Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #5

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Hiding in his closet was one of her specialties. She'd done so repeatedly before that day.

The screen on his office window removed? Breaking in or going out that way to avoid detection?

I'm thinking it's possible TA had locked all his doors- including the door from garage into the house, and in that scenario it makes sense she could have snuck in when he was out bike riding.

And have seen the chairs up on the couch when she entered, exactly as she described seeing them to Flores.


At that point in his life, I think he took far more precautions to protect himself and others from her evil than he ever did before. Little did he realize that at that point she was unstoppable as she was on a mission to end his life. I don't think he knew she was coming and I damned sure don't believe he greeted her allowing her into his home. Gotta' run for now. :seeya:
 
I very much agree with you, all the way up to May 22. She exploited that vulnerability of his to the max, but on and afterwards, IMO, he absolutely did separate himself from her, thanks in part to the several weeks worth of hard core reality testing about her he had done with friends in May, and more importantly, because he had come clean to himself about how much damage the had inflicted upon him, including driving Lisa away.

And BTW, I agree with Sky and Chris that JA may well have murdered Lisa had TA not broken up with her. Ever since JA's journals were released I've been convinced the "dark" thoughts and scenarios she was alluding to in late fall/winter of 2007 were fantasies of just that.

And I've wondered if some part of TA's breaking it off with Lisa was based on his own fear, however deep down, that JA was capable of harming Lisa, not just her tires.

I agree she was having dark thoughts and perhaps fantasies about harming others began then. I think the escalation from stalking, anonymous emails and manipulation to taking a knife and slashing multiple tires multiple times was a turning point...jmo but I think using the knife gave her some sort of weird relief or power...? I'm not sure yet but the knife made her feel better...released the pressure in her sick brain. That's why a knife on June 4

Idk

So I agree with you. But not about him stopping on May 22.

May 26
"I tried to stay away this time..."
But he couldn't. Partly because of his past. Partly because he'd been sucked into the sick cycle of a sociopath. Partly because of the sex.

This is a 30 year old guy, speaking his truth. He's in anguish, frustrated, confused. Unable to sort out how this woman knows how to do all these things that have turned his life upside down yet she knows how to keep him just within her reach. Again partly his abusive lonely past, able to be used by her to manipulate him. Again partly sex

And you made sure I heard your voice
U knew that would be enough
And I keep taking you back
And you know it
And you know I will take you back
You always know
You know I'll get pissed but I'll take you back
 
I'm beginning to think she entered his house way later on June 4 than I first thought. Sounds possible he may have woken up, had oatmeal, cleaned the kitchen, went for a bike ride, and started putting up chairs to prep for cleaning the downstairs tiles, all before he knew she was there.

Agreed, I do think he did several things that morning before he saw her - I do wonder, he put the bike in the garage without putting it on a rack (if that's how he kept it) or neatly wherever he usually had it, which seems a bit out of the ordinary for him, and we've supposed that she had been in his car reading his journal while waiting for roommate(s) to leave - when he put the bike in the garage maybe he saw her in his car? Could explain the bike just being left lying on the floor. I think everything about that morning is much different than trial timeline dictates (which is pretty much her story, and we all know just how truthful she is).
 
I agree she was having dark thoughts and perhaps fantasies about harming others began then. I think the escalation from stalking, anonymous emails and manipulation to taking a knife and slashing multiple tires multiple times was a turning point...jmo but I think using the knife gave her some sort of weird relief or power...? I'm not sure yet but the knife made her feel better...released the pressure in her sick brain

Idk

So I agree with you. But not about him stopping on May 22.

"I tried to stay away this time..."
But he couldn't. Partly because of his past. Partly because he'd been sucked into the sick cycle of a sociopath. Partly because of the sex.

