Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #7

[Steve44]

Did anyone harbor the illusion she would take responsibility for anything, let alone TA's murder? She was attempting to claim self-defense, afterall. I think there were collective eye rolls from the first words of opening statements by the defense.

I think it was an open question in the beginning, at least as to the extent of her denial. I think most people at least expected her to give something. As it was, she stood behind the discredited defense claim to the very end, up to and including at sentencing. I think most people found that somewhat surprising - or shocking, and yet consistent. In fact the only thing about her that was consistent.

 

[Madeleine74]

Maybe I'm just a bit too cynical but when I saw her range of stories that went from

1. Not me, I wasn't there, I swear, to
2. I was there, but it was 2 ninjas who did it, to
3. Ok I was there and I did do it, but my life was in danger and I had to kill Travis first


I knew she would never ever admit to anything in that trial. Self-defense is an affirmative defense, meaning the defendant has to 'prove' the allegations, so testifying was the only way to do that. Of course as we well know, it wasn't self-defense, it was premeditated and pre-planned murder, which Juan masterfully proved overAndover. And Arias already proved herself to be a pathological liar long before the trial ever started. If you've never dealt with a pathological liar before (unfortunately I have), they can be confronted with every bit of evidence of their lie and they will still continue to lie and lie and lie and then make up more lies. Sometimes the lies are not even for any good reason, they just do it anyway. The one thing they won't do is back down or confess.

 

[TexMex]

Maybe I'm just a bit too cynical but when I saw her range of stories that went from

1. Not me, I wasn't there, I swear, to
2. I was there, but it was 2 ninjas who did it, to
3. Ok I was there and I did do it, but my life was in danger and I had to kill Travis first


I knew she would never ever admit to anything in that trial. Self-defense is an affirmative defense, meaning the defendant has to 'prove' the allegations, so testifying was the only way to do that. Of course as we well know, it wasn't self-defense, it was premeditated and pre-planned murder, which Juan masterfully proved overAndover. And Arias already proved herself to be a pathological liar long before the trial ever started. If you've never dealt with a pathological liar before (unfortunately I have), they can be confronted with every bit of evidence of their lie and they will still continue to lie and lie and lie and then make up more lies. Sometimes the lies are not even for any good reason, they just do it anyway. The one thing they won't do is back down or confess.

Very true. The lies just keep coming.
Robert Durst also claimed self defense and testified. Very interesting. He had much better lawyers and was acquitted

 

[Madeleine74]

Very true. The lies just keep coming.
Robert Durst also claimed self defense and testified. Very interesting. He had much better lawyers and was acquitted

Yes, but he's in jail and will be convicted (I predict) of his friend's death. Durst is a serial killer, he's actually much more dangerous than Arias.

 

[kmp3]

Exactly. It was not her stories that were interesting (ah the international romance of young Jodi and her Costa Rican Victor), it was the absolute pathology of the web she spun. She literally made up Travis having a gun in the closet on the witness stand, on the fly.

And she lies so confidently--even in the face of indisputable evidence. That's the freaky part. Blood on the wall? No prob. I was at the house all the time. My DNA is all over the place. Time stamped pics? Oh, clearly Travis used one of my old memory cards. Twenty seven stab wounds, a gunshot wound and a slit throat? Uh...ninjas! :facepalm:

 

[TexMex]

Yes, but he's in jail and will be convicted (I predict) of his friend's death. Durst is a serial killer, he's actually much more dangerous than Arias.

Now I'm the cynical one...I doubt he's convicted

 

[Madeleine74]

Now I'm the cynical one...I doubt he's convicted

We shall see! They have him confessing to murder in "The Jinx" and they have him admitting the handwriting on the envelope and note sent to police to tell them about the body at his friend (Susan)'s house matches his handwriting exactly, right down to the same misspelling he made in a prior writing exemplar, a sample no one else could have gotten ahold of.

 

[TexMex]

I liked the Jinx but I don't think it was a confession to murder. Jmo but any high priced lawyer can poke holes in handwriting evidence.

