonalds. I do believe she was trying to deflect. I'm not ok with that.

But, I don't see any efforts to cover for KC before.

I agree that after July 15th they did support KC and at least CA still believed her story. She was holding on to hope that Caylee was still alive and couldn't accept the truth. If they didn't want to believe her, why did they hire a private investigator when they had no money to pay for one? I don't think they were guilty of covering anything up before the 15th--just guilty of bad judgement in believing their daughter.

 

[RR0004]

I see your understanding and wanting to believe CA's 911 call. I certainly can understand anyone who can look at others without judgement. On the surface, without knowing personality backgrounds, CA's call would appear to be genuine.

Once the dynamics of the A clan was released publicly, hearing from immediate family members, that rose colored portrait of a "happy, well adjusted" family is suddenly shattered. The actuality becomes reality for all to view and judge.

People with CA's personalities do not change. They change their delivery. CA didn't get the attention from the previous 911 calls. She knew she had to convey "urgency" in her delivery. And boy did she reach down into her belly to gather her acting abilities and deliver the grieving grandparent act. She delivered the same speech, but toned down, to her co-workers. Notice how she "blew" them off. But she managed to do what she set out to do. Lay the ground work of the coverup plan.

Both CA/GA knew LE would get involved. Either the tow yard would notify LE or they would have to. You can not hide decomp odor from those who know it. If CA/GA found the car BEFORE it was towed, it could have been torched, pushed into a lake who knows, but CA/GA would have reported it stolen, collected insurance. End of story; end of Caylee.

One has to know these personalities to see them for what they are. They are actors. The entire A clan are actors who change their costumes depending on the scene they are playing. Good thing LE has witnessed this poorly directed acting and sees it for what it truly is. CA/GA/LA/KC didn't even receive a half star out of four rating.

Ok...so what you're saying is that all three calls were disingenuous? I was thinking that there was a lot more truth to the last one...that the entire family was aware at that point in time the truth about Caylee. If they knew prior to the 911 calls, both As returning to work kinda fits some sort of alibi scenario? Hmmm...so when do you think the As knew?

ETA: thanks...read above and got my answer.

 

[RR0004]

I agree that after July 15th they did support KC and at least CA still believed her story. She was holding on to hope that Caylee was still alive and couldn't accept the truth. If they didn't want to believe her, why did they hire a private investigator when they had no money to pay for one? I don't think they were guilty of covering anything up before the 15th--just guilty of bad judgement in believing their daughter.

Personally, I think the PIs were brought into the mix (IIRC one even sought the As out) to take the spotlight OFF of Casey. Remember all the false sightings? At one point in time, they were going to bring forward someone from another state who supposedly had knowledge of "something". That never happened. This person supposedly had a photo...not sure if it was of Caylee or ZFG. Sorry, it was such a long time ago. But, I find their "information" suspect as well. Interesting to see D&A still associated with the As. Not sure what I make of that.

 

[The Eunice Burns]

I see your understanding and wanting to believe CA's 911 call. I certainly can understand anyone who can look at others without judgement. On the surface, without knowing personality backgrounds, CA's call would appear to be genuine.

Once the dynamics of the A clan was released publicly, hearing from immediate family members, that rose colored portrait of a "happy, well adjusted" family is suddenly shattered. The actuality becomes reality for all to view and judge.

People with CA's personalities do not change. They change their delivery. CA didn't get the attention from the previous 911 calls. She knew she had to convey "urgency" in her delivery. And boy did she reach down into her belly to gather her acting abilities and deliver the grieving grandparent act. She delivered the same speech, but toned down, to her co-workers. Notice how she "blew" them off. But she managed to do what she set out to do. Lay the ground work of the coverup plan.

Both CA/GA knew LE would get involved. Either the tow yard would notify LE or they would have to. You can not hide decomp odor from those who know it. If CA/GA found the car BEFORE it was towed, it could have been torched, pushed into a lake who knows, but CA/GA would have reported it stolen, collected insurance. End of story; end of Caylee.

One has to know these personalities to see them for what they are. They are actors. The entire A clan are actors who change their costumes depending on the scene they are playing. Good thing LE has witnessed this poorly directed acting and sees it for what it truly is. CA/GA/LA/KC didn't even receive a half star out of four rating.

:clap: BBM: This is key to realizing what CA did. There was no urgency or desperatation on her part when she went to Gentiva and talked to her coworkers about the stench. If it had truly horrified and scared her, she wouldn't have been at Gentiva in the first place. I agree w/ everything you said. The towing changed everything. If not for that.......I've said it before, but IMO.......people act as they truly are. Leave out that we all screw up from time to time. But for something of this magnitude, the As acted from their character or lack thereof. Everything they did and did not do goes to their character. And forget that old refrain of *Nobody has been in our shoes, and until you are put here, you have no idea of how you would react*. Not a chance, Cindy. I think anyone who had a moral compass tuned to what is right and fair and decent would have done the right thing from the start. (Sorry for the broken record, but I loathe these people.)