Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #7

[pocketaccent]

I know all this has been discussed, repeatedly, but I guess what I'm stuck on is why the would do all that...towards what end?

A minor point---she didn't know before she left Mesa that TA was going to buy a new camera, much less what kind it would be (and she may or may not have been responsible for Zach's camera materializing in the BMW).

TA texted the about buying the Sony after she'd left Mesa, but he had already chosen what to buy, based on Zach's recommendation, not hers.

More major points: why, again? If she changed the dates on the sex photos but not on the shower photos, then tried to destroy the camera, her only possible purpose for doing so involved showing them at some point to a still alive Travis. Why?

And then they were deleted, whether taken before or that day.

The other point-- what do you think was the timeline for that day (what encounters, where was she, when might he have known she was there) before 5:20 pm, if they weren't occupied with sex at the time the photos indicate?

I'm totally open in theory to the possibility they didn't have sex that day, but I just can't imagine any scenario that makes sense to me why she'd fake the day and time of sex photos, unless it was to threaten Travis, which wouldn't have served her purpose that day- - she needed him to trust her, or at least for him to let his guard down.

We'll never know what Travis felt or thought on June 4 before he was murdered, including what he felt or thought about the surprising him in his own house.

I continue to think the was aware when she was planning the murder, though, that those first few moments after showing up were the most dangerous for her, given the depth of TA's anger and contempt for her he'd demonstrated on May 26, and the fact that unlike what she'd always counted on before, he never called or texted to apologize to her.

She had to find an opening just wide enough he didn't immediately run for the phone to call the police or a friend, and she needed to know she'd found that opening before she arrived.

As for Travis. I haven't changed my mind that he was really done with her, and on June 2, had no reason to think he'd ever have to deal with her again, certainly not in person. If she threw herself at his feet to confess and apologize on the phone, it wouldn't have cost him, as far as he could know (given who he was), to stay on the phone, to listen, and tell her OK, whatever.

Just a little opening, but enough. By not outright refusing to answer her calls and texts that night, the no doubt felt confident enough about being able to manipulate him when she arrived.

She didn't have to take the nude pictures with Zach's Sony in order to do what I described is possible on June 4th. She could have taken those pictures with her camera (back in March), save them on her laptop (my scenario requires her bringing the laptop with her), changes the date stamp, and transfers to T's camera.


Your sequence of events is excellent and very believable. I was going to agree to it 100 % and may do so later on.

But...

I began to re-explore the no-sex possibility when I thought about the perplexing 4 hour-gap between the sex photos and the shower photos.

Would Travis hang out with her for that long period of time after sex? After what she had done? ..blackmailing him with the sex tape among other things.

Even the wouldn't want to hang around for that many hours after announcing her presence. She couldn't afford to leave Travis out of her sight afterwards. She could not risk Travis talking on his phone or using email - what if he said to someone 'hey, Jodi is here!!'.
So I suspected there was no 4-hour gap.

And since I still have not given up on the scenario of camera time being 7 hours ahead (GMT time).... Travis had not even set his computer to AZ time.... His computer was set on Pacific Standard time so it's time was correct only half the year...my experiment gave me a little more confidence that maybe there was no sex.

One possible scenario:
She sneaks in the house early morning.

She snoops T's computer.

Transfers photos to T's camera (~6:30 am).

Prepares to kill inhumanely as possible. Has the gun ready just in case things don't go her way.

She wakes him up. (~10 am)
Hi, Travis. I dropped by to give you a check, CDs, personally apologize for...,.....,...., I promise I will not publish the sex tape. Look what I did for you while you were sleeping. I transferred my nude pictures in your camera for you to use against me if I ever go out of line again.

Travis deletes the photos and tries to shoo her away, begins to clean the floor signaling her to leave. She convinces him to take shower photos. Promises to go away afterwards.

She kills him. (~10:30 am) *No 4 hour gap in this scenario.

She attempts to clean up, fails since she was never a good housekeeper, snoops some more, takes shower, puts on makeup, eats lunch, replies Chris' text, activates Spybot on T's computer. Her adrenaline finally runs out, can't fight the effect of sudden adrenaline drop, crashes and falls asleep in the bedroom or the office, doors locked. She didn't sleep the night before so oversleeps until 4 pm. Used T's computer again between 4-5 pm to make it look like he was still alive. The arrogant thinks she can explain her tardiness to Ryan easily.

She leaves ~5 pm well rested.

 

[Hope4More]

She didn't have to take the nude pictures with Zach's Sony in order to do what I described is possible on June 4th. She could have taken those pictures with her camera (back in March), save them on her laptop (my scenario requires her bringing the laptop with her), changes the date stamp, and transfers to T's camera.


Your sequence of events is excellent and very believable. I was going to agree to it 100 % and may do so later on.

But...

I began to re-explore the no-sex possibility when I thought about the perplexing 4 hour-gap between the sex photos and the shower photos.

Would Travis hang out with her for that long period of time after sex? After what she had done? ..blackmailing him with the sex tape among other things.

Even the wouldn't want to hang around for that many hours after announcing her presence. She couldn't afford to leave Travis out of her sight afterwards. She could not risk Travis talking on his phone or using email - what if he said to someone 'hey, Jodi is here!!'.
So I suspected there was no 4-hour gap.

