SC - Paul Murdaugh, 22 and mom Margaret, 52, found shot to death, Islandton, 7 June 2021 #13

[MassGuy]

I’ve been following this case from the very beginning and so far no one has explained to any degree of satisfaction why the authorities on the scene proclaimed that there “was no threat to the public”. We know that PM and MM didn’t shoot each other, and the self defense theory has not been throw around, so….one could interpret that AM may Have confessed and hoped it would be swept under the rug? I’m bewildered.

I think there were issues with Alex' account from the very beginning, and perhaps law enforcement was aware that his shirt had high velocity impact splatter on it.

In any event, they knew this wasn't random. Hopefully we hear more about the evidence at some point soon.

 

[worm]

I’ve been following this case from the very beginning and so far no one has explained to any degree of satisfaction why the authorities on the scene proclaimed that there “was no threat to the public”. We know that PM and MM didn’t shoot each other, and the self defense theory has not been throw around, so….one could interpret that AM may Have confessed and hoped it would be swept under the rug? I’m bewildered.

I think the “no threat” comment will go into the pretend it never happened pile since it’s obvious now that it was really irresponsible. If they knew it was AM, they let him go with guns. If they didn’t know who it was, they owed the public an explanation there too. Either way, on June 8 and after, there was someone on the loose there that had killed twice already and LE said not to worry.

 

[MassGuy]

I think the “no threat” comment will go into the pretend it never happened pile since it’s obvious now that it was really irresponsible. If they knew it was AM, they let him go with guns. If they didn’t know who it was, they owed the public an explanation there too. Either way, on June 8 and after, there was someone on the loose there that had killed twice already and LE said not to worry.

It's standard for law enforcement to address if there is a threat to the public or not, but it's rare that it's as adamant as it was here.

Normally they'll say something like "we have no reason to believe the public is in danger."

I respect the hell out of the move here, as they weren't leaving it open to interpretation; they knew this was an isolated incident.

You can't just start seizing weapons, or arrest someone merely because you know they probably did it.

I'm sure a search warrant would have been quickly executed to seize any firearms though.

 

[worm]

It's standard for law enforcement to address if there is a threat to the public or not, but it's rare that it's as adamant as it was here.

Normally they'll say something like "we have no reason to believe the public is in danger."

I respect the hell out of the move here, as they weren't leaving it open to interpretation; they knew this was an isolated incident.

You can't just start seizing weapons, or arrest someone merely because you know they probably did it.

I'm sure a search warrant would have been quickly executed to seize any firearms though.

But there very well could have been a threat. Isolated or not, they say this man killed 2 close relatives in a brutal way but it was isolated so surely he wouldn’t do it to anybody else? And they left him without keeping an eye on him and he had guns? Luckily, even though he did in fact get into yet another incident involving a firearm nobody else was killed. I don’t see any way that LE can say they did the right thing by those people there with that comment.

 

[MassGuy]

But there very well could have been a threat. Isolated or not, they say this man killed 2 close relatives in a brutal way but it was isolated so surely he wouldn’t do it to anybody else? And they left him without keeping an eye on him and he had guns? Luckily, even though he did in fact get into yet another incident involving a firearm nobody else was killed. I don’t see any way that LE can say they did the right thing by those people there with that comment.

I mean, they were right. This was a targeted crime, and statistically, the public is going to be at much less risk (as opposed to the alternative). Everyone was well aware that a killer was still out there, so what else should they have said?

I always appreciate this sort of thing because it clues us in as to who the killer likely is. Normally we get something vague, or nothing at all.

If they were to do what you're suggesting, then the public would be even more on edge. This wasn't some madman out there killing random people.

That's when law enforcement better speak up and tell people they should be scared, and to take specific precautions.

 

[worm]

I mean, they were right. This was a targeted crime, and statistically, the public is going to be at much less risk (as opposed to the alternative). Everyone was well aware that a killer was still out there, so what else should they have said?

