Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #5

[TexMex]

She doesn't sound suicidal in the gchat IMO. Travis sounds mad that she's hacking his email and Facebook, like Taylor said IMO the ruining comments reflect his despair about Lisa. At this point in May he'd called Lisa, left a message and days have gone by...he is still waiting on her to reply. He knows that his addiction to Jodi was a huge cause of Lisa breaking up with him and he hates himself for it. Yet he says just hearing Jodi's voice tempts him. He says she knows he will always take her back. Even though she slashed his tires he couldn't stay away. She "manipulated" him into loving her and it's ruined him because he lost Lisa

Psychiatric advice :twocents:

Audio of gchat

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zGueroNxp8c

 

[pocketaccent]

You know I agree about the time stamps.


The last photo of Travis in the shower....I think one's interpretation of his expression is connected to what one believes about whether or not he gave her permission to take photos of him in the shower, and that is based on whether or not he freely had sex and hung out with her that day, and that is based on whether one believes she was able to manipulate him one last time, and that is based on whether or not he really cut off contact with her on May 26, and that is based on what one believes was really happening on May 26 and earlier in May, and whether or not Travis was genuinely afraid of her, afraid of what she might do to destroy his life, and afraid - before May 26- that she might kill herself if he cut her off altogether.


I see anger in his expression. Not fear. Yet...he's sitting down in the shower, the water is on, pouring over his face, and he's not trying to brush it off his face- he seems entirely focused on her. Nothing natural about that, not even if he's trying to accommodate her whims, which I don't believe for a minute.

Because I believe everything I believe up until the shower photos, I'm convinced he was being coerced by her while he was in the shower.

I also believe that at least up until the time he turns, startled, towards the camera, it isn't very likely he believed his life was in danger. Too many minutes go by. Yes, he's naked and vulnerable, but he's standing up, she's only a few feet away, and he is very capable of overpowering her, even if she's holding a gun. If she was at that point.

Hope, I read your post very slowly digesting every words and also your logic in the first paragraph.
Oh my goodness, this is so sad. No wonder you kept saying -it's sad -in your prior posts.
June 4th was one horrific day from beginning to end for Travis.

 

[geevee]

GeeVee, the quality of the image being used is very poor. Taken from a shot of a monitor offering no valuable comparison to the actual photo shown in Juan's book. We have to work with reproduced copies, of course, for all documents and can't access the actual pics. This make it much harder to accurately view photos. That you managed to highlight it at all has been very helpful to pinpoint it.

I have looked at the above image - as hard to make out as it is - on my macbook pro, my husbands' mac and my iPad. In my sunny study, with no lights on, no light behind me, I get glare on all screens. I can see my fingers and even my face on the monitors. The brightly lit courtroom reflected something from the desk back on to the monitor. To me, it looks like fingers, not toes. I can see what looks like a gold ring in the blur.

Even if - as you suggest - there are toes - the angle is very strange in the context of the entire picture.

I ask you to please answer this: If the toes were displayed on the identical photo in court, why did the prosecution, jury, defense, reporters, photographic experts miss them? In both trials? Why is there no sign of them in the photograph - which is a wider, better quality shot - in Juan's book below?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=90555&d=1457951352

Thanks.

I don't believe JM (or maybe even Melendez) were interested in the particular content aside from the overall picture of each accidental photo - JM never pointed out what looks too much like Arias' dark hair and shelf of her jaw in the ceiling photo for it not to be that, he mever noticed (and neither apparently did Melendez when getting the pics into a visible form) that in the 'dragging' pic (5:33:32) that those are fingers in the forefront so it makes it very unlikely that directly behind them is Travis' back with "the same pattern of blood dripping down" as 5:32:16 - the scale is too far off for that to have been his back when a little color adjustment shows the fingers closest to the lens.

He didn't need these finite details to convict her, but we, sleuthers that we are, are very interested in them. 5:32:16 was not taken when both subjects were stationary, they are obviously in motion, the camera, having been hit hard enough to snap the pic, is also in some amount of motion, there is bound to be blur in what the camera captures, what's in that blur is an obvious debate so we'll just have to agree to disagree on what we see. My words may sound strong but my interior voice is actually quite soft and gentle, no disrespect ever intended on anyone's viewpoint.

 

[LinasK]

Very impressive to do that at 58.
Texas A&M University grad. I'm in my early 50's and retired. Luckily made good investments and had some natural gas wells on some family property in East Texas...

I think the fact that she was after new prey (Ryan was a PPL success) and Travis easily could get word to him about tire slashing, stalking etc was a huge motive. She was almost 28, had just wasted almost 2 years pursuing Travis and four years staying with Darryl who didn't want to remarry, she didn't have time to put in six months dating Ryan only to have Travis blow it up.

