SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #26

[clearskies1]

I don’t think, as of Friday, they have decided whether to agree that Alex was at the kennel, or whether to dispute it. It was something Harpootlian said when examining a witness where he said (paraphrasing) “Alex being at the kennel…OR if you believe he wasn’t at the kennel…” That made me think they’re still deciding which story to spin and whether Alex testifies that he was at the kennel (or “I must have been”) but the shock and trauma affected my memory “badly.”

I think they’re prepping him to testify, but waiting until they see how things go with their defense witnesses and the State’s effectiveness at cross examination to decide.

JMO.

In its Opening Statement the defense admitted that Alex was at the kennels with them and that it was him in the audio/recording. At 17:50 here.

 

[otto]

I don’t think, as of Friday, they have decided whether to agree that Alex was at the kennel, or whether to dispute it. It was something Harpootlian said when examining a witness where he said (paraphrasing) “Alex being at the kennel…OR if you believe he wasn’t at the kennel…” That made me think they’re still deciding which story to spin and whether Alex testifies that he was at the kennel (or “I must have been”) but the shock and trauma affected my memory “badly.”

I think they’re prepping him to testify, but waiting until they see how things go with their defense witnesses and the State’s effectiveness at cross examination to decide.

JMO.

I suppose the best option would be to dispute the time of death. The first defence witness had one job, which was to muddy the time of death and to imply investigative incompetence.

Perhaps the defence can convince the jury that Alex was mixed up about the last time he was at the kennels, that he was at the kennels at 8:44 and then he went to the house. Five minutes later some other dude confronted Paul and Maggie, preventing them from using their phones. That other dude had already stolen two guns from the house. He waited for Alex to leave the property, shot Paul and Maggie, tossed one phone and left the area. Time of death has to be moved closer to 9:07.

 

[Boodles]

Confusing. Thanks much Blanca did refer to a Cabin, where she said AM would go to change clothes, get something to eat, but didn't stay there, as he was staying with family/friends, not going back to the property where the murders occurred.

Can someone please point me to where this cabin is? I remember Blanca saying she left things at the “little house” (?) but was that = the cabin and is it on the Moselle property?

 

[otto]

Can someone please point me to where this cabin is? I remember Blanca saying she left things at the “little house” (?) but was that = the cabin and is it on the Moselle property?

Page 38

https://www.fitsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/securepdfs/2023/02/murdaugh-murders-timeline-full.pdf

 

[clearskies1]

Can someone please point me to where this cabin is? I remember Blanca saying she left things at the “little house” (?) but was that = the cabin and is it on the Moselle property?

It's not on Moselle. It was near or on the property of one of AM's brothers. Blanca said he changed clothes and ate there after the murders but didn't sleep there. It's where the alleged convo between Blanca and AM occurred re the shirt Alex was wearing the day of the murders. JMO.

 

[Walela]

I remember reading that Buster had eczema so the dogs couldn’t be inside. Other than that I think they were with the family until they were kenneled at night.

Murdaugh Trial day 17 witnesses: Maggie's sister, forensic pathologist & kennel caretaker

wpde.com

Someone awhile back stayed Buster had allergies so dogs couldn’t come inside house(s). Weird. So you get dogs that are “harmful” to your kid and keep them in kennels. Why not get a hypoallergenic dog.

Buster walking his dogs.....Buster Murdaugh rejects suggestion he supports father Alex Murdaugh

Hopefully where he is living with his gf has someplace nice outdoors for the doggies to live....Buster Murdaugh living in South Carolina ahead of father's murder trial: exclusive pics

It looks like a condo to me but might have a small backyard and it's super nice of BM to walk them so they get some excercise. I am happy that he has conquered his allergies so he can enjoy the companionship of the dogs.

And it could be that someone just didn't want the dogs inside at Moselle or EB for whatever reason and it was just easier to say allergies.

jmo

 

[Boodles]

Scrambledy brain made him forget he was there, and he made it out just in time.
-Which I think is no longer an option due to the repetition of the lie. Also, the timing is not looking good at all.

