REVISIT Does LE have enough evidence to Convict Casey on 1st Degree Murder?

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

Do you think LE has enough evidence to get Casey on 1st Degree Murder?

  • Yes

    Votes: 759 77.2%
  • No

    Votes: 84 8.5%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 140 14.2%

  • Total voters
    983
  • Poll closed .
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Did we ever determine the purpose of the flurry of calls that KC made the day we think Caylee died?

No, but there are many who think that the fact they went unanswered by both her parents indicate they may have expected her to be calling to request them babysit Caylee last-minute (which I'm sure happened frequently right around the time CA would get off of work). KC's parents may have simply thought that if they answered, they would get some absurd story as to why she need to go to work and they needed to take Caylee. After the events of the previous several weeks, I'm sure they wished to make the point that she would need to take on that responsbility herself.

If it is indeed the case, it will be interesting to see if any text messages survive because I doubt we'll ever get the gist of any vm's she may have left.

If she was desperate to unload Caylee in order to meet Tony, and couldn't reach her parents, that may have been the deciding factor in how Caylee ended up duct-taped.
 
I have this uneasiness about the 'new evidence' that has come into the SA's hands and my mind goes back to Casey's visit to Jesse's house for a shower, when she obviously did not need one. If she took something of Jesse's and it was found with Caylee's remains......... I wouldn't put it past her, she had an ulterior motive for that visit, I am sure.
 
Where is this information coming from?

7.1 INTRODUCTION TO HOMICIDE

Read in all murder and manslaughter cases.
In this case (defendant) is accused of (crime charged).

Give degrees as applicable.
Murder in the First Degree includes the lesser crimes of Murder in the Second Degree, Murder in the Third Degree, and Manslaughter, all of which are unlawful.

From the Florida Supreme Court website on Standard Jury Instructions:
http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/jury_instructions/instructions.shtml#

There is also the Felony Murder wild card which the SA can ask for, but that is a different debate for another thread.
 
I have this uneasiness about the 'new evidence' that has come into the SA's hands and my mind goes back to Casey's visit to Jesse's house for a shower, when she obviously did not need one. If she took something of Jesse's and it was found with Caylee's remains......... I wouldn't put it past her, she had an ulterior motive for that visit, I am sure.

Like you ZsaZsa, I have an uneasiness about the "new evidence" in the SA's hands and I see on some threads we are back to Leonard P.'s daisy chain. So I'm going to seek reassurance by telling myself whenever we don't have news, conspiracies abound that go off in every direction. But one thing I know for sure - Leonard P., as likeable as he is, just blows smoke. When has he been right about anything? And if this really was a big "push" for the defense, we'd be hearing from them from every news source possible. They would at least be back to spouting the innocence defense. And if this daisy chain jail girlfriend of RK's has legs, why has Dom disappeared - and how could Cindy possibly keep this quiet?
Okay, for me it's back to the real evidence at hand, clutching my coffee and tylenol.
 
Like you ZsaZsa, I have an uneasiness about the "new evidence" in the SA's hands and I see on some threads we are back to Leonard P.'s daisy chain. So I'm going to seek reassurance by telling myself whenever we don't have news, conspiracies abound that go off in every direction. But one thing I know for sure - Leonard P., as likeable as he is, just blows smoke. When has he been right about anything? And if this really was a big "push" for the defense, we'd be hearing from them from every news source possible. They would at least be back to spouting the innocence defense. And if this daisy chain jail girlfriend of RK's has legs, why has Dom disappeared - and how could Cindy possibly keep this quiet?
Okay, for me it's back to the real evidence at hand, clutching my coffee and tylenol.

I tend to agree with you, logicalgirl! If the new info was in any way related to RK, the A's and the defense would be spinning their yarns on each and every news show that would have them. Minimally, the A's would be making another GMA appearance and JB would be on GR and the "Reasonable Doubt Tour 2010" would be in full swing. Their silence and absence speaks volumes. MOO
 
I tend to agree with you, logicalgirl! If the new info was in any way related to RK, the A's and the defense would be spinning their yarns on each and every news show that would have them. Minimally, the A's would be making another GMA appearance and JB would be on GR and the "Reasonable Doubt Tour 2010" would be in full swing. Their silence and absence speaks volumes. MOO

ITA. In addition, if there was a possibility the girlfriend/daisy chain scenario was true the defense would be aware of this and would be spouting this theory, leaking an interview with the girlfriend and deposing her -- and they are not. If they thought there was any possibility of the daisy chain being true, why would they be pursuing the SODDI (being Roy Kronk) story. IMO they would be pursuing the daisy chain, and I don't think we've seen that.
 
