Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

[Hope4More]

I'm not a bit surprised and it crossed my mind earlier but didn't want to jinx anything my mentioning it. In lieu of throwing a tantrum (which I actually sorta feel like lol), I'll just grab my Linus blanket, pop my thumb in my mouth and wait them out.

About the PCR, that goes before JSS right? I do think that's what she's pinning her hopes (and money) on but it's beyond me why she thinks JSS would even remotely consider granting her a hair's width of relief, much less a new trial.

Yes, JSS decides whether or not to even hear out 's PCR.

Why would the be optimistic about her chances?

1. Because she's the

2. From her point of view, she's managed to get her defense attorney disbarred and to subject her prosecutor to non-stop, possibly career-ending jeopardy before the AZ Bar.

3. It's a win-win for her. She's getting revenge on both, worse case, and best case, she's throwing around so much mud maybe enough will stick to force at least a PCR hearing. From her POV.

 

[pocketaccent]

IMO, the was absolutely sure she could sell the ninjas lie to a jury, and remained sure she could until Nurmi's efforts to convince her otherwise (summer 2009-early 2010) caused her to reconsider.

Why did she, so soon after her arrest, invent the lie about TA being physically abusive to her?

I don't believe she was thinking about a plan B self defense lie at that point. Until she spoke with Karp in February 2010, her lie of physical abuse was that he had hurt her exactly twice, and the context she gave was the same for both: Travis became physically violent out of jealousy, after she had brought up the name of another man.

The violent because jealous lie was entirely consistent with the efforts she made after the Flores phone interviews to manufacture evidence countering the suspicion of her by so many that Flores had relayed to her in those calls.

(She had also heard about those suspicions from Ryan, and had no doubt experienced significant hostility from many of TA's friends while she was in Mesa for TA's memorial service on June 16, iirc).

Her anger at what she was told was being said about her by TA's family & friends was evident in her letter to TA's family.

Her anger about what was being said of her grew, quickly and obviously. She wrote her assinine "manifesto" a month later, specifically in response to what "ignorant" folks were saying about her online & elsewhere.

Her portrayal of TA was already becoming sharper-edged and less flattering, but again, literally every lie she told about him in the manifesto was oriented towards describing Travis as the one who was obsessed enough with her that he invaded her privacy and couldn't let go.

So, physical abuse yes, but until February 2010 (at least), an accusation that IMO was still about supporting her lie she had nothing to do with his death because she had no reason to kill him.

Think about what changed after Samuels didn't deliver a trial-ready reason for her fog. To claim fog, she had to gin up another lie, or double down on an existing one.

She first doubled down on the existing lie about physical violence. That won her the fog, but created another, obvious problem. If Travis physically abused her dozens and dozens and dozens of times, didn't that give her a motive to kill him?

Now consider the position the was in about the lack of any evidence of ANY physical abuse, and the fact that even as late as the time of her interviews with DeMarte- many months after she claimed self-defense -she STILL had not linked the pedo lie to her lie about DV.

I think it's important to remember what a transparent, stupid liar the always has been. Remember the email Sky describes that she sent to Travis to convince him to ask her to move to Mesa? Yah. A stalker sent her an email telling her she was beautiful and talented and Travis didn't deserve her, but also that Travis couldn't protect her from being stalked or harmed because he lived so far away, in Mesa.

Stupid. And so obvious that Sky said she burst into laughter when Travis told her about the email.

Same thing can be said about boxing herself in with lies manufactured to prove she wasn't there and anyway, had no reason to kill him. Ditto the ninjas. Ditto her lies to Karp about DV.

Think about the absurdity of her pedo lie in general, and not just of the pedo lie so recklessly attached to January 21.

Her pre-pedo lies and manufacturing of evidence were all about TA being promiscuous, a serial cheater & flirt, sex-crazed, obsessed with her goddess body and self, and half-crazed with jealousy at the very mention or thought of her with another man.

How, exactly, was her accusation about pedo consistent with her first pack of lies about TA? It wasn't, and couldn't be made to be- as Nurmi, defender of pedophiles and sexual deviants has to have known.