The strange thing is she didn't even realize she was suspect #1. Two or three people told LE immediately that they needed to look at Jodi. I guess if she did know his friends would accuse her she was counting on her having no paper trail in AZ to throw off suspicion

BBM. That's exactly why the gas cans, no paper trail at any gas station in Arizona, just every other state she drove through. Her initial lie- before the Ninjas- is that she was never in the state, hadn't seen Travis since April.

 

[salberg7]

I don't think she was in total control of their conversations in late May. I think she was OUT of control - she didn't know what he was up to, she knew he was texting other girls, and the amount of texts between them were diminishing greatly. He was texting other women non stop. I think her threats to him, and we don't know what they were, were an effort to remain in control, which she saw slipping away. Those threats could have been just empty threats since they were never really defined. Her lack of control over Travis led to her premeditating his murder. She'd been out of Mesa since early April, he was blowing her off regarding coming to visit, gave credit to another girl friend (not romantically connected) who typed up and edited his introduction to his book while ignoring her, and was moving on with his life. The day she left he threw her two birds (although I never read that, just here) and was so done with her. That's why I am convinced he wasn't aware that she was coming to Mesa June 3. She couldn't risk telling him for fear he would tell one of his roommates. She snuck in while he was chilling on the computer watching funny Youtube videos with Naps, he turned around and there she was. Or, she snuck in in the morning when he was alseep and his roommates were asleep or at work. Then she managed to offer the one thing she knew he couldn't resist, he relented, they finished the "wild thing", he went to take a post coital shower to get ready for his conference call and she put her plan into place because he wanted her gone, & she felt the rejection and humiliation yet again as he didn't want much to do with her after sex... she became enraged and the rest is history.

 

[franquerolane]

I wouldn't presume to tell you what should be of continuing interest to you, and I would expect the same in return.

 

[Hope4More]

She doesn't sound suicidal in the gchat IMO. Travis sounds mad that she's hacking his email and Facebook, like Taylor said IMO the ruining comments reflect his despair about Lisa. At this point in May he'd called Lisa, left a message and days have gone by...he is still waiting on her to reply. He knows that his addiction to Jodi was a huge cause of Lisa breaking up with him and he hates himself for it. Yet he says just hearing Jodi's voice tempts him. He says she knows he will always take her back. Even though she slashed his tires he couldn't stay away. She "manipulated" him into loving her and it's ruined him because he lost Lisa

Psychiatric advice :twocents:

Audio of gchat

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zGueroNxp8c

Ruin=his chance to marry or even be on path to marriage before kicked out of singles ward (best case); being excommunicated as a result of her going to her bishop (worst case).

Lisa= TA ruined his own chance with Lisa because they were too close to actually getting engaged, he freaked, and created a spiritual destiny with Mimi thing to dodge committing to Lisa. He was contacting Mimi and dreaming about her at the very same time Lisa was expecting a proposal. JA made things very much worse, but it wasn't her fault TA and Lisa broke up, and TA knew it. He felt terrible about lying to Lisa, and it bothered him a great deal that she refused to speak to him, but the latter was as much as anything else because their circles of friends and large get together both attended were awkward or had to be avoided. Not TA's style.

Addiction= a misreading of what was going on in the chat and the larger context, as I've said repeatedly, no point rehashing.

Taylor= a friend who could be told many things, but not the truth of how far he'd gone with the , and therefore not of her blackmailing him on the 26. He was entirely on his own, which she knew.

Suicidal= no, she wasn't overtly threatening suicide. Not sure she needed to for TA to go there, though. He did, actually, during the chat. Twice. Once to say- I want a real answer, and the second time to say- we've been over this before.

IMO he absolutely did think she was hinting at it, no doubt because she had done so many times before. It seems pretty clear that he didn't allow himself to be manipulated by it in the chat.

Another great big indication to me, along with the fierceness of his verbal assault on her, that he was DONE with her.

All JMO.

 

[Hope4More]

She doesn't sound suicidal in the gchat IMO. Travis sounds mad that she's hacking his email and Facebook, like Taylor said IMO the ruining comments reflect his despair about Lisa. At this point in May he'd called Lisa, left a message and days have gone by...he is still waiting on her to reply. He knows that his addiction to Jodi was a huge cause of Lisa breaking up with him and he hates himself for it. Yet he says just hearing Jodi's voice tempts him. He says she knows he will always take her back. Even though she slashed his tires he couldn't stay away. She "manipulated" him into loving her and it's ruined him because he lost Lisa

Psychiatric advice :twocents:

Audio of gchat

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zGueroNxp8c

Wrong order....altogether. That starts with what is actually the end of chat, and the sequence is out of order within pages.