This is a 30 year old guy, speaking his truth. He's in anguish, frustrated, confused. Unable to sort out how this woman knows how to do all these things that have turned his life upside down yet she knows how to keep him just within her reach. Again partly his abusive lonely past, able to be used by her to manipulate him. Again partly sex

And you made sure I heard your voice
U knew that would be enough
And I keep taking you back
And you know it
And you know I will take you back
You always know
You know I'll get pissed but I'll take you back


We disagree, then, on the context of those words in the chat. IMO he expressed that anguish at great length earlier in the chat, asking her repeatedly- with clear eyes and mind- why ME? What was your objective? What you did you did out of hate, not love. I don't ask for or want your apologies because I know they are lies. Again, to the very end of the chat what he is demanding she say is that she is NOT sorry. That is explicitly NOT buying into the cycle he describes with those words you quote.

I agree he doesn't understand WHY she hates him and keeps trying to destroy him. That's why he kept asking why. But he gave up. YOU WIN.
 
We disagree, then, on the context of those words in the chat. IMO he expressed that anguish at great length earlier in the chat, asking her repeatedly- with clear eyes and mind- why ME? What was your objective? What you did you did out of hate, not love. I don't ask for or want your apologies because I know they are lies. Again, to the very end of the chat what he is demanding she say is that she is NOT sorry. That is explicitly NOT buying into the cycle he describes with those words you quote.

I agree he doesn't understand WHY she hates him and keeps trying to destroy him. That's why he kept asking why. But he gave up. YOU WIN.

He's mad. She keeps invading his privacy. She lies. He knows she does it. Knows she lies. How can someone who cares about him keep doing this? She must hate him. He's right she's not sorry.

He still has a clear mind when he says

And you know I will take you back
You always know
You know I'll get pissed but I'll take you back

And he did. She knew.
 
He's mad. She keeps invading his privacy. She lies. He knows she does it. Knows she lies. How can someone who cares about him keep doing this? She must hate him. He's right she's not sorry.

He still has a clear mind when he says

And you know I will take you back
You always know
You know I'll get pissed but I'll take you back

And he did. She knew.


He didn't. And she knew he hadn't and wouldn't. That's why she resolved, definitively, to kill him, and why she had to plant so much evidence that he had.

I think we're perfectly clear now on where and why we disagree? :D
 
He didn't. And she knew he hadn't and wouldn't. That's why she resolved, definitively, to kill him, and why she had to plant so much evidence that he had.

I think we're perfectly clear now on where and why we disagree? :D

She absolutely knew. He didn't even have to tell her about his addiction to her. She knew in a few days they'd talk. He'd hear her voice and that's all she'd need. She knew 1000% percent that if she showed up-expected or not-she could talk her way into his bed and get the opportunity to kill him.

They had contact after May 22. They had contact after May 26. They had contact June 4.
 
Agreed, I do think he did several things that morning before he saw her - I do wonder, he put the bike in the garage without putting it on a rack (if that's how he kept it) or neatly wherever he usually had it, which seems a bit out of the ordinary for him, and we've supposed that she had been in his car reading his journal while waiting for roommate(s) to leave - when he put the bike in the garage maybe he saw her in his car? Could explain the bike just being left lying on the floor. I think everything about that morning is much different than trial timeline dictates (which is pretty much her story, and we all know just how truthful she is).


Including the whole trying to view sentimental photos of their travels on CDs, IMO.


There's no reason to believe he was feeling sentimental about trips that meant everything to her and little to him as -they related to her,anyway.

More problematic is her conflicting lies about the computer. It was fine and virus-free when he happily greeted her at 4:30AM and sHe sat down to watch stupid videos with him, but lo, in the afternoon (what time she surely couldn't say), suddenly his computer is so infected they can't view the CD's. Even though she has her own computer with her, yet. And even though Spybot has successfully run itself or been manually started at 1:44pm, and even though his computer was definitely manually accessed around 4:30PM.

Actually, I love the possibility she was hoisted by her petard with that lie too, given JM's counter: well, thanks for that--saying you brought along CD's to view with Travis is just another way to spell P-R-E-M-E-D-I-T-A-T-I-O-N.
 
She absolutely knew. He didn't even have to tell her about his addiction to her. She knew in a few days they'd talk. He'd hear her voice and that's all she'd need. She knew 1000% percent that if she showed up-expected or not-she could talk her way into his bed and get the opportunity to kill him.