 

[Steve44]

Maybe I'm just a bit too cynical but when I saw her range of stories that went from

1. Not me, I wasn't there, I swear, to
2. I was there, but it was 2 ninjas who did it, to
3. Ok I was there and I did do it, but my life was in danger and I had to kill Travis first


I knew she would never ever admit to anything in that trial. Self-defense is an affirmative defense, meaning the defendant has to 'prove' the allegations, so testifying was the only way to do that. Of course as we well know, it wasn't self-defense, it was premeditated and pre-planned murder, which Juan masterfully proved overAndover. And Arias already proved herself to be a pathological liar long before the trial ever started. If you've never dealt with a pathological liar before (unfortunately I have), they can be confronted with every bit of evidence of their lie and they will still continue to lie and lie and lie and then make up more lies. Sometimes the lies are not even for any good reason, they just do it anyway. The one thing they won't do is back down or confess.

I think everyone knew she would give self-defense her best shot, as obvious a lie as it was, but after the guilty verdict, and the specially cruel verdict, after it was clear no one, particularly the jury, believed her, to then not even miss a beat and to allocute as a domestic violence victim, to produce survivor T-shirts, for sale! to give so little reality to others' point of view and to maintain her own with such total disregard, to the people who had her life in their hands, I think couldn't help but surprise people not familiar with psychopathy.

Even at sentencing when there was the last thin chance to someday be free, she blew past it without even blinking, and just saw it as an opportunity to tell the same old story, to insist that her point of view was the only one that mattered.

 

[Madeleine74]

She was still facing a death sentence, so of course she was going to continue her ruse the whole way. It worked; she didn't get sentenced to death, although LWOP is maybe only marginally better.

 

[Steve44]

She was still facing a death sentence, so of course she was going to continue her ruse the whole way. It worked; she didn't get sentenced to death, although LWOP is maybe only marginally better.

But at sentencing death was off the table. It was only LWOP or 25 years with the possibility of release. If she was all about manipulation, here was her chance for an Oscar performance, but changing her point of view, accepting the consensus, was still meaningless to her, even though it could mean the difference between dying in prison and possibly dying a free woman.

 

[Madeleine74]

There was, IMO, never a chance, not a single chance in hell of her getting anything but LWOP. Everyone knew that, including JA and her own attorneys. I know people on the boards were gnashing their teeth and biting their nails to the quick imagining the judge would free her some day, but that was never going to happen, not even a 1% chance. Juan knew it too.

There is nothing JA could have said to change that outcome. The heinousness of the crime and the premeditation sealed her fate. It really was a 'slam dunk' 1st degree murder conviction and life without parole. The only mystery along the way was whether a jury would also give her a DP sentence or not. I thought they would not. Either way she's in the exact same cell, eating the exact same food, in the exact same prison, where she will spend the rest of her life, and the only way out will be in a body bag. Waiting and hoping for her to feel bad, feel sorry, take responsibility...well that's wasted effort.

 

[Steve44]

There was, IMO, never a chance, not a single chance in hell of her getting anything but LWOP. Everyone knew that, including JA and her own attorneys. I know people on the boards were gnashing their teeth and biting their nails to the quick imagining the judge would free her some day, but that was never going to happen, not even a 1% chance. Juan knew it too.

There is nothing JA could have said to change that outcome. The heinousness of the crime and the premeditation sealed her fate. It really was a 'slam dunk' 1st degree murder conviction and life without parole. The only mystery along the way was whether a jury would also give her a DP sentence or not. I thought they would not. Either way she's in the exact same cell, eating the exact same food, in the exact same prison, where she will spend the rest of her life, and the only way out will be in a body bag. Waiting and hoping for her to feel bad, feel sorry, take responsibility...well that's wasted effort.

That was certainly a popular opinion among the legal intelligentsia, and proved a correct one, so who am I to argue? I still find the fact she didn't even try interesting, and I see no reason to attribute it to her legal intelligence, since she had none.

It may be vain to wait for her remorse, but it's wise to take note of her lack of it.

 

[salberg7]

I think everyone knew she would give self-defense her best shot, as obvious a lie as it was, but after the guilty verdict, and the specially cruel verdict, after it was clear no one, particularly the jury, believed her, to then not even miss a beat and to allocute as a domestic violence victim, to produce survivor T-shirts, for sale! to give so little reality to others' point of view and to maintain her own with such total disregard, to the people who had her life in their hands, I think couldn't help but surprise people not familiar with psychopathy.

Even at sentencing when there was the last thin chance to someday be free, she blew past it without even blinking, and just saw it as an opportunity to tell the same old story, to insist that her point of view was the only one that mattered.

He did not have Temple privileges at the time he was killed. He met with bishop then later with a disciplinary council before Jodi left Mesa, per the Hughes. Mimi's dad was on that council. Sky invited him to their new baby's blessing in early June and Travis replied he could not attend.