Hard to describe, but each page of what is called the transcript (wasn't that) reads from the bottom up, and the bottom to top of a single actual page of the IM's doesn't fit exactly into a single page of transcript. So, the chat as presented on tape and everywhere else is very much , horribly, a large- amount -of- time- to- get- right out of order, especially since the transcript doesn't include the time at all, not for any line of chat, not for the chat itself, nada.

 

[TexMex]

Ruin=his chance to marry or even be on path to marriage before kicked out of singles ward (best case); being excommunicated as a result of her going to her bishop (worst case).

Lisa= TA ruined his own chance with Lisa because they were too close to actually getting engaged, he freaked, and created a spiritual destiny with Mimi thing to dodge committing to Lisa. He was contacting Mimi and dreaming about her at the very same time Lisa was expecting a proposal. JA made things very much worse, but it wasn't her fault TA and Lisa broke up, and TA knew it. He felt terrible about lying to Lisa, and it bothered him a great deal that she refused to speak to him, but the latter was as much as anything else because their circles of friends and large get together both attended were awkward or had to be avoided. Not TA's style.

Addiction= a misreading of what was going on in the chat and the larger context, as I've said repeatedly, no point rehashing.

Taylor= a friend who could be told many things, but not the truth of how far he'd gone with the , and therefore not of her blackmailing him on the 26. He was entirely on his own, which she knew.

Suicidal= no, she wasn't overtly threatening suicide. Not sure she needed to for TA to go there, though. He did, actually, during the chat. Twice. Once to say- I want a real answer, and the second time to say- we've been over this before.

IMO he absolutely did think she was hinting at it, no doubt because she had done so many times before. It seems pretty clear that he didn't allow himself to be manipulated by it in the chat.

Another great big indication to me, along with the fierceness of his verbal assault on her, that he was DONE with her.

All JMO.

Taylor was Travis's best friend.

He told Taylor that Jodi was a nymphomaniac. That he was very attracted to Jodi physically but also wanted to marry a virgin Mormon bride.

Lisa broke up with Travis for cheating on her with Jodi. He dated others but always wanted Lisa. He was distraught about this in late May..finally leaving her a message which she had not returned as of May 26.

He wasn't done though. Just like he said several times in the chat, he was addicted to her sexually. She was in his bed June 4 just like she knew she would be and how he himself predicted.

It's tragic but it was the way this toxic relationship worked for many many months.

 

[Hope4More]

I don't think she was in total control of their conversations in late May. I think she was OUT of control - she didn't know what he was up to, she knew he was texting other girls, and the amount of texts between them were diminishing greatly. He was texting other women non stop. I think her threats to him, and we don't know what they were, were an effort to remain in control, which she saw slipping away. Those threats could have been just empty threats since they were never really defined. Her lack of control over Travis led to her premeditating his murder. She'd been out of Mesa since early April, he was blowing her off regarding coming to visit, gave credit to another girl friend (not romantically connected) who typed up and edited his introduction to his book while ignoring her, and was moving on with his life. The day she left he threw her two birds (although I never read that, just here) and was so done with her. That's why I am convinced he wasn't aware that she was coming to Mesa June 3. She couldn't risk telling him for fear he would tell one of his roommates. She snuck in while he was chilling on the computer watching funny Youtube videos with Naps, he turned around and there she was. Or, she snuck in in the morning when he was alseep and his roommates were asleep or at work. Then she managed to offer the one thing she knew he couldn't resist, he relented, they finished the "wild thing", he went to take a post coital shower to get ready for his conference call and she put her plan into place because he wanted her gone, & she felt the rejection and humiliation yet again as he didn't want much to do with her after sex... she became enraged and the rest is history.

Depends on what you mean by out of control, eh? It's definitely out of control to drive 1000 miles to murder an ex-BF who has done nothing whatsoever to hurt you.

But.....her methodical setting him up over most of May, and her torment of him May 25-26? Couldn't disagree more. IMO (based on DeMarte's explanation of JA's BPD), JA flipped the switch when she decided to murder him, and according to JM, that happened mid-May.

 

[Hope4More]

Taylor was Travis's best friend.

He told Taylor that Jodi was a nymphomaniac. That he was very attracted to Jodi physically but also wanted to marry a virgin Mormon bride.

Lisa broke up with Travis for cheating on her with Jodi. He dated others but always wanted Lisa. He was distraught about this in late May..finally leaving her a message which she had not returned as of May 26.