She couldn't jettison her first pack of lies about Travis, and didn't want to, because she would never (and never has) admitted that Travis rejected her. Repeatedly, for that matter.

So, in her pedo lie, TA repeatedly seeks out sex with her because having "normal" sex helps squelch his deviant pedo desires.

In her pedo lie, she consents to have sex, repeatedly, with a man she knows is a pedophile, because she the spiritually superior goddess is benevolent ("I know you won't judge me, you never have." In forged 1/21 letter), and because she is willing to sacrifice her own spiritual well being in order to save little boys from TA.

That tied to a tree fantasy and her own "dirty little school girl" role and her post-murder journal lies about other fantasies past and future she had so carefully manufactured to make Travis appear the sex-crazed pursuer?

Right. To square those lies with the pedo lie, she repackages the original "fantasies"
as "fantasy reenactments" she engaged in with Travis to help him contain his pedo urges.

The pedo lie was way more evil than her ninjas lie, but it was also far more stupid and unbelievable.

I keep circling back to forgeries post-arrest because bottom-line, I see that timing as most consistent with the overall timeline, and as significant, with her long-term pattern of lying and MO of creating half-arsed lies to cover her lies, all the while being convinced she would be believed.

Because she lied so much (It is not a good way to live, really), I need to make bullet points of her lying timeline in order for me to see clearer picture.

-Her journal - No violence. T is jealous. wanted police to find them. All 3 of them.

-Helio (April 7, 2008 - May 17, 2008) - No violence. Contained sexual fantasies, jealousy, obsession with her, anger, school girl (I think once ~early May), sex tape ....Intended to harm alive Travis. did not want police to find it.

After arrest:
-Interrogation - I think she thought about going self defense - 'I just don't want to hurt anybody. I don't think I can avoid it though.' 'There's so many things that I want to say.' 'What happens if I give you a confession?'

-letter to family - 2 violence. T is jealous.
-manifesto - 2 violence. T is jealous. T couldn't let go of her.
-48 hours - Some violence. Bruised body parts

2010:
Pressed by Nurmi to drop ninjas
Karp - a lot of violence

By April - Pedo letters. Pedo letters are not consistent with the contents of Helio: They are not consistent because the pedo history is older than the Helio.

The Pedo lies cover Nov 2006 to March 2008 (the latest we know of), the period she was threatened by a troubled pedophile and endured physical abuse.

Helio lies cover April 2008 to May 17, 2008, after she runs away from him and Travis just doesn't let her move on. I think she begged Travis to come visit in ~May 5 in order to manufacture a 'new' physical abuse incident.

Is this why Nurmi receives BOTH the White letters and the Helio? To cover the whole time period.

There is one item in question that might support Hope's belief. She could have manufactured however many pedo confessions by sending forgery texts to herself, like how she did the rape fantasy texts. She knew how to do that but didn't.

 

[geevee]

Yes, JSS decides whether or not to even hear out 's PCR.

Why would the be optimistic about her chances?

1. Because she's the

2. From her point of view, she's managed to get her defense attorney disbarred and to subject her prosecutor to non-stop, possibly career-ending jeopardy before the AZ Bar.

3. It's a win-win for her. She's getting revenge on both, worse case, and best case, she's throwing around so much mud maybe enough will stick to force at least a PCR hearing. From her POV.

Yes, and she gets to keep her name in the news, which is likely paramount for her. What she's doing to JM though should earn her the DP, or Life Row, whichever.

I just want everything unsealed so we can all know as much of the truth as has been gathered and we can finally bury her in the past.

Travis will live on fondly in many people's memories but she'll just be a squished dead spider you kick into the corner, never to give another moment's thought to.

 

[Hope4More]

Well, signing up to BK to reread the texts & print them out seems to be sending me down some rabbit holes. One in particular is gigantic (sorry, Geevee & Pocket, but I think they did have sex that day), some are minor but enough to make me wonder.

Here's a minor one, about a pair of texts I noticed before and thought odd, but never really plugged them in.

The exact same text, word for word, punctuation identical, was sent 2 times. The first was sent about 8:15ish AM on June 3. The second was sent at 4:00PM on June 4.

The sender is simply noted as #41 in the text logs, and didn't include his or her name in the text.

