Searchers and the Motion Regarding TES

[notthatsmart]

Wow, I saw a video by the searcher from the other end of the block on Suburban. He sure was confident. He said he went right down in the water and left nothing unturned. Thats the kind of confidence I like to see. A searcher that is not afraid to get their hands dirty. I tip my hat to the man. I just wished he was the one searching down there by Caylee.

 

[sleutherontheside]

I had taken this photo at the end of June 2009..7 months after Caylee was found. I thought I had deleted it from my camera but found it today while looking for photos for our Christmas card. I uploaded it just now and while it is blurry (taken as we drove by in a moving car), it shows how overgrown that area is even after having been cleared. Additionally.....there is a GREAT DEAL of standing water. SO for any people who think that it was a mere 6 inches.....consider the overgrowth after just 7 months and the amount of water.

 

[cecybeans]

I had taken this photo at the end of June 2009..7 months after Caylee was found. I thought I had deleted it from my camera but found it today while looking for photos for our Christmas card. I uploaded it just now and while it is blurry (taken as we drove by in a moving car), it shows how overgrown that area is even after having been cleared. Additionally.....there is a GREAT DEAL of standing water. SO for any people who think that it was a mere 6 inches.....consider the overgrowth after just 7 months and the amount of water. View attachment 6519

Thanks - one can only imagine how overgrown it was in 2008 before all the vegetation had been razed.

Even without all the water present, the foliage was thick enough to have professional search efforts be much stricter than perhaps a volunteer organization would be capable of handling. I'd say given the condition of Caylee's remains even at that time, something on the order of archeologists or anthropologist training could have been necessary to preserve the rest of the evidence at the scene. I'm glad LE had its trained experts on the scene and it was relatively undisturbed compared to what might have happened otherwise.

 

[CuriousTwo]

I just really want to hear more details about their search of the area the remains were found in. LE found quite a bit of trash there, along with the bags and remains. Did the searchers see any bags, or pieces of plastic bag? Did they see any of the other trash?

They state that they didn't see anything unusual, but that doesn't mean they didn't see anything at all. Did they see trash and bags, and just not think that was unusual?

IIRC, it was mentioned that this area was a dumping ground and full of debris. They had to have found many plastic bags and/or pieces of them. Can't wait to hear the details at trial.

 

[eaglemom]

bump...

 

[Baznme]

SOJU.....You are welcome. I thought that JJ guy had a lot of posts about a year or so ago.

Yes, he did and IIRC he posted pic's of everywhere they searched. His searches were done on his own and not TES affiliated. First and foremost, TES does not allow pic's to be taken of anywhere they search. That's for LE to do IF they find anything. There are a couple of websites that were made of all the pic's taken by JJ, only I wouldn't know where to look to find them now. Does anyone remember? It would be interesting to see if there are any pic's of Suburban Drive in there.

Just for the record, Tim M. can tell you first hand there have people that they have searched for 3, 4, 5 or more times in the very same areas and didn't find them, but that last search, they were found so for JJ to say that she wasn't there is a pretty bold statement to make. They simply did not find her when they were there. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't ask Tim M. this type of question during the trial. As a matter of fact, I hope they do.

 

[Baznme]

Morning folks,
This is interesting and now wondering if Laura Buchanan was also a part of this JJ's team of 15 searchers...?...

Was thinking also, wonder if the prosecutors know about this information that JJ was spreading all over the web? or Nejame?
We can assume they both Know but what if they Don't?...
This pertinent information would make good argument against the defense seeking All TES searchers records... simply, there were 'independent' searchers out there searching on their own that Were or Are TES volunteers Using the name TES but Not on a 'scheduled or approved search' by TES organization. Furthermore, squash the defense motion that TES did not provide the correct records that Strickland ruled to disclose.

Maybe Kathy Belich can use this information on JJ to further this story?
Just a thought if anyone has ties to bring this out in the open.


:croc: go get em!

I know that some people who were TES members at that time and probably still are wanted to participate. Myself included. Who did or didn't, I don't know. I just know that I didn't participate because it was not a TES sanctioned search and I'm so glad now that I didn't. His group had good intentions, I'm sure but, now look where this has gotten them? They could be brought in to testify for the defense? Wow, kind of backfired on them, don't ya think?