They had contact after May 22. They had contact after May 26. They had contact June 4.

TexMex, I'm putting this on the same shelf as the BMW. I don't see the point in going over and over the same point of disagreement. We disagree. I think I understand why you think what you think, and I think I've expressed my own POV clearly, and backed it up. We don't have to agree.
 
TA's bicycle found on the floor of the garage, as if he had just returned from his biking exercise (timeline June 4), nothing out of place, not so much a box of oatmeal on the counter, everything completely clean in the kitchen (timeline June 4, credibility).

TA's credit card found out of his wallet, on his desk (the office door was closed); one of his business cards on the closet floor (she went through his wallet); enough of a mess on the floor of T's closet that friends stepped over and around ( activity)

TA told Mimi directly that the had/was stalking him (add her to the list in a tightly knit community in which gossip was common)- Regan, Michelle, Taylor, Chris and Sky)

New information. Ain't it grand. Thank you, BK.

I'm not sure what to make of Dallin's interview regarding the closet. He was in shock...says he stepped over something but couldn't remember what.
Martinez was at the crime scene later and walked through the closet to get to the shower. Didn't say he had to step over anything. He reports the closet very "organized and orderly".

The pictures taken that day also reveal no clutter

image.jpeg
 
People here are discussing the word addiction because they disagree with your opinion on the G-Chat. In that chat, Travis repeatedly used the word addiction.

From G-Chat:

“Travis - Because I am addicted

Travis - You are ruining my life but I’m addicted

Travis - I am in partial addiction to you

Travis - I’ m addicted to it

Travis - Yet I am addicted to it

Travis - I’m addicted”
There's no evidence at all that there was an addiction. That's the problem with what you keep arguing. There is only evidence that the word was used.

As several posters have pointed out, the word "addiction" can be applied to many behaviors that are not at all about addiction. For example, most humans have a sex drive. This is not an addiction: it's a fact of human nature. TA clearly had a sex drive.
 
True, but then a video was never recovered, just a few stills with gaps between some of them, making it appear that JA deliberately shot each and every pic, even though some are spaced at pretty even intervals. That makes me wonder if only the stills she captured from playing back a video were all that was left. I find it very difficult to believe that she could not capture stills while pausing the video in playback mode ....

https://docs.sony.com/release//DSC-H7_H9_Handbook.pdf#I5.1.1023602

"2 Select an image with b/B on the control button.

Movie:
Press z to playback a movie. (Press z again to stop playback.)
Press B to fast forward, b to rewind. (Press z to return to normal playback.)
Press V to display the volume control screen, then press b/B to adjust the volume.
• Movies with the image size [320] are displayed a size smaller.
• By turning the wheel dial, you can also easily view the next/previous image.
-/+ To view an enlarged image (playback zoom)
Press + while displaying a still image.
To undo the zoom, press - .
Adjust the position: v/V/b/B
Cancel playback zoom: z
•To store enlarged images: [Trimming] (page 66)"

https://docs.sony.com/release//DSC-H7_H9_Handbook.pdf#I5.1.1023602

The reply to my question

Hi Sam,

Thank you for contacting Sony Cyber-shot and Handycam Email Response Team.

I understand that you want to know if you can capture a photo on a video that you record. I would be happy to assist and provide you the information you need.

Unfortunately, the Cyber Shot DSC-H9 camera doesn't have the feature or capability of taking a photo while recording a video or taking a snapshot on playback of the video.

I hope I was able to help you with your concern for today.

Thank you for choosing Sony.
Best Regards,
Gladys
C82J
The Sony Cyber-shot and Handycam Email Response Team
 
I'm beginning to think she entered his house way later on June 4 than I first thought. Sounds possible he may have woken up, had oatmeal, cleaned the kitchen, went for a bike ride, and started putting up chairs to prep for cleaning the downstairs tiles, all before he knew she was there.

She might have hung out in his car the whole time. Then she would have been able to hear the roommates leaving.

Do we even have nay guesses where Jodi put her car?
 
There's no evidence at all that there was an addiction. That's the problem with what you keep arguing. There is only evidence that the word was used.

