SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #26

[General wooster]

This link says that someone 6'3 or 6'4 walking 594 steps is almost 1/4 of a mile. How Many Steps Are There in a Mile?

Walking or running? Hard to imagine walking…

 

[clearskies1]

The thing about WS is that most of us are critical thinkers and nearly everyone on these threads has amassed a huge amount of information about this case - we are really paying attention.

It'll be interesting to see what the defense is going to try next week. They haven't seemed to be using a SODDI defense OR any theory about suicide (could they get one juror to believe that someone just happened by after the murder/suicide and stole the relevant weapons?) Not even sure how they can bring it up, at this point in time.

This idea that AM might take the stand himself is so perplexing to me.

JMO. But there are some really poor listeners/information compilers in the world, IME as a teacher of adults.

Maybe they'll go for diminished capacity defense for Alex, as they apparently already have conceded that he was at the crime scene just minutes before the phones go dark.

Speculation about what people think the defense is really going to do is quite welcome, for me, anyway.

My guess -- he panicked and lied because he was a suspect. Drug dealers or angry client did it. No bloody clothes or known murder weapons found. Reasonable doubt.

 

[Cedars]

Hmm. I always thought that restitution to victims could also be ordered as part of a criminal proceeding.

Maybe it does vary from place to place. I have no clue. I'm sure some lawyers will weigh in. I just realized that California, where I live, may be unique in this - aside from Federal crimes, where restitution is a thing.

IMO.

Understanding Victim Restitution: Paying Back Victims of Crime

Restitution aims to restore victims to where they stood before they became victims of crime.

www.criminaldefenselawyer.com

Understanding Restitution

www.justice.gov

I am still ignorant as to why AM has not been charged federally (I guess he evaded only SC taxes?)

Oh - and SC does allow for criminal procedures to result in restitution, at least the way I read this:

2018 South Carolina Code of Laws :: Title 17 - Criminal Procedures :: CHAPTER 25 - JUDGMENT AND EXECUTION :: Section 17-25-322. Restitution to crime victim by person convicted of crime; hearing; determination of method, manner, and amount; entry of o

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

JMO.

My point was more that the decision to prosecute is made by the criminal justice system on behalf of the community (for prevention of crime, punishment through jail time, etc) rather than purely on behalf of victims.

For example, police often don't invest extensive resources into investigating, catching and prosecuting burglars. It is not their priority, although the homeowner really, really wants their items back.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

I love this post!

I think we are seeing all three of these in play in this case. Regarding #3 some people confuse probability and possibility. The prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, but not beyond ALL possibilities, if they are highly unlikely.

Agreed

My take is some people are very slow to draw an adverse inference if an alternate possibility exists, no matter how unreasonable

 

[LavenderGooms]

Was there ever a definitive answer on who actually drove AM’s dad to the hospital? It’s been said it was AM and then I heard his brother actually did. And when?

 

[Lillymac]

Trauma induced temporary amnesia exacerbated by opiod addiction? Yes, I just made that up, but they may have a psychiatrist who will testify to some such phenomenon.

They could probably find one!

 

[General wooster]

Agree, ridiculous to waste court time on the financial crimes, if this can be proven they'll get confessions or just drop other charges...what's the point if he's serving life in prison anyway

Respectfully, regardless of this outcome AM needs to face the music. Those he stole from should be able to confront the person who attempted to ruin their lives and tell him of the grief that he has caused.

 

[General wooster]

I suppose the best option would be to dispute the time of death. The first defence witness had one job, which was to muddy the time of death and to imply investigative incompetence.

Perhaps the defence can convince the jury that Alex was mixed up about the last time he was at the kennels, that he was at the kennels at 8:44 and then he went to the house. Five minutes later some other dude confronted Paul and Maggie, preventing them from using their phones. That other dude had already stolen two guns from the house. He waited for Alex to leave the property, shot Paul and Maggie, tossed one phone and left the area. Time of death has to be moved closer to 9:07.

Good luck.

 

[Cedars]

Respectfully, regardless of this outcome AM needs to face the music. Those he stole from should be able to confront the person who attempted to ruin their lives and tell him of the grief that he has caused.

Yes, that is what civil court is for, per my comments above.

JMO

 

[Lillymac]

It's not on Moselle. It was near or on the property of one of AM's brothers. Blanca said he changed clothes and ate there after the murders but didn't sleep there. It's where the alleged convo between Blanca and AM occurred re the shirt Alex was wearing the day of the murders. JMO.