And since I still have not given up on the scenario of camera time being 7 hours ahead (GMT time).... Travis had not even set his computer to AZ time.... His computer was set on Pacific Standard time so it's time was correct only half the year...my experiment gave me a little more confidence that maybe there was no sex.

One possible scenario:
She sneaks in the house early morning.

She snoops T's computer.

Transfers photos to T's camera (~6:30 am).

Prepares to kill inhumanely as possible. Has the gun ready just in case things don't go her way.

She wakes him up. (~10 am)
Hi, Travis. I dropped by to give you a check, CDs, personally apologize for...,.....,...., I promise I will not publish the sex tape. Look what I did for you while you were sleeping. I transferred my nude pictures in your camera for you to use against me if I ever go out of line again.

Travis deletes the photos and tries to shoo her away, begins to clean the floor signaling her to leave. She convinces him to take shower photos. Promises to go away afterwards.

She kills him. (~10:30 am) *No 4 hour gap in this scenario.

She attempts to clean up, fails since she was never a good housekeeper, snoops some more, takes shower, puts on makeup, eats lunch, replies Chris' text, activates Spybot on T's computer. Her adrenaline finally runs out, can't fight the effect of sudden adrenaline drop, crashes and falls asleep in the bedroom or the office, doors locked. She didn't sleep the night before so oversleeps until 4 pm. Used T's computer again between 4-5 pm to make it look like he was still alive. The arrogant thinks she can explain her tardiness to Ryan easily.

She leaves ~5 pm well rested.

I agree about the 4 hour gap- that they weren't just cozily hanging out- and that she wasn't worried about explaining herself to Ryan. I've never understood what was and was not possible technically about changing the time and date stamp, but have always been receptive to the idea it was possible then, and that she certainly is devious and twisted enough to do such a thing. I also have questioned the psychology of the thing, his being at all willing to have sex with her that day.

I guess after my trip out there that I'm more convinced they did, and at the time indicated on the photos. The time stamps on the shower photos IMO fit in with the timeline of her cleaning up and leaving in time to make it to where her cell calls pinged. That means, IMO, that the correct time is also on the sex photos, because there is no reason at all for her to have altered the times if she took them that day, and for the reasons explained before, I personally don't see a plausible reason for planting them.

I think she left shortly after 2 and didn't return until Zach came and left, sometime between 4-4:15, which for me satisfies the 4 hour gap.

I just don't see her hanging around for any length of time after murdering Travis. Yes she was fine being many hours late to Utah, but concerned enough by 10:30pm to turn on her cell phone while still in AZ to call him. I think she didn't expect to be delayed by quite so many hours, and only was so because she had to leave to avoid Zach, then start from scratch to convince Travis to get in the shower, or to ply him with her excuse for returning, then hide or whatever until she knew he'd gone upstairs and into the shower.

(PS. She had all day in Pasadena to hang out, and my bet is she slept in her car for part of it, knowing she'd have to be up for many hours straight to drive to Mess, kill Travis, then drive at least as far as out of AZ so she could call Ryan. Even if she ran into TA's house, shot him, and ran right back out, that still would have taken an exhausting 10-11 hours, and killing him immediately IMO was never her plan).

Adding...I think it's possible she was fairly sure Travis wouldn't tell anyone she'd been there, but.....do agree his doing so had to have seemed a risk to her. I've wondered before if she simply hid his cellphone while she was there, or messed with it in some way.

 

[RickshawFan]

She didn't have to take the nude pictures with Zach's Sony in order to do what I described is possible on June 4th. She could have taken those pictures with her camera (back in March), save them on her laptop (my scenario requires her bringing the laptop with her), changes the date stamp, and transfers to T's camera.


Your sequence of events is excellent and very believable. I was going to agree to it 100 % and may do so later on.

But...

I began to re-explore the no-sex possibility when I thought about the perplexing 4 hour-gap between the sex photos and the shower photos.

Would Travis hang out with her for that long period of time after sex? After what she had done? ..blackmailing him with the sex tape among other things.

Even the wouldn't want to hang around for that many hours after announcing her presence. She couldn't afford to leave Travis out of her sight afterwards. She could not risk Travis talking on his phone or using email - what if he said to someone 'hey, Jodi is here!!'.
So I suspected there was no 4-hour gap.

And since I still have not given up on the scenario of camera time being 7 hours ahead (GMT time).... Travis had not even set his computer to AZ time.... His computer was set on Pacific Standard time so it's time was correct only half the year...my experiment gave me a little more confidence that maybe there was no sex.

One possible scenario:
She sneaks in the house early morning.

She snoops T's computer.

Transfers photos to T's camera (~6:30 am).

Prepares to kill inhumanely as possible. Has the gun ready just in case things don't go her way.

She wakes him up. (~10 am)
Hi, Travis. I dropped by to give you a check, CDs, personally apologize for...,.....,...., I promise I will not publish the sex tape. Look what I did for you while you were sleeping. I transferred my nude pictures in your camera for you to use against me if I ever go out of line again.

Travis deletes the photos and tries to shoo her away, begins to clean the floor signaling her to leave. She convinces him to take shower photos. Promises to go away afterwards.

She kills him. (~10:30 am) *No 4 hour gap in this scenario.

