What is even more telling, imo, is that I don't recall a single exchange or journal entry where condoms were ever mentioned. You would think that one of them would have made some reference to them... the need for them for cleanliness purposes(anal) let alone what I would think would be a definite no-no for anyone trying to live a religiously correct life, an unmarried pregnancy. Instead all we hear about is grinding(a form of masturbation) and how JA introduced TA to KY, something that may ease forms of penetration in those who are having anal sex or natural lubrication problems(not something I would think is common in two young people "hot" for each other), but is more commonly used to reduce friction burns from masturbation. Since JA had no qualms talking about using Tootsie Rolls and Pop Rocks, why no talk about what kind of condoms they preferred... Ribbed, Studded, Thin, Flavoured, Lubricated, Ticklers, etc.?
Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #6
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What is even more telling, imo, is that I don't recall a single exchange or journal entry where condoms were ever mentioned. You would think that one of them would have made some reference to them... the need for them for cleanliness purposes(anal) let alone what I would think would be a definite no-no for anyone trying to live a religiously correct life, an unmarried pregnancy. Instead all we hear about is grinding(a form of masturbation) and how JA introduced TA to KY, something that may ease forms of penetration in those who are having anal sex or natural lubrication problems(not something I would think is common in two young people "hot" for each other), but is more commonly used to reduce friction burns from masturbation. Since JA had no qualms talking about using Tootsie Rolls and Pop Rocks, why no talk about what kind of condoms they preferred... Ribbed, Studded, Thin, Flavoured, Lubricated, Ticklers, etc.?
krkrjx
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Given some of her almost never-ending answers to simple questions in court, going on and on with minutiae that was for the most part irrelevant, I am always amused when someone points out an example of the killer's lack of attention to detail.
TexMex
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Yes.
The only mention of marriage was her joking when she won $25 that Travis could share in her "spoils" once they're married or engaged. She later says she was only trying to make her laugh.
Later in Feb he gets distracted from the relationship due to being broke, family problems etc and they break up. All the while he's set to leave for the OKC convention with Jodi in a matter of days,,..
geevee
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That's where I thought his mention of KY in the recorded phone convo(s) came from, when he was saying how he'd rarely masturbated before she came into his life and since was doing so frequently, and saying she turned him onto the KY - but the last time I listened to the sex tape I don't recall hearing that part (JM played it in open court, maybe it was one of the several taken from the phone but not clipped into the one on YT?)
You make a good point though, them being found in the rental car was the first mention I'd ever seen of rubbers, and yes, for the reasons you stated, I just don't see Travis having unprotected sex. And with her myriad detailiness in fleshing out lies, she enthralled us all with the fictitious rope story, what happened to evidence of sex, why no long boring story of protecting themselves with their choice of covers and remnant disposal? Why never any mention anywhere of condoms? Travis wasn't sexual rebel enough to risk unmarried pregnancy or an STI (both proof of unmarried sex), so where oh where did the rubber wrappers go?
RickshawFan
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Ooooooo, someone else is on my bandwidth, but this is stated way better than I could ever do it justice. IMO, JA was not at all creative or up-to-date in the sex department. KY? How old-school is that? Even my doctor has that on the counter in the examining room.
What's the evidence, anyway, that JA and TA had anal sex except in that fantasy talk on the phone? And in that June 4 photo of JA's privates?
It would be so delicious if JM used her lies about anal sex against her! We had all those DT witnesses having to be cross-examined about it! Remember ALV and how "old-fashioned" she is?
Tex, I'm fixing to pull gender on ya. Women don't make jokes about getting engaged to fellers who have been talking to them about marriage. IMO.
Have heard various explanations given why Travis broke it off with her, but the only one that came from Travis was in the texts. People being complex, I doubt he had just one reason, and I also doubt that he was completely honest with himself about why he was breaking it off. Especially after reading the texts and getting some little idea what all was happening in February, IMO part of the reason was he was afraid for Lisa, her tires having just been slashed, and the still very much in town and becoming more unhinged by the day.
Personally, I don't doubt they had every which kind of sex, but I agree with Geevee that the bubble and Tootsie pop night of full out sex probably was a one off thing. I also think she greatly hugely and grossly exaggerated the frequency of their encounters.
TexMex
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I think towards the end they said to hell with it and started having full on sex. In the tape Travis says "Is it wrong I'm glad we started f-ing?" She replies "if that's wrong then I don't want to be right"
Ultimately they BOTH knew the oral and other activities they'd been doing were just as wrong as sexual intercourse so why pretend? They'd do whatever they pleased and repent later.
As for birth control...perhaps Jodi took pills or used other methods. There's also lots of talk about him pulling out (excuse me please). I think that's likely what he did, cause in the back of his mind even if she was on birth control he didn't want her trapping him with "mistakenly" skipping a few doses.
krkrjx
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Had they been a typical couple in a typical relationship, that would be a likely evolution of the relationship. But they did things their way and for me it does not fit with what we know.
The mention of John Dixon in the Hughes'-Travis emails sent me on the mini-mission of trying to figure out....is Dixon real or all a lie?
My guess- a lie, doesn't exist. I think she invented John in December 2006 or January 2007 to make Travis jealous and afraid of "losing" her. Her story of John asking her to leave the Mormon Church to have a relationship with her reeks of trademark manipulation and arrogant grandiosity. Like some guy she'd gone out with one or two times would ask her to renounce her "faith" for him. It's just silly, especially since she told Abe around the same time that she was just dabbling in Mormonism. Abe who she lied was the intended recipient of that "accidental" email she sent Travis in Jan 2007, a few weeks before she pulled the Hughes manuever.