ITA. In addition, if there was a possibility the girlfriend/daisy chain scenario was true the defense would be aware of this and would be spouting this theory, leaking an interview with the girlfriend and deposing her -- and they are not. If they thought there was any possibility of the daisy chain being true, why would they be pursuing the SODDI (being Roy Kronk) story. IMO they would be pursuing the daisy chain, and I don't think we've seen that.

I agree with you but not sure defense wants to touch the daisy chain because they would be admitting that KC told JB where the body was. But the fact that they are actively pursuing him as SODDI would not make sense if they knew RK received information from a jailer. JMO
 
I agree with you but not sure defense wants to touch the daisy chain because they would be admitting that KC told JB where the body was. But the fact that they are actively pursuing him as SODDI would not make sense if they knew RK received information from a jailer. JMO

Good point. Guess I hadn't thought that one through completely.
 
I agree with you but not sure defense wants to touch the daisy chain because they would be admitting that KC told JB where the body was. But the fact that they are actively pursuing him as SODDI would not make sense if they knew RK received information from a jailer. JMO

And, there you go! The two are diametrically opposed. They cannot say that RK is the SODDI and then turn around and say that RK got the info from a daisy-chain. Daisy chain = KC confessed. RK is ZFG = nonsense. JMO
 
Just think of the implications of that, if the daisy chain is true. The prosecution would not want to bring it up because evidence, including the body, might get thrown out. The defense would not want it brought up because it would prove Casey knew where the body was. Sounds like a perfect "catch 22" on both sides.
 
Just think of the implications of that, if the daisy chain is true. The prosecution would not want to bring it up because evidence, including the body, might get thrown out. The defense would not want it brought up because it would prove Casey knew where the body was. Sounds like a perfect "catch 22" on both sides.

You are absolutely brilliant! I wasn't even close to putting those two things together - but thank you! I feel much better, my headache is receding and I won't need this dose of tylenol after all.
On second thought - I don't want the daisy chain at all - but if it's true, I hope it's your way.
 
Just think of the implications of that, if the daisy chain is true. The prosecution would not want to bring it up because evidence, including the body, might get thrown out. The defense would not want it brought up because it would prove Casey knew where the body was. Sounds like a perfect "catch 22" on both sides.

Considering the timing, I still think that the most reasonable scenario is that they have received information and/or evidence from DC concerning the Suburban search with JH. DC allegedly had a map of the area. If he still had that map, and turned it over to LE, and the map was accurate or very close to where Caylee was found, then that means that the mapmaker knew where she was. Biggest question would be, who exactly made that map. Regardless, I'm betting it would lead straight back to KC. This is JMO and speculation, of course.
 
7.1 INTRODUCTION TO HOMICIDE

Read in all murder and manslaughter cases.
In this case (defendant) is accused of (crime charged).

Give degrees as applicable.
Murder in the First Degree includes the lesser crimes of Murder in the Second Degree, Murder in the Third Degree, and Manslaughter, all of which are unlawful.

From the Florida Supreme Court website on Standard Jury Instructions:
http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/jury_instructions/instructions.shtml#

There is also the Felony Murder wild card which the SA can ask for, but that is a different debate for another thread.
Do you know if the defendant can ask to waive the LIO's in the jury instructions? IOW< can they ask that the lesser offences not be included for consideration by the jury?
 
Do you know if the defendant can ask to waive the LIO's in the jury instructions? IOW< can they ask that the lesser offences not be included for consideration by the jury?
That's a very interesting question. I see where you're going with this. But, doesn't the judge give the jury instructions? I can't imagine he would even hear of this...as it's the law...but maybe you can post this on the lawyer thread.
 
Like you ZsaZsa, I have an uneasiness about the "new evidence" in the SA's hands and I see on some threads we are back to Leonard P.'s daisy chain. So I'm going to seek reassurance by telling myself whenever we don't have news, conspiracies abound that go off in every direction. But one thing I know for sure - Leonard P., as likeable as he is, just blows smoke. When has he been right about anything? And if this really was a big "push" for the defense, we'd be hearing from them from every news source possible. They would at least be back to spouting the innocence defense. And if this daisy chain jail girlfriend of RK's has legs, why has Dom disappeared - and how could Cindy possibly keep this quiet?
Okay, for me it's back to the real evidence at hand, clutching my coffee and tylenol.

