Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #8

[Hope4More]

Yes! I was thinking yesterday (again) how much the series of pics looked like the person taking them was not standing there shooting like he knew they were there, not until the turning surprised one, I even went to YT and looked at them.

How neatly it would fit if she didn't even come into the house until after 4:00, he was already in the shower, she shoots until he notices her, she does something that makes him sit down hard, banging his nose on his knee, and shortly thereafter, well, we know. Wasn't the bike lying askew in the garage or am I misremembering?

You aren't misremembering about the bike. In one of the friends' statements taken by LE on the night Travis was found, (Taylor?) mentioned seeing TA's bike on the garage floor, and that it looked like TA had left it there "after exercising."

I'm guessing TA was the kind of person who typically put his bike away after using it (iirc, he hung up his bikes on a wall in the garage).

But, June 4th didn't seem to be a typical day for Travis, in ways other than the obvious. And....if the bike was used that day, Travis wasn't the only person who might have done so.

 

[geevee]

Sister Geevee, I am well aware that pigs will fly and the will be home for Christmas before anyone is ever able to convince you that Travis and the had sex on June 4, lol.

I wouldn't dream of trying to persuade you. But, will still post (at some point) a no doubt excessively long thang about Travis in May.

Sex or not on the 4th isn't a focus, but focusing on Travis in May rather than the has moved my needle of thought on that from "don't know" to "very likely."

LOL! Okay, will await your next tome of terrific-ness and see if you can budge my needle.

 

[geevee]

You aren't misremembering about the bike. In one of the friends' statements taken by LE on the night Travis was found, (Taylor?) mentioned seeing TA's bike on the garage floor, and that it looked like TA had left it there "after exercising."

I'm guessing TA was the kind of person who typically put his bike away after using it (iirc, he hung up his bikes on a wall in the garage).

But, June 4th didn't seem to be a typical day for Travis, in ways other than the obvious. And....if the bike was used that day, Travis wasn't the only person who might have done so.

Thanks, I thought I had a recollection of hearing/reading that but couldn't pin down from where. I too think Travis wouldn't have normally left it just lying around, he kept everything very neat. You are tempting me with that last statement...

 

[pocketaccent]

Guess what! I was looking into how long the drive would be during rush hour, from 11428 E Queensborough Mesa to Kingman.

And this came up in google search result. TA's house was sold 3/30/18. There are 39 pictures of interiors/exteriors.
11428 E QUEENSBOROUGH Ave, Mesa, AZ 85212 - 5 beds/3 baths

 

[MsJosie]

Guess what! I was looking into how long the drive would be during rush hour, from 11428 E Queensborough Mesa to Kingman.

And this came up in google search result. TA's house was sold 3/30/18. There are 39 pictures of interiors/exteriors.
11428 E QUEENSBOROUGH Ave, Mesa, AZ 85212 - 5 beds/3 baths

Wow....surprised....is it typical for yards to be all sand in that area? As I looked at the pictures I could not help think of the last day for Travis and where ‘it’ hid, attacked and lied.

 

[Hope4More]

Thanks, I thought I had a recollection of hearing/reading that but couldn't pin down from where. I too think Travis wouldn't have normally left it just lying around, he kept everything very neat. You are tempting me with that last statement...

From Mimi's statement to LE, night of June 9th:

"...I was worried because he had told me about an ex- girlfriend who had done some pretty serious - as in psychotic-obsessive things to him and his friends."

(Michelle opened the garage door). "I saw one of his bikes on the floor. It looked like he had been working out."

 

[geevee]

Wow....surprised....is it typical for yards to be all sand in that area? As I looked at the pictures I could not help think of the last day for Travis and where ‘it’ hid, attacked and lied.

Yeah, in AZ I don't think it's unusual to have sand or pebble yards, grass is hard to grow there. Man, looking through the rooms was rather haunting.

 

[geevee]

From Mimi's statement to LE, night of June 9th:

"...I was worried because he had told me about an ex- girlfriend who had done some pretty serious - as in psychotic-obsessive things to him and his friends."

(Michelle opened the garage door). "I saw one of his bikes on the floor. It looked like he had been working out."

Alrighty, thanks. What was his day like on the 3rd?

 

[pocketaccent]

Available time slot for murder:
7 am - 2pm

I eliminated all other times. See below. Advice.

-Known computer activity :
~4am - 4:30 am- youtube videos, email, blog
2:44 pm (spybot)
3:34 pm, 4:19 pm, 4:54 pm. -Detective's testimony
(geevee, detetive Brown testified that T's computer was set to Pacific Standard time, so the time on computer equals Arizona time.)

Not available for murder:
4-5 am computer usage
5-6 am Roommate home
6-7 am Roommate home

2-3 pm: computer usage
3-4 pm: computer usage
4