Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

[RickshawFan]

Pocket returns.

***
1. THE LETTERS

Taking in account what JM & Nurmi & Sky have written about them, and tossing in Debbie Moran's excellent analysis of them, as well as our own extended discussions here about the letters themselves, and the timing of her producing them, etc.:

1. Only copies of copies were ever produced. JM says one of the reasons he thought they were forged was that not one of the letters was creased.

********

Adding- the fact that the letters weren't creased also indicates, IMO, that Debbie Maran was spot on in her analysis that the letters were cut & pasted. From his journals, for sure, but also, I believe, from customized index card forgeries she did in jail.

How did the index cards get smuggled out? I don't think that would have been difficult at all. Around the time she came up with lie #3, Nurmi wrote a Motion- which was granted- that the State not be given access to the 's visitor list. How convenient? A wee index card or two, slipped into whatever & taken away by a visitor. Not a big thing. This is a , after all, who came up with the plan to smuggle out messages in code via magazines.

Sooner or later, there had to be creases, though. Even after they're cut and pasted and copied, someone has to get sent them. Someone has to get them to JA? How is that going to happen without creases?

It's possible JA showed the requisite forged sentences on those "friends and family" videos she was allowed to make from prison, and her contact simply froze the video, snapped a shot, and cut and pasted from there.

I think the pedo lie started before JA's defense required it. I'll bet she had seeds for all kinds of lies she could make about TA ever since she saw him with Lisa. Her evil mind started to work....

The pedo lie and DV cr-- must already have been her thoughts when she wrote to his grandmother after the murder? When she wrote the manifesto?

It's been a while, so my details are a little hazy.

I go with pocketaccent's idea upthread that the journal was used to forge TA's handwriting and phrasing (and not just to read) for something nefarious. She had plenty of time in Mesa to be practicing and getting better at it. She might have had a whole menu of lies about Travis' predilections to be documented with "his handwriting", and the pedo story was just one strand.

 

[pocketaccent]

Scary!

I've never put much thought or weight on the poem JA sent to Travis on June 2 @ 2:19 am - 'There once was a T-dizzle, who's things would not fizzle. He always kept his word, and had a whistle like a bird. And when he sang, it would sizzle.'

This is after she kept bugging him to call her(starting from 10:49 pm the previous night) but he didn't. After receiving this poem, Travis finally responds @ 2:30 am that he will call as soon as he can. He calls ~3 am and they talk until ~ 4 am.

I think she was threatening and intimidating him. She was saying Tdog needs to keep his mouth shut, like he promised. If he sings, watch out, something is going to sizzle.

Can't imagine the tone of that 3-4 am conversation. I wonder by this time, if she has uploaded the sex tape or some video onto the youtube account she opened on May 29, under private viewing only section, and let Travis aware of this. (I keep all my family videos in my youtube channel to safe guard against natural disasters. Public cannot see, unless I make them public. I can also let family member or friends to view my videos but not public).

For me, this is one more reason to disbelieve sex on June 4th.

 

[pocketaccent]

Uhmmm. JM knew? During cross, I remember him asking her if she wanted to, she could have put the sex tape on the internet. JA answered yes she didn't know how at the time but she could have figured it out eventually.

 

[RickshawFan]

Scary!

********

Can't imagine the tone of that 3-4 am conversation. I wonder by this time, if she has uploaded the sex tape or some video onto the youtube account she opened on May 29, under private viewing only section, and let Travis aware of this. (I keep all my family videos in my youtube channel to safe guard against natural disasters. Public cannot see, unless I make them public. I can also let family member or friends to view my videos but not public).

For me, this is one more reason to disbelieve sex on June 4th.

Hmmmmm...but LE could have got their hands on any material on YouTube with a subpoena, even if it wasn't for public viewing? And, if it was posted once, it's there forever.

 

[pocketaccent]

Hmmmmm...but LE could have got their hands on any material on YouTube with a subpoena, even if it wasn't for public viewing? And, if it was posted once, it's there forever.

You can delete your video anytime you want. Once deleted it's gone forever unless you re-upload again.

I think by the time she got arrested, she deleted whatever she uploaded to blackmail Travis. (Don't expose me or I will expose you). She didn't need to blackmail anymore after she killed him.

 

[salberg7]

I read a large part of The Hughes’ book this past weekend. I was struck by the amount of manipulation and lies the killer told - she seems to have just made stuff up as she went along. Sky also stated that she didn’t think Travis & the killer had as much sex as the killer alludes to. I was also flabbergasted about how clingy she was to Travis. The book also drove home how she manipulated Travis so much, especially at the end, that the poor guy was literally going crazy.

Her appeal is due to be presented this Wednesday. I assume it won’t be public?

 

[Hope4More]

Scary!

I've never put much thought or weight on the poem JA sent to Travis on June 2 @ 2:19 am - 'There once was a T-dizzle, who's things would not fizzle. He always kept his word, and had a whistle like a bird. And when he sang, it would sizzle.'

