Rita Tangredi, 31, and Colleen McNamee, 20, 1993-94 ** John Bittrolff ARRESTED **

[LINative13]

Yes, he does look Manorville Butcherish.....so with that being said he obviously did visit Ocean Parkway because some of the remains were found there as well as Manorville.

The area where GB4 were placed so they were not found. Manorville victims were placed so they could be found. GB4 were whole, Manorville were chopped up. Manorville were picked up streetwalkers, GB4 were picked up via computer.

Does anyone know if JB construction companies did work on the Robert Moses Bridge parkway??

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Peter referred to them as being staged meaning being placed in spots to be found. Posed sounds more like moved around like a mannequin.

Peter referred to staging in the cases of the torso's found in Manorville. He never referred to staging in the cases of Tangredi or McNamee, because that information was never released prior to Bittrolff's arrest.

 

[marble]

You've just given two examples of serial killers who stopped, and there are more as well. So why say it's 'unlikely', when it does in fact happen? It's a myth that serial killers don't stop on their own volition.

I said it *seems* unlikely, ie: it's counter-intuitive to head down that path. Also, although it happens it's not the norm, at least for the serial killers who have been caught (which probably skews things since the more times they kill the more likely they'll be found out eventually). Therefore: seems unlikely, is not impossible. Hope that clarifies what I meant.

 

[Really?]

You've just given two examples of serial killers who stopped, and there are more as well. So why say it's 'unlikely', when it does in fact happen? It's a myth that serial killers don't stop on their own volition.

I'd like to believe/think JB is responsible for all of the murders......haha....right?

Please tell me there are not more.......many more sick depraved monsters like him among us.

 

[Really?]

I wanna know what dissimilarities are between gb4 and RT, CM are. I mean I'm not getting my hopes up that this is the killer of gb4 just because I don't wanna be let down. But there has to be something very particular about gb4 to make LE say that.

Other wise I don't see why he couldn't be. SK evolve. As far as we know RT and CM where his first kills and he liked how it made him feel. Leaving him more prepared to kill again. Able to have burlap ready. And everything set up.
I'd also like to point out that pig feed does come in burlap.

double thanks...:tyou:

 

[LikeAHunter]

From http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/forensics-profiling-the-perpetrator.html

I've seen a better definition of posing, but this is the best comparison I found with a quick web search search.

Torturing the victim, overkill, postmortem mutilation or posing, and the taking of souvenirs or trophies are signatures. These actions are driven by the killer's psychological needs and fantasies.

Staging means changing the appearance of the scene so that it looks like the murder took place in a different manner and for a different reason. A classic example: the husband who kills his wife in a fit of anger, then empties drawers and closets, knocks over furniture, and breaks a door lock or window to make it appear as though a burglar committed the crime.

And to my point from yesterday, I am personally not ruling out the idea that the GB4 could have been staged. Consider this: You're a SK. All eyes are on Oak Beach as people point fingers at the original JB, CPH, and others. Why not switch things up with a few kills and dump a few bodies there? It will shift the focus way off you and Manorville, and keep it on Oak Beach.

Of course, this is just a theory, and I'm not even tied to it at this point. But I'm not ruling it out. I believe this guy is smarter than he looks. He went 20+ years without getting caught. He ain't stupid!

 

[Really?]

He was stupid enough to drink from the cup.....however on second thought...maybe he knew it was over.

He'd have to be pretty slick to dump parts after the searching started.

 

[Really?]

Did jb have a boat...? I found an address on shore drive in mastic the backs to water.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

From http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/forensics-profiling-the-perpetrator.html

I've seen a better definition of posing, but this is the best comparison I found with a quick web search search.





And to my point from yesterday, I am personally not ruling out the idea that the GB4 could have been staged. Consider this: You're a SK. All eyes are on Oak Beach as people point fingers at the original JB, CPH, and others. Why not switch things up with a few kills and dump a few bodies there? It will shift the focus way off you and Manorville, and keep it on Oak Beach.

Of course, this is just a theory, and I'm not even tied to it at this point. But I'm not ruling it out. I believe this guy is smarter than he looks. He went 20+ years without getting caught. He ain't stupid!

I just want to draw everyone's attention to the first part of your post, because it's a VERY important distinction. Just as "mutilation" and "dismemberment" are two very different terms for different acts, so are "staging" and "posing". It doesn't help us to throw around terms that we don't actually understand...so thank you for taking the time to post this link, Hunter.

 

[Justiceforever]

I'm just curious as to why only the Manorville butcher? Your defiantly not the only one to think this. But I'm curious as to why when his known victims where strangled. There has been some talk as to mutilation but I've heard nothing to them being dismembered.

I got the impression from Redbirds post that Rita WAS dismembered. Here...

1994 RITA TANGREDI-BEINLICH, 31, of East Patchogue died from strangulation in Blue Point, body discovered in different locations. No other information.

I see, now that there's no link to that (RB or anybody have a link?) I still don't think he's LISK. I mostly subscribe to the 2 or more killer theory. If Rita was found in different places then this guy dismembers. If she was dismembered then (IMO) he fits MB's MO not LISK's. (JMHO)

Also LE said that he is not linked to the GB4! So,that means that there IS 2 killers (at least.)They haven't ruled him out for any of the other bodies yet, so I have to think that the possibility exists that he is responsible for some the other victims.

That's my short answer. I hope it makes sense.

 

[Theforeigner]

Peter referred to staging in the cases of the torso's found in Manorville. He never referred to staging in the cases of Tangredi or McNamee, because that information was never released prior to Bittrolff's arrest.