The identical texts say (paraphrased): "Hey, Travis. I'm thinking about moving out there. Do you have any rooms available, and if not, do you know someplace I can rent?"

I thought when I first read them that the first one was sent by the , and the second was either sent by her accidentally, or was evidence that the hadn't sent the first, and it was just coincidental that someone was asking Travis the day before he was murdered just how many folks could be expected to be there at his house.

So, I looked up Brewer's testimony about when the was at his house on June 3rd. Bingo. She was at his house at the time the text was sent, and according to Brewer, had used his computer to"check her emails."

This after spending the night at MM's, and didn't she have a laptop of her own?

Maybe she didn't just need his computer, but his phone?

So, if she did send that text on the 3rd, why was the same text sent to TA on June 4, at 4PM? That he didn't answer?

Am I too deep in a rabbit hole if I wonder whether or not MM had anything to do with those texts? JM suggested MM was with the when she went to Brewer's house......

 

[geevee]

Well, signing up to BK to reread the texts & print them out seems to be sending me down some rabbit holes. One in particular is gigantic (sorry, Geevee & Pocket, but I think they did have sex that day), some are minor but enough to make me wonder.

Here's a minor one, about a pair of texts I noticed before and thought odd, but never really plugged them in.

The exact same text, word for word, punctuation identical, was sent 2 times. The first was sent about 8:15ish AM on June 3. The second was sent at 4:00PM on June 4.

The sender is simply noted as #41 in the text logs, and didn't include his or her name in the text.

The identical texts say (paraphrased): "Hey, Travis. I'm thinking about moving out there. Do you have any rooms available, and if not, do you know someplace I can rent?"

I thought when I first read them that the first one was sent by the , and the second was either sent by her accidentally, or was evidence that the hadn't sent the first, and it was just coincidental that someone was asking Travis the day before he was murdered just how many folks could be expected to be there at his house.

So, I looked up Brewer's testimony about when the was at his house on June 3rd. Bingo. She was at his house at the time the text was sent, and according to Brewer, had used his computer to"check her emails."

This after spending the night at MM's, and didn't she have a laptop of her own?

Maybe she didn't just need his computer, but his phone?

So, if she did send that text on the 3rd, why was the same text sent to TA on June 4, at 4PM? That he didn't answer?

Am I too deep in a rabbit hole if I wonder whether or not MM had anything to do with those texts? JM suggested MM was with the when she went to Brewer's house......

Yes, she not only had her own laptop but testified she had it with her at Travis' (am I remembering it right that was when JM was grilling her about when she took her things down to her car?). Wasn't that laptop's hard drive also smashed and nothing was able to be retrieved from it?

I do recall hearing about those two texts, it wouldn't surprise if the first was her trying to get info from T on who actually was living in his house before she arrived the next morning but the second identical one coming in late that afternoon is curious. I wonder if anyone (Melendez etc.) tried to figure out who or where the sender was.

Looking forward to hearing about what you've found to make you think sex occurred that day.

 

[Hope4More]

Because she lied so much (It is not a good way to live, really), I need to make bullet points of her lying timeline in order for me to see clearer picture.

-Her journal - No violence. T is jealous. wanted police to find them. All 3 of them.

-Helio (April 7, 2008 - May 17, 2008) - No violence. Contained sexual fantasies, jealousy, obsession with her, anger, school girl (I think once ~early May), sex tape ....Intended to harm alive Travis. did not want police to find it.

After arrest:
-Interrogation - I think she thought about going self defense - 'I just don't want to hurt anybody. I don't think I can avoid it though.' 'There's so many things that I want to say.' 'What happens if I give you a confession?'

-letter to family - 2 violence. T is jealous.
-manifesto - 2 violence. T is jealous. T couldn't let go of her.
-48 hours - Some violence. Bruised body parts

2010:
Pressed by Nurmi to drop ninjas
Karp - a lot of violence

By April - Pedo letters. Pedo letters are not consistent with the contents of Helio: They are not consistent because the pedo history is older than the Helio.

The Pedo lies cover Nov 2006 to March 2008 (the latest we know of), the period she was threatened by a troubled pedophile and endured physical abuse.

