SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #26

[TravelingCircusof5]

This isn’t related directly to the murders, but just their lifestyle. Does anyone find it odd the dogs lived in kennels? Basically the same thing as being at a shelter. Or did they roam all day at the property and just sleep and eat there?

No, it is not at all uncommon in the South, at least. Hunting dogs are not ‘pets’, at least until they retire to being pets. Many hunters/ owners believe that pampering them spoils them and takes their natural instincts away. Hunting dogs in general LOVE to hunt, and they love their owners, and are generally VERY well taken care of. Did you see the condition of that kennel? Did you hear that someone was paid to come clean it and tend to the dogs twice per day? Also, though they are kenneled at times, they are usually let out often for exercise and fun and training.

Before my dad got too old, he had many great hunting dogs. At least one (a chocolate lab) was even designated by AKC as a Master Hunter- the highest level of hunting dog skill and obedience, etc, which then led to other owners clamoring to pay my dad to use his bloodline. He had others equally as skilled, but didn’t always enter them to be rated. Other hunters routinely offered to buy any of his dogs for thousands of dollars each. (Usually he said no.) Dad loved his dogs and the dogs adored my dad and loved hunting. These dogs are prized possessions and companions, yet they always lived outside in kennels similar to Moselle. Once too old to hunt, they often became pets.

Dogs are not my thing, neither is hunting. I am the daughter…

 

[Lillymac]

I know. The question was about a different cabin — the cabin that AM used for some living purposes after the murders.

Sorry, I should have responded to boodles post...or I just should have not responded at all

 

[Boodles]

Long post ahead —> Here are all the factors that point overwhelmingly to Alex’s guilt:
1. At the murder scene 4 minutes before M & P we’re shot. He either shot them himself or he heard or saw them being shot because he couldn’t have walked back to the house before they were shot. Obviously he shot them.

2.He gave false alibi for the time of the murders (on the couch napping). Repeatedly falsely claimed he had not been to kennels after dinner.

3. His secret life was about to be exposed to his family and the world. Typical family annihilator.

4. Paul and Maggie were only at Moselle because he beckoned them there. And then he lied and said Maggie came because she was worried about him.

5. Family weapons were used to commit the murders. The shotgun Alex was holding can’t be ruled out as murder weapon.

6. Paul’s 300 Blackout never found.

7. Maggie’s phone handled immediately after death and was disposed of along the route Alex drove minutes later.

8. Alex changed clothes at some point and the clothes and shoes he had been wearing have never been found.

9. AM tried to get Blanca to say he was wearing different clothes; he tried to get Shelley to say he was at mother’s house twice as long as he actually was there.

10. Called 911 17 seconds after Suburban stopped at kennels. No time to check pulses and turn Paul over and move his phone like he told cops.

11. Driving 80 mph on his way back from Alameda at 10:00 pm on a dark dangerous road.

12. Failed suicide

13. Confronted by P and M about bags of pills in his laptop shortly before murders.

14. Mad at Paul for costing him millions due to drunk boat crash that killed Mallory.

15. Drove past driveway to tree line and out buildings at mom’s house, likely hiding weapons and clothes.

16. Blue tarp carried into mothers house, likely concealing evidence.

17. All other suspects with possible motive have been ruled out.

18. P and M must have known and trusted their killer because no defense wounds.

19. He said he went to work 8:30-9:00 but it was actually after noon when he left for work. He had all morning to make preparations for killing.

20. No activity on his phone, no steps logged for AM at all between 8:05 pm and 9:02. He left his phone in the house when he went to kennels around 8:30.

21. When he texted and called Maggie at 9:00 ish to tell her he was leaving - he had just seen her at the kennel (and the defense has now admitted that), so these texts/calls were sent for the sole purpose of concealing his whereabouts at the murder scene.

There’s probably more. Feel free to add on to this list.