She attempts to clean up, fails since she was never a good housekeeper, snoops some more, takes shower, puts on makeup, eats lunch, replies Chris' text, activates Spybot on T's computer. Her adrenaline finally runs out, can't fight the effect of sudden adrenaline drop, crashes and falls asleep in the bedroom or the office, doors locked. She didn't sleep the night before so oversleeps until 4 pm. Used T's computer again between 4-5 pm to make it look like he was still alive. The arrogant thinks she can explain her tardiness to Ryan easily.

She leaves ~5 pm well rested.

I can go along with much of this.

Thoughts...

1. I'm more clear in my mind that came and went several times that day. She wasn't hanging out with TA.

2. She could have done a photo swap in TA's car in the garage using her own laptop.

3. If she was done with the murder in the afternoon, she would have left for SLC then. She was running very late.

4. It's not necessary to have a motive for to swap the sex photos. Most of what she does in life has no rationale.

 

[Hope4More]

I've always taken into consideration that Travis only received 2 other texts before 7pm (after Chris's text sent around 10:30 am and replied to at 12:10pm, iirc) and that he didn't reply to either of those 2 texts (one from a GF around 2:00pm, the second around 4pm, from someone asking him if he had a room to rent).

It just occurred to me for the first time that the could theoretically have deleted other incoming texts while he was still alive (to keep him from replying to them), or after the fact. It was testified to at trial that it wasn't possible to retrieve deleted texts from TA's cell, so there would be no way of knowing if she did this.

 

[Hope4More]

I can go along with much of this.

Thoughts...

1. I'm more clear in my mind that came and went several times that day. She wasn't hanging out with TA.

2. She could have done a photo swap in TA's car in the garage using her own laptop.

3. If she was done with the murder in the afternoon, she would have left for SLC then. She was running very late.

4. It's not necessary to have a motive for to swap the sex photos. Most of what she does in life has no rationale.

IMO she planned very thoroughly beforehand, and however warped her thinking, would have had to have a rationale that made sense to her for swapping the photos. I just don't see what it could be.

BTW...about the photos being insurance in exchange for the sex tape. She'd reported the phone with the tape on it as stolen, and I believe had used the stolen phone as the reason she told TA she needed to go to her bishop, "stat."

She'd have to have confessed to TA she'd lied about the Helio being stolen, in which case simply erasing the tape in front of him IMO would have been most reassuring, not planting naked photos of him on his own camera while he was asleep.

If she didn't tell him it was magically found or never stolen, then why would he need sex photos as insurance? It was HER phone, with HER voice on it during the sex call. She was already "implicated." Travis? Not so much. How could he even be identified?

 

[geevee]

IMO she planned very thoroughly beforehand, and however warped her thinking, would have had to have a rationale that made sense to her for swapping the photos. I just don't see what it could be.

BTW...about the photos being insurance in exchange for the sex tape. She'd reported the phone with the tape on it as stolen, and I believe had used the stolen phone as the reason she told TA she needed to go to her bishop, "stat."

She'd have to have confessed to TA she'd lied about the Helio being stolen, in which case simply erasing the tape in front of him IMO would have been most reassuring, not planting naked photos of him on his own camera while he was asleep.

If she didn't tell him it was magically found or never stolen, then why would he need sex photos as insurance? It was HER phone, with HER voice on it during the sex call. She was already "implicated." Travis? Not so much. How could he even be identified?

Early on in the case I had a pet theory that she made the down-low journey to plant the nude pics on his camera so Mimi would see them in Cancun, blowing up that relationship for good, she kept the gas receipts to prove to Travis she wasn't in AZ and couldn't have been the one to do it ("you must have used one of our old memory cards that had those pics on it"), then she needed the gas receipts to prove she hadn't been there to kill him.

At some point the nudes had been deleted before the shower pics were taken, that we know without much doubt, I wonder if it's possible that since they had been deleted and overwritten and the only files Melendez could get were the thumbnail files and had to rely on the memory card itself for time/date info, if it logged the last activity of those pics, which would have been them being deleted. She wouldn't have had to change any time stamps if that's the case, and if the camera's time were never set, which I don't think it was, the shower pics could have been much earlier. I agree with Pocket that he was killed a lot before 5:00, I think the last activity on his laptop was JA just before she left.

I also don't buy a 4 hour gap between sex and a shower, but then I never thought there was any sex that day. lol

 

[Hope4More]

Early on in the case I had a pet theory that she made the down-low journey to plant the nude pics on his camera so Mimi would see them in Cancun, blowing up that relationship for good, she kept the gas receipts to prove to Travis she wasn't in AZ and couldn't have been the one to do it ("you must have used one of our old memory cards that had those pics on it"), then she needed the gas receipts to prove she hadn't been there to kill him.

At some point the nudes had been deleted before the shower pics were taken, that we know without much doubt, I wonder if it's possible that since they had been deleted and overwritten and the only files Melendez could get were the thumbnail files and had to rely on the memory card itself for time/date info, if it logged the last activity of those pics, which would have been them being deleted. She wouldn't have had to change any time stamps if that's the case, and if the camera's time were never set, which I don't think it was, the shower pics could have been much earlier. I agree with Pocket that he was killed a lot before 5:00, I think the last activity on his laptop was JA just before she left.