Helio lies cover April 2008 to May 17, 2008, after she runs away from him and Travis just doesn't let her move on. I think she begged Travis to come visit in ~May 5 in order to manufacture a 'new' physical abuse incident.

Is this why Nurmi receives BOTH the White letters and the Helio? To cover the whole time period.

There is one item in question that might support Hope's belief. She could have manufactured however many pedo confessions by sending forgery texts to herself, like how she did the rape fantasy texts. She knew how to do that but didn't.

Going sidewise for a reply. Apply if applicable.

About the "sex tape" of May 10, 2008, and the May 2 tree'scapade IMs she sent to herself. IMO, the first key question to ask is: who if anyone did she originally intend to have hear/read these things, and did circumstances cause her to change her original plan?

1. It's very unlikely she originally intended to tell Travis directly what all that was on the phone, not least because she would be admitting to taping phone sex without his permission AND manufacturing sex fantasies & sending them to herself. Telling him those things flat out would be to straight forwardly blackmail him, thus alienating him completely & forever. For what in return? Makes no sense.

2. It's unlikely she manufactured stuff on the Helio for LE to find. After all, she didn't have the phone "found" until late June, 2010, after filing an affirmative defense, her 3rd lie. In any case, IMO the has demonstrated repeatedly that she is incapable of pulling off ANY long- term strategic plan (part of BPD symptomology).

3. Did she originally intend to use the phone to somehow destroy Travis? If that was her plan and she was already thinking pedo, then yes, it's difficult to understand why she didn't manufacture pedo IM's.

If she meant what was on the phone -all of it, as a package, somehow--to destroy him while he was still alive, sorry, one of my non-negotiables is that I don't accept she was delusional enough to think anyone would believe that vile lie....and no pedo was on there in any case.

If she meant to use what was on the phone -again, all of it- to destroy his reputation after killing him, then she had decided to kill him by May 18, the day she filed a police report that it was stolen, and whatever her original intent (if it had changed), she didn't include pedo or physical abuse.

Based on what the does and says about herself sexually on the recording, I find it nearly impossible to believe she ever intended for anyone else to ever hear what was on her Helio, and if she didn't want anyone to hear what was on the phone, how would anyone have read the May 2 tree'scapade IM's she sent herself?

4. One possible scenario makes all those round pegs fit into one square hole:

* The May 2 IM's were manufactured to "accidentally" forward to Mimi. The phone wasn't actually stolen, so it's possible she kept them in reserve..until plans changed.

* TA didn't return from CA until May 9th. By then, his communications with her had turned very hostile, in between short periods of forgiving her.

May 9 and his response to her Steve Carroll psycho provocations were a turning point, IMO.

I think by late night May 9 she had a plan in mind about how to use a sex tape against him. Can't forward a sex tape accidentally, so she had something more creative in mind.

Again, though, she actually did report the phone stolen on May 18. Why do that if she had any intention of using what was on the phone against him?

Because she knew Travis mistrusted her enough to not believe her when she told him the phone was stolen? Because she had to document she didn't have the phone in her possession between May 18 and May 22? For both reasons, whether or not the two reasons are connected?

Because, perhaps (a rerun of one of my scenarios), to set up what seems likely to have played out: an urgent email sent to Travis on May 25 about having to go to her bishop, stat, to confess sex, and the impossible, truly evil quandary she thought that put him in.

(No pedo involved anywhere in that scenario; it just doesn't fit in).

PS to Pocket: I've genuinely & thoroughly considered your pre-murder pedo theory, both when letters were forged & whether she had already thought of using pedo against him in some way. For awhile there, if you'll recall, I actually thought you might well be right.

I'm back to my original belief that pedo lies came post-murder. My replies to you about this, and recapitulations of what I've previously thought and posted, aren't intended to try to persuade you. We don't know what we don't know, and we do know we don't have enough info to know with certainty when she forged the letters.

Everything after that is speculation and theory, which you know is my favorite past-time. It's not necessarily yours, though, so please feel free to tell me when and if you're done with this rabbit hole.