This is after she kept bugging him to call her(starting from 10:49 pm the previous night) but he didn't. After receiving this poem, Travis finally responds @ 2:30 am that he will call as soon as he can. He calls ~3 am and they talk until ~ 4 am.

I think she was threatening and intimidating him. She was saying Tdog needs to keep his mouth shut, like he promised. If he sings, watch out, something is going to sizzle.

Can't imagine the tone of that 3-4 am conversation. I wonder by this time, if she has uploaded the sex tape or some video onto the youtube account she opened on May 29, under private viewing only section, and let Travis aware of this. (I keep all my family videos in my youtube channel to safe guard against natural disasters. Public cannot see, unless I make them public. I can also let family member or friends to view my videos but not public).

For me, this is one more reason to disbelieve sex on June 4th.

I think the "keeping (his) word" she referred to in that silly rhyme she no doubt thought Shakespearean was simply his "promise" that he would call her back that night.

She was all packed & ready to leave on her murder mission, but clearly felt she had to speak with him (for whatever reason/s) before she left.

After being nagged, TA told her he was busy and would call her in awhile, but he obviously wasn't in any hurry to do so, even after (or in part because) she still wouldn't leave him alone.

And IMO, there is no way she told him she'd uploaded something incriminating, even if she had in fact done so, which I'm not convinced she had. The call wouldn't have lasted an hour, and there is no way he would have allowed her to remain in his house for any length of time whatsoever.

He already didn't trust her, imo, which the was keenly aware of after May 26. I think the urgency for her of that call was that she needed to tell him lies to soothe him enough that he'd let his guard down long enough when she surprised him in his house that he wouldn't call the police or text a friend she was there.

 

[Hope4More]

Sooner or later, there had to be creases, though. Even after they're cut and pasted and copied, someone has to get sent them. Someone has to get them to JA? How is that going to happen without creases?

It's possible JA showed the requisite forged sentences on those "friends and family" videos she was allowed to make from prison, and her contact simply froze the video, snapped a shot, and cut and pasted from there.

I think the pedo lie started before JA's defense required it. I'll bet she had seeds for all kinds of lies she could make about TA ever since she saw him with Lisa. Her evil mind started to work....

The pedo lie and DV cr-- must already have been her thoughts when she wrote to his grandmother after the murder? When she wrote the manifesto?

It's been a while, so my details are a little hazy.

I go with pocketaccent's idea upthread that the journal was used to forge TA's handwriting and phrasing (and not just to read) for something nefarious. She had plenty of time in Mesa to be practicing and getting better at it. She might have had a whole menu of lies about Travis' predilections to be documented with "his handwriting", and the pedo story was just one strand.

The didn't mention/accuse/suggest/hint at the pedo lie in her nauseating letter to TA's family. Since the letter was obviously intended to cause his family every flavor of pain she could think of, including accusing TA of DV, I think the fact she didn't hurl the pedo lie then is telling.

Gliding over a bunch of other clues relating to timing & content of the 10 letters, recall what Nurmi says in his book about them: that he received the letters unexpectedly, out of the blue, and that receiving them changed the trajectory of his case.

That much he says outright. But more is suggested & can be inferred. The , as far as we know, first brought up the pedo lie in her second interview with Cheryl Karp. She hadn't told it to Samuels, who interviewed her before she gave up on clinging to the ninjas lie.

Nurmi had Karp's report. Even if the hadn't told it to Nurmi before he read Karp's report, he knew of it then. Yet....how convinced could he have been that the wasn't just making up a replacement lie, equally implausible, but far more dangerous, since it wasn't until several months later (iirc) that he received those letters out of the blue and saw the light?


It doesn't make any sense whatsoever, IMO, that the wouldn't have produced those letters much earlier, if she had already forged them, or that she wouldn't have trotted out the pedo lie to gullible & sympathetic Samuels.


Also for context: by the time the first asserted the pedo lie, her own mitigation specialist & attorneys had tried but failed to find anyone who could & would testify positively about the in court, and had nothing at all in hand about TA that suggested anything about him other than he was well liked, loved and respected.

The pedo lie was invented, Imo, not just to provide a "reason" why TA would be abusive to her and only her, ever, but because her hatred of him/rage at him was magnified by the necessity of having to drop the ninjas story- her preferred lie, because it portrayed her as completely blameless.

 

[Hope4More]

Timed out for editing, but under "for context"....

The didn't sling DV until AFTER her police interview with the female detective (subsequently accused TA of it in letter to his family).

She didn't sling pedo until after Nurmi convinced her the ninjas lie wouldn't fly, yes, but also...after Nurmi had gotten his hands on a great many of TA's texts & emails to the .

What was Nurmi's speciality? Representing pedophiles and other "sexual deviants," yes? How much would he have read of anal sex and little red riding hood and pigtails before he asked the questions that could inspire her to create a pedo lie?