I also don't buy a 4 hour gap between sex and a shower, but then I never thought there was any sex that day. lol

I don't understand what you're saying about how the timestamps on the shower photos could have been ( accidentally?) altered by her fiddling with the other photos not taken on his camera.

Do you find it impossible to believe, though, that she left after 2, and returned after Zach left?

I guess I'm inclined to believe they did have sex (however grim the occasion, from the looks of it), because I can't imagine otherwise how she would have convinced him to allow her to take photos of him naked in the shower, and I think getting him into the shower was always her plan.

 

[RickshawFan]

She didn't have to take the nude pictures with Zach's Sony in order to do what I described is possible on June 4th. She could have taken those pictures with her camera (back in March), save them on her laptop (my scenario requires her bringing the laptop with her), changes the date stamp, and transfers to T's camera.


Your sequence of events is excellent and very believable. I was going to agree to it 100 % and may do so later on.

But...

I began to re-explore the no-sex possibility when I thought about the perplexing 4 hour-gap between the sex photos and the shower photos.

Would Travis hang out with her for that long period of time after sex? After what she had done? ..blackmailing him with the sex tape among other things.

Even the wouldn't want to hang around for that many hours after announcing her presence. She couldn't afford to leave Travis out of her sight afterwards. She could not risk Travis talking on his phone or using email - what if he said to someone 'hey, Jodi is here!!'.
So I suspected there was no 4-hour gap.

And since I still have not given up on the scenario of camera time being 7 hours ahead (GMT time).... Travis had not even set his computer to AZ time.... His computer was set on Pacific Standard time so it's time was correct only half the year...my experiment gave me a little more confidence that maybe there was no sex.

One possible scenario:
She sneaks in the house early morning.

She snoops T's computer.

Transfers photos to T's camera (~6:30 am).

Prepares to kill inhumanely as possible. Has the gun ready just in case things don't go her way.

She wakes him up. (~10 am)
Hi, Travis. I dropped by to give you a check, CDs, personally apologize for...,.....,...., I promise I will not publish the sex tape. Look what I did for you while you were sleeping. I transferred my nude pictures in your camera for you to use against me if I ever go out of line again.

Travis deletes the photos and tries to shoo her away, begins to clean the floor signaling her to leave. She convinces him to take shower photos. Promises to go away afterwards.

She kills him. (~10:30 am) *No 4 hour gap in this scenario.

She attempts to clean up, fails since she was never a good housekeeper, snoops some more, takes shower, puts on makeup, eats lunch, replies Chris' text, activates Spybot on T's computer. Her adrenaline finally runs out, can't fight the effect of sudden adrenaline drop, crashes and falls asleep in the bedroom or the office, doors locked. She didn't sleep the night before so oversleeps until 4 pm. Used T's computer again between 4-5 pm to make it look like he was still alive. The arrogant thinks she can explain her tardiness to Ryan easily.

She leaves ~5 pm well rested.

She put the sex photos on the Sony card when she wasn't in the house. He had kicked her out. She stole his camera in revenge and sat in his car or somewhere and did the photo transfer. She went back into the house with the excuse that oops she had taken his camera by mistake. She put the knife etc in the closet while he was cleaning up. She surprised him while he was cleaning up, which is why the cleaner was out.

She taunted him with the sex photos. He asked her to leave and he made himself busy deleting the photos, since he was unfamiliar with the camera. This meant that he put off having a shower. went back in the house when she heard the shower.

I'm all about her leaving and coming back several times, each time with her rage escalating.

She activated the spybot by hacking his T-sirt biz front-end?

 

[Val1]

I agree about the 4 hour gap- that they weren't just cozily hanging out- and that she wasn't worried about explaining herself to Ryan. I've never understood what was and was not possible technically about changing the time and date stamp, but have always been receptive to the idea it was possible then, and that she certainly is devious and twisted enough to do such a thing. I also have questioned the psychology of the thing, his being at all willing to have sex with her that day.

I guess after my trip out there that I'm more convinced they did, and at the time indicated on the photos. The time stamps on the shower photos IMO fit in with the timeline of her cleaning up and leaving in time to make it to where her cell calls pinged. That means, IMO, that the correct time is also on the sex photos, because there is no reason at all for her to have altered the times if she took them that day, and for the reasons explained before, I personally don't see a plausible reason for planting them.

I think she left shortly after 2 and didn't return until Zach came and left, sometime between 4-4:15, which for me satisfies the 4 hour gap.

I just don't see her hanging around for any length of time after murdering Travis. Yes she was fine being many hours late to Utah, but concerned enough by 10:30pm to turn on her cell phone while still in AZ to call him. I think she didn't expect to be delayed by quite so many hours, and only was so because she had to leave to avoid Zach, then start from scratch to convince Travis to get in the shower, or to ply him with her excuse for returning, then hide or whatever until she knew he'd gone upstairs and into the shower.

(PS. She had all day in Pasadena to hang out, and my bet is she slept in her car for part of it, knowing she'd have to be up for many hours straight to drive to Mess, kill Travis, then drive at least as far as out of AZ so she could call Ryan. Even if she ran into TA's house, shot him, and ran right back out, that still would have taken an exhausting 10-11 hours, and killing him immediately IMO was never her plan).

Adding...I think it's possible she was fairly sure Travis wouldn't tell anyone she'd been there, but.....do agree his doing so had to have seemed a risk to her. I've wondered before if she simply hid his cellphone while she was there, or messed with it in some way.