 

[salberg7]

I cannot believe the killer managed to get another concession. How can that happen? How ridiculous!
I too feel like I could have a tantrum! But at least is still where she needs to be.
How can this be? Can’t they just say no? The state already ruled the brief would be unsealed and gave them another deadline. The document can’t be that large her appeal team couldn’t meet this deadline. I just can’t see the waste of state resources cowtowing to a convicted felon.

 

[pocketaccent]

Going sidewise for a reply. Apply if applicable.

About the "sex tape" of May 10, 2008, and the May 2 tree'scapade IMs she sent to herself. IMO, the first key question to ask is: who if anyone did she originally intend to have hear/read these things, and did circumstances cause her to change her original plan?

1. It's very unlikely she originally intended to tell Travis directly what all that was on the phone, not least because she would be admitting to taping phone sex without his permission AND manufacturing sex fantasies & sending them to herself. Telling him those things flat out would be to straight forwardly blackmail him, thus alienating him completely & forever. For what in return? Makes no sense.

2. It's unlikely she manufactured stuff on the Helio for LE to find. After all, she didn't have the phone "found" until late June, 2010, after filing an affirmative defense, her 3rd lie. In any case, IMO the has demonstrated repeatedly that she is incapable of pulling off ANY long- term strategic plan (part of BPD symptomology).

3. Did she originally intend to use the phone to somehow destroy Travis? If that was her plan and she was already thinking pedo, then yes, it's difficult to understand why she didn't manufacture pedo IM's.

If she meant what was on the phone -all of it, as a package, somehow--to destroy him while he was still alive, sorry, one of my non-negotiables is that I don't accept she was delusional enough to think anyone would believe that vile lie....and no pedo was on there in any case.

If she meant to use what was on the phone -again, all of it- to destroy his reputation after killing him, then she had decided to kill him by May 18, the day she filed a police report that it was stolen, and whatever her original intent (if it had changed), she didn't include pedo or physical abuse.

Based on what the does and says about herself sexually on the recording, I find it nearly impossible to believe she ever intended for anyone else to ever hear what was on her Helio, and if she didn't want anyone to hear what was on the phone, how would anyone have read the May 2 tree'scapade IM's she sent herself?

4. One possible scenario makes all those round pegs fit into one square hole:

* The May 2 IM's were manufactured to "accidentally" forward to Mimi. The phone wasn't actually stolen, so it's possible she kept them in reserve..until plans changed.

* TA didn't return from CA until May 9th. By then, his communications with her had turned very hostile, in between short periods of forgiving her.

May 9 and his response to her Steve Carroll psycho provocations were a turning point, IMO.

I think by late night May 9 she had a plan in mind about how to use a sex tape against him. Can't forward a sex tape accidentally, so she had something more creative in mind.

Again, though, she actually did report the phone stolen on May 18. Why do that if she had any intention of using what was on the phone against him?

Because she knew Travis mistrusted her enough to not believe her when she told him the phone was stolen? Because she had to document she didn't have the phone in her possession between May 18 and May 22? For both reasons, whether or not the two reasons are connected?

Because, perhaps (a rerun of one of my scenarios), to set up what seems likely to have played out: an urgent email sent to Travis on May 25 about having to go to her bishop, stat, to confess sex, and the impossible, truly evil quandary she thought that put him in.

(No pedo involved anywhere in that scenario; it just doesn't fit in).

PS to Pocket: I've genuinely & thoroughly considered your pre-murder pedo theory, both when letters were forged & whether she had already thought of using pedo against him in some way. For awhile there, if you'll recall, I actually thought you might well be right.

I'm back to my original belief that pedo lies came post-murder. My replies to you about this, and recapitulations of what I've previously thought and posted, aren't intended to try to persuade you. We don't know what we don't know, and we do know we don't have enough info to know with certainty when she forged the letters.

Everything after that is speculation and theory, which you know is my favorite past-time. It's not necessarily yours, though, so please feel free to tell me when and if you're done with this rabbit hole.

Dear Hope, like I said a few weeks ago, it really doesn't matter to me, whether the lies are pre or post. She is vile and evil either way.
But yes! let's move on to another rabbit hole. I too love speculating!