Just a suggested edit to one item:

12. Failed Faked suicide

 

[Warwick7]

I thought it sounded like the shooter was just outside the door frame (but not crouching) for the first shot at Paul. Then the angle on the second shot seemed to imply that the shooter shot from the hip? Hopefully, the prosecution will pull out these details in closing. It's the kind of testimony that some jurors will block out or only remember in a hazy way, because what with the crime scene pictures and the overall gruesomeness of this crime, it's very hard to wrap the mind around the details.

IMO.

Someone else said this earlier:
"Lets say AM had fired and ducked away, then pops back out in an aggressive pose, but the victim is right there close. Startled he fires the second shot without aiming. There was no time to shoulder the weapon."

Makes logical sense.

 

[LavenderGooms]

From the group text MM received that day, I believe it was John Marvin that drove him and it was 6-7.

Thank you!

 

[minor4th]

At the beginning of this case, I had a real problem with motive. But as the prosecution has provided more and more evidence of AM,s guilt, I find myself less concerned about his motive. It’s enough to prove that he did it; no need to prove he’s the kind of guy who would do something like this.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Agree, no conscious, able to justify to himself any action he deemed necessary. I don’t think he has the ability to be emotionally attached to anyone despite being very adept at mimicking genuine emotion. The defenses attempt to rehabilitate his character at any opportunity given is ridiculous because his actions belie any perceived "goodness". MOO

Certainly just speculation, but to add to your point, I believe that AM's drug addiction is merely a manipulation to explain his bad choices. If AM ever had an 'addiction', I don't believe it was serious. And I don't think MM would have tolerated it. MOO. I'd love to know what his tox screen results were. His claims of spending huge amounts for 'his addiction' would minimize his fiscal responsibility and his bad behavior; after all he wasn't in a rational mind set. It wasn't AM, it was his addiction. I do think he uses sympathy, subterfuge and bluffing to distract and divert as evidenced by his recorded LE interviews. I think he sold drugs for big money since it's been noted that he paid $4 million in interest alone on debt, $60,000 to an attorney to get BM back into law school after cheating charges, had almost $1 million in credit debt, wasn't paying mortgages, and applied for another $600 thousand in credit with promised signature from his father prior to the murders. Besides theft from clients, judgment cash may have been running out. In addition, he had PM's Beech lawsuit pending. I read that another big settlement got MM and BM's names dropped from the Beech lawsuit. Simply put, drug addiction would minimize AM's bad behavior and disallow drug distribution charges to be added to the mix. IMO, AM is 'the end justifies the means' type of character.

"Maggie and Buster Murdaugh’s names have been dropped from the lawsuit. Tinsley said in exchange, the victims - including Mallory Beach’s parents - will eventually be awarded hundreds of thousands of dollars.

“We are pleased with the court’s decision and feel like it was not only the best decision given the circumstances, but the only decision for all who had any real interest in the matter. We also believe the ruling will help give some closure to the people who so desperately deserve it,” Tinsley said."

Judge approves Mallory Beach wrongful death lawsuit settlement for Buster, Maggie Murdaugh

A judge has approved a settlement between the family of Mallory Beach, the young woman killed in a boat crash in 2019, and two of Alex Murdaugh’s family members, according to Beach family attorney Mark Tinsely.

www.wtoc.com

Jailhouse Calls: Alex Murdaugh's Quest To Get His Son Into Law School

Latest in the Murdaugh Murders Saga: Jailhouse calls show Alex Murdaugh's quest to get Buster Murdaugh readmitted to law school.

www.fitsnews.com

 

[detectivewannab]

I think we will see a very different type of defense when they start. Everything they do has a purpose. Like the John Grisham book.... they had that done for a reason. I have never watched a trail that was like a performance like this one.

 

[clearskies1]

I'm referring to the legality of it, not the actual defense.

In some states, the defendant has to file paperwork saying that they are going to use a SODDI defense - and they have to be specific. They can't just throw it in there at closing.

