GUILTY SC - Grace Carlson-SantaCruz, 5 mos, Myrtle Beach, 3 Nov 2015

[passionflower]

any word of when the autopsy results will be back and if they will be public?

 

[rob]

Yep. I should have read back through the thread before posting, I am awfully liberal, but I will always support the rights of children over the rights of ahole loser parents.

I'm conservative, republican, Baptist, southern, etc...and I totally agree with you, there will never be an excuse good enough for me to say the parent couldn't help the choice they made, when an innocent baby ends up dead.

 

[U2forever]

I'm conservative, republican, Baptist, southern, etc...and I totally agree with you, there will never be an excuse good enough for me to say the parent couldn't help the choice they made, when an innocent baby ends up dead.

We Southerners need to stick together. :dance:

Probably improper grammar, oh well.

 

[steelman]

They charged her with homicide before the autopsy results were even in, doesn't that mean she must have harmed the baby before she dropped her into the water ?

Wouldn't there have been some outward signs in order for them to have charged her with that before COD was established ?

 

[ILOKAL]

They charged her with homicide before the autopsy results were even in, doesn't that mean she must have harmed the baby before she dropped her into the water ?

Wouldn't there have been some outward signs in order for them to have charged her with that before COD was established ?

Homicide is the manner of death. We don't know the cause of death yet. Homicide isn't what she would be charged with. It would be a murder count.

ETA: I just noticed she's been charged with homicide by child abuse. I've never heard of such a charge. I've always thought homicide was the manner of death along with natural causes, accidental, suicide, and undetermined.

 

[MsMarple]

Homicide is the manner of death. We don't know the cause of death yet. Homicide isn't what she would be charged with. It would be a murder count.

ETA: I just noticed she's been charged with homicide by child abuse. I've never heard of such a charge. I've always thought homicide was the manner of death along with natural causes, accidental, suicide, and undetermined.

It's an interesting charge. Under South Carolina Code of Laws it's defined as:

SECTION 16-3-85. Homicide by child abuse; definitions; penalty; sentencing.

(A) A person is guilty of homicide by child abuse if the person:

(1) causes the death of a child under the age of eleven while committing child abuse or neglect, and the death occurs under circumstances manifesting an extreme indifference to human life; or

(2) knowingly aids and abets another person to commit child abuse or neglect, and the child abuse or neglect results in the death of a child under the age of eleven.

(B) For purposes of this section, the following definitions apply:

(1) "child abuse or neglect" means an act or omission by any person which causes harm to the child's physical health or welfare;

(2) "harm" to a child's health or welfare occurs when a person:

(a) inflicts or allows to be inflicted upon the child physical injury, including injuries sustained as a result of excessive corporal punishment;

(b) fails to supply the child with adequate food, clothing, shelter, or health care, and the failure to do so causes a physical injury or condition resulting in death; or

(c) abandons the child resulting in the child's death.

(C) Homicide by child abuse is a felony and a person who is convicted of or pleads guilty to homicide by child abuse:

(1) under subsection (A)(1) may be imprisoned for life but not less than a term of twenty years; or

(2) under subsection (A)(2) must be imprisoned for a term not exceeding twenty years nor less than ten years.

(D) In sentencing a person under this section, the judge must consider any aggravating circumstances including, but not limited to, a defendant's past pattern of child abuse or neglect of a child under the age of eleven, and any mitigating circumstances; however, a child's crying does not constitute provocation so as to be considered a mitigating circumstance.

HISTORY: 1992 Act No. 412, Section 1; 2000 Act No. 261, Section 1.

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c003.php

So it looks like section (A)1 applies here.

 

[ILOKAL]

It's an interesting charge. Under South Carolina Code of Laws it's defined as:

SECTION 16-3-85. Homicide by child abuse; definitions; penalty; sentencing.

(A) A person is guilty of homicide by child abuse if the person:

(1) causes the death of a child under the age of eleven while committing child abuse or neglect, and the death occurs under circumstances manifesting an extreme indifference to human life; or

(2) knowingly aids and abets another person to commit child abuse or neglect, and the child abuse or neglect results in the death of a child under the age of eleven.

(B) For purposes of this section, the following definitions apply:

(1) "child abuse or neglect" means an act or omission by any person which causes harm to the child's physical health or welfare;

(2) "harm" to a child's health or welfare occurs when a person:

(a) inflicts or allows to be inflicted upon the child physical injury, including injuries sustained as a result of excessive corporal punishment;

(b) fails to supply the child with adequate food, clothing, shelter, or health care, and the failure to do so causes a physical injury or condition resulting in death; or

(c) abandons the child resulting in the child's death.

(C) Homicide by child abuse is a felony and a person who is convicted of or pleads guilty to homicide by child abuse:

(1) under subsection (A)(1) may be imprisoned for life but not less than a term of twenty years; or

(2) under subsection (A)(2) must be imprisoned for a term not exceeding twenty years nor less than ten years.

(D) In sentencing a person under this section, the judge must consider any aggravating circumstances including, but not limited to, a defendant's past pattern of child abuse or neglect of a child under the age of eleven, and any mitigating circumstances; however, a child's crying does not constitute provocation so as to be considered a mitigating circumstance.