 

[pocketaccent]

Yes, she not only had her own laptop but testified she had it with her at Travis' (am I remembering it right that was when JM was grilling her about when she took her things down to her car?). Wasn't that laptop's hard drive also smashed and nothing was able to be retrieved from it?

I do recall hearing about those two texts, it wouldn't surprise if the first was her trying to get info from T on who actually was living in his house before she arrived the next morning but the second identical one coming in late that afternoon is curious. I wonder if anyone (Melendez etc.) tried to figure out who or where the sender was.

Looking forward to hearing about what you've found to make you think sex occurred that day.

I wonder if she had a burner phone.
Why then is she texting a dead man?
Speculating!!

 

[geevee]

The only addition/comment I'd like to make to Hope's fine puzzle solving is that the May 10th date of the Helio sex recording(s) makes perfect sense in that scenario, TA comes back on May 9th, very p.o.'ed at her, she slips him the accidental Steve Carroll text and he's really angry now, so she pulls snippets of their recorded conversations and saves them on the Helio with the date of May 10 (probably early a.m. after his reaction to the phony text), ratcheting up the ammo against him.

 

[geevee]

I wonder if she had a burner phone.
Why then is she texting a dead man?
Speculating!!

For the same reason she left a vm for him later that night? lol I wonder too, given her closeness with Gus the man with the phones.

 

[Hope4More]

Dear Hope, like I said a few weeks ago, it really doesn't matter to me, whether the lies are pre or post. She is vile and evil either way.
But yes! let's move on to another rabbit hole. I too love speculating!

Deal. But one last thought.

Whether or not your theory is accurate, what is definitely true is that you've come with some genuinely original and brand new thoughts & points, which at this point years on and thousands of sleuthers' hours later, I would not have believed possible.

Your doing so has drawn me back in- which before you did, I absolutely knew was impossible.

What IMO is both neat and ironic is that many of the spanking new points you've made in support of pre-murder pedo are points I haven't considered, but when I do, I conclude are really great insights into the pedo forgeries, but that for me actually support post-murder forging.

Your last post is a great example of that. Wow. Yes, it makes real sense that she would think such a timeline & story convincing: TA the deviant & pervert & abusive hypocrite from November 2006 through when she fled Mesa to save herself, then TA the jealous one who couldn't let go. Explains everything, absolves her of everything.

But flipped upside down, for me that chronology provides major clues about the story she wanted to tell had the letters been introduced, and why she forged what she did post-murder, post- arrest, and before she and the DT had access to the text and email and phone records which made the letters' content and her story line unbelievable.

Done. ?

 

[Hope4More]

Yes, she not only had her own laptop but testified she had it with her at Travis' (am I remembering it right that was when JM was grilling her about when she took her things down to her car?). Wasn't that laptop's hard drive also smashed and nothing was able to be retrieved from it?

I do recall hearing about those two texts, it wouldn't surprise if the first was her trying to get info from T on who actually was living in his house before she arrived the next morning but the second identical one coming in late that afternoon is curious. I wonder if anyone (Melendez etc.) tried to figure out who or where the sender was.

Looking forward to hearing about what you've found to make you think sex occurred that day.

Spoiler alert: I haven't found anything new at all that directly relates to sex on June 4.

I haven't even thought up a whole new theory about anything, sad to say.

What struck me as I reread the texts after a break of almost 2 years (!) are the psychological dynamics of what unfolded in May, looking at it from TRAVIS's point of view, instead of trying to puzzle out the 's plots & intent.

Brief-brief: I think it possible Travis inadvertently gave the proverbial key to manipulating him on June 4th in the text he sent to "MariaM" () on May 22, and that he was ripe for that manipulation because of the intense introspection & self reckoning he was experiencing in May.

Lots of typing up texts and cut & pasting other stuff to sythesize...more hunting & gathering than bunny hole exploring, actually.

 

[RickshawFan]

Maybe sent that second text posing as a renter because she was trying to find out if TA was home, and she wasn't in his house yet or at that particular moment.

And TA didn't respond because he was out for a bike ride (followed by the shower?)?

 

[RickshawFan]

Something that pocketaccent said upthread caught my attention: if manufactured the pedo letters in jail, she must have had T's letters (journal pages) sent to her.