She made liberal use of the John lie later on, always for the same purpose-- to anger Travis. I've wondered why her reliance on John and Abe. She supposedly did date other Mormon men, and I'm sure she knew only Mormon men would make Travis jealous, if he cared at all. The Hughes' emails answer that, IMO. She knew she in fact couldn't make Travis jealous over dating, but she could upset/anger him about her supposedly dating non-Mormons, especially if she threw in extra lies about them, like Dixon being hostile to the Church.
I'd forgotten that the said on the stand the pages she'd torn out from her journal were in part about Dixon, and that she'd tried to get in that the fight that day over the backpack came after Travis took her stuff out of the backpack, saw her journal, and read about her spending time with Dixon.
Every story she told about Dixon was a crock, the most ridiculous being that one about Dixon's art gallery owning friend in San Diego who wanted to hang her one dimensional, lifeless tracings in his gallery, right next to a Monet.
Perhaps not coincidentally, there IS an art gallery in the San Diego area owned by a John Dixon, (now deceased), an Australian cartoonist, LOL.
My guess- a lie, doesn't exist. I think she invented John in December 2006 or January 2007 to make Travis jealous and afraid of "losing" her. Her story of John asking her to leave the Mormon Church to have a relationship with her reeks of trademark manipulation and arrogant grandiosity. Like some guy she'd gone out with one or two times would ask her to renounce her "faith" for him. It's just silly, especially since she told Abe around the same time that she was just dabbling in Mormonism. Abe who she lied was the intended recipient of that "accidental" email she sent Travis in Jan 2007, a few weeks before she pulled the Hughes manuever.
She made liberal use of the John lie later on, always for the same purpose-- to anger Travis. I've wondered why her reliance on John and Abe. She supposedly did date other Mormon men, and I'm sure she knew only Mormon men would make Travis jealous, if he cared at all. The Hughes' emails answer that, IMO. She knew she in fact couldn't make Travis jealous over dating, but she could upset/anger him about her supposedly dating non-Mormons, especially if she threw in extra lies about them, like Dixon being hostile to the Church.
I'd forgotten that the said on the stand the pages she'd torn out from her journal were in part about Dixon, and that she'd tried to get in that the fight that day over the backpack came after Travis took her stuff out of the backpack, saw her journal, and read about her spending time with Dixon.
Every story she told about Dixon was a crock, the most ridiculous being that one about Dixon's art gallery owning friend in San Diego who wanted to hang her one dimensional, lifeless tracings in his gallery, right next to a Monet.
Perhaps not coincidentally, there IS an art gallery in the San Diego area owned by a John Dixon, (now deceased), an Australian cartoonist, LOL.
I actually do believe it's likely she was on the pill, given the many clues she might well have been hooking for dollars, or just living up to that accusation of *advertiser censored*.
krkrjx
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Oh sure, she may have been. And they may have had every kind of sex imaginable. But I think TA being inexperienced at the onset got into some of things that he convinced himself might be *acceptable* and JA threw at him what he wanted. That's rule number 1 in the how to sexually manipulate manual. And I think he grew to enjoy some sexual positions more than others, fueled by his need to try to stay within the *acceptable* range. So to me, their relationship did not evolve into anything other than the kinky action he thought was OK and she delivered to keep him on the hook.
Otherwise, I think she would have attempted getting pregnant because she knew that would keep him on the hook for a long time to come.
TexMex
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IMO Travis wasn't some inexperienced youth being sexually taken advantage of. He and Deanna had sex for quite some time. Travis was not an inexperienced virgin. He was a 30 year old man. Being a 30 year old man, he no doubt was ensnared by Jodi who volunteered to fulfill any sexual fantasy he could dream up. That kind of temptation is very hard to resist.
krkrjx
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I never said he was a virgin! only that he had not been around sexually with various women to experience much of what is possible sexually. I think he did not get that until JA, he found he liked it, and she then continued to use it.
It's an opinion that for me, fits with what I know about them.
TexMex
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Yes. He liked what he got for sure. But IMO he never told her everything but regular sex was ok. She invented that. Travis knew well that any sexual contact or even appearance of (staying in the same hotel room) was against the Law of Chastity. So I suspect they had every form of sex and she just highlighted the kinky stuff to try and play victim for the jury and to hurt his family.
JMO
IIRC, very not true about Deanna and Travis. I do agree that what the offered Travis was understandably impossible for him to resist. Fact is, if Travis hadn't been a Mormon, nothing whatsoever would have been the slightest bit remarkable about a 30 year old man wanting or having sex.
She chose Mormons to prey on for a reason. Travis thought she was indulging his fantasies with their sex. He had no clue until the end she was using sex as a weapon against him, to cripple him with self doubt and guilt, and to make him feel unworthy.
IIRC, it wasn't full out sex. Truth is, though, and please to excuse this rudeness, what the hell business is it of anyone but Deanna what intimacy she and Travis shared? I've always hated this topic of discussion, because IMO it's a win for the every time folks discuss Travis and sex.
TexMex
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The Mormon religion is like every other religion regarding premarital sex. It's not allowed. I'm Baptist and its against the rules. Always has been always will be. Now, the revoking Temple privilege is different though.
The reason she targeted Mormons IMO is their stressing early marriage and starting families ASAP..not the sexual fantasy stuff. She wanted marriage, pronto. She may have seen Travis's Achilles Heel was sex so she...being a proper borderline...used it against him. She tried very hard to convince him that no other Mormon girl would be able to fulfill his sexual desires so he might as well just marry her. IMO
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