 

[pocketaccent]

The didn't mention/accuse/suggest/hint at the pedo lie in her nauseating letter to TA's family. Since the letter was obviously intended to cause his family every flavor of pain she could think of, including accusing TA of DV, I think the fact she didn't hurl the pedo lie then is telling.

Gliding over a bunch of other clues relating to timing & content of the 10 letters, recall what Nurmi says in his book about them: that he received the letters unexpectedly, out of the blue, and that receiving them changed the trajectory of his case.

That much he says outright. But more is suggested & can be inferred. The , as far as we know, first brought up the pedo lie in her second interview with Cheryl Karp. She hadn't told it to Samuels, who interviewed her before she gave up on clinging to the ninjas lie.

Nurmi had Karp's report. Even if the hadn't told it to Nurmi before he read Karp's report, he knew of it then. Yet....how convinced could he have been that the wasn't just making up a replacement lie, equally implausible, but far more dangerous, since it wasn't until several months later (iirc) that he received those letters out of the blue and saw the light?


It doesn't make any sense whatsoever, IMO, that the wouldn't have produced those letters much earlier, if she had already forged them, or that she wouldn't have trotted out the pedo lie to gullible & sympathetic Samuels.


Also for context: by the time the first asserted the pedo lie, her own mitigation specialist & attorneys had tried but failed to find anyone who could & would testify positively about the in court, and had nothing at all in hand about TA that suggested anything about him other than he was well liked, loved and respected.

The pedo lie was invented, Imo, not just to provide a "reason" why TA would be abusive to her and only her, ever, but because her hatred of him/rage at him was magnified by the necessity of having to drop the ninjas story- her preferred lie, because it portrayed her as completely blameless.

When she wrote the letter to T's family, she was claiming she had no reason to kill Travis. Her story was that T was insanely jealous of her but she was moving on and that on June 4th, T and she were having a great time until tragedy.

Detectives had already interrogated her if T had been abusing her and is that why she murdered him. She couldn't say to T's family that T the pedophile was hitting on her because then she would be agreeing with her interrogators. She however did include in the letter that T abused just a little, but not enough to murder, I think just to hurt them.

It must have been killing her to realize that she couldn't use the meticulously manufactured evidence that she already created and possessed.

I believe when Nurmi and Samuels finally convinced her that evidence doesn't support the ninja lie, she was over the moon. The forged letters can finally be used!

Isn't it interesting that she had someone anonymously email the letters to Nurmi rather than telling him where to find them. No originals. Just uncreased PDF copies saved on computer. Never mailed. (I don't believe it but if she wrote in jail, 10 pages of letters had to be given to smuggler unfolded, and that person also never folded them until PDF copies could be made on his computer. And who can that person be.)

She handwrote those on plain white computer/copy paper with a pencil and with a lot of help from an eraser. While Travis was alive. My firm belief.

 

[salberg7]

Absolutely, pocket, she must have been livid about the dismissal of those letters. Especially when in her own sick convoluted mind she expected not to be convicted for this crime.

 

[Hope4More]

When she wrote the letter to T's family was claiming she had no reason to kill Travis. Her story was that T was insanely jealous of her but she was moving on and that on June 4th, T and she were having a great time until tragedy.

Detectives had already interrogated her if T had been abusing her and is that why she murdered him. She couldn't say to T's family that T the pedophile was hitting on her because then she would be agreeing with her interrogators. She however did include in the letter that T abused just a little, but not enough to murder, I think just to hurt them.

It must have been killing her to realize that she couldn't use the meticulously manufactured evidence that she already created and possessed.

I believe when Nurmi and Samuels finally convinced her that evidence doesn't support the ninja lie, she was over the moon. The forged letters can finally be used!

Isn't it interesting that she had someone anonymously email the letters to Nurmi rather than telling him where to find them. No originals. Just uncreased PDF copies saved on computer. Never mailed. (I don't believe it but if she wrote in jail, 10 pages of letters had to be given to smuggler unfolded, and that person also never folded them until PDF copies could be made on his computer. And who can that person be.)

She handwrote those on plain white computer/copy paper with a pencil and with a lot of help from an eraser. While Travis was alive. My firm belief.

Nothing wrong with firm beliefs...

In response to why she had someone (MM) email PDF's to Nurmi annonymously...

It is interesting, I think, but I think so for perhaps a different reason. If she had indeed forged them beforehand, and sent or given them to MM as PDFs, it would have SUPPORTED her story to tell Nurmi that she'd done so, rather than to conjure up a fictious "Bob White" who couldn't be located.

That is so for two reasons. First, as Nurmi explained in his book, he felt obligated to go all out in trying to find Bob White, a search he said began the end of what had been a reasonably good relationship with the . She really really didn't want him to look for Bob White.

How much easier & better for her it would have been if she could have told Nurmi that she'd destroyed the originals, but beforehand, had made a copy of the letters & sent them to MM, which was in part why he was so willing to testify that TA had in fact been abusive.