During the searches for Caylee last fall, there was a good month we (TES) was not able to search safely due to so much water. We had 26 inches of water from Tropical Storm Fay in 4 days. The cow pastures looked like endless lakes. You couldn't walk into the woods 3 feet and you were in water mid-thigh and stuck in the mud. There was no way to see what was in the water, gators included as the water was the color of dark tea from all the peat in the soil. It took a couple of months for the water to drain we were so saturated. JJ and his group may have been in that area but depending on when that was would indicate to me about how much he was able to observe. If they saw no debris, it was under water and so was Caylee. IMO

 

[seagull65]

quoting from the water level analysis by Dr. Jawitz just released in discovery (my typing, please excuse typos):

"This analysis indicates that for most of the entire period from 16 June 2008 to 11 December 2008,
Area A was not inundated. The water level at the site was high enough to submerge Area A
between 18 August 2008 and 28 August 2008. "


http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/120909anthony/1/lg/12379-12388_Page_07.htmI

According to the analysis, if I'm reading this correctly, Area A had, at the highest water level in 2008, not more than a half foot of water, and this only during that ten day period in August. For the rest of the period from June 16 to Dec 11 2008 Area A was not under water.

Area A contained, IIRC, the skull, which was upright, and much of the remains.

 

[Harmony 2]

quoting from the water level analysis by Dr. Jawitz just released in discovery (my typing, please excuse typos):

"This analysis indicates that for most of the entire period from 16 June 2008 to 11 December 2008,
Area A was not inundated. The water level at the site was high enough to submerge Area A
between 18 August 2008 and 28 August 2008. "


http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/120909anthony/1/lg/12379-12388_Page_07.htmI

According to the analysis, if I'm reading this correctly, Area A had, at the highest water level in 2008, not more than a half foot of water, and this only during that ten day period in August. For the rest of the period from June 16 to Dec 11 2008 Area A was not under water.

Area A contained, IIRC, the skull, which was upright, and much of the remains.

Good morning SG!!

Your fox orlando link is broken...

 

[Baznme]

quoting from the water level analysis by Dr. Jawitz just released in discovery (my typing, please excuse typos):

"This analysis indicates that for most of the entire period from 16 June 2008 to 11 December 2008,
Area A was not inundated. The water level at the site was high enough to submerge Area A
between 18 August 2008 and 28 August 2008. "


http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/120909anthony/1/lg/12379-12388_Page_07.htmI

According to the analysis, if I'm reading this correctly, Area A had, at the highest water level in 2008, not more than a half foot of water, and this only during that ten day period in August. For the rest of the period from June 16 to Dec 11 2008 Area A was not under water.

Area A contained, IIRC, the skull, which was upright, and much of the remains.

This analysis seems off to me. Tropical Storm Faye dumped a half a foot of rain in one day and it rained for 4 days! It's not making sense.

 

[LC446]

This analysis seems off to me. Tropical Storm Faye dumped a half a foot of rain in one day and it rained for 4 days! It's not making sense.

I know, I thought the same thing! Valhall's was much easier to understand and read. It's very helpful to hear from people who actually participated in the search and saw the Orlando area during the time the searches were conducted. It paints a much better picture. I appreciate reading your input and observations. Thanks!

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Personally, I'm not concerned one bit about any searchers in the area not finding anything. They key word, is they didn't find anything. LE collected a lot of debris and garbage and such believing it could possibly be pertinent to this case. So . . . searchers not finding any of that stuff tells you something.

Besides, how many times have we searched our houses looking for something - searched and searched and searched again - maybe even had someone else help but not find it - only to find it in a somewhat obvious spot at a later time.

This whole "the searchers didn't find her" thing is silly. Means absolutely nothing. IMO, of course.

 

[notthatsmart]

It is interesting to think that they recorded things that they did see. Anyway I understand that police record these things. So, even if they didn't find a body, it should still be possible that they saw something tied to the scene. I wonder where these recordings are. For instance, I saw JA in one photo searching off of Suburban. He interviewed JW out there at the end of the fence in October. I would think he would have searched right afterwards. They were standing within 80 feet of the body while they were talking.

 

[cecybeans]

It is interesting to think that they recorded things that they did see. Anyway I understand that police record these things. So, even if they didn't find a body, it should still be possible that they saw something tied to the scene. I wonder where these recordings are. For instance, I saw JA in one photo searching off of Suburban. He interviewed JW out there at the end of the fence in October. I would think he would have searched right afterwards. They were standing within 80 feet of the body while they were talking.

I read that interview with him and JW - and I could hardly understand what she was saying, the poor thing was almost incoherent and kept jumping back and forth about where she had searched and when; it was very hard to follow. Also, she mentioned she had just taken those pictures to the Anthony home and MB was not interested in the slightest. I think somebody who was perhaps more credible sounding or could have communicated better might have made an impression on LE but sadly, JW is not that person.