Just wondering if anyone knows how much of this is pure fiction? https://books.google.ca/books?id=lY...age&q=jodi arias slept garage Darrell&f=false Chapter 19, p.162, 163.

Is it possible Shanna was working off notes from early interviews that we haven't seen? I recall early on reading somewhere that JA had basically hidden in the storage area until the coast was clear, first sleeping in TA's car after her long drive, then when she woke going through some of the boxes in there(allegedly hers) including one with kitchen stuff from her and Darrell's(probably a camera box too...). Just that seems to ring more true to me than all this showing up out of the blue at 4am, sleeping until 1pm with TA then messing around together for another period of 4+ hours after the conversations and bad feelings that we know they had had, then convincing him to let her take nudes of him on his own camera in the sanctity of his bed/bathroom, let alone the nasty ones of her.

 

[RickshawFan]

IMO she planned very thoroughly beforehand, and however warped her thinking, would have had to have a rationale that made sense to her for swapping the photos. I just don't see what it could be.

BTW...about the photos being insurance in exchange for the sex tape. She'd reported the phone with the tape on it as stolen, and I believe had used the stolen phone as the reason she told TA she needed to go to her bishop, "stat."

She'd have to have confessed to TA she'd lied about the Helio being stolen, in which case simply erasing the tape in front of him IMO would have been most reassuring, not planting naked photos of him on his own camera while he was asleep.

If she didn't tell him it was magically found or never stolen, then why would he need sex photos as insurance? It was HER phone, with HER voice on it during the sex call. She was already "implicated." Travis? Not so much. How could he even be identified?

I don't think it would be ' MO to come up with a mutual insurance plan. If TA already distrusted her over all the BS he endured, I can't imagine him not guessing she had some trick up her sleeve if an "insurance plan" was placed in the mix.

The sex photos were a decision she made on the spot. It wasn't something she planned for. She might not even have known that the time stamps would be changed. She wanted to ruin TA's relationship with Mimi re the Cancun trip, not realizing that it wasn't going to be an intimate relationship. She was much more invested in destroying that relationship than most anything else. She didn't know until after EF told her that Mimi was just a friend that she needn't have worried. In the interrogation, she realized she'd screwed up with the photo swap, but didn't know quite how. During the interrogation, she was extremely interested in having EF believe she and TA were having sex all the time. She had wanted Mimi to think that too; TA had already come clean with Lisa about it, so she knew any kind of ongoing rendezvous would be very disruptive to his dating life. For this purpose, manufacturing evidence was just as powerful as having the real stuff.

was more interested in taking revenge than in saving her life. I think she had a momentary lapse agreeing that the sex photos were taken on June 4, simply out of spite against Mimi.

 

[Val1]

I don't understand what you're saying about how the timestamps on the shower photos could have been ( accidentally?) altered by her fiddling with the other photos not taken on his camera.

Do you find it impossible to believe, though, that she left after 2, and returned after Zach left?

I guess I'm inclined to believe they did have sex (however grim the occasion, from the looks of it), because I can't imagine otherwise how she would have convinced him to allow her to take photos of him naked in the shower, and I think getting him into the shower was always her plan.

It's the way Encase used to recover data from what I've read.... it will take the last active date and use it. So those pics could have been from June 2007 or April 2008 or any other date(yes a small window for them actually having happened that last day) at 1:44pm(or whatever they were) but because the pics had not only been previously deleted and overwritten but also likely predated the activation date of the camera itself, Encase gave them the last known date the camera had been activated which was the shower pics on June 4/2008.

 

[Val1]

I don't think it would be ' MO to come up with a mutual insurance plan. If TA already distrusted her over all the BS he endured, I can't imagine him not guessing she had some trick up her sleeve if an "insurance plan" was placed in the mix.

The sex photos were a decision she made on the spot. It wasn't something she planned for. She might not even have known that the time stamps would be changed. She wanted to ruin TA's relationship with Mimi re the Cancun trip, not realizing that it wasn't going to be an intimate relationship. She was much more invested in destroying that relationship than most anything else. She didn't know until after EF told her that Mimi was just a friend that she needn't have worried. In the interrogation, she realized she'd screwed up with the photo swap, but didn't know quite how. During the interrogation, she was extremely interested in having EF believe she and TA were having sex all the time. She had wanted Mimi to think that too; TA had already come clean with Lisa about it, so she knew any kind of ongoing rendezvous would be very disruptive to his dating life. For this purpose, manufacturing evidence was just as powerful as having the real stuff.

was more interested in taking revenge than in saving her life. I think she had a momentary lapse agreeing that the sex photos were taken on June 4, simply out of spite against Mimi.

I don't think she was worried about Mimi, she admitted in cross she had found out the end of May that Mimi was out of the picture, I think it was the new threat, Brooke, that had her in a tizzy.

 

[Hope4More]

I don't think she was worried about Mimi, she admitted in cross she had found out the end of May that Mimi was out of the picture, I think it was the new threat, Brooke, that had her in a tizzy.

The definitely thought for a time that Mimi was a threat BEFORE she left Mesa, not least because Travis told her Mimi was the One, wanted to invite her on the road trip to the OKC convention, etc.

The was all the more angry because Mimi as the One materialized just as the had finally succeeded in scaring Lisa away.