As several posters have pointed out, the word "addiction" can be applied to many behaviors that are not at all about addiction. For example, most humans have a sex drive. This is not an addiction: it's a fact of human nature. TA clearly had a sex drive.

Travis was saying he had an addiction, however he defined it. Like he said,

I tried to stay away this time...
you just kill me
Every time
And I keep taking you back
I have come to terms with it

Jmo but he's saying even when he really tries to stay away, even though she's ruining/killing him, he always takes her back (not as a girlfriend but keeps in touch and have sexual contact with). She was in his head

He was glad when she left Mesa. Flipped her off. But they keep in touch. They text. Have phone sex.
Even after this fight, they text. May 30 he calls but she's at work. Text indicates they may talk later.
June 2 she calls. He calls her twice, talking for 59 minutes. She gets in her car 90 minutes later and heads to Redding to the Budget rental.
 
She heads to Redding to rent a car ...

so she can sneak into Arizona and kill him...

why is she so angry? not because he said...come on ahead to my house...

more like..don't ever come to my house again

jmo
 
To contineously talk about how Travis was an addict of some sort frankly disgusts me. I know some will respond by posting some nudes of him and a video of his sister saying JA was his choice of drug, then say -see? he was addicted!- , but I wish people will remember he is the victim in this case and his 'addiction' had nothing to do with his death. So why keep concentrating on Travis' weaknesses only? For days now. I have heard enough trash talking by Nurmi, Wilmott, ALV, & Fonseca on how TA and JA's relationship was toxic and that TA couldn't let JA go in peace.

In my mind their relationship was toxic because of JA and Travis just didn't know how to deal with it effectively. He did try though to end the cycle towards the end of his life. I give him a lot of credit for trying his best. No, I don't believe he still was addicted to the toxic relationship or to JA on June 4th, welcomed JA when she showed up and had a sex party.

Thanks for saying this. I'm getting fed up with this tactic, too. I'm especially fed up with posters claiming that since TA used the addict word, he must be an addict. And then magically turning it into a major character flaw. Ummm....NO. Leaps of logic everywhere.

And none of it gave Jodi an excuse to slaughter anyone, manipulate anyone, or stalk anyone.

Thanks again, pocketaccent. I'm about to bail from this forum because the tone of the comments has become very strident in the last couple of weeks or so.
 
Agreed, I do think he did several things that morning before he saw her - I do wonder, he put the bike in the garage without putting it on a rack (if that's how he kept it) or neatly wherever he usually had it, which seems a bit out of the ordinary for him, and we've supposed that she had been in his car reading his journal while waiting for roommate(s) to leave - when he put the bike in the garage maybe he saw her in his car? Could explain the bike just being left lying on the floor. I think everything about that morning is much different than trial timeline dictates (which is pretty much her story, and we all know just how truthful she is).

Although speculative, that sounds so right, Geevee. He also could have told her to leave, and then she came back later when is was in the shower (to wash off bike sweat).
 
She heads to Redding to rent a car ...

so she can sneak into Arizona and kill him...

why is she so angry? not because he said...come on ahead to my house...

more like..don't ever come to my house again

jmo

She had already made arrangements to go. Reserved the car, stolen a gun, talked to Darryl about the gas cans. IMO the contact after May 26 was her manipulating him again..apologizing, maybe finding out his schedule for the next few days.
You don't initiate a call to someone multiple times, eventually speaking for an hour at 3am to say I still hate you, don't come to my house to a woman a 1,000 miles away . IMO

I doubt he knew she was coming. I think it was a surprise. But the contact/manipulation was enough that when she did show up he didn't throw her out. Didn't call the cops. She did like she'd done for many months, turned up the sex knowing -like he said in the call, I'm addicted, I'll get pissed but I always take you back
 
But don't you think it's possible the short calls from her were voicemails...and he called her back to tear a strip off her, just as he did May 26?
 
I apologize for length of this post, hope some of you stick with it, feel free to make your own call.