I thought for sure I'd seen someone here post the relevant filing by the defense, in which they state they're going to use an alibi defense. My question was: do they have to withdraw that formally and file a SODDI defense statement? I believe many states require this - I'm asking about SC.

As to the optics:

Using a blanket SODDI defense in closing is one thing. To really use it as a defense, the defense has to plausibly point to other people - meaning, names and reasons. That's why it's not usually allowed in, without notifying the judge. I suppose the defense can say anything it wants at closing (but can it accuse a vague person? is that allowed - that's my first question). But to actually put forth a SODDI defense, I do think they need to have a particular person or persons in mind and let the judge know that - as it's not okay to fling accusations at some other person during the trial of a particular person (another proceeding is needed for that). I think.

That's my set of questions. The alibi defense has been pretty much demolished. If AM wants to argue that he somehow was off the property and out of hearing 4-5 minutes after he was known to be in the presence of the victims, he has two problems - one is that he didn't hear the shooting and has no specific alibi for those 4-5 minutes, and the other is that someone else had to do it. Can he argue this during the defense portion without having notified the Court? Is it okay with the Court if AM's defense sort of vaguely says, "There were lots of other people who could have done it"? I suspect this latter approach is the best AM's defense can do - but they will have no evidence of these other killers to present.

When the Judge gives jury instructions, this will all be relevant. I think.

IMO.

Yeah, I don’t think they’re naming anyone specifically, just saying there are other people with motive. If they don’t try to admit affirmative evidence of someone else’s guilt I don’t think it’s an issue. But I’m not an expert on it.

 

[Warwick7]

Long post ahead —> Here are all the factors that point overwhelmingly to Alex’s guilt:
1. At the murder scene 4 minutes before M & P we’re shot. He either shot them himself or he heard or saw them being shot because he couldn’t have walked back to the house before they were shot. Obviously he shot them.

2.He gave false alibi for the time of the murders (on the couch napping). Repeatedly falsely claimed he had not been to kennels after dinner.

3. His secret life was about to be exposed to his family and the world. Typical family annihilator.

4. Paul and Maggie were only at Moselle because he beckoned them there. And then he lied and said Maggie came because she was worried about him.

5. Family weapons were used to commit the murders. The shotgun Alex was holding can’t be ruled out as murder weapon.

6. Paul’s 300 Blackout never found.

7. Maggie’s phone handled immediately after death and was disposed of along the route Alex drove minutes later.

8. Alex changed clothes at some point and the clothes and shoes he had been wearing have never been found.

9. AM tried to get Blanca to say he was wearing different clothes; he tried to get Shelley to say he was at mother’s house twice as long as he actually was there.

10. Called 911 17 seconds after Suburban stopped at kennels. No time to check pulses and turn Paul over and move his phone like he told cops.

11. Driving 80 mph on his way back from Alameda at 10:00 pm on a dark dangerous road.

12. Failed suicide

13. Confronted by P and M about bags of pills in his laptop shortly before murders.

14. Mad at Paul for costing him millions due to drunk boat crash that killed Mallory.

15. Drove past driveway to tree line and out buildings at mom’s house, likely hiding weapons and clothes.

16. Blue tarp carried into mothers house, likely concealing evidence.

17. All other suspects with possible motive have been ruled out.

18. P and M must have known and trusted their killer because no defense wounds.

19. He said he went to work 8:30-9:00 but it was actually after noon when he left for work. He had all morning to make preparations for killing.

20. No activity on his phone, no steps logged for AM at all between 8:05 pm and 9:02. He left his phone in the house when he went to kennels around 8:30.

21. When he texted and called Maggie at 9:00 ish to tell her he was leaving - he had just seen her at the kennel (and the defense has now admitted that), so these texts/calls were sent for the sole purpose of concealing his whereabouts at the murder scene.

There’s probably more. Feel free to add on to this list.