I always appreciate this sort of thing because it clues us in as to who the killer likely is. Normally we get something vague, or nothing at all.

If they were to do what you're suggesting, then the public would be even more on edge. This wasn't some madman out there killing random people.

That's when law enforcement better speak up and tell people they should be scared, and to take specific precautions.

We can live and let live on this one but I think it begins and ends with honesty. This was deliberate confusion.

 

[ElGato]

I mean, they were right. This was a targeted crime, and statistically, the public is going to be at much less risk (as opposed to the alternative). Everyone was well aware that a killer was still out there, so what else should they have said?

I always appreciate this sort of thing because it clues us in as to who the killer likely is. Normally we get something vague, or nothing at all.

If they were to do what you're suggesting, then the public would be even more on edge. This wasn't some madman out there killing random people.

That's when law enforcement better speak up and tell people they should be scared, and to take specific precautions.

I agree, IMO it's extremely terrifying to everyone in a neighbourhood to believe a couple of murderers are roaming the area with guns, looking for more victims. People would be told to stay indoors, like when the remaining Boston Bomber was loose. Unless police are in that mode, searching for killers known to be at large, they need to reassure people. IMO it is very irresponsible otherwise...

I think it was clear that MM and PM were targetted: nothing was stolen, they were in a location no one would stumble onto, they had allowed the killer/s to get very close, so would have known him/them.

I think any modern police would instantly put their focus on the husband. He's always the prime suspect, always.

JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

Is it possible they didn’t die right away?
Not everybody shot in the head dies or dies right away. Time of being shot and TOD could be the gap.?

Jmo

 

[Tabulator]

What was AM thinking? If he really did murder his wife and child to keep his addiction and theft from becoming public, what did he think an extensive police investigation would find? My guess is that he really believed he wouldn't be caught. He had gotten away with so many crimes for so long - Why not this one?

<modsnip - comments on non-POI>

As for LE stating there was no threat after the murders, I am thinking that was a thinly veiled message to AM - like, we know you're the killer and we are coming for you. I also think local LE took a lot of heat from the PM investigation and the handling of the boating case - perhaps that is why SLED took over. The Murdaugh family was like royalty in that area ( according to many reports) and maybe LE didn't want to publicly identify AM as a person of interest until they were absolutely sure they had the evidence to prove his guilt.

This is my opinion, of course.

 

[meanmaryjean]

What was AM thinking? If he really did murder his wife and child to keep his addiction and theft from becoming public, what did he think an extensive police investigation would find? My guess is that he really believed he wouldn't be caught. He had gotten away with so many crimes for so long - Why not this one?

<modsnip - comments on non-POI>

As for LE stating there was no threat after the murders, I am thinking that was a thinly veiled message to AM - like, we know you're the killer and we are coming for you. I also think local LE took a lot of heat from the PM investigation and the handling of the boating case - perhaps that is why SLED took over. The Murdaugh family was like royalty in that area ( according to many reports) and maybe LE didn't want to publicly identify AM as a person of interest until they were absolutely sure they had the evidence to prove his guilt.

This is my opinion, of course.

I do not for a single minute believe there was a hard core addiction that contributed to this in any meaningful way. Or at all frankly. Yes, he went to 'rehab' but since it was private pay- there is no reason he could not just hide out there for those weeks as long as he paid. The amount of 'bad' housed in this single human is really incomprehensible.

 

[Tabulator]

I do not for a single minute believe there was a hard core addiction that contributed to this in any meaningful way. Or at all frankly. Yes, he went to 'rehab' but since it was private pay- there is no reason he could not just hide out there for those weeks as long as he paid. The amount of 'bad' housed in this single human is really incomprehensible.

I, personally, never believed the opiate addiction stoy at all. With the kind of money he was stealing, I would say a gambling problem is much more feasible.

Either way, it would never be a reason to murder your wife and child. There is no addiction or reason that would justify what he is accused of!

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Please correct my mistakes as i stumble through my confusion.

PM worked for his Uncle that day, but did not have dinner there.

