SC - Columbia - Sheriff Slams Female Student to Floor In Class

[bluesneakers]

From what the Sheriff is saying with the caveat he doesn't investigate why the child was being disruptive he said it is his understanding the child was being disprespectful because she wasn't doing her school work.

Which to me still sounds like the teacher overreacted and caused rhe disruption.

Teachers need to learn to pick their fights. If the student is not being loud why would a teacher care if a student isn't doing work? Just mark the child as failed for class work and move on to teaching those who are interested in learning.

And unfortunately that overreaction was backed up by another overreaction which included a physical confrontation. Which some students were on the ball enough to film. Good thing they hadn't handed over the cell phones.

I'm glad he got fired. I hope he gets prosecuted too.

JMO.

 

[Isabelle]

When and how did students become so out of control that schools had to have police on site?

 

[vestigare]

12:20 est

Question: You said her actions were very disruptive; can you give specifics on how she was being disruptive?

Sheriff: She wasn't following the instructions of the teacher. There were certain things the students were supposed to be doing. They had chromebooks they were supposed to be studying from or something educationally related. She wasn't doing that. She was using her phone and he asked her to put it up. She continued to do it. She wasnt doing what the other students were doing. He as trying to teach. The teacher was trying to teach; that is his job. She was preventing that from happening because she was not paying attention. She was verbally disrespective [sic] would not do what he asked her to do. When he wrote her up and told her to leave and go to the office she refused to do it and she continued to disrupt the class. So, she prevented what is supposed to happen in a classroom which is teacher to teach and students to learn so she prevented that from happening by her actions.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

In the PC did anyone else hear the sheriff say the officer should have used "pain points"? I was multi-tasking and maybe heard wrong.

 

[JeannaT]

When and how did students become so out of control that schools had to have police on site?

I think it came simultaneously with school districts not allowing teachers to touch students. That admin could have gotten the girl up and out of her chair, as could two physically fit female teachers. They weren't allowed to, by school rules, so now we've got cops in the schools.

Same thing, I think, is why we have "inventory control specialists" - i.e., rentacops in department stores. Because alert employees are no longer allowed to confront customers they witness stealing.

 

[vestigare]

In the PC did anyone else hear the sheriff say the officer should have used "pain points"? I was multi-tasking and maybe heard wrong.

Yes, he said that.

The question was what the officer should have find.
Sheriff answered he knows what he shouldn't have done and that was throw the girl across the room. He then said there were training techniques and that pain or it may have been pressure points were one thing.

 

[vestigare]

I think it came simultaneously with school districts not allowing teachers to touch students. That admin could have gotten the girl up and out of her chair, as could two physically fit female teachers. They weren't allowed to, by school rules, so now we've got cops in the schools.

Same thing, I think, is why we have "inventory control specialists" - i.e., rentacops in department stores. Because alert employees are no longer allowed to confront customers they witness stealing.

There are legal, risk management and insurance liability reasons why school employees and store employees should not be touching people.

 

[bluesneakers]

I think it came simultaneously with school districts not allowing teachers to touch students. That admin could have gotten the girl up and out of her chair, as could two physically fit female teachers. They weren't allowed to, by school rules, so now we've got cops in the schools.

Same thing, I think, is why we have "inventory control specialists" - i.e., rentacops in department stores. Because alert employees are no longer allowed to confront customers they witness stealing.

Employees are not allowed to arrest customers. They haven't been trained and what might appear to be someone stealing is often NOT someone stealing. And confronting a shoplifter can be a risky, dangerous, intimidating thing. It's not something the person helping you pick out your dress should have to do. I don't know how far back your timeline is, but my retail security experience goes back ... well, I'm old. Let's just say that. Store detectives are not a new thing.