Thanks TexMex.

 

[salberg7]

I think everyone knew she would give self-defense her best shot, as obvious a lie as it was, but after the guilty verdict, and the specially cruel verdict, after it was clear no one, particularly the jury, believed her, to then not even miss a beat and to allocute as a domestic violence victim, to produce survivor T-shirts, for sale! to give so little reality to others' point of view and to maintain her own with such total disregard, to the people who had her life in their hands, I think couldn't help but surprise people not familiar with psychopathy.

Even at sentencing when there was the last thin chance to someday be free, she blew past it without even blinking, and just saw it as an opportunity to tell the same old story, to insist that her point of view was the only one that mattered.

He did not have Temple privileges at the time he was killed. He met with bishop then later with a disciplinary council before Jodi left Mesa, per the Hughes. Mimi's dad was on that council. Sky invited him to their new baby's blessing in early June and Travis replied he could not attend.

It sure surprised me, as it clearly would have been in her self interest to show alittle humility, even if it was a lie. But agreed she is not the brightest bulb in the bunch to have figured out another lie would have helped her even if she wasn't sincere. The absolute gall to hold up that "survivor" T-shirt. Wow. Floored me.
Her defense team IMO were terrible tactitioners as well, but I will bet she didn't follow any of their suggestions.
Her 18 days on the stand sunk her. The more she spoke, the bigger hole she dug herself. And as stated above, she offered the "truth" of her life story to lay a basis for her need to defend herself against Travis the abuser, but conveniently developed the fog and could remember nothing about the murder, until the day of sentencing when all of a sudden she clearly recalled the coup de grace.
Agreed, Casey Anthony was worse than JA. Her entire family lied for her on the stand as well.

 

[Hope4More]

Yes, but he's in jail and will be convicted (I predict) of his friend's death. Durst is a serial killer, he's actually much more dangerous than Arias.

Serial killer: ( z y z ) + opportunity.

: Concealed gun + knives + get away car = possibility for more than one victim - timely LE intervention.

 

[Hope4More]

That was certainly a popular opinion among the legal intelligentsia, and proved a correct one, so who am I to argue? I still find the fact she didn't even try interesting, and I see no reason to attribute it to her legal intelligence, since she had none.

It may be vain to wait for her remorse, but it's wise to take note of her lack of it.

JM was not so certain of the inevitability of the verdict. And only one possibly biased/tainted juror stood in the way of the DP.

There is IMO nothing inevitable about verdicts or sentencing in jury trials. From all after the fact indications, IMO the foreman #1 would have voted a lesser charge if the had taken Nurmi's advice and not gone for self-defense.

 

[Hope4More]

I think everyone knew she would give self-defense her best shot, as obvious a lie as it was, but after the guilty verdict, and the specially cruel verdict, after it was clear no one, particularly the jury, believed her, to then not even miss a beat and to allocute as a domestic violence victim, to produce survivor T-shirts, for sale! to give so little reality to others' point of view and to maintain her own with such total disregard, to the people who had her life in their hands, I think couldn't help but surprise people not familiar with psychopathy.

Even at sentencing when there was the last thin chance to someday be free, she blew past it without even blinking, and just saw it as an opportunity to tell the same old story, to insist that her point of view was the only one that mattered.

There was absolutely nothing ordinary about holding up that survivor T-shirt during her DP sentencing allocution. It was extraordinary.

And there was nothing ordinary about a convicted murderer standing before her sentencing judge and attacking her victim's family by calling them liars, then deliberately trying to inflict pain on them by suddenly remembering their brother was alive long enough to be aware of every last painful slash.

The near universal response -here and elsewhere- was disgust and anger at the former, and shock at the latter.

 

[Steve44]

Serial killer: ( z y z ) + opportunity.

: Concealed gun + knives + get away car = possibility for more than one victim - timely LE intervention.

Certainly leaves room for speculation. There was certainly none of the PTSD she would later claim; regularly checking in with L.E., working the crowd at Travis' memorial, her 'morbid curiosity' to see the pictures during the interrogation. Maybe the opposite of PTSD...

 

[TexMex]

Serial killer: ( z y z ) + opportunity.

: Concealed gun + knives + get away car = possibility for more than one victim - timely LE intervention.

Yep. Arias is convicted of more murders than Durst right now