 

[notthatsmart]

I read that interview with him and JW - and I could hardly understand what she was saying, the poor thing was almost incoherent and kept jumping back and forth about where she had searched and when; it was very hard to follow. Also, she mentioned she had just taken those pictures to the Anthony home and MB was not interested in the slightest. I think somebody who was perhaps more credible sounding or could have communicated better might have made an impression on LE but sadly, JW is not that person.

I understand that she has been baker acted, and that she is confused, However, if she has photos of the areas that had items, like disney bag, gatorade bottle, blanket, ect, then the photos would be of great value. I am also interested in a picture that fits RK Description on Aug 11th. Ie white board, mowed area, fallen log.

 

[cecybeans]

I understand that she has been baker acted, and that she is confused, However, if she has photos of the areas that had items, like disney bag, gatorade bottle, blanket, ect, then the photos would be of great value. I am also interested in a picture that fits RK Description on Aug 11th. Ie white board, mowed area, fallen log.

ITA - and I'm sure that since LE now has looked at her computer, they will be able to see if the pictures she took have evidentiary value.

 

[Ripley007]

I'm going to post without reading this whole thread. Probably will bite me in butt in the end, but here goes...............
WHY do some (like the media!) think that Caylee's "dump" site was KC's childhood play area and Kio and others Pet cemetary??????? It is most certainly NOT the same spot. Am I right or am i right? so how do we dispell the media myths??????????

 

[Harmony 2]

I'm going to post without reading this whole thread. Probably will bite me in butt in the end, but here goes...............
WHY do some (like the media!) think that Caylee's "dump" site was KC's childhood play area and Kio and others Pet cemetary??????? It is most certainly NOT the same spot. Am I right or am i right? so how do we dispell the media myths??????????

You are right. For a long time I thought they were the same because of the media and discussion on forums perpetuating the myth. It wasn't until very recently I realized that they are indeed not in the same spot. The remains site is close to the end of the backyard fence of the home at the corner of Suburban and HopeSpring. According to Kiomarie's interview and Joyce and Bailey Dickens, who are residents on Hopespring, the pet cemetery was behind the school close to the deadend of Suburban Dr.
(Note: My arrows may not be pointing to the exact spots... they are pointing to the general area)

Kiomarie Cruz transcript:
http://itsamysterytome.wordpress.com/2008/12/16/kiomarie-cruz-le-interview-transcript/

Joyce and Bailey Dickens interview- describe the pet cemetary site:
timestamp 3:35

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSBGyYFwtTk&feature=PlayList&p=36B3E53DBDA1C2F2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=36[/ame]

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

I STILL think these searchers, who were in the area and didn't find a body, is still slightly a non issue, IMO. Even the searchers with dogs.
I keep going back to the Elizabeth Olten Case....the location where she was found was searched TWICE by LE. Now, gonna hate talking like this....but....that body was pretty "fresh", so to speak. Surely, at that point in decomposition, there would be a DEFINITE smell, again, IMO. The murderer had to show where the body was hidden.
These searchers for Caylee said there wasn't even any "smell".....why WOULD there be a smell...the poor child was there for a month before anyone even KNEW she was missing. In Florida, as said by many experts, Caylee's body would pretty much have been bones....we KNOW the decomposition process was well on it's way in the trunk of her mothers car....but, THIS murderer couldn't be even human enough to tell LE where little Caylee's body was.

AND....the defense seems to be pushing the issue about the body not being there....to indulge their theory, just because the body wasn't there (which, due to all the evidence we KNOW it was) THAT fact still doesn't say KC didn't murder Caylee....it just, in their arguments, means someone else put the body there....obviously impossible due to the state of decomp even in the trunk.....AND the state of the body as it goes further thru the stages of decomp....there's no way in heck the jury is gonna put any credence to this defense, IMO, because the decomp (and other evidence) from her car trunk DIRECTLY links a deceased Caylee in the trunk...or another dead body??? She played Mafia Wars, you know...GA said "the dead body in that car was not my grand daughter"...

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

I'm going to post without reading this whole thread. Probably will bite me in butt in the end, but here goes...............
WHY do some (like the media!) think that Caylee's "dump" site was KC's childhood play area and Kio and others Pet cemetary??????? It is most certainly NOT the same spot. Am I right or am i right? so how do we dispell the media myths??????????

ITA...perhaps someone has gone thru that on the "Myths" thread??? If not...definitely a great myth to "debunk".