Searches for Lisa

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Stepping on their investigation. And having to respond to a lot of calls they wouldn't otherwise get, tying up an already very busy day.

JMO, of course.

A lot of calls with potential evidence that may or may not have to do with the case?

I'm not a big fan of psychics but I guess at this point, any effort by anyone I would consider a plus as long as it doesn't interfere with the investigation.

Finding Lisa is what is important.

Is this the same psychic I linked to earlier? I'll go find my post.

ETA: Not the same one.

http://www.prlog.org/11716863-northern-kentucky-moms-against-crime.html
 
A lot of calls with potential evidence that may or may not have to do with the case?

I'm not a big fan of psychics but I guess at this point, any effort by anyone I would consider a plus as long as it doesn't interfere with the investigation.

Finding Lisa is what is important.

Is this the same psychic I linked to earlier? I'll go find my post.

ETA: Not the same one.

http://www.prlog.org/11716863-northern-kentucky-moms-against-crime.html

I think finding Lisa is vitally important. I just think that for the most part, psychics tend to be obstructive in search efforts for missing persons.

What will these searchers be looking for in terms of evidence? Do they have any idea? I mean... barring a body? Might someone show up who has involvement in the case and plant evidence? Happens more frequently than we'd like to think. And why would searchers be instructed to call 911? There is a LE tipline available that will not tie up emergency services.
And speaking of emergency services- while this may very well be a good intentioned effort- in my experience most 911 calls made during volunteer searches conducted by unqualified and/or untrained persons are the result of illness or injury to a volunteer. Sprained ankles, heatstroke, frostbite, heart attacks, etc.

I would be surprised if LE is happy about this search. With the singular exception being that perhaps someone will show up who is involved with the case- and they'll be watching for that.

Again- just my experience and mvhoo.
 
If this is the area where she was hidden, they have had plenty of notice to go move evidence. Hopefully they are looking for just that...
 
I think finding Lisa is vitally important. I just think that for the most part, psychics tend to be obstructive in search efforts for missing persons.

What will these searchers be looking for in terms of evidence? Do they have any idea? I mean... barring a body? Might someone show up who has involvement in the case and plant evidence? Happens more frequently than we'd like to think. And why would searchers be instructed to call 911? There is a LE tipline available that will not tie up emergency services.
And speaking of emergency services- while this may very well be a good intentioned effort- in my experience most 911 calls made during volunteer searches conducted by unqualified and/or untrained persons are the result of illness or injury to a volunteer. Sprained ankles, heatstroke, frostbite, heart attacks, etc.

I would be surprised if LE is happy about this search. With the singular exception being that perhaps someone will show up who is involved with the case- and they'll be watching for that.

Again- just my experience and mvhoo.
The instruction of call 911 if you find something (what is something?) definitely sounds like they have not coordinated with LE. Why would you not at least have a representative LE member with you if you are conducting a legitimate mass search?

Like I have mentioned before, we were very kindly asked to NOT search on our own around here, but to call if we had an area we thought needed searched. I would say it is for the very reasons you listed above.
 
The instruction of call 911 if you find something (what is something?) definitely sounds like they have not coordinated with LE. Why would you not at least have a representative LE member with you if you are conducting a legitimate mass search?

Like I have mentioned before, we were very kindly asked to NOT search on our own around here, but to call if we had an area we thought needed searched. I would say it is for the very reasons you listed above.

Why didn't the police ask all the kind people who wanted to volunteer to search to spread out to further areas and put up posters. That would not interfer with police activity, disrupt any clues known only by LE, and help the situation in the long run.
 
I think this is going to be fruitless effort on part of the searchers and I consider it more than a theory it's another allegation. If this was a wealthy family in this turmoil you wouldn't see all this. And this will make her or break her.
So let them search because the bright side is, it's keeping the baby's name out there.
The child may be out of the country. I think LE and the FBI know and they don't need a local command center. That's just my opinion.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone. I'm going to eat turkey.
 
Well, to paraphrase what another poster said, I am encouraged. And for the other reasons stated by some others, a public search is a bit dangerous, and possibly could corrupt evidence.

At this point I am sure LE has wind of this, and if they find it is worthy and near where the sighting was of the man with the baby, and also within a 2 mile radius of the home, I hope it may be worthy for them to send someone to manage, oversee or even possibly hold off the search for a follow up time.