The other benefit of having MM acknowledge being the sender is that his doing so would have removed the chief legal barrier to having the letters admitted into evidence. Copies couldn't be admitted without authentication, and MM testifying that she'd sent them to him would have served as that authentication.

As for the no creases. As I've said, I think Debbie Maran nailed it with her detailed (with pics) analysis of why she thought the letters were cut & pasted. She even analyzed spacing between words, and where periods were placed.

There was no need for the to smuggle out full page forgeries, and she had no means of doing so. What she had were index cards. Even the pedo letter wasn't extremely long- maybe 6-8 index cards worth of writing.

I have no doubt she'd have been able to smuggle out those cards, to be cut & pasted by MM (or to be fair, whomever), then copied to remove the obvious traces of that cutting & pasting.

 

[pocketaccent]

Nothing wrong with firm beliefs...

In response to why she had someone (MM) email PDF's to Nurmi annonymously...

It is interesting, I think, but I think so for perhaps a different reason. If she had indeed forged them beforehand, and sent or given them to MM as PDFs, it would have SUPPORTED her story to tell Nurmi that she'd done so, rather than to conjure up a fictious "Bob White" who couldn't be located.

That is so for two reasons. First, as Nurmi explained in his book, he felt obligated to go all out in trying to find Bob White, a search he said began the end of what had been a reasonably good relationship with the . She really really didn't want him to look for Bob White.

How much easier & better for her it would have been if she could have told Nurmi that she'd destroyed the originals, but beforehand, had made a copy of the letters & sent them to MM, which was in part why he was so willing to testify that TA had in fact been abusive.


The other benefit of having MM acknowledge being the sender is that his doing so would have removed the chief legal barrier to having the letters admitted into evidence. Copies couldn't be admitted without authentication, and MM testifying that she'd sent them to him would have served as that authentication.

As for the no creases. As I've said, I think Debbie Maran nailed it with her detailed (with pics) analysis of why she thought the letters were cut & pasted. She even analyzed spacing between words, and where periods were placed.

There was no need for the to smuggle out full page forgeries, and she had no means of doing so. What she had were index cards. Even the pedo letter wasn't extremely long- maybe 6-8 index cards worth of writing.

I have no doubt she'd have been able to smuggle out those cards, to be cut & pasted by MM (or to be fair, whomever), then copied to remove the obvious traces of that cutting & pasting.

BBM
My firm belief on pre-murder/arrest pedo letter is still very firm but I completely agree where I bolded. Why the reason for anonymity when she could have provided a perfect explanation for the letter? I need to think about this. Want to figure out why anonymity was better than a simple explanation like you said. Good brain exercise.

Plus I've added GS to my Bob White suspect list.

 

[Hope4More]

(All text information came from Beth Karas on Crime subscription website. Subscribe to her website for complete texts and more)

OK, in 2015 or 2016?, Beth Karas' moderator told me that as long as I give credit to her site as the source, I can paraphrase the content. So that's what I will do.

-May 21, 11:48pm Maria M texts she is sorry that she couldn't meet him in UT. Asks if he still wants to be friend.
11:52 pm TA says he know she is in England. Said 'LDS Linkup contacted me and I think all your friends'. He never went to UT. He knew she wasn't there and tried to call her bluff.
1155pm--Travis texts Michelle L. he needs her for a while.
11:57 pm Maria M says TA touched her and blah blah but fail sometimes.
11:59 pm TA - he forgives her but asks her to come clean and tell the truth.
May 22, 12:06 am Maria M asks what is TA's email address.
12:07 am Travis tells her.
12:15 am Maria M texts hers.
12:56 am Maria M says she is a good tour guide and invites him to England. She is glad TA didn't go to UT.
1:02 am Travis texts JA: He is not mad but he know what she did and won't talk until she admits.
JA - says she is guilty but the stuff involving him is just a fraction of whole. She is in a big mess. Need to apologize to a lot of people. Screwed the pooch. Need to call Parker Stan.

(Not in my note but I remember she also asked him to call her. He said ok. No more text after that)

Pocket, this is the post I keep returning to reply to, but then get diverted and forget.

About why TA told the what he did about LDS Linkup, and the conversations that followed.

Somewhere in that same timeframe (mid-May) TA expressed his belief that the was snooping his LDS account. Mid May (the 18th, IIRC) is also when he has that long text exchange with Regan, in which he told her that the was probably snooping them right then, as they wrote, and that he was afraid of the .

Mid-May is also when he staged the days-long NA55 act, which IMO was about knowing she'd snoop it (so getting blows in he knew would enrage her) AND trying to prove that Maria M was really the .

MariaM was supposed to call him (at some point while the NA55 texting was going on ) but didn't. I've always been convinced that TA deliberately made the NA55 texting especially outrageous and mocking and in her face because he knew if the was snooping it, she'd be too out of control raging to remember to play at being MariaM.

I think he thought he'd nailed the , but then, he never seemed able to keep hold of his knowledge of what she'd done to him, eh?