But, yes, I completely agree that the knew by late May at the latest that Mimi was out of the running, and that she knew about Brooke, who was no doubt the last straw because she was the whole package replacement of herself AND genuine wife material- -Mormon, smart, fun, flirty, and very attractive. Tizzy indeed, especially after Travis's FB posts about Brooke, the day the staged the gun theft.

 

[Hope4More]

Just wondering if anyone knows how much of this is pure fiction? https://books.google.ca/books?id=lY...age&q=jodi arias slept garage Darrell&f=false Chapter 19, p.162, 163.

Is it possible Shanna was working off notes from early interviews that we haven't seen? I recall early on reading somewhere that JA had basically hidden in the storage area until the coast was clear, first sleeping in TA's car after her long drive, then when she woke going through some of the boxes in there(allegedly hers) including one with kitchen stuff from her and Darrell's(probably a camera box too...). Just that seems to ring more true to me than all this showing up out of the blue at 4am, sleeping until 1pm with TA then messing around together for another period of 4+ hours after the conversations and bad feelings that we know they had had, then convincing him to let her take nudes of him on his own camera in the sanctity of his bed/bathroom, let alone the nasty ones of her.

That link didn't take me to a discussion about her in the garage. Instead, it provided one page, about her stop at Darryl's and getting the gas cans. The details of that story on that one page are wrong, though. The called Brewer several times beforehand, not just once and not only a few days beforehand, and she had told him on the phone (the second call) that she wanted them for a trip, and that she was going to Mesa.

I read Hogan's book a long time ago on my Kindle (which is now dead, and i can't access her book), and I remember even then (before a lot of our group sleuthing here) finding a great many mistakes in her information.

Who would the have told about what actually happened that day? And, I don't believe the detail about her going through her own boxes in the storage area of the garage (the one car part, presumably). She stored just a few boxes at TA's (known from her related texts), and she removed them with her UHaul before at long last leaving Messages.

 

[Hope4More]

I don't think it would be ' MO to come up with a mutual insurance plan. If TA already distrusted her over all the BS he endured, I can't imagine him not guessing she had some trick up her sleeve if an "insurance plan" was placed in the mix.

The sex photos were a decision she made on the spot. It wasn't something she planned for. She might not even have known that the time stamps would be changed. She wanted to ruin TA's relationship with Mimi re the Cancun trip, not realizing that it wasn't going to be an intimate relationship. She was much more invested in destroying that relationship than most anything else. She didn't know until after EF told her that Mimi was just a friend that she needn't have worried. In the interrogation, she realized she'd screwed up with the photo swap, but didn't know quite how. During the interrogation, she was extremely interested in having EF believe she and TA were having sex all the time. She had wanted Mimi to think that too; TA had already come clean with Lisa about it, so she knew any kind of ongoing rendezvous would be very disruptive to his dating life. For this purpose, manufacturing evidence was just as powerful as having the real stuff.

was more interested in taking revenge than in saving her life. I think she had a momentary lapse agreeing that the sex photos were taken on June 4, simply out of spite against Mimi.

I think she did her absolute best to deny the sex photos were taken on June 4 (paraphrased):

"That looks like me, but I was NOT there!"

"Are you sure they weren't taken another time? Because dates and times on photos can be (manipulated)."

"I know it's far-fetched, but maybe Travis used one of my memory cards I left there?"

She did NOT want to admit the photos were taken that day, for obvious reasons. Only after she realized she couldn't lie her way out of denying she was there on the 4th did she admit she was, and that the photos were about them having sex that day.

One other point: I don't believe she had sex or nude photos from another time to do that switching around on the 4th, much less photos that would have had to be taken after the OKC convention, when she first dyed her hair away from all blonde.

Travis didn't trust her enough by then, IMO, to allow her to take that kind of photo on her camera. They fought -bitterly--for most of March on through the day she left, and she was pulling major crap on him nonstop, including stealing his diamond ring, blowing up his BMW, and trying to prevent him from meeting his PPL quota.

And... remember that she had to manufacture "evidence" of their sexual activity, including the May 2 tree fantasy email, and recording phone sex, whenever that was. She wouldn't have felt the need to work that hard at it, IMO, if she already had photo evidence of the sexual activity she wanted to hold over his head, or to use against him via sending the photos to GF's or whatever.

 

[Val1]

That link didn't take me to a discussion about her in the garage. Instead, it provided one page, about her stop at Darryl's and getting the gas cans. The details of that story on that one page are wrong, though. The called Brewer several times beforehand, not just once and not only a few days beforehand, and she had told him on the phone (the second call) that she wanted them for a trip, and that she was going to Mesa.

I read Hogan's book a long time ago on my Kindle (which is now dead, and i can't access her book), and I remember even then (before a lot of our group sleuthing here) finding a great many mistakes in her information.

Who would the have told about what actually happened that day? And, I don't believe the detail about her going through her own boxes in the storage area of the garage (the one car part, presumably). She stored just a few boxes at TA's (known from her related texts), and she removed them with her UHaul before at long last leaving Messages.

I was more talking about the roommates and Shanna's account of their last interaction with TA, as for possibly still having stuff in his storage space/attic, does anyone know for sure that she didn't? She certainly seemed to have had the opportunity to have stashed stuff without TA even knowing about it. Perhaps that was one of the last arguments, he may have come across some of her old witchcraft books when he was finally getting his life back on track...