HISTORY: 1992 Act No. 412, Section 1; 2000 Act No. 261, Section 1.

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c003.php

So it looks like section (A)1 applies here.

It seems as though this charge may be unique to SC because when I googled it SC was the only state that popped up (I think). Thanks for posting it, MsMarple.

 

[ClaireNC]

true but im not wanting this to become a legit defense for this bullshottery.

That is actually a topic that the courts are struggling with these days. I've done some searching around the internet and there is a lot written about it. First off, laws on the insanity defense or diminished capacity vary by state. In general certain mental illness does not qualify for the insanity defense, such as personality disorders (psychopath, asocial, etc.), paraphilia (sexual perversion) or "substance related disorders" due to drug use. The bottom line is: An insanity plea is usually not an option in the case of acute drug intoxication.

Methamphetamine can cause long term psychosis and that's what causes special problems for the courts. While psychosis is a good for a not guilty by reason of insanity defense, self-induced psychosis due to meth use would not be, especially if they found drugs in her system. If there were not drugs in her system, then the insanity defense could possibly stick, but from my research that doesn't happen very often.

 

[U2forever]

Welp, she sure has the history and DFCS has been involved in her life for years if I'm not mistaken. I wonder how that will play out plus, I'm very interested in her drug screen. Not saying that's an excuse cause it's not.
I think she is plain evil.
JMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MsMarple]

It seems as though this charge may be unique to SC because when I googled it SC was the only state that popped up (I think). Thanks for posting it, MsMarple.

I agree; I've never heard of such a charge either but I think I like it. In particular I like the aggravating circumstances that can include past child abuse behavior, though I don't know if that applies here - I just like the concept. And I like that it specifically states that a child crying is not considered to be a mitigating circumstance.

If Toney is actually charged under section (A)1 then it looks like if she's convicted she could face a sentence of life or at least a minimum of 20 years. It seems like a well-defined charge as opposed to plain felony murder, although either way it's gonna be hard for her defense to explain how running into a creek with Grace and then dropping her isn't an act of extreme indifference to human life!

 

[ILOKAL]

I agree; I've never heard of such a charge either but I think I like it. In particular I like the aggravating circumstances that can include past child abuse behavior, though I don't know if that applies here - I just like the concept. And I like that it specifically states that a child crying is not considered to be a mitigating circumstance.

If Toney is actually charged under section (A)1 then it looks like if she's convicted she could face a sentence of life or at least a minimum of 20 years. It seems like a well-defined charge as opposed to plain felony murder, although either way it's gonna be hard for her defense to explain how running into a creek with Grace and then dropping her isn't an act of extreme indifference to human life!

Perhaps when the COD is determined (if it can be), additional charges might be filed.

 

[borndem]

Homicide is the manner of death. We don't know the cause of death yet. Homicide isn't what she would be charged with. It would be a murder count.

ETA: I just noticed she's been charged with homicide by child abuse. I've never heard of such a charge. I've always thought homicide was the manner of death along with natural causes, accidental, suicide, and undetermined.

bbm

Exactly right! And "homicide by child abuse" is a new one on me, too -- but, IMO, that's just what happened here. Interesting nomenclature, but how many cases of just that -- homicide by child abuse -- have we all seen here? Very descriptive. I'll bet it's been in their statutes for a while. Starving a child, beating a child to death, etc., whether it was intentional or not -- that's what it is.

SMH. Yep.

 

[TaylorJ4]

OMG, a relative of mine had a baby the same day and at the same hospital!

 

[Coolmomof4]

Thanks! I couldn't get it to work, either.

Sounds a bit suicidal. Or is it homicidal? Dunno.

I'm beginning to wonder if she was going to commit suicide with the baby in the creek/river but chickened out at the last second.

 

[cvaldez1975]

Ca has that charge. It is used as a qualifier to be sentenced to LWOP.

Homicide is the manner of death. We don't know the cause of death yet. Homicide isn't what she would be charged with. It would be a murder count.

ETA: I just noticed she's been charged with homicide by child abuse. I've never heard of such a charge. I've always thought homicide was the manner of death along with natural causes, accidental, suicide, and undetermined.

 

[rob]

I'm beginning to wonder if she was going to commit suicide with the baby in the creek/river but chickened out at the last second.

Just like when they shoot the kids and then shoot them selves in the arm cause they were trying to commit suicide.

 

[U2forever]

Just like when they shoot the kids and then shoot their selves in the arm cause they were trying to commit suicide.

Diane Downs. Nuff said.
'A stranger did it.' Oh shut up!

Here I SC, we have some strange blue laws still on the books.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Redux]

Woman charged in connection with Baby Grace’s death had history with social services

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/local/crime/article44876529.html#storylink=cpy

 

[pappa rob]

How sad, she obviously didn't care about anything but her drugs. I hope she never gets another chance to kill another child.

 

[razzledazzle]

According to Deputy Coroner Darris G Fowler, the cause of death for Baby Grace is drowning, and is ruled a homicide. The autopsy was performed at the Medical University of South Carolina, with official results being released Thursday.

http://wbtw.com/2016/01/07/official-autopsy-results-released-in-death-of-5-month-old-baby-grace/