SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #23

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Boodles said:
Isn’t that really weird though? The detective seemed to imply that was significant. I don’t get it. Then again, I know zero about firearms.

Was he implying AM was planning to do a buckshot/birdshot murder and had all his shotguns ready for such on a moment’s notice? That doesn’t make sense. Or does it?
Click to expand...
AM may have and if the birdshot was chambered first it would cause some good damage at close range followed by the second shot with buckshot, much bigger steel or lead balls, that round can do deadly damage in seconds.
 
Derph said:
Not really. When I had a home invasion I loaded two different types of rounds in my shotgun. I loaded a round of bird shot 1st and 00 buck shot for the next two rounds ( a shotgun used for hunting only loads 3 at a time). My thinking at the time was if I had to fire the 1st shot would send a message and if I had to, wound the intruderor minimize the damage to my house. If they kept coming or didn't leave ( there were 2 intruders) the next two rounds of buckshot would kill them or wound them severely. Luckily they left when I confronted them and I called the cops.

It's actually not unheard of to load a shotgun that way for home defense.
Click to expand...

That's amazing. Our shotgun is completely unloaded right now. However, if all H breaks lose (earthquake, fire, flood, power outage, general looting) that's exactly how we intend to load ours. One of the Murdaugh shotguns accepts at least 5 shells (6 if you keep the gun chambered, which is kind of a bad idea IMO).

My grandmother kept a completely unloaded shotgun near her door and one night, she had someone try to break in through her rickety door. Just racking the shotgun sent them away. So yeah, typically just seeing a shotgun is a home defense mechanism.

It's certainly not unheard of! All my uncles who had guns (most of them) did the same. The reason LE advised me to get a .22 is that they figured I might be in close proximity to a home intruder (being far slower than a potential intruder), but I learned where and how to shoot and do not have to worry (much) about collateral damage, even on the front porch or near my bedroom window.
 
10ofRods said:
I think they are called "shells" for shotguns. And we have three different kinds loaded in our shotgun (which is the same type of shotgun as one of the Murdaugh guns).

The reason is that the first shot would be non-fatal, but definitely a deterrent to further action by anyone coming inside the house. We took courses on this. But my dad, who was military, a marksman and at one time, an avid hunter, did the same thing. Having birdshot as the first shell means that it's unlikely (unless at close range), you'd actually kill a human. Dad figured that any intruder into our very small house would be an adult male (or at least, he didn't plan to shoot at any other type of person, I guess). He felt that birdshot would do the trick. His second shot was a slug and it would have killed almost anyone on the property if hit in the torso.

Birdshot is not likely to be lethal if not at close range, especially if the target is burly. Which is why Dad had that second shell in there. We have a second shell in ours that's a slug, as well (and we were told at the gun range that it would stop a car if we hit the engine at 100 feet).

However, in our self defense and home protection classes, they told us to use buckshot instead of birdshot as the first shell. But there are mixed shells and I understand why someone might want those as a first shell.

In fact, I think that we have bird shot, then buck shot, then a slug (I'll have to check).

We live in a neighborhood, and we don't want shots penetrating walls and going anywhere else (although the nearest houses aren't that close, still). I am myself completely convinced that the typical home intruder in my area would respond to either bird shot or buck shot by either being immobilized or by fleeing. We have two pistols to deal with the aftermath if necessary (this is what my police friends said might work for me - we live not far from an area with an active gang presence). We also have two dogs with keen hearing who will bark like crazy if anyone even walks by our fence (and if a twig breaks in the backyard at night - which is quite rare, actually). And of course, we have an alarm system - the idea being that we will *not* have to fire close upon a person.

Anyway, all the shotguns in my family have always had either birdshot or mixed as a first round, then buckshot, then a slug (unless there were only two chambers, in which case, slug was second). But the semi-automatic shotgun that Murdaugh had can shoot up to 6 slugs, I think, without reloading.
Click to expand...
I guess I don't think of shotguns as being for home defense and when looking at the property and what it's used for, it's for hunting. I think it would be unusual to go hunting with various slugs right? I thought this is what was unusual. Reading your reasoning about the various slugs and what order makes me feel sick because if Alex intended to just wound Paul first and then kill him, that is even more horrific.

I will say if we have an intruder in my house and my husband is home, the intent is not going to be to wound him first and hope he leaves. My LE military husband is trained you don't shoot unless your intent is to kill. It sounds harsh, but wounding someone and hoping they leave or that you can get a second shot off if needed is risky.
 