There is a cabin on the property that the boys used. One of his friends even testified he lived there one summer. It is by the entrance that takes you to the Kennels. I just remembered...prosecutor asked him if it was close to the Kennels and he said yes, that it was. MM

 

[Edvis]

I remember at least one of Paul’s friends said if they were at the hangers that Alex/Maggie would stop by there on their way out.

Cue's one in on the fact of AM text down at the kennels to MM, didn't get any reply but instead of heading right down there to see why, just sent text about heading out. Creatures of habit then out of the blue changing lanes, fishy smelling.

 

[detectivewannab]

My guess -- he panicked and lied because he was a suspect. Drug dealers or angry client did it. No bloody clothes or known murder weapons found. Reasonable doubt.

Have they said what they think happen with the hose?

 

[Cindizzi]

Was there ever a definitive answer on who actually drove AM’s dad to the hospital? It’s been said it was AM and then I heard his brother actually did. And when?

It definitely wasn’t AM. I think in the beginning the story was that AM was visiting him in the hospital and that was his alibi. Not to the police but to the public.

This shows texts that day to AM and MM and the whole family from both AM’s brothers about the Dad in the hospital

https://www.fitsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/securepdfs/2023/02/murdaugh-murders-timeline-full.pdf

 

[General wooster]

My guess -- he panicked and lied because he was a suspect. Drug dealers or angry client did it. No bloody clothes or known murder weapons found. Reasonable doubt.

Interesting about diminished capacity….so, that assumes confession. I don’t see that happening although that is the only way AM can garner any measure of sympathy. Not from me, but others. He has literally nothing to live for without redemption gained from confession. Suicide watch is necessary if not in place. He is teetering.

 

[Warwick7]

The state took 20 days and still haven’t gotten me any closer to believing AM is guilty. Their case is100% circumstantial. And it’s a WEAK circumstantial case IMO. The best evidence they presented was the Onstar data IMO. And I wonder EXACTLY how accurate that even is. They want to bring up his financial crimes and addiction problems. Yes, he is a and a thief and he’s screwed a lot of people over. But IMO there is a very bold line between financial crimes and killing your family. IMO

Judge Newman disagrees with you.

The Motion for Directed Verdict made by defense. Standard procedure after state rests.

Judge Newman stated direct and circumstantial evidence has been presented.

Motion denied!

 

[clearskies1]

There is a cabin on the property that the boys used. One of his friends even testified he lived there one summer. It is by the entrance that takes you to the Kennels. I just remembered...prosecutor asked him if it was close to the Kennels and he said yes, that it was. MM

I know. The question was about a different cabin — the cabin that AM used for some living purposes after the murders.

 

[Knox]

I don’t think, as of Friday, they have decided whether to agree that Alex was at the kennel, or whether to dispute it. It was something Harpootlian said when examining a witness where he said (paraphrasing) “Alex being at the kennel…OR if you believe he wasn’t at the kennel…” That made me think they’re still deciding which story to spin and whether Alex testifies that he was at the kennel (or “I must have been”) but the shock and trauma affected my memory “badly.”

I think they’re prepping him to testify, but waiting until they see how things go with their defense witnesses and the State’s effectiveness at cross examination to decide.

JMO.

Based on what I've seen so far. I have zero doubts on the States ability to effectively cross examine (annihilate) the defense witnesses. Looking forward to watching it happen.

 

[10ofRods]

My guess -- he panicked and lied because he was a suspect. Drug dealers or angry client did it. No bloody clothes or known murder weapons found. Reasonable doubt.

I'm curious about SC law in the case of a defense like this one. I thought AM was supposed to have an alibi defense, but if he switches to SODDI, is that permitted? I would expect so - although his lawyers might have to claim they only found out about this possible other person or persons after trial started? Didn't they have to file something with the court about the overall nature of their defense? I don't know if SC does that or not, but many states do.

If you're right, then putting him on the stand might be necessary, because who else could testify to why he lied?

IMO.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Interesting about diminished capacity….so, that assumes confession. I don’t see that happening although that is the only way AM can garner any measure of sympathy. Not from me, but others. He has literally nothing to live for without redemption gained from confession. Suicide watch is necessary if not in place. He is teetering.

I don’t mean to be cruel. But I don’t understand a suicide watch of a murderer. If he kills family and then wants to kill himself, why stop him? I guess keeping him alive to hear the verdict of guilty is good.

 

[General wooster]

Judge Newman disagrees with you.

The Motion for Directed Verdict made by defense. Standard procedure after state rests.

Judge Newman stated direct and circumstantial evidence has been presented.

Motion denied!

Respectfully, I shall refrain from responding.