Do we know when he arrived at Moselle?

MM arrived at 7:30pm.

PM was making a video that caught his two -arents arguing, shortly before his death around 9:30pm.

MM was also killed around 9:30pm.

Her car was found with the ignition running.

So the mystery is in those two hours between her arrival and their murders. Did she drive PM to the kennels because it was raining and then AM showed up? Would she have waited that long for him to show up…for this fishy trip to the hospital an hour away? Was she planning on staying the night at Moselle and leaving in the morning? Then she could just head back to Edisto from the hospital. Was PM staying the night with Mom?

The article up thread reported that PM arrived at 6:00pm.

 

[Elley Mae]

Snippets from article 3 months ago.


The reason Alex said he wanted his wife at Moselle: Randolph Murdaugh III was dying and Alex wanted Maggie to visit him and his mother, who has dementia, at their Varnville home, multiple sources have confirmed.

Paul left Okatie for Moselle at around 6:00 p.m.

Maggie is believed to have arrived at Moselle sometime between 7:00 and 7:30 p.m.

His attorney Jim Griffin told Fox Carolina in October 2021 that Murdaugh was home watching a gameshow at his parents’ house “at the time the coroner says” Maggie and Paul were murdered.

“On the way over (to Moselle), he spoke to his friends and communicated about business and he called his dad who was in the hospital,” Griffin said. “He didn’t do it. I feel strongly he didn’t do it.”

After the murders, Alex Murdaugh went to stay with his in-laws — his wife’s sister and her husband — and remained closely in their presence for “around three months,” multiple sources tell FITSNews.

Prior to June 7, though, Murdaugh’s connection to the Branstetters wasn’t seen as particularly strong, according to multiple sources, and he often found excuses not to accompany Maggie and the boys on visits to them.

“It’s been said he didn’t particularly like them,” one source close to the investigation said.

Maggie Murdaugh Was Lured To Moselle On The Night Of Her Murder

Latest in the Murdaugh Murders Saga: Maggie Murdaugh was lured to the family's Moselle hunting property the night she was killed.

www.fitsnews.com

 

[Elley Mae]

So if wording is right Griffen says Murdaugh was Home at his parents house watching a game show.

…

Was he living there?

 

[LetsSolvIt]

I know very little about the reality of jail and life-toughened criminals.

Does anyone feel qualified to comment on the likely dynamic between AM and others at the detention center? I realize this is jail and not prison, and prison no doubt will be something entirely different, but how do you think the other inmates feel about Big Red and act towards him?

A cash cow? Someone to use? Is there any respect for his law degree and social station? Or is he the brunt of jokes? Short of preferring freedom and his priviledged life, do you think he would find a way to be the big deal among the other inmates (canteen funding only goes so far)?

I realize each inmate brings his own background to the dynamic and there must be a constantly changing population with detention being temporary while awaiting bail or trial, but just curious to know if there might actually be something AM is enjoying. Is he the center of attention (feeding his narcissism) or someone everyone might want to "befriend"?

To partially answer my own questions, his new mug shot says a lot.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

So if wording is right Griffen says Murdaugh was Home at his parents house watching a game show.

…

Was he living there?

Very interesting detail! Good catch. I wonder?

 

[Warwick7]

Some have asked if MM knew her son would be there. She did.

"On the day of her murder, she knew Paul — who worked that day at his uncle’s equipment rental shop and ate dinner with his uncle’s family at their home in Okatie — would be at Moselle that evening.
Paul left Okatie for Moselle at around 6:00 p.m."

Maggie Murdaugh Was Lured To Moselle On The Night Of Her Murder

Latest in the Murdaugh Murders Saga: Maggie Murdaugh was lured to the family's Moselle hunting property the night she was killed.

www.fitsnews.com

 

[Warwick7]

The article up thread reported that PM arrived at 6:00pm.

He actually left his uncles at 6pm.