Anyway, here's a pic of the portion I was talking about.

 

[Val1]

I think she did her absolute best to deny the sex photos were taken on June 4 (paraphrased):

"That looks like me, but I was NOT there!"

"Are you sure they weren't taken another time? Because dates and times on photos can be (manipulated)."

"I know it's far-fetched, but maybe Travis used one of my memory cards I left there?"

She did NOT want to admit the photos were taken that day, for obvious reasons. Only after she realized she couldn't lie her way out of denying she was there on the 4th did she admit she was, and that the photos were about them having sex that day.

One other point: I don't believe she had sex or nude photos from another time to do that switching around on the 4th, much less photos that would have had to be taken after the OKC convention, when she first dyed her hair away from all blonde.

Travis didn't trust her enough by then, IMO, to allow her to take that kind of photo on her camera. They fought -bitterly--for most of March on through the day she left, and she was pulling major crap on him nonstop, including stealing his diamond ring, blowing up his BMW, and trying to prevent him from meeting his PPL quota.

And... remember that she had to manufacture "evidence" of their sexual activity, including the May 2 tree fantasy email, and recording phone sex, whenever that was. She wouldn't have felt the need to work that hard at it, IMO, if she already had photo evidence of the sexual activity she wanted to hold over his head, or to use against him via sending the photos to GF's or whatever.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-General-Discussion-7&p=12759032#post12759032
pocketaccent's experiment just proved that changing the creation date is/was a piece of cake, plus there is also the whole question over the fact that when the memory card was run through Encase, it wasn't even write-protected. Now add to that that it appears from the testimony that only the shower pics had been embedded with the date/time stamp from the camera... the nudes were all done by Encase's software. Sure raises my eyebrows.


Going back to:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-book-February-2016-2&p=12378939#post12378939
https://youtu.be/E9hvA3hQpBk
"Det.M says, starting at about 2:25 in this video, that he couldn't pull anything off the internal memory for TA's camera because he couldn't find anything saved to the internal memory. He also goes on to explain that for the memory stick(he briefly explains the difference between it and a sim card) he was unable to use a write-blocker to pull the info off it. Therefore he plugged them directly into the reader to pull the info using Encase.

At 16:49 he says the date/time info on the unallocated pics was created by the Encase software report. JM has him verify that the date/time info for the shower pics came from the camera having imprinted them directly, but I didn't hear him say that specifically about the nudes, though the way they discussed all the deleted(shower) and unallocated(sexual) pics together they do seem to infer it, in fact he had just said that typically he wouldn't expect it from unallocated files. Now from what I've read on Encase, at least back in 2008, it tells you that it will give the last date accessed on the camera to unallocated files, therefore it would follow that thumbprints in unallocated spaces with no file left at all won't have anything, but those with partial files will be given the last date the camera was accessed."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-book-February-2016-2&p=12379860#post12379860
"Quote Originally Posted by TexMex View Post
the images (except two which had been overridden) contained the date and time they were created."
<snip>
"the reason two sex pics don't have the red date and time stamp is because he could not recover even the meta data"
<snip>
"Again, if you read the Encase info, or pretty much any of the software available at that time, it appears that it is up to the technician to decide which date applies when all of the metadata is not available, part of that being going by the dates they would deem most condusive to fitting within the timeframe that they were looking for and that the "creation" time could apply."
https://whereismydata.wordpress.com/tag/dates/

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-book-February-2016-2&p=12380269#post12380269
"In response to the jury questions Dworkin had said:
-----------
JURY QUESTIONS

1) are date and time stamps on photos taken by digital cameras, can they be manually manipulated?
Answer: the photo of the file would have to exist first and then go and change the time/date.
It applies to "exif" information as well.

Dworkin did not attempt to turn on the camera as it had been stored for a long time and there was no reason to do it at the time. Dworkin did not see any evidence of time stamp manipulation.

Martinez asks about #413, is it possible that the photo of Jodi and her sister, could it have been taken in 2007 and then uploaded or downloaded in 2008? Witness answer : "anything is possible"."

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4987181?start=15&tstart=0
"Need original photo date vs. import date"
"morganda
Feb 16, 2015 10:04 AM
in response to Terence Devlin

Unfortunately the Mac OS finder does not allow one to view JPEG photos in a folder by file creation date as is possible in Windows because Macs default to the modification date. On a Mac I have used Lemkesoft's GraphicConverter program as a work around. It does a great job in shifting/changing EXIF date/time stamps for batches of JPEG photos so that one can fix camera date/time setting errors and allows you to synchronize photos from different cameras. I have used it to change JPEG modification dates to creation dates for batches of JPEGs created from camera raw files. One simply selects pictures in a folder containing JPEGs within Graphic Converter's Browser, and then chooses the following two actions:

(1) Metadata EXIF, IPTC, ...

(2) Set EXIF Data to File Creation Date

After following this procedure, my photos sort by creation date in the Mac OS finder. This same procedure probably would be applicable to your situation."

 

[Hope4More]

I was more talking about the roommates and Shanna's account of their last interaction with TA, as for possibly still having stuff in his storage space/attic, does anyone know for sure that she didn't? She certainly seemed to have had the opportunity to have stashed stuff without TA even knowing about it. Perhaps that was one of the last arguments, he may have come across some of her old witchcraft books when he was finally getting his life back on track...