Also on May 18th, the (for multiple reasons) felt a need to document that she didn't have possession of her phone as of that day, and so reports it stolen. Silence falls between the & TA until those texts of late night May 21 into May 22.

I think it's not coincidental that he has Michelle on stand by during this texting & confrontation, and tells her he'll need her for awhile.

So, he tells "Maria" that LDS contacted him "and I think all your friends," and that he knows Maria actually lives in England.

The latter makes NO sense, and indicates IMO, that LDS in fact did not contact him. TA believed that the was posing as Maria. Believing that, he obviously knew that "Maria" didn't live in England.

Why would he confront "Maria" with the England thing, then? I think he may have because he wanted to see just how far the would go with her charade, and wanted to give her the rope to hang herself with, so to speak.

And, I think she did further expose herself by running with the lie TA presented her with- that "Maria" actually lived in England.

And, I think TA told her that LDS had contacted him AND her friends as another trap. Perhaps he had Michelle monitoring the LDS Linkup board to see if the logged on to check on the status of "Maria's" friends?

Last, there was a long gap- (days, iirc) between the May 22 texts and the 's screwing the pooch text. After the May 22 texting TA did confront the directly, by phone, about playing MariaM, and she did confess to it. TA texted Michelle about what happened immediately after the call, and told her he'd told the to get lost & stay lost, but that he doubted it would be that easy.

(Sorry about being so not succinct with this..)

All that said, I think you may have really hit on something in linking the LDS Linkup conversation with her subsequent " screwing the pooch " hook to pull TA back her way.

It isn't necessary to believe that whatever she eventually told TA about the pooch (for example- that she had impersonated other women on LinkUp, and spread lies about having had sex with TA? Impersonated TA himself?)

Whatever she told him, though, she did so by emailing it to him in that Part One of what became the May 26th extended confrontation, the email he responded to telling her she was a sociopath, and why couldn't she get off her butt to reply to his reply to that email.

 

[Hope4More]

BBM
My firm belief on pre-murder/arrest pedo letter is still very firm but I completely agree where I bolded. Why the reason for anonymity when she could have provided a perfect explanation for the letter? I need to think about this. Want to figure out why anonymity was better than a simple explanation like you said. Good brain exercise.

Plus I've added GS to my Bob White suspect list.

LOL. All these years on, isn't everything that can be written about any of this just brain exercise?

One last tidbit about the legal pickles the caused by choosing Bob White instead of MM (or whomever) to relay the letters.

The Bob White as letters vehicle led to many, many Motions and replies to Motions, and sealed JSS chamber meetings, and finally, to ultimatums by JSS that the defense spit out information about Bob White and how he came to have possession of the letters.

Nurmi said in his book that had it been up to him, he would have withdrawn his Motion to introduce the letters into evidence WEEKS before she went pro se to try to get them "authenticated."

And he all but says why: that the story he'd known for those weeks she wanted to pitch about who had/sent the letters was different than what she'd told him, and possibly the Court, earlier on (close to a year, iirc).

So many lies, which led to the magazine code smuggling, which led to her having to go pro se, and all of it leading to Nurmi knowing he couldn't introduce the letters without suborning perjury.

Simpler would indeed have been so much better. If possible. (But......).

 

[pocketaccent]

Pocket, this is the post I keep returning to reply to, but then get diverted and forget.

About why TA told the what he did about LDS Linkup, and the conversations that followed.

Somewhere in that same timeframe (mid-May) TA expressed his belief that the was snooping his LDS account. Mid May (the 18th, IIRC) is also when he has that long text exchange with Regan, in which he told her that the was probably snooping them right then, as they wrote, and that he was afraid of the .

Mid-May is also when he staged the days-long NA55 act, which IMO was about knowing she'd snoop it (so getting blows in he knew would enrage her) AND trying to prove that Maria M was really the .

MariaM was supposed to call him (at some point while the NA55 texting was going on ) but didn't. I've always been convinced that TA deliberately made the NA55 texting especially outrageous and mocking and in her face because he knew if the was snooping it, she'd be too out of control raging to remember to play at being MariaM.

I think he thought he'd nailed the , but then, he never seemed able to keep hold of his knowledge of what she'd done to him, eh?

Also on May 18th, the (for multiple reasons) felt a need to document that she didn't have possession of her phone as of that day, and so reports it stolen. Silence falls between the & TA until those texts of late night May 21 into May 22.

I think it's not coincidental that he has Michelle on stand by during this texting & confrontation, and tells her he'll need her for awhile.

So, he tells "Maria" that LDS contacted him "and I think all your friends," and that he knows Maria actually lives in England.

The latter makes NO sense, and indicates IMO, that LDS in fact did not contact him. TA believed that the was posing as Maria. Believing that, he obviously knew that "Maria" didn't live in England.

Why would he confront "Maria" with the England thing, then? I think he may have because he wanted to see just how far the would go with her charade, and wanted to give her the rope to hang herself with, so to speak.