How's this?

They might not have been caught by the sensors since they were only signed T?

Then she got rid of T's letters somehow, got extra scrutiny because she'd tried to get the 3x5's out of the jail, and then wanted to manufacture the final pedo letter(s) that isn't successfully counterfeited because she no longer had TA's writing or, indeed, the pedo letters she'd already written.

 

[pocketaccent]

Deal. But one last thought.

Whether or not your theory is accurate, what is definitely true is that you've come with some genuinely original and brand new thoughts & points, which at this point years on and thousands of sleuthers' hours later, I would not have believed possible.

Your doing so has drawn me back in- which before you did, I absolutely knew was impossible.

What IMO is both neat and ironic is that many of the spanking new points you've made in support of pre-murder pedo are points I haven't considered, but when I do, I conclude are really great insights into the pedo forgeries, but that for me actually support post-murder forging.

Your last post is a great example of that. Wow. Yes, it makes real sense that she would think such a timeline & story convincing: TA the deviant & pervert & abusive hypocrite from November 2006 through when she fled Mesa to save herself, then TA the jealous one who couldn't let go. Explains everything, absolves her of everything.

But flipped upside down, for me that chronology provides major clues about the story she wanted to tell had the letters been introduced, and why she forged what she did post-murder, post- arrest, and before she and the DT had access to the text and email and phone records which made the letters' content and her story line unbelievable.

Done. ?

Thank you, Hope.
I'm so glad that by doing this pre/post determining exercise, you've gained a brand new insights on this case and into the minds of BPD afflicted criminal. Then the exercise was beneficial and worth the time and effort.

Please go and give your DH a great big hug. He deserves thousands more though.

 

[geevee]

Spoiler alert: I haven't found anything new at all that directly relates to sex on June 4.

I haven't even thought up a whole new theory about anything, sad to say.

What struck me as I reread the texts after a break of almost 2 years (!) are the psychological dynamics of what unfolded in May, looking at it from TRAVIS's point of view, instead of trying to puzzle out the 's plots & intent.

Brief-brief: I think it possible Travis inadvertently gave the proverbial key to manipulating him on June 4th in the text he sent to "MariaM" () on May 22, and that he was ripe for that manipulation because of the intense introspection & self reckoning he was experiencing in May.

Lots of typing up texts and cut & pasting other stuff to sythesize...more hunting & gathering than bunny hole exploring, actually.

I don't have the insight you do (texts, journals, etc.) so I can understand getting a different perspective reading through all of those, esp. at that critical time in his life. I still find it very hard to believe he would break what must have been dire promises to himself to not let her back into his life in any way, but the introspection may have made him vulnerable. But...I don't think he slept with her. lol

 

[geevee]

Maybe sent that second text posing as a renter because she was trying to find out if TA was home, and she wasn't in his house yet or at that particular moment.

And TA didn't respond because he was out for a bike ride (followed by the shower?)?

Yes! I was thinking yesterday (again) how much the series of pics looked like the person taking them was not standing there shooting like he knew they were there, not until the turning surprised one, I even went to YT and looked at them.

How neatly it would fit if she didn't even come into the house until after 4:00, he was already in the shower, she shoots until he notices her, she does something that makes him sit down hard, banging his nose on his knee, and shortly thereafter, well, we know. Wasn't the bike lying askew in the garage or am I misremembering?

 

[Hope4More]

TrialWatcher- are we having a "Conversation"? Maybe check to see?

 

[Hope4More]

I don't have the insight you do (texts, journals, etc.) so I can understand getting a different perspective reading through all of those, esp. at that critical time in his life. I still find it very hard to believe he would break what must have been dire promises to himself to not let her back into his life in any way, but the introspection may have made him vulnerable. But...I don't think he slept with her. lol

Sister Geevee, I am well aware that pigs will fly and the will be home for Christmas before anyone is ever able to convince you that Travis and the had sex on June 4, lol.

I wouldn't dream of trying to persuade you. But, will still post (at some point) a no doubt excessively long thang about Travis in May.

Sex or not on the 4th isn't a focus, but focusing on Travis in May rather than the has moved my needle of thought on that from "don't know" to "very likely."