This might be helpful:

http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/ISJjuly2010.pdf

Crime Scene Staging: An Exploratory Study of the Frequency and
Characteristics of Sexual Posing in Homicides
Vernon Geberth, M.S., M.P.S1

Info on the author Vernon Geberth:

http://www.practicalhomicide.com/index.htm

http://www.practicalhomicide.com/index.htm

 

[Justiceforever]

Can someone please provide the link referring to the neighbor seeing blood on his pants and the whole pig thing? I missed it somehow. I'm a bit overwhelmed with all this new info! I need more coffee! Maybe it was behind the paywall at newsday? N E wayz...will someone post a snippet and the source for me again. TIA

 

[fieldnotes]

He was stupid enough to drink from the cup.....however on second thought...maybe he knew it was over.

He'd have to be pretty slick to dump parts after the searching started.

Ridgeway had a very low IQ. But I think his "success" was attributed to a predatory instinct and animal cunning.

I get the feeling just by looking at this guy's homestead on Silas Carter Rd that he is very meticulous and self-controlled. And very adept at compartmentalization in its many forms.

Why they're not storming his castle as we speak is beyond me. They need to break through his neat little facade and enter the belly of the beast; get inside his computers, his phones, his secret little hiding spots and false walls etc.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

This might be helpful:

http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/ISJjuly2010.pdf

Crime Scene Staging: An Exploratory Study of the Frequency and
Characteristics of Sexual Posing in Homicides
Vernon Geberth, M.S., M.P.S1

Info on the author Vernon Geberth:

http://www.practicalhomicide.com/index.htm

A wealth of useful information. Thanks, Foreigner. This article seems to focus primarily on staging and sexual posing (think the Black Dahlia case). It's interesting to me that, to the best of my recollection, Spota used the word "positioning" and not "posing". I wouldn't immediately think there was a difference, but if we think back to the AC murders, wouldn't we be more accurate in describing those bodies as "positioned", rather than "posed" ?

Interesting posts this morning, Wsers.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I got the impression from Redbirds post that Rita WAS dismembered. Here...



I see, now that there's no link to that (RB or anybody have a link?) I still don't think he's LISK. I mostly subscribe to the 2 or more killer theory. If Rita was found in different places then this guy dismembers. If she was dismembered then (IMO) he fits MB's MO not LISK's. (JMHO)

Also LE said that he is not linked to the GB4! So,that means that there IS 2 killers (at least.)They haven't ruled him out for any of the other bodies yet, so I have to think that the possibility exists that he is responsible for some the other victims.

That's my short answer. I hope it makes sense.

I think it's important to remember that prior to Bittrolff's arrest, there was VERY little information available on the McNamee and Tangredi cases. Several of us searched everywhere for info and came up frustrated. I think I was able to find 2 articles on those cases, and one of them was written AFTER the GB4 were found, so 10+ years after the murders. And those weren't even msm links (if memory serves). We just took whatever info we could get back then, since it was so scant. Wise to take the information we had earlier with a whopping grain of salt, imo.

 

[marie-chantal]

MK, you live in a rural area where that is common practice. Manorville is not a rural area and slaughtering your own pigs is not common practice. He doesn't have a farm; we're talking about slaughtering pigs in your backyard.

I understand and agree with what you're saying regarding food and someone having to butcher the animals we eat. But I think it needs to be taken into account that this is not common practice here in the NYC metro area.

BBM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I read that he slaughtered the animals at his home upstate. There are many rural areas upstate.

 

[Theforeigner]

A wealth of useful information. Thanks, Foreigner. This article seems to focus primarily on staging and sexual posing (think the Black Dahlia case). It's interesting to me that, to the best of my recollection, Spota used the word "positioning" and not "posing". I wouldn't immediately think there was a difference, but if we think back to the AC murders, wouldn't we be more accurate in describing those bodies as "positioned", rather than "posed" ?

Interesting posts this morning, Wsers.

Your welcome

Here is another source for information:

http://books.google.dk/books?id=co4...nsic definition of staging and posing&f=false

Forensic Pathology Reviews Vol 4
Edited by Michael Tsokos

 

[marie-chantal]

Hey!!!!!!

I just discovered that through my university library, I can access Newsday! For free!!!!! If anybody wants me to pull up an article, let me know. I'm not sure if I'll be able to link it here, but I can personally copy the article and send it to you. I just won't be able to link it to this forum.

 

[marie-chantal]

From a Newsday article dated July 23, titled, "I wouldn't have thought it in a million years" written by Bart Jones:

Neighbors know John Bittrolff as a friendly, regular guy, a devoted father of two boys who likes to hunt deer and raise animals in his yard.
A carpenter and home improvement contractor, he won friends by plowing their snow and doing odd jobs around their houses. "He's a nice guy. He's liked throughout the community," said Roger Schwarting, who has lived next door to Bittrolff for more than a decade. "He's helped everybody. That's why it's so shocking."


BBM

Plowing snow? This might mean that he was really familiar with the area. It's like landscape maintenance. The people who do these jobs often become very familiar with the areas in which they work.

And this seems to indicate that he kept animals at both homes, although it doesn't state that he slaughtered them in both locations:

Bittrolff liked to go deer hunting upstate, where he has a second home, neighbors said. Sometimes he offered them deer meat.
He also had a variety of animals in his backyard, including pigs and goats, neighbors said.

 

[Justiceforever]

Thanks Kat. I never spent much time researching these 2 victims. I'll keep that in mind and if I find a link, I'll post it.