Lots of folks here keep a loaded 12 guage in their house. It is hard to miss at point blank range. Which leads me to wonder if Paul was right handed and smacked the shotgun and it caused the non fatal injury on his left shoulder and chest!
justtrish said:
But their shotguns were not for home defense. They were for hunting. Who goes out hunting birds and loads various things into the shotgun? I would think you load the bullets appropriate for what you are intending to hunt. They had a house full of guns and I can't imagine the shotgun would be first in mind for home defense. I know what my husband has at the ready for home defense and it's not a shotgun.
Click to expand...
 
Edvis said:
AM may have and if the birdshot was chambered first it would cause some good damage at close range followed by the second shot with buckshot, much bigger steel or lead balls, that round can do deadly damage in seconds.
Click to expand...
I think Paul loaded all the shotguns the same. JMO.

I heard, maybe in The Interview Room YouTube channel, that it is common to have the first load as bird shot to kill snakes.....
 
And thanks @10ofRods and @Derph for explaining your experience and perspective. :) I will say my shotgun understanding is just uses for hunting purposes and where I was thinking in terms of why would these be loaded like this. I understand what you both explained and why it might be the way they were.
 
arielilane said:

Defense attorney Jim Griffin begins his cross-examination of David Owen. He establishes that Alex Murdaugh was in the investigators' "circle" from the moment he called 9-1-1 that evening.

Griffin: “Here, SLED and Colleton County Sheriff’s Department failed to take immediate steps to preserve evidence that could possibly” have led them to another suspect. Wouldn’t you agree? Owen: It wasn’t a failure.

Griffin: Whoever killed Maggie and Paul would likely have biological material on them from the blasts that killed the two victims, right? Owen: They would have some, yes.

Griffin: He would have had to brutally murder his wife and son sometime after 8:50 p.m. and 9:06 p.m. and dispose of the murder weapons, right? Owen: Yes.

Owen: We searched from the route from Moselle and Almeda several times, as well as waterways between the two homes. He also notes evidence shows Murdaugh didn’t stop that night on the drive between Moselle and Almeda.

Griffin establishes that SLED didn't search the Almeda home until months later. Owen said he didn't have probable cause. Griffin notes that the Murdaughs had given investigators carte blanche to search whatever they wanted.

Griffin is trying to establish that SLED and Colleton County sheriff’s deputies did not secure evidence at Moselle or Almeda that could either have exonerated Murdaugh or implicated other possible suspects.

Griffin is saying Murdaugh remained in the investigative “circle” because of investigators’ incompetence.

Griffin on investigators’ failure to search Murdaugh’s parent’s home at Almeda until months later: “Would you agree that that was an opportunity missed?” Owen: “Probably, yes.”

Griffin establishes that SLED did not show Shelley Smith a photo of the blue rain jacket until last month in preparation for trial. Owen said he asked Smith if it was the same color as the thing she saw Murdaugh carrying into the house.

Griffin establishes with Owen that SLED showed a bunch of Murdaugh relatives the rain jacket. Griffin: “Not a single family member recognized that blue rain jacket.” Owen: “No they did not.”

Griffin establishes that Owen would expect to find DNA in the blue rain jacket if someone had used it to wrap up the shotgun that killed Paul.

Griffin establishes that investigators found no blood, DNA or wet spots in the back of the Suburban, where you might expect to find it if he had transported the murder weapons in that vehicle.

Griffin establishes again that SLED found no blood or other evidence on the carpet or anywhere in the Moselle house.

Griffin: At no time prior to Aug. 11, did you ask Alex Murdaugh, where’s that blue shirt, where are those khaki pants, where are those shoes? Owen: I did not. G: And you have never asked him for those, have you? O: No sir.

G: And the reason you didn’t was because you weren’t concerned about those clothes. You were concerned about the white shirt, green shorts and shoes he was wearing when he called 911. O: Yes.

G: And you were actively investigating whether the T-shirt had evidence of high velocity blood spatter, which you would expect to find on whoever killed Paul. O: Back spatter, yes.

G: And your agency hired an expert to do that? O: Yes, we asked an individual to examine it to look for back spatter.

Griffin: Before you testified before the Colleton County grand jury, you prepared an outline of your presentation, right? Owen: Yes. G: And you followed that narrative? O: For the most part.

Griffin: And in that narrative, did you say an expert found multiple areas of blood spatter on the front of that shirt? Owen: Yes. G: And is that what you told the Colleton County grand jury. O: Yes.

Griffin: And y’all completely overlooked the fact that your own SLED lab tested his shirt for blood and found no blood. Owen: I had never seen that report. Says he found out about it in November 2022. Yikes.

Griffin is questioning why SLED tested Alex’s clothes for DNA, but not Maggie and Paul’s clothes. Griffin: “But Alex wasn’t the victim of any crime on the night of June 7, was he?” Owen: “Not to my knowledge.” Griffin: So what are you doing?