And, I think she did further expose herself by running with the lie TA presented her with- that "Maria" actually lived in England.

And, I think TA told her that LDS had contacted him AND her friends as another trap. Perhaps he had Michelle monitoring the LDS Linkup board to see if the logged on to check on the status of "Maria's" friends?

Last, there was a long gap- (days, iirc) between the May 22 texts and the 's screwing the pooch text. After the May 22 texting TA did confront the directly, by phone, about playing MariaM, and she did confess to it. TA texted Michelle about what happened immediately after the call, and told her he'd told the to get lost & stay lost, but that he doubted it would be that easy.

(Sorry about being so not succinct with this..)

All that said, I think you may have really hit on something in linking the LDS Linkup conversation with her subsequent " screwing the pooch " hook to pull TA back her way.

It isn't necessary to believe that whatever she eventually told TA about the pooch (for example- that she had impersonated other women on LinkUp, and spread lies about having had sex with TA? Impersonated TA himself?)

Whatever she told him, though, she did so by emailing it to him in that Part One of what became the May 26th extended confrontation, the email he responded to telling her she was a sociopath, and why couldn't she get off her butt to reply to his reply to that email.

Haha, It's impossible to be succinct when sleuthing the craziness.

I remember a member at Beth's site verified that Maria M really was using a phone with England area code. This was a mystery to all of us some while ago. Still is.

Let's look at this rough timeline:

-May 13 - TA's journal: He meets a woman online. She seems too good to be true.

-May 14 - Travis texts JA if she is stalking his LDS Linkup acct under bogus ID. She denies.

-May 14 to May 15- NA55 (strange TA talked about 12 year old)

-May 17 - Gus and JA non-stop texting, Travis notices during meeting. (I think texting was Helio related or burner phone or both or maybe not. All I know is Gus hated Travis.)

-May 18 - TA and Regan text. TA afraid of the .

-May 18 - Helio stolen per journal

-Some time between May 13 to May 21, Maria M entices TA to Utah. She is pretending she is in Utah. TA doesn't go but tells her he is in Utah. (I think JA hijacked real Maria M's account.)

-May 21 -11:48 pm to 12:56 am Maria M texts with a phone with england area code to contact TA. TA: 'LDS Linkup contacted me...' , 'I know you are in England'.... they are texting on phone, no longer communicating within LDS Linkup.

-May 22, 1:02 am - TA texts JA 'I'm not mad, I know what you did'......JA 'screwed the pooch' 'need to apologize to a lot of people'.

-May 22 - New Helio arrived per journal (but she texted with TA with the stolen phone at 1:02 am before new one arrives)
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My brain (nearly scrambled) tells me JA got in a whole lot of trouble with LDS Linkup. Probably by May 17 or so. Communication matches up with JA's IP address when LDS L investigates. Charged with impersonation, fraud, hijacking, etc. Probably got kicked out indefinitely. She would have been flaming mad. No more chance to hook up with Mormon boys. Travis is the one who exposed her. Helio had to be stolen for blackmail to begin. On May 21, she gets a burner phone w/England area code to text TA (did Gus help her with this?) to trick TA- I'm really in England.

I agree that TA told her 'i know you're in England' to give her the rope to hang herself. When she didn't admit, I'm not mad text began almost right away.

In any case, JA now knows TA can expose her and her dream of meeting a rich mormon man is no more because of him.

 

[Hope4More]

Haha, It's impossible to be succinct when sleuthing the craziness.

I remember a member at Beth's site verified that Maria M really was using a phone with England area code. This was a mystery to all of us some while ago. Still is.

Let's look at this rough timeline:

-May 13 - TA's journal: He meets a woman online. She seems too good to be true.

-May 14 - Travis texts JA if she is stalking his LDS Linkup acct under bogus ID. She denies.

-May 14 to May 15- NA55 (strange TA talked about 12 year old)

-May 17 - Gus and JA non-stop texting, Travis notices during meeting. (I think texting was Helio related or burner phone or both or maybe not. All I know is Gus hated Travis.)

-May 18 - TA and Regan text. TA afraid of the .

-May 18 - Helio stolen per journal

-Some time between May 13 to May 21, Maria M entices TA to Utah. She is pretending she is in Utah. TA doesn't go but tells her he is in Utah. (I think JA hijacked real Maria M's account.)

-May 21 -11:48 pm to 12:56 am Maria M texts with a phone with england area code to contact TA. TA: 'LDS Linkup contacted me...' , 'I know you are in England'.... they are texting on phone, no longer communicating within LDS Linkup.

-May 22, 1:02 am - TA texts JA 'I'm not mad, I know what you did'......JA 'screwed the pooch' 'need to apologize to a lot of people'.