Perfect!!!

 

[clearskies1]

Sorry, I should have responded to boodles post...or I just should have not responded at all

All good!!

 

[Kudzuu]

Why exactly would the OnStar data be inaccurate? It's basically just data from GPS satellites that mark the exact time and location of AM's Chevy Suburban. In my experience GPS data is extremely accurate. I would trust it over eyewitness testimony or other 'direct' evidence.

And if the OnStar data was inaccurate wouldn't Harpootlian have challenged it during cross?

The OnStar data shows that AM was at the kennels at the time that MM and PM's phones go silent forever. And that he remained there for another 17 minutes afterwards before driving off to Almeda. You can try and dance around the electronic data and say that it's just circumstantial evidence, but it's hard to square it with Alex's assertions that he wasn't there at the time of the murders.

GPS data is not accurate enough for surveying. IIRC I think it is around six inches of tolerance. BUT in my experience with GPS data most of it is within an inch or two. It is accurate enough to show the path of the car to be used as evidence of it's whereabouts.

Anyone with an iphone that walks or jogs may be able to chime in on that device if they've plotted their walking or jogging paths.

Again this data is appropriate for its use here but it would not be used for property or highway surveying. FWIW it will also give elevations if the shot is on the ground.

 

[Skigirl]

The state took 20 days and still haven’t gotten me any closer to believing AM is guilty. Their case is100% circumstantial. And it’s a WEAK circumstantial case IMO. The best evidence they presented was the Onstar data IMO. And I wonder EXACTLY how accurate that even is. They want to bring up his financial crimes and addiction problems. Yes, he is a and a thief and he’s screwed a lot of people over. But IMO there is a very bold line between financial crimes and killing your family. IMO

Hi dick

 

[minor4th]

I would even argue that you could throw out every piece of prosecution evidence except for the 8:44pm video and he would be found guilty. The defense hasn’t even tried to refute it and it is the cornerstone of the case against him. Everything else fills in the picture, but that video is his downfall.
Bravo Little Detective!

I totally agree. Add to that the fact that family-owned weapons were used for the murders, and what else do you even need to know?

 

[Warwick7]

Hi dick

BAM!!!!!

 

[Skigirl]

You know, the bizarre thing about demanding direct evidence is that eyewitness testimony is extremely weak and very often inaccurate. Whereas DNA, which is circumstantial evidence, is incredibly accurate.

Science has uncovered the truth about both of those types of evidence since the 1980s, and yet peoples' perception of what is strong or weak evidence has not kept up.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Long post ahead —> Here are all the factors that point overwhelmingly to Alex’s guilt:
1. At the murder scene 4 minutes before M & P we’re shot. He either shot them himself or he heard or saw them being shot because he couldn’t have walked back to the house before they were shot. Obviously he shot them.

2.He gave false alibi for the time of the murders (on the couch napping). Repeatedly falsely claimed he had not been to kennels after dinner.

3. His secret life was about to be exposed to his family and the world. Typical family annihilator.

4. Paul and Maggie were only at Moselle because he beckoned them there. And then he lied and said Maggie came because she was worried about him.

5. Family weapons were used to commit the murders. The shotgun Alex was holding can’t be ruled out as murder weapon.

6. Paul’s 300 Blackout never found.

7. Maggie’s phone handled immediately after death and was disposed of along the route Alex drove minutes later.

8. Alex changed clothes at some point and the clothes and shoes he had been wearing have never been found.

9. AM tried to get Blanca to say he was wearing different clothes; he tried to get Shelley to say he was at mother’s house twice as long as he actually was there.

10. Called 911 17 seconds after Suburban stopped at kennels. No time to check pulses and turn Paul over and move his phone like he told cops.