He wasn't done though. Just like he said several times in the chat, he was addicted to her sexually. She was in his bed June 4 just like she knew she would be and how he himself predicted. It's tragic but it was the way this toxic relationship worked for many many months.

We interpret most of TA's interactions with others very differently; tis no wonder our conclusions about many things are so very different.

I think we've discussed and re-discussed and discussed again our main points of disagreement, so will let it go at that.

 

[TexMex]

Depends on what you mean by out of control, eh? It's definitely out of control to drive 1000 miles to murder an ex-BF who has done nothing whatsoever to hurt you.

But.....her methodical setting him up over most of May, and her torment of him May 25-26? Couldn't disagree more. IMO (based on DeMarte's explanation of JA's BPD), JA flipped the switch when she decided to murder him, and according to JM, that happened mid-May.

What did JM say happened in mid May?

 

[franquerolane]

What did JM say happened in mid May?

She asked Darrel
for his gas cans.

 

[RickshawFan]

Going above and beyond - recreating the pose. Thanks, FinallyRegistered. There is even a crease in the sweat pants. I have no doubt she was wearing socks in that pic. Based on the clear photo produced in JM's book, the evidence and even by her admission. As Tex Mex highlighted - the socks were more evidence of planning, ensuring no shoe prints would be left.

She's actually wearing socks over shoes. You can see the bumps for the eyelets and the laces.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

When I first came to this site it was so informative and there were quite a few missing children who needed to be found even if it was sitting behind the computer and trying to analyze and detect any small clue to help with any investigation to use all skills to find and bring the culpret to justice. So as I sit here reading through all the details of this horrible crime,that everyone has dissected so many times over and over,me included ,but Why? Looking at pictures recreating and blah blah blah,what do you hope to discover? He is dead ,she killed him,no excuses or trying to figure out why she did what, so with that all being said ,I will not fuel the neverending saga of ariass and why she might have done it ,to what purpose does this serve to rehash and theorize,move on ,it is not about her,it is about HIM,and keeping her newsworthy is not the answer,Give it a rest and do something worthwhile.

And yet you're here.


Tex, I can't find your post about the pockets and falling out. Those look like that have good sized packets. They're gaping open,
and you can see the zipper in the back if you zoom in on the inside of the pant legs.


In the letter to the family she told of her terrible injury of a torn toenail in the "fight" with the female ninja. If she had socks on (I do think she does) she probably snagged it on a thread in the sock and that tore it. The socks would also help her have more a "purchase" on the tile floor, instead of barefeet.

 

[kmp3]

She's actually wearing socks over shoes. You can see the bumps for the eyelets and the laces.

Wouldn't Travis question why she was wearing socks over her shoes? It would look really odd, and the point was to NOT give him reason to be suspicious. Though that's just speculation on my part, of course.

Kate

 

[kmp3]

I believe she had the camera on a video mode. Both her hands are free and ready to attack. She wanted to watch the video later ..sick and evil. And pausing the video and capturing images are not complicated nor lengthy process at all. I think she wanted to look at some images more clearly so she made stills. I'm presently unclear what she planned to do with the memory card afterwards.


I also believe Travis' camera time was off by several hours. :worms:

Just curious why you believe she was taking video? There's no evidence to support that, that I know if. Though I do remember something being said during the trial about being unable to recover a deleted video--or something like that. Is that what you're drawing this conclusion from? IMO, it was more likely a happygrownupfuntime video (if there was a video taken at all that day). But, of course, we have nothing to prove either scenario.

Why do you think the time was off by several hours? Just wondering if I missed something about the time stamps?

Kate

 

[salberg7]

Even after the May 25-26 chat, Travis chose to diminish his contact with her instead of feed into whatever mind game she was playing at that point. There were minimal texts between them after that. He continued to be himself. I think he figured enough was enough and he was going to try to ignore her in the hopes of her just fading away.
The killer's obsession continued to boil, which is why I said she was out of control. Then finally she couldn't take it anymore because he was ignoring her, and her little ploy in May's chat wasn't working the way she thought it would. The killer thrived on manipulating Travis and Travis was done with her, no matter what they fought about. Travis had the control and she couldn't have that. That flipped the over the top switch in the killer and she lost total control and murdered him, as if she couldn't have him, no one would.
Of course all of our discussions are speculative anyway, and I welcome and respect a healthy debate. It's all good.

 

[micki68]

I don't think Travis would have noticed her feet/shoes, socks etc. Why would he? Ever see The Shawshank Redemption? To quote . "I mean, seriously, how often do you really look at a mans shoes?"

 

[TexMex]

She asked Darrel
for his gas cans.

I think when she realized he wasn't going to make efforts to come see her sing , plus his communication with other females and his upcoming Cancun trip...she unraveled