LOL one thing the "new evidence" isn't.....*drum roll*


The evidence that supports Todd Macaluso's claims in court. I wonder if he took that evidence with him when he left? :rolleyes:

So far all of the discovery has come from the SA's office. Which to me is rather curious. Other then unsubstantiated claims and random Lexis Nexis motions I'm wondering what evidence is out there that shows Casey is innocent of Murder 1. To me since this is not a court of law we can weigh the defenses evidence and look at it from the point of view of how can Casey's defense prove her innocent.

So far the experts for the defense have been rather quite. To me I would think that if the defense had something significant that proved Casey's innocence it would be released to every news agency in the world. I'm pretty sure even Al Jazeera would have copies of it. So what evidence is there that proves the opposite (Casey being innocent of Murder 1)?

I personally don't think there is any. To me the only thing the defense is going to be able to do is argue against the SA's evidence by picking every little piece apart. Problem is it's going to take experts to do that, and those experts are going to have to actually analyze the evidence and give their unbiased reports on the evidence. To me this is why the defense is also reluctant to submit a witness list.

So for me it's not just a matter of does LE and the SA have enough evidence to convict Casey. It also comes down to the defense and what they have. Yes it is Casey's right to not submit any thing in court. Her and her lawyers could just literally sit there and do nothing but yell object every now and then. However given the evidence in this case I doubt that's the best course of action. To me the SA's evidence paints a pretty clear picture. Yes there is no "smoking gun" as some would put it. However the evidence seems to keep pointing to one reasonable conclusion. Ok maybe one could argue against the "grave wax", or argue against this piece or that piece. Sure ok I'll give the defense that. However I don't think the defense has even made it that far yet. All they have done is claim junk science at this point. They haven't even gotten around to making motions trying to eliminate certain evidence yet to my knowledge.

As I've said before a two year old girl has died and was found discarded like trash with duct tape on her face. The mother was the last person that had custody of Caylee. The jury is going to want answers for why a healthy two year old died, and how her remains ended up being discarded the way they were. Then the defense is going to have to explain Casey's actions and her lying to police. If they go with a SODDI defense then the defense is going to have to explain why Casey never came forward after her daughter was found dead.

So the defense is going to need answers for some very hard questions if they want to avoid a murder 1 conviction. Answers I just don't think they have personally. To me I think some posters on here have done a better job at questioning the evidence in this case and coming up with theories then the defense in this case has.
 
That's a very interesting question. I see where you're going with this. But, doesn't the judge give the jury instructions? I can't imagine he would even hear of this...as it's the law...but maybe you can post this on the lawyer thread.
Yes, the judge gives the jury instructions.
I know in some cases when the statute of limitations has run out on the LIO's , the defendant will have to waive that statute in order to have the LIO's included in the jury instructions.

I also know that in rhorsnby's recent murder case certain LIO's were not allowed to be considered by the jury. So, I am gathering that while instructing on all LIO's may be typical it is not always done and I am wondering what the determining factors are from one case to another. It would be nice to have this answered with certainty.
 
Do you know if the defendant can ask to waive the LIO's in the jury instructions? IOW< can they ask that the lesser offences not be included for consideration by the jury?

That's a very interesting question. I see where you're going with this. But, doesn't the judge give the jury instructions? I can't imagine he would even hear of this...as it's the law...but maybe you can post this on the lawyer thread.

That's a good question I would assume the "standard" instructions are just that...standard. I would also assume that either side could argue to have certain instructions altered for that particular case. So it stands to reason that the defense could argue to have the LIO's removed from the jury instructions. Not being a lawyer though I'm not sure how the process would work or if it could be done in Florida. However being a DP case the Judge might not allow it specifically because it is a DP case (If it could be done). To me it would also be a huge gamble with someones life at stake.

If it could be done and a jury is convinced of Casey's guilt, but would have leaned toward a murder 2 or manslaughter conviction....with out the LIO's in place the jury could decide well if it's an all or nothing scenario we'll give her all since we can't in good conscience give her nothing.
 
Do you know if the defendant can ask to waive the LIO's in the jury instructions? IOW< can they ask that the lesser offences not be included for consideration by the jury?

Ahhh! As in KC may be so sure that she will be getting off or a mistrial that she wants it to be all or nothing? Interesting!
 
bumping up
Ok, is there anything that has come out in today's release of the jailhouse letters that you think can be used as evidence per the title of this thread.
 
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