11. Driving 80 mph on his way back from Alameda at 10:00 pm on a dark dangerous road.

12. Failed suicide

13. Confronted by P and M about bags of pills in his laptop shortly before murders.

14. Mad at Paul for costing him millions due to drunk boat crash that killed Mallory.

15. Drove past driveway to tree line and out buildings at mom’s house, likely hiding weapons and clothes.

16. Blue tarp carried into mothers house, likely concealing evidence.

17. All other suspects with possible motive have been ruled out.

18. P and M must have known and trusted their killer because no defense wounds.

19. He said he went to work 8:30-9:00 but it was actually after noon when he left for work. He had all morning to make preparations for killing.

20. No activity on his phone, no steps logged for AM at all between 8:05 pm and 9:02. He left his phone in the house when he went to kennels around 8:30.

21. When he texted and called Maggie at 9:00 ish to tell her he was leaving - he had just seen her at the kennel (and the defense has now admitted that), so these texts/calls were sent for the sole purpose of concealing his whereabouts at the murder scene.

There’s probably more. Feel free to add on to this list.

# 7 phone disposed of at same time as he went by the area where found, not just in the area he went by. Thanks.

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1627340145899839490

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Certainly just speculation, but to add to your point, I believe that AM's drug addiction is merely a manipulation to explain his bad choices. If AM ever had an 'addiction', I don't believe it was serious. And I don't think MM would have tolerated it. MOO. I'd love to know what his tox screen results were. His claims of spending huge amounts for 'his addiction' would minimize his fiscal responsibility and his bad behavior; after all he wasn't in a rational mind set. It wasn't AM, it was his addiction. I do think he uses sympathy, subterfuge and bluffing to distract and divert as evidenced by his recorded LE interviews. I think he sold drugs for big money since it's been noted that he paid $4 million in interest alone on debt, $60,000 to an attorney to get BM back into law school after cheating charges, had almost $1 million in credit debt, wasn't paying mortgages, and applied for another $600 thousand in credit with promised signature from his father prior to the murders. Besides theft from clients, judgment cash may have been running out. In addition, he had PM's Beech lawsuit pending. I read that another big settlement got MM and BM's names dropped from the Beech lawsuit. Simply put, drug addiction would minimize AM's bad behavior and disallow drug distribution charges to be added to the mix. IMO, AM is 'the end justifies the means' type of character.

"Maggie and Buster Murdaugh’s names have been dropped from the lawsuit. Tinsley said in exchange, the victims - including Mallory Beach’s parents - will eventually be awarded hundreds of thousands of dollars.

“We are pleased with the court’s decision and feel like it was not only the best decision given the circumstances, but the only decision for all who had any real interest in the matter. We also believe the ruling will help give some closure to the people who so desperately deserve it,” Tinsley said."

Judge approves Mallory Beach wrongful death lawsuit settlement for Buster, Maggie Murdaugh

A judge has approved a settlement between the family of Mallory Beach, the young woman killed in a boat crash in 2019, and two of Alex Murdaugh’s family members, according to Beach family attorney Mark Tinsely.

www.wtoc.com

Jailhouse Calls: Alex Murdaugh's Quest To Get His Son Into Law School

Latest in the Murdaugh Murders Saga: Jailhouse calls show Alex Murdaugh's quest to get Buster Murdaugh readmitted to law school.

www.fitsnews.com

Agree 100%. While acknowledging that opioid addiction is very real and one of the most prevalent addictions I too question his “addiction”. It will be interesting to see if defense brings fourth doctors to verify this addiction. If not, definitely a ploy. MOO

 

[Kudzuu]

Here's a thought about a gun or guns being at the kennels.

Coyotes. Where I live they are legal to kill because their population has exploded to the point they are pests due to killing livestock and wildlife and pets.

Most hunters I know kill them. And then there is the testimony about the feral pigs who are also nocturnal. A hunter would have a gun or guns at the ready. AR rifles equipped with a scope are used to hunt them. It makes perfect sense to leave a rifle in the atv in case you run across a pig or coyote.