There have been some cases where the missing have been found, and very close to the home, and not by LE. Not by searchers either, but this is just my assessment, I always read that many people/children are eventually found near their homes. Just because if/when there is foul play, the perps don't have time to travel too far. Unless they are skillfully planned in advance. And somehow I am not seeing that here. JMO

I give the psychic weight, because I am mildly psychic and my first post on the LI thread was about my dream of a baby that had been "forgotten" by the mother. I was sparked to write, because another poster wrote of her dream of a baby that was "lost" by the mother. She had more location details in her dream, if i can find the post i will post it, something i remember about bricks ( a bridge perhaps?) In my dream the mother was frantic, in that she had done something accidentally, and in my dream, she was totally unaware of it. When reminded, she freaked out. There was a ranch home involved and the mother was me, so i couldn't see her, often, I am the one playing the role, like an actor. There was a man and then other men I remember, asking me where she was. But i knew, i had done something wrong, I felt a tremendous amount of guilt. It could be interpreted that i felt i was guilty because i was drunk or unaware when i should have been, but since that news about DB broke days later, i felt initially when I had the dream, that I had been doing something wrong and something happened to her that I could have prevented. And I think something definitely had to do with being outside.

I found this thread again, hadn't been on websleuths since the kyron case broke, when i had the dream and googled missing baby and lisa had just been announced missing, I had the dream the night of the disappearance or the night or two before.

I always dream of soon to be current events. OJ being one of them. Right before they happen. My dream could have been related to another baby, but it was coincidentally timed.

On the other hand, I have sat in on psychic lectures where the psychic will nail several people on their lives and people in them, and then flounder with others. Obviously it cannot be counted on entirely, and sometimes they get mixed signals.

Wild goose chases are disappointing, but this particular psychic they have reported about this time, regarding the beautiful Lisa, came up with a location unfamiliar to her, she's in another state, other people recognized the location and reportedly it is within 1-2 miles of Lisa's home?

I have to go with, follow the lead. I hope LE does too, so that it can be done properly.

Even though I think worth investigating, I hope it's wrong.

MOO
 
A bit over a mile or so. Maybe two miles. The property on the north west quadrant of the river and 435 highway

I'm glad to hear about searches for Lisa but this person in the article also got involved with Haleigh Cummings case. There are many stories about her and this article reads about like when she came upon Haleigh's case. Search her online for background info. That's as polite as I can put it. jmo
 
I'm glad to hear about searches for Lisa but this person in the article also got involved with Haleigh Cummings case. There are many stories about her and this article reads about like when she came upon Haleigh's case. Search her online for background info. That's as polite as I can put it. jmo

I was wondering who the poster was. Thanks. I see LE left and the person that supposedly called about the smell wasn't there. Must be a hoax. Lisa was probably put in the River Imo
 
Someone called about a smell in this area that the psychic fingered?
 
That was my understanding, can't remember where I read it -a strong bad smell.
 
I am interested to hear peoples' thoughts on these type of 'searches.' There seems to be much debate regarding missing persons, and whether or not searching for them should be somewhat of a free-for-all for the public... or should be restricted to LE and professional SAR.

I find the correlation interesting when combined with public opinions on guilt or innocence of a possible perpetrator.

It seems that when the public tends to believe a crime has been committed against a missing person (either by intent or neglect- especially a crime against a child) they are more likely to side with the concept of preserving evidence, so that justice can be had for the victim. Thus leaning more toward LE or professional SAR conducting searches.

If no crime is thought to have been committed, and the missing person just goes...missing... then public opinion seems to lean toward volunteer and community searches being encouraged in order to assist in recovery and closure for the loved ones of the victim.

The search planned for baby Lisa tomorrow has me wondering which motivational standpoint the psychic planning it, is coming from.

LE has made it clear that they do not want rougue 'searches' being conducted by random individuals- which to me says they believe there is the possibility of evidence being out there that needs to be preserved, and needs to be part of a proper chain of command in the event a criminal case goes to trial.

But still, John Q Public seems to often resist that thought. If I were a detective working this case- this would make me insane. And as K9 SAR, it makes me a tad insane just reading that if anyone has a good hunting or hound dog, they should bring them out to this 'search.'

I feel baby Lisa is being further victimized by this. I'd be curious to hear what LE thinks.

Thoughts, anyone?
 
I dunno... I'm a bit torn. I understand about the need to preserve evidence and about the lots of ways that volunteer searchers can get it wrong if they're not educated about what to do and what not to do if they find anything and if they're not coordinating it with LE and getting an OK to search a certain area.

But on the other hand, preserving the evidence in pristine shape does nobody any good if it never gets found. If the police don't have the resources to search somewhere that needs to be searched I'm glad that someone does. A lot of the evidence is destroyed by the passage of time and if volunteers find it sooner there is more left for the police to examine.
 
I dunno... I'm a bit torn. I understand about the need to preserve evidence and about the lots of ways that volunteer searchers can get it wrong if they're not educated about what to do and what not to do if they find anything and if they're not coordinating it with LE and getting an OK to search a certain area.

But on the other hand, preserving the evidence in pristine shape does nobody any good if it never gets found. If the police don't have the resources to search somewhere that needs to be searched I'm glad that someone does. A lot of the evidence is destroyed by the passage of time and if volunteers find it sooner there is more left for the police to examine.