-May 22 - New Helio arrived per journal (but she texted with TA with the stolen phone at 1:02 am before new one arrives)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My brain (nearly scrambled) tells me JA got in a whole lot of trouble with LDS Linkup. Probably by May 17 or so. Communication matches up with JA's IP address when LDS L investigates. Charged with impersonation, fraud, hijacking, etc. Probably got kicked out indefinitely. She would have been flaming mad. No more chance to hook up with Mormon boys. Travis is the one who exposed her. Helio had to be stolen for blackmail to begin. On May 21, she gets a burner phone w/England area code to text TA (did Gus help her with this?) to trick TA- I'm really in England.

I agree that TA told her 'i know you're in England' to give her the rope to hang herself. When she didn't admit, I'm not mad text began almost right away.

In any case, JA now knows TA can expose her and her dream of meeting a rich mormon man is no more because of him.

I really don't believe TA reported her to LDS LinkUp. Just wasn't his MO.

I didn't believe I'd ever, ever, read the May 26 chat again, but Pocket, just for you I did just that. :O

The chronology of exchanges in every online version of the chat is completely out of order.

It's been a very long time, and I long ago deleted my reordering of the chat (based on court testimony & Beth's PP2 notes).

But, IIRC, the overall sequence went like this:

1. sent text she'd screwed the pooch, to call her. (May 21-22).

2. TA responded- put it in writing.

3. She refused, saying she wasn't going to incriminate herself in writing.

4. TA steadfastly refused to talk with her until she puts whatever she wants to tell him in writing.

5. The most recent act of hostility/invasion/insanity by the that he had dealt with was her pretending to be MariaM, which he had already forced her to confess (by phone, on May 22). He told her then, by phone, that he wanted her out of his life.

6. The sent him an email (not text) sometime on May 25. Whatever was in the email, it solicited a reply (email) from TA. Neither of those emails survived, suggesting the deleted both hers and his at some point.

7. The May 26 "chat" begins with TA calling her a sociopath, and with his rage that she hasn't replied to his email.

8. As even PP2's holdout juror acknowledged, the toyed with/manipulated TA throughout the "chat". At the onset, she does so by telling him she is in the process of sending him an email, but can't because (X, Y, and Z), each ridiculous excuse infuriating TA still further.

9. While he waits for her to send it, he mocks what he anticipates she'll send, repeatedly calls her a liar, begs her to simply tell him the truth, demands she tell that she hates him, tells her he isn't angry with her about sex (because, he says, he shares responsibility for that), but that it is her non-stop lying, even after she's been caught, that he can't tolerate.

10. The only "clues" in this (longest) part of the chat:

* he says- why did you try to "cover it up" after you knew you'd been caught?

* he says- And even after you'd been caught, you went ahead and tried to send that (whatever it was) "down the pipeline" after you had logged into MY FACEBOOK (emphasis mine).

* he says- I know you are going to do it again. You've done it & been caught "over 30" times. I forgive you and you just do it again. If you want my passwords (?) just ask for them.

* he says- "just go ahead and do what you are going to do," because "NOTHING YOU FOUND OUT" (was bad enough) to stop you from doing it. "

* he says- we both know that what you tell me in that email will be a lie (pretty sure he means he is sure she'll pull one of her tried & true stunts of saying she's found out something about him she wouldn't have known if she hadn't spied on him/snooped his SM, and she found out because someone (who doesn't exist) just happened to tell her).

*he says- why do you keep taking away what belongs to me?


11. She sends him the email. He reads it and says- this is what took you so long to write? Whatever was in the email isn't what he expected, and seems to be all about her (he tells her he doesn't want to hear her sob stories).

12. She's playing with him, because she still has that part 2 to tell him, and she still isn't going to put it in writing.

13. Towards the end of the chat TA tells her- I give up. You win. She, IMO, plays her next to last card at this point, by suggesting that she's ready to come clean as he'd been demanding of her, that everything he had said about her was true.


She says she has something she wants to tell him, but says "it will piss you off even more."


14. Travis abruptly changes his tone, and tells her- call me. It should feel good to you to come clean, "Right? Right? Right?" And that he believes it will be the "first real truth you've ever told me."


15. The GMail chat ends there.

16. Sky has said that the sent an email to TA after what had to have been that phone call. In it the repeats that she did not slash his tires, and that she would be calling an attorney.

 

[Hope4More]

Reading all that, and considering the chronology/sequence, I don't think anything LDS LinkUp related was central to what was going on.

She'd done something after May 22 to "cover up" that she'd pretended to be MariaM, and that did piss him off.

But, more central seems to be that she's told him she knows of something incriminating about him that's out there, and he's waiting to hear what it is, though he believes it will be the same kind of BS she's pulled on him before.

It isn't. She finally tells him what it is in that phone call, and what she tells him is the final straw for him. My guess now is what it has been for years...that the something incriminating is the sex tape, on her " stolen" phone.

 

[Hope4More]

(Snipped...)

Her appeal is due to be presented this Wednesday. I assume it won’t be public?

Odds are 99.9% that you assume correctly.