Trauma induced temporary amnesia exacerbated by opiod addiction? Yes, I just made that up, but they may have a psychiatrist who will testify to some such phenomenon.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Suicide with shotgun, not impossible but talk about awkward positioning to pull it off. If PM was really thinking of that route out there were pistols available for him to obtain one. More often then not those who plan on going through with suicide seek a place away from family and others IMO.

It’s my understanding Paul was shot twice, first in the chest, the second shot was from the low trajectory thru his arm traveling thru his head. It’s also been established that the shots came from 3 to 6 feet away. I’m not sure the defense can reasonably explain him having the capability of maneuvering the second shot after being shot in the chest. I believe the change in trajectory was calculated by AM just as using two weapons was calculated.

 

[10ofRods]

Suicide with shotgun, not impossible but talk about awkward positioning to pull it off. If PM was really thinking of that route out there were pistols available for him to obtain one. More often then not those who plan on going through with suicide seek a place away from family and others IMO.

Kind of impossible if no shotgun was found near Paul.

Also, Paul would have had to shoot himself from an angle and from a distance of 4-6 feet - and then shoot himself in the head.

In this case, the argument would be murder-suicide, I would think. With unknown thieves stealing the guns immediately afterward. The fact that Paul died first also has to be overcome.

IMO, if the jury buys such a scenario, I have no clue what to say to them except that they haven't been paying attention.

All speculation on my part.

 

[Cedars]

I'm not a numbers person, but if the victims can recover any of the stolen monies, it's worth prosecuting All the crimes. If they find accomplices during the investigation of Each, they will have another avenue to recoup from, possibly.

Victims recover funds through civil litigation, which is a completely different legal system than the criminal justice system.

This page from the National Centre for Victims of Crime lays out the differences:

"In the criminal justice system, the process begins after a crime has been committed and reported to law enforcement. If an arrest has been made and charges filed, the offender may be prosecuted and the crime is considered “a crime against the state.” The prosecutor represents the interests of the state, and the process is meant to determine the guilt or innocence of the accused offenders."

As the page notes, in criminal law the victim is a witness.

If a victim desires monetary compensation (beyond what has been set up in certain jurisdictions), they use the civil law, where the 'Goal is to hold the defendant accountable to the victim.' It also requires a lower burden of proof.

JMO

 

[Walela]

Lots of wasted steps when your running around trying to make sure you covered your butt, adrenaline can have one acting like a crazy chicken.

All the more reason to send Bubba to his "room". Wouldn't want him chasin' a 6'3" chicken.

 

[Edvis]

Kind of impossible if no shotgun was found near Paul.

Also, Paul would have had to shoot himself from an angle and from a distance of 4-6 feet - and then shoot himself in the head.

In this case, the argument would be murder-suicide, I would think. With unknown thieves stealing the guns immediately afterward. The fact that Paul died first also has to be overcome.

IMO, if the jury buys such a scenario, I have no clue what to say to them except that they haven't been paying attention.

All speculation on my part.

Agreed and heard mumblings of the murder suicide but I tossed that out as quick as it came in.

 

[Elley Mae]

Can someone please point me to where this cabin is? I remember Blanca saying she left things at the “little house” (?) but was that = the cabin and is it on the Moselle property?

Now that you say that yes it was a small house someone had/tented for him to keep his stuff at.

 

[10ofRods]

Victims recover funds through civil litigation, which is a completely different legal system than the criminal justice system.

This page from the National Centre for Victims of Crime lays out the differences:

"In the criminal justice system, the process begins after a crime has been committed and reported to law enforcement. If an arrest has been made and charges filed, the offender may be prosecuted and the crime is considered “a crime against the state.” The prosecutor represents the interests of the state, and the process is meant to determine the guilt or innocence of the accused offenders."

As the page notes, in criminal law the victim is a witness.

If a victim desires monetary compensation (beyond what has been set up in certain jurisdictions), they use the civil law, where the 'Goal is to hold the defendant accountable to the victim.' It also requires a lower burden of proof.

JMO

Hmm. I always thought that restitution to victims could also be ordered as part of a criminal proceeding.