Thanks for your perspective, Donjeta. :)

I am truly interested in this, and how different public perceptions can be used to help in the search for missing persons.

Now let's say you were a family member of a missing person (parent, child, spouse, grandparent etc) and you believe that you might know the person responsible for the disappearance of your loved one- and you believe LE does as well- and you believe a crime had been committed. LE is telling you they are working leads, you believe them- and they are requesting any search efforts be cleared through them.

In the meantime, your friends and family and community are calling you (as well as total strangers) telling you that you should be out searching, or they will go out and search for you.

What would people be thinking/feeling then? Do you think most people would say "Go ahead, please"? Or do you think most would say, "Hold off and call LE with areas you think need be searched"? Or do you think it would be roughly 50/50?
TIA for your imput!
 
I suppose it depends partly on the degree of trust the family has that LE is going to solve it. I know some family members are tirelessly searching on their own long after LE seems to have given up. But I would prefer it if they didn't have to. It should ideally be somebody else to find the remains IMO. What a heartbreaking situation for a family member if they happened to find a brutal crime scene, and there might be some problems with contaminating the scene. What if they get accused of knowing where the body was and then "finding it"?

Sometimes it might be a no-can-do situation. If you suspect that the perp buried the body on private property it would not be legally possible for volunteers to search there if the owner doesn't agree, and even the police need a warrant. So volunteer searchers might be in the woods day after day, week after week, taking all kinds of risks for nothing.

But I think if my loved one was out there I might be out there searching too . I don't know... I think it's a case of the heart and the reason don't always say the same thing. If you have a missing loved one many people would feel like they need to do SOMETHING. Some may not have the strength, or have nowhere to start searching.

Flyers... In any case, flyers couldn't hurt, could they?
 
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I suppose it depends partly on the degree of trust the family has that LE is going to solve it. I know some family members are tirelessly searching on their own long after LE seems to have given up. But I would prefer it if they didn't have to. It should ideally be somebody else to find the remains IMO. What a heartbreaking situation for a family member if they happened to find a brutal crime scene, and there might be some problems with contaminating the scene. What if they get accused of knowing where the body was and then "finding it"?
Sometimes it might be a no-can-do situation. If you suspect that the perp buried the body on private property it would not be legally possible for volunteers to search there if the owner doesn't agree, and even the police need a warrant. So volunteer searchers might be in the woods day after day, week after week, taking all kinds of risks for nothing.

But I think if my loved one was out there I might be out there searching too . I don't know... I think it's a case of the heart and the reason don't always say the same thing. If you have a missing loved one many people would feel like they need to do SOMETHING. Some may not have the strength, or have nowhere to start searching.

Flyers... In any case, flyers couldn't hurt, could they?[/quote]>

BBM:
No, no I do not think flyers hurt at all.
As long as they are not fraudulent or misrepresented in any way; and just get the missing persons face, name, vital info, what they had with them when they went missing, etc-and the LE agency to contact- they do nothing but good, IMO.

Flyers/posters are a great way for searchers to help (especially when LE has requested all physical search efforts be sanctioned by them.)

Thanks again for your thoughts. :)
 
Donjeta, I agree with everything you posted and am of the same opinion.
 
LE has made it clear that they do not want rougue 'searches' being conducted by random

As much as I hate to say it, I wanted to clarify the situation because I was curious if the police department was going to shut down the search tomorrow.

I called the Kansas City, Missouri police department this morning and I asked to speak to someone regarding the "community search" tomorrow morning (11/26/2011). I was transfered to the "Crimes Against Chidlrens" unit and spoke with a "Detective Alberts".
I asked him about the community search for Lisa Irwin, or any other parties searching areas for her."


He stated, "Anyone is allowed to go out and search as long as the group performing the search obtains permission from the land owner(s) where the search would take place, including land they might cross to get to other areas.
 
As much as I hate to say it, I wanted to clarify the situation because I was curious if the police department was going to shut down the search tomorrow.

I called the Kansas City, Missouri police department this morning and I asked to speak to someone regarding the "community search" tomorrow morning (11/26/2011). I was transfered to the "Crimes Against Chidlrens" unit and spoke with a "Detective Alberts".
I asked him about the community search for Lisa Irwin, or any other parties searching areas for her."


He stated, "Anyone is allowed to go out and search as long as the group performing the search obtains permission from the land owner(s) where the search would take place, including land they might cross to get to other areas.

Thanks indepmo. I wonder how that affects the private property regarding the casino? Anyone is always able to walk public land- I was very curious as to how the PD felt considering the nature of the way this search is being promoted online. But I gather they are not making any statements about that.
Seems like locals have already been asked to not search, except to be alert on their own properties?
Anyway- thank you for calling.
 

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