 

[kareylou]

In my experience, when a child is clearly begging for a negative reaction by doing something that almost requires it, giving them that negative reaction should be the absolute last resort. Of course ignoring the behavior just causes him or her to escalate. A teacher needs to be creative, practice preventive discipline, and actually know the individual student to know what will work. Admitting when you have made a mistake or failed to remain the adult also goes a long way.
Oftentimes humor is called for. I truly believe that being reactive, going into fight or flight mode and winning a perceived power struggle by use of authority or physical force is actually a loss. The teacher and society have lost and the student's warped perception of reality has been reinforced. It solves the immediate problem and allows the day's lesson to continue but I have never seen a child come back from such a disciplinary removal better behaved and ready to learn. And FGS at-home suspension is the worst solution. In-school suspension with tutoring and counseling is a much better solution.
In my early days I gave up on a few students and just tried to keep them from disrupting class, so others could learn. Then came a moment I'll never forget: I saw an older teachers aide with one of my "incorrigibles". She had the students face cupped in her hands. There was such obvious affection. Then she handed the child her dog's leash and the young woman walked her dog.
When I talked to the aide she told me tales of what went on in the home, confirmed by the mother, whom I was much too busy to draw out. English was not their first language.
She helped the student make art projects for each of her teachers with kind words on each. I will keep mine forever as a reminder that as a teacher I need to think with my heart. If public school teachers give up on a kid then who will possibly help them? And who am I to decide who is beyond help?
In case you think that we are overstepping our bounds, or letting the kids run the classroom, my students are extremely high achieving for the area and socio-economic background. The school principal drives an hour each way every day so that her granddaughter can be in my classroom.
I will now stop this thread hijack and get back to planning. I just wanted to add some context to a very bare-bones impersonal story. It's a complex issue and common sense does not always apply.
Thanks for allowing me to express my beliefs freely.

 

[Margo/Mom]

I think I've been misunderstood. Parents from all walks of life can teach acceptable social skills. I have never seen "good parents" tell their children they approve of this kind of lack of respect for authority in a situation like this, whatever their income level is.

"Good parents" tell their kids all kinds of things. Most kids, particularly adolescents, go their own way, at least on occasion.

To move from this single occasion--in which the adult responses of which we are aware were wildly inappropriate--to a supposition that there is a need for a "home evaluation," or that the student must be in a foster home, or similar inferences of deficit parenting are, to my mind, completely out of line. Further, it is this kind of thinking that leads to having SROs as a standard feature in certain schools.

 

[Woodland]

I think it came simultaneously with school districts not allowing teachers to touch students.

They weren't allowed to, by school rules, so now we've got cops in the schools.

Snipped and underlined by me -

This surprises me - Chief Lott was very clear SRO's are not at the schools for class disciplinary actions - that is the role of teachers and school admin. SRO's are there for a number of roles, class discipline is not one of them.

In my life experience, many people will reduce their role in a work environment. Teachers are in a work environment - they get paid to be there. Passing off class discipline to a SRO is reducing their role, wanting someone else to fix a problem, or perceived problem, for them. Jmo.

Hoping the teacher and admin person that was present do not slide on this. They ignored their role and training. Jmo.

 

[Margo/Mom]

U

As a teacher I loved that article. Good old long form journalism too. I find that the longer I teach (29 years at last count), the less conventionally "strict" I am. Kids, even the seemingly incorrigible ones, respond to compassion, efforts to understand, and, yes, discipline. But they don't seem to respond to assertions of absolute authority. Whether they "should" or not is immaterial in the moment, when you are losing control of a classroom.
As much as possible I practice preventive discipline. For example, I hung a shoe holder with clear pockets on the inside of the door. The students drop their cell phone into their designated pocket when they enter the classroom. I put things in the pockets that they take out when they deposit their cellphone. Sometimes just a Hershey Kiss or such, but sometimes a note of encouragement, a congratulations for a big effort, or an expression of concern. Also reinforcement of any trait that I know will be valuable to happiness and success as an adult but might not seem desirable in high school.
This has served me well and I have had so many students come back and thank me later. My stress levels have gone way down too. Win win! I will be saving this article and looking into these methods further.

I love you!

 

[JeannaT]

Snipped and underlined by me -

This surprises me - Chief Lott was very clear SRO's are not at the schools for class disciplinary actions - that is the role of teachers and school admin. SRO's are there for a number of roles, class discipline is not one of them.

In my life experience, many people will reduce their role in a work environment. Teachers are in a work environment - they get paid to be there. Passing off class discipline to a SRO is reducing their role, wanting someone else to fix a problem, or perceived problem, for them. Jmo.

Hoping the teacher and admin person that was present do not slide on this. They ignored their role and training. Jmo.

The sheriff made it clear that both the admin and the teacher, and the majority of students agreed with what the RO did.