Anyway, here's a pic of the portion I was talking about. View attachment 100070

Almost every sentence of that excerpt is demonstrably wrong. Neither roommate saw Travis that morning; Zach had the day off; Enrique left for work first; Zach came back at 3, not Enrique, and he didn't hear or see Travis or the ; there is no way to know when Travis woke up; the item Chris mentioned wasn't something he bought or found in Cancun but a PPL-related CD or whatever by PPL'er Mark Smith, etc. etc. etc.

Not even close.


As for hiding out in the garage (the one car storage part), that I can readily believe she did for some portion of the day, and about a box of hers being there- I doubt it, but who knows, but I think it's very unlikely she didn't arrive with everything she needed to kill him with, including at least one favorite knife.

 

[Hope4More]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-General-Discussion-7&p=12759032#post12759032
pocketaccent's experiment just proved that changing the creation date is/was a piece of cake, plus there is also the whole question over the fact that when the memory card was run through Encase, it wasn't even write-protected. Now add to that that it appears from the testimony that only the shower pics had been embedded with the date/time stamp from the camera... the nudes were all done by Encase's software. Sure raises my eyebrows.


Going back to:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-book-February-2016-2&p=12378939#post12378939
https://youtu.be/E9hvA3hQpBk
"Det.M says, starting at about 2:25 in this video, that he couldn't pull anything off the internal memory for TA's camera because he couldn't find anything saved to the internal memory. He also goes on to explain that for the memory stick(he briefly explains the difference between it and a sim card) he was unable to use a write-blocker to pull the info off it. Therefore he plugged them directly into the reader to pull the info using Encase.

At 16:49 he says the date/time info on the unallocated pics was created by the Encase software report. JM has him verify that the date/time info for the shower pics came from the camera having imprinted them directly, but I didn't hear him say that specifically about the nudes, though the way they discussed all the deleted(shower) and unallocated(sexual) pics together they do seem to infer it, in fact he had just said that typically he wouldn't expect it from unallocated files. Now from what I've read on Encase, at least back in 2008, it tells you that it will give the last date accessed on the camera to unallocated files, therefore it would follow that thumbprints in unallocated spaces with no file left at all won't have anything, but those with partial files will be given the last date the camera was accessed."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-book-February-2016-2&p=12379860#post12379860
"Quote Originally Posted by TexMex View Post
the images (except two which had been overridden) contained the date and time they were created."
<snip>
"the reason two sex pics don't have the red date and time stamp is because he could not recover even the meta data"
<snip>
"Again, if you read the Encase info, or pretty much any of the software available at that time, it appears that it is up to the technician to decide which date applies when all of the metadata is not available, part of that being going by the dates they would deem most condusive to fitting within the timeframe that they were looking for and that the "creation" time could apply."
https://whereismydata.wordpress.com/tag/dates/

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-book-February-2016-2&p=12380269#post12380269
"In response to the jury questions Dworkin had said:
-----------
JURY QUESTIONS

1) are date and time stamps on photos taken by digital cameras, can they be manually manipulated?
Answer: the photo of the file would have to exist first and then go and change the time/date.
It applies to "exif" information as well.

Dworkin did not attempt to turn on the camera as it had been stored for a long time and there was no reason to do it at the time. Dworkin did not see any evidence of time stamp manipulation.

Martinez asks about #413, is it possible that the photo of Jodi and her sister, could it have been taken in 2007 and then uploaded or downloaded in 2008? Witness answer : "anything is possible"."

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4987181?start=15&tstart=0
"Need original photo date vs. import date"
"morganda
Feb 16, 2015 10:04 AM
in response to Terence Devlin

Unfortunately the Mac OS finder does not allow one to view JPEG photos in a folder by file creation date as is possible in Windows because Macs default to the modification date. On a Mac I have used Lemkesoft's GraphicConverter program as a work around. It does a great job in shifting/changing EXIF date/time stamps for batches of JPEG photos so that one can fix camera date/time setting errors and allows you to synchronize photos from different cameras. I have used it to change JPEG modification dates to creation dates for batches of JPEGs created from camera raw files. One simply selects pictures in a folder containing JPEGs within Graphic Converter's Browser, and then chooses the following two actions:

(1) Metadata EXIF, IPTC, ...

(2) Set EXIF Data to File Creation Date

After following this procedure, my photos sort by creation date in the Mac OS finder. This same procedure probably would be applicable to your situation."

No matter how many times or how well the technical stuff about cameras is explained, the details sail right over my head.

As I've said, I've always been willing to believe it was theoretically possible for her to plant the photos on his camera, and I can believe she would take the trouble to do that if it served a twisted purpose for her.

I remain at a loss WHY she would.

 

[RickshawFan]

I don't think she was worried about Mimi, she admitted in cross she had found out the end of May that Mimi was out of the picture, I think it was the new threat, Brooke, that had her in a tizzy.

I didn't think she knew about the "just friends" agreement between TA and Mimi until July in the interrogation. Until then, she would have done everything possible to disrupt that relationship.

In her cross, she had every reason to put knowing the knowing about Mimi in May because she'd be removing a motive for murder.