 

[Warwick7]

Related to both Paul's location and the times of death -- way back when -- like a year ago -- there were discussions here about whether the coroner's TOD could have been stated because of Murdaugh influences with LE, or AM's statements to local LE, or rumored last calls on PM's and/or MM's cellphones, etc. And then on the podcasts accepted by WS, some experts also allowed that it would be very difficult to pinpoint TOD to such a narrow window just based on the bodies (rigor, temp, weather conditions, etc.) -- so it seems we have a lot in play around an accurate TOD. MOO.

Second, again way back when -- we had discussions about whether the crime scene had been tampered with as some folks were reporting -- whether the bodies had been moved, the shed walls had been cleaned, evidence removed before LE arrived, unauthorized persons inside the yellow tape, etc. Saying this, my guess is it would have been difficult to move the bodies intact in their assumed conditions after close-range shootings. MOO.

Additional feelings about June 7 -- the recording of Alec's voice has been rattling around in my head the last few days -- that falsetto and sobbing, and then eerie calm. After knowing what we know now, some of his statements are absolutely haunting and, at least for me, take on new shades of meaning. For instance in such a matter-of-fact tone, "M'am, I need to call some of my family now."

Only my musings. OMO.

I would love to get to this post. There were so many early discussions on the influence AM could have had over the crime scene....including TOD.

And yes, listening now to the 911 call.makes my blood boil now we know they've unlocked Paul's phone and heard the fighting of AM and MM.

Also begs the question, how long did the video run?.....

 

[stmarysmead]

Snippets from article 3 months ago.


The reason Alex said he wanted his wife at Moselle: Randolph Murdaugh III was dying and Alex wanted Maggie to visit him and his mother, who has dementia, at their Varnville home, multiple sources have confirmed.

Paul left Okatie for Moselle at around 6:00 p.m.

Maggie is believed to have arrived at Moselle sometime between 7:00 and 7:30 p.m.

His attorney Jim Griffin told Fox Carolina in October 2021 that Murdaugh was home watching a gameshow at his parents’ house “at the time the coroner says” Maggie and Paul were murdered.

“On the way over (to Moselle), he spoke to his friends and communicated about business and he called his dad who was in the hospital,” Griffin said. “He didn’t do it. I feel strongly he didn’t do it.”

After the murders, Alex Murdaugh went to stay with his in-laws — his wife’s sister and her husband — and remained closely in their presence for “around three months,” multiple sources tell FITSNews.

Prior to June 7, though, Murdaugh’s connection to the Branstetters wasn’t seen as particularly strong, according to multiple sources, and he often found excuses not to accompany Maggie and the boys on visits to them.

“It’s been said he didn’t particularly like them,” one source close to the investigation said.

Maggie Murdaugh Was Lured To Moselle On The Night Of Her Murder

Latest in the Murdaugh Murders Saga: Maggie Murdaugh was lured to the family's Moselle hunting property the night she was killed.

www.fitsnews.com

So AM begs MM to come to Moselle so that they can visit his Father together. He even withholds the name of the hospital. Yet, when she arrives between 7 and 7:30pm, he is not there. He may be at his Mother’s, watching TV.…though that is only claimed for the time of the murder.

So now I’m going to purely speculate. After waiting over 2 hours for him to show up, was Maggie leaving right before the murders…and encountered him finally driving in as she was driving out? Do we have a photo of the position of the two cars before they were towed?

With the rainy weather, she may have dropped PM off at the kennels to make the video, and even had a quick peek at the sick dog herself, leaving the car running. Then in the driveway appears AM and violence ensues.

It is a real challenge trying to put these disparate pieces together.

The odd thing about AM’s alibi, is that it seems contingent on the caregiver lying for him. But his sordid past seems to indicate that that this pompous expectation toward others was maybe not unreasonable.

But then, maybe he was there while MM waited at Moselle. Maybe he was waiting away from Moselle for his own reasons. We really don’t know yet.

We have been so dependent on leaks to media to understand what little we know. In my opinion we are in for a few surprises.
All just my opinions.