Thank you, I have been saying this for a while.. I'm sorry, but Cruella could not have disguised her psychosis when she killed him, Travis knew from the moment she barged in there. As much as he cajoled her, he wasn't totally cognitively unaware. He was mislead and naive. Which is how she suckered him in. He didn't value her presence there, for the sake of sex or anything else. He mentioned a date with some 19 year old from his church - that he was looking forward to - post Lisa convo. I think his mind started to process the shock of seeing her there as soon as she arrived though. Those ‘murder photo momentos’ say much (and perhaps she meant to keep them or transfer them). She can't 'erradicate' her movements when there is that much mental or nervous/excited energy pumping through her veins. I think it's quite obvious her body language was highly predatory and erratic that day - more than usual - full psychosis. There is just so much neurological activity that you can control when your mind is that disturbed. She is not a master of disguise. She is a psychopath; they DO feel a rush, to get to that expected moment. And she premeditated for quite some time.

Having a rape victim’s dating history brought up is one of those inappropriate manifestations during ‘an accusation.’ Anything can be brought up to insinuate dishonesty or paint them the '*advertiser censored*' - for simply having a dating history (perhaps even maintaining some form of agreeable contact between both parties). I understand we don't have much of a basis for how to perceive rape victims (until very recently – rape culture on campus being the best example from young women), let alone male rape survivors. I mean, it’s not like anyone’s ever encouraged to discuss ‘their rape’ at these institutions you know. The most publicized case we’ve ever had was to the Catholic church and the male victims who spoke out about it years later.

Anywa, many of the survivors will tell you, the only reason they didn’t end up dead in a ditch or with bruises is because they felt their body had to ‘comply’ - to avoid the blatant/apparent violence of their rapist(s).
75% of all rapes are either date or ‘acquaintance-rape.’ These people KNOW what’s going on. Silence or going along with it buys them time, their body possibly staying in a piece, etc. etc. There is a look in someone's eye, their behavior. Your survival instincts DO kick in with adrenaline. They get what they want, their rage will subside, and sure, then they’ll leave you alone. THAT is NOT always true. That’s just how the mind responds with the trauma.

I don't know why Travis didn't call the police as soon as he saw her. Perhaps he was hoping 'she would go away.' Or perhaps he wasn't 100% sure she wouldn't just sneak up on him one day and kill him anyway, or someone he loved. His house wasn't secure; he had the blasted doggy door, etc.

I don't care if the guy enjoyed sex. Or hated himself for having sex, with her or anyone else. I see a guy in those photos that realizes he has to go along to avoid something wicked. I think Travis knew, he wasn’t the type of person to get caught up in a shouting match. He took the time to emotionally absorb his environment, he just never counteracted with that awareness. I think he figured her out. He’s the type of ‘victim,’ that was expecting for her to leave him alone after her ‘excitement’ abated. Either way, I see ‘duress’ in those photos.

Side note:
Psychologically, I don't think male rape is all that different from female rape at all.. Women feel just as discomforted discussing this topic and emotionally scar/suppress just as the men do (again, rape culture opened up the conversation a bit more recently). But you will notice one thing, that still has changed very little nationwide for them. There is a lot of self-defeat that comes with this territory. This has nothing to do with gender at all. I’ve never met a young women feel anything less than frightened and/or demoralized for being able to confide in me that someone violated her mind. Children unfortunately have an adverse emotional response as well. There is some lifetime PTSD, regardless of whether or not it was systemic, I think we know the research out there for this says as much. A rape victim's ability to move forward simply depends on the individual. Rape is HIGHLY under-reported by women anyhow, we do NOT have proper statistics or stories to judge from. Police precincts will also underreport. Either way women will bear the weight and say all the same, they feel shame (one of the components involved is often self-guilt - especially in certain cultures).

Great post, well thought through. It corrects the extremely sexist notion I've seen upthread that TA couldn't have been raped by Jodi 'cos guys don't get raped by women. TA evidently behaved much as one would expect a victim of domestic violence and/or PTSD and/or a life-threatening situation would behave.

On a sort-of related topic....Some posters seem not to be aware that TA was in the habit of NOT responding to JA's texts. This had been going on for a long time.
 
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