Griffin on blood spatter supposedly found on AM’s shirt: “You didn’t know then, but you know now that what you told the Colleton County grand jury was not correct?” Owen: “In reference to the shirt, correct.”

If it isn't obvious, acknowledging that the Colleton County grand jury was (perhaps accidentally) misled about key evidence before indicting Alex Murdaugh is not good for the state.

Griffin establishes that Owen wasn’t truthful in an interview with AM when he told him that there were multiple shotguns found in the house with buckshot and birdshot ammo. Griffin asks if Owen was mistaken or if that was an investigative tool. Owen: “Investigative tool.”

Griffin: “So you lied to him.” Owen: “I’m allowed to use trickery to elicit a response.” Griffin: But then you told the grand jury the same thing. “Were you mistaken then, or were you trying to trick the state grand jury?”

Owen says he didn’t mislead the grand jury. Griffin read his own testimony back to him. Owen told the grand jury there were shotguns at Moselle that were loaded with buckshot and birdshot. Griffin: “And that was not accurate, right.” Owen: Correct. Woof.

Griffin is comparing the inconsistencies in AM’s statements that Owen referenced earlier to inconsistencies in Owen’s own investigation. Griffin asks if it made any difference at all how long AM visited his mother, since the slayings had already been committed.

Griffin tells Owen that Alex was buying $50K/week in drugs from Curtis Smith, who owed money to a gang. Griffin establishes that SLED didn't collect DNA from those gang members and didn't put them into the investigative "circle."

Griffin has brought up the Cowboys gang a few times in this trial already. Likely trying to suppose there was someone else out there with reason to harm Murdaugh.
Click to expand...
Continue:


We are back after a short break.

Meadors: “It is the state’s belief that with those last questions, they opened the door to the roadside shooting.” Judge Newman: “He is in the middle of cross-examination. … Now is not the time.”

Griffin to Owen: You were not aware of the negative HemaTrace blood test (negative for human blood on AM's shirt) until November 2022. “How is it the lead case agent is left out of the information channel for something so significant?”

Owen: We have email notifications when there is a new report available. I did not have an email notification that report was there when I went back and looked.

Griffin: “Did you develop any info that Eddie Smith was skimming money from what Alex was giving him for drugs?” Owen: “I am not aware of that information.”

Griffin establishes again that SLED never asked for Murdaugh’s dress clothes from the 7:38 p.m. Snapchat video, never tried to find those clothes, never executed a search warrant for them.

Griffin finishes his cross-examination. We move on to Meadors’ redirect.
 
10ofRods said:
That's amazing. Our shotgun is completely unloaded right now. However, if all H breaks lose (earthquake, fire, flood, power outage, general looting) that's exactly how we intend to load ours. One of the Murdaugh shotguns accepts at least 5 shells (6 if you keep the gun chambered, which is kind of a bad idea IMO).

My grandmother kept a completely unloaded shotgun near her door and one night, she had someone try to break in through her rickety door. Just racking the shotgun sent them away. So yeah, typically just seeing a shotgun is a home defense mechanism.

It's certainly not unheard of! All my uncles who had guns (most of them) did the same. The reason LE advised me to get a .22 is that they figured I might be in close proximity to a home intruder (being far slower than a potential intruder), but I learned where and how to shoot and do not have to worry (much) about collateral damage, even on the front porch or near my bedroom window.
Click to expand...
If your looking at protection purposes sure, hit em with a small round ball load to get moving then if need be throw the buckshot at them to do some real hurting.
 
Last edited:
Edvis said:
If your looking at protection purposes sure, hit em with a small round ball load to get moving then if need be throw the buckshot at them to do somwe real hurting.
Click to expand...
A wise man once told me not to load my shotgun with slugs if I was using it for home defense because it is easier to fix the wall if you shoot it with buckshot than with a slug.... THANKFULLY, I have not been in a situation to need it, but I found his explanation interesting.
 
Batman's Mommy said:
I think Paul loaded all the shotguns the same. JMO.

I heard, maybe in The Interview Room YouTube channel, that it is common to have the first load as bird shot to kill snakes.....
Click to expand...
That's what I used my machete for lol, didn't want to spook the game but not hunting humans on a whim as well.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Fairfield County Jane Doe (1993)?

Staff online

Members online

... and 231 more.
Total: 538 (members: 232, guests: 306)

Online statistics

Members online
232
Guests online
306
Total visitors
538
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
608,667
Messages
18,243,554
Members
234,416
Latest member
Nas-ock
Back
Top