Maybe it does vary from place to place. I have no clue. I'm sure some lawyers will weigh in. I just realized that California, where I live, may be unique in this - aside from Federal crimes, where restitution is a thing.

IMO.

Understanding Victim Restitution: Paying Back Victims of Crime

Restitution aims to restore victims to where they stood before they became victims of crime.

www.criminaldefenselawyer.com

Understanding Restitution

www.justice.gov

I am still ignorant as to why AM has not been charged federally (I guess he evaded only SC taxes?)

Oh - and SC does allow for criminal procedures to result in restitution, at least the way I read this:

2018 South Carolina Code of Laws :: Title 17 - Criminal Procedures :: CHAPTER 25 - JUDGMENT AND EXECUTION :: Section 17-25-322. Restitution to crime victim by person convicted of crime; hearing; determination of method, manner, and amount; entry of o

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

JMO.

 

[Edvis]

It’s my understanding Paul was shot twice, first in the chest, the second shot was from the low trajectory thru his arm traveling thru his head. It’s also been established that the shots came from 3 to 6 feet away. I’m not sure the defense can reasonably explain him having the capability of maneuvering the second shot after being shot in the chest. I believe the change in trajectory was calculated by AM just as using two weapons was calculated.

Suicide was never an option IMO just for that reason.

 

[Chelly]

Perhaps federal government is waiting for outcome of this trial before pursuing charges.

 

[10ofRods]

Suicide was never an option IMO just for that reason.

The thing about WS is that most of us are critical thinkers and nearly everyone on these threads has amassed a huge amount of information about this case - we are really paying attention.

It'll be interesting to see what the defense is going to try next week. They haven't seemed to be using a SODDI defense OR any theory about suicide (could they get one juror to believe that someone just happened by after the murder/suicide and stole the relevant weapons?) Not even sure how they can bring it up, at this point in time.

This idea that AM might take the stand himself is so perplexing to me.

JMO. But there are some really poor listeners/information compilers in the world, IME as a teacher of adults.

Maybe they'll go for diminished capacity defense for Alex, as they apparently already have conceded that he was at the crime scene just minutes before the phones go dark.

Speculation about what people think the defense is really going to do is quite welcome, for me, anyway.

 

[mrjitty]

This isn’t related directly to the murders, but just their lifestyle. Does anyone find it odd the dogs lived in kennels? Basically the same thing as being at a shelter. Or did they roam all day at the property and just sleep and eat there?

It’s completely common with working dogs

Think it really comes down to what kind of owner you are

 

[General wooster]

@Warwick7 posted this in Thread #25:
No. I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, we aren't going to send a random paragraph. Let alone put the word ANSWERED sporadically.

Yes we've been writing letters during covid but, and yes making calls but no texting unless we know them personally.

This, is weird. She has his private number and it just happens to be about money and they will realize that money cannot save them from the coming calamity.

At this moment Im banking on someone threatening him or something similar.
- - - - - - - - -

@LetsSolvIt:
This scripture text to Alec seems totally random both in sender and content. And I don't think he deleted it with his other recent texts, did he?

And someone reminded us that Ms. W must be in his address book or the text would have arrived under only a telephone number. I highly doubt AM hinted his murder plan to anyone in advance (or since) but it's got to be more than coincidence how this scripture relates to June 7, 2021.

Could this be some code message related to his alleged illegal drug dealings?

I am really intrigued by this text. Would love to know what LE thought about it.

Just a distraction having no relevance. Jurors will keep their collective eyes on the murder scene.

 

[10ofRods]

Wondering if the evidence shows that AM shot PM from a crouching position?

I thought it sounded like the shooter was just outside the door frame (but not crouching) for the first shot at Paul. Then the angle on the second shot seemed to imply that the shooter shot from the hip? Hopefully, the prosecution will pull out these details in closing. It's the kind of testimony that some jurors will block out or only remember in a hazy way, because what with the crime scene pictures and the overall gruesomeness of this crime, it's very hard to wrap the mind around the details.

IMO.