 

[SophieRose]

In the PC did anyone else hear the sheriff say the officer should have used "pain points"? I was multi-tasking and maybe heard wrong.

He said pain compliance.

http://www.newsweek.com/report-deputy-ben-fields-seen-tackling-student-video-be-fired-387960

Officers are trained to speak with the student in an effort to get them to comply. If verbal commands fail, officers can use pain compliance, such as pressure points. "When he threw her across the room...that's not acceptable. Ben Fields should not have thrown the student, he was not trained to throw the student. We've done the right thing in our actions in terminating him," Lott said.

 

[vestigare]

I agree.
I think this teacher requires additional teaching and possibly discipline.
What ever admin came should be relieved. He clearly isn't cut out to be admin if be allowed it to get to this.

Snipped and underlined by me -

This surprises me - Chief Lott was very clear SRO's are not at the schools for class disciplinary actions - that is the role of teachers and school admin. SRO's are there for a number of roles, class discipline is not one of them.

In my life experience, many people will reduce their role in a work environment. Teachers are in a work environment - they get paid to be there. Passing off class discipline to a SRO is reducing their role, wanting someone else to fix a problem, or perceived problem, for them. Jmo.

Hoping the teacher and admin person that was present do not slide on this. They ignored their role and training. Jmo.

 

[vestigare]

The sheriff made it clear that both the admin and the teacher, and the majority of students agreed with what the RO did.

Yeah. We don't have an official poll number here.
And that explains why be was fired less than 48 hours after he did what everyone thought was acceptable....

 

[JeannaT]

I agree.
I think this teacher requires additional teaching and possibly discipline.
What ever admin came should be relieved. He clearly isn't cut out to be admin if be allowed it to get to this.

Well, she is a math teacher in high school, which is a rare commodity. She may be an excellent teacher of the subject, and well-respected by the students but not someone who has magnetic personality skills who is able to inspire excellent behavior. Teachers like that aren't common - and shouldn't be the standard for who has a job, IMHO. It's always refreshing to find some of those inspired individuals who are both personally charismatic and know their subject well, but with a shortage of math and science teachers, it seems she might need help with a very defiant student. I don't know if this school has "levels" - level one math vs. on grade level math, but she may need to be in a classroom where students want to achieve and not disrupt.

 

[JeannaT]

Yeah. We don't have an official poll number here.
And that explains why be was fired less than 48 hours after he did what everyone thought was acceptable....

Everyone is not versed in what kind of physical restraints are used. I'm frankly a little surprised that pain points were acceptable and what should have been used. I have a son who is in ju jitsu, and he can take down someone twice his size if needed by pressing on pain points, but I was surprised to learn that was seen as more acceptable in classroom discipline than just yanking her up by the neck, frankly.

No one, not even the sheriff, disagreed with his decision - and the admin's, to use physical restraint on this student to remove her. The teacher and admin just simply don't have access to what is protocol for the take-down.

 

[vestigare]

There is still no indicationn this student disrupted anything prior to this teacher having a problem.she wasn't studying on her chrome book.

I don't care how qualified a teacher is in a subject if they don't have common sense.

Well, she is a math teacher in high school, which is a rare commodity. She may be an excellent teacher of the subject, and well-respected by the students but not someone who has magnetic personality skills who is able to inspire excellent behavior. Teachers like that aren't common - and shouldn't be the standard for who has a job, IMHO. It's always refreshing to find some of those inspired individuals who are both personally charismatic and know their subject well, but with a shortage of math and science teachers, it seems she might need help with a very defiant student. I don't know if this school has "levels" - level one math vs. on grade level math, but she may need to be in a classroom where students want to achieve and not disrupt.

 

[vestigare]

What? I don't understand your point.
I don't think using pain compliance on a student who refuses to do classwork is acceptable.

Everyone is not versed in what kind of physical restraints are used. I'm frankly a little surprised that pain points were acceptable and what should have been used. I have a son who is in ju jitsu, and he can take down someone twice his size if needed by pressing on pain points, but I was surprised to learn that was seen as more acceptable in classroom discipline than just yanking her up by the neck, frankly.

No one, not even the sheriff, disagreed with his decision - and the admin's, to use physical restraint on this student to remove her. The teacher and admin just simply don't have access to what is protocol for the take-down.