's appellate attorneys filed a motion on May 11 to have their opening brief sealed. There is no reason to hope or believe the COA will deny the request.

That means the State's opening brief will be under seal too, as will both side's replies to opening briefs.

Right now, the earliest that opening briefs & replies will be completed isn't until the end of this year. Then there is a wait for the COA to take on the appeal. Then a panel of 3 COA judges will gather to review & discuss her appeal. Then they'll think about it for awhile, then rule, then they or clerks will write an extended analysis, point by point, of every issue raised in the appeal and the legal basis for their ruling on each point.

THEN their ruling will be made public . Next year. Likely a full year from now. And by then only if some other bizarro complication doesn't further delay the process.

 

[pocketaccent]

I really don't believe TA reported her to LDS LinkUp. Just wasn't his MO.

I didn't believe I'd ever, ever, read the May 26 chat again, but Pocket, just for you I did just that. :O

The chronology of exchanges in every online version of the chat is completely out of order.

It's been a very long time, and I long ago deleted my reordering of the chat (based on court testimony & Beth's PP2 notes).

But, IIRC, the overall sequence went like this:

1. sent text she'd screwed the pooch, to call her. (May 21-22).

2. TA responded- put it in writing.

3. She refused, saying she wasn't going to incriminate herself in writing.

4. TA steadfastly refused to talk with her until she puts whatever she wants to tell him in writing.

5. The most recent act of hostility/invasion/insanity by the that he had dealt with was her pretending to be MariaM, which he had already forced her to confess (by phone, on May 22). He told her then, by phone, that he wanted her out of his life.

6. The sent him an email (not text) sometime on May 25. Whatever was in the email, it solicited a reply (email) from TA. Neither of those emails survived, suggesting the deleted both hers and his at some point.

7. The May 26 "chat" begins with TA calling her a sociopath, and with his rage that she hasn't replied to his email.

8. As even PP2's holdout juror acknowledged, the toyed with/manipulated TA throughout the "chat". At the onset, she does so by telling him she is in the process of sending him an email, but can't because (X, Y, and Z), each ridiculous excuse infuriating TA still further.

9. While he waits for her to send it, he mocks what he anticipates she'll send, repeatedly calls her a liar, begs her to simply tell him the truth, demands she tell that she hates him, tells her he isn't angry with her about sex (because, he says, he shares responsibility for that), but that it is her non-stop lying, even after she's been caught, that he can't tolerate.

10. The only "clues" in this (longest) part of the chat:

* he says- why did you try to "cover it up" after you knew you'd been caught?

* he says- And even after you'd been caught, you went ahead and tried to send that (whatever it was) "down the pipeline" after you had logged into MY FACEBOOK (emphasis mine).

* he says- I know you are going to do it again. You've done it & been caught "over 30" times. I forgive you and you just do it again. If you want my passwords (?) just ask for them.

* he says- "just go ahead and do what you are going to do," because "NOTHING YOU FOUND OUT" (was bad enough) to stop you from doing it. "

* he says- we both know that what you tell me in that email will be a lie (pretty sure he means he is sure she'll pull one of her tried & true stunts of saying she's found out something about him she wouldn't have known if she hadn't spied on him/snooped his SM, and she found out because someone (who doesn't exist) just happened to tell her).

*he says- why do you keep taking away what belongs to me?


11. She sends him the email. He reads it and says- this is what took you so long to write? Whatever was in the email isn't what he expected, and seems to be all about her (he tells her he doesn't want to hear her sob stories).

12. She's playing with him, because she still has that part 2 to tell him, and she still isn't going to put it in writing.

13. Towards the end of the chat TA tells her- I give up. You win. She, IMO, plays her next to last card at this point, by suggesting that she's ready to come clean as he'd been demanding of her, that everything he had said about her was true.


She says she has something she wants to tell him, but says "it will piss you off even more."


14. Travis abruptly changes his tone, and tells her- call me. It should feel good to you to come clean, "Right? Right? Right?" And that he believes it will be the "first real truth you've ever told me."


15. The GMail chat ends there.

16. Sky has said that the sent an email to TA after what had to have been that phone call. In it the repeats that she did not slash his tires, and that she would be calling an attorney.

Reading all that, and considering the chronology/sequence, I don't think anything LDS LinkUp related was central to what was going on.

She'd done something after May 22 to "cover up" that she'd pretended to be MariaM, and that did piss him off.

But, more central seems to be that she's told him she knows of something incriminating about him that's out there, and he's waiting to hear what it is, though he believes it will be the same kind of BS she's pulled on him before.

It isn't. She finally tells him what it is in that phone call, and what she tells him is the final straw for him. My guess now is what it has been for years...that the something incriminating is the sex tape, on her " stolen" phone.

I don't disagree with this interpretation. But I agee with my interpretation more. lol.

Remember on June 3, Travis asking Brooke who knows about them on facebook and texting each other? And he wondered if others told her something about him?
This is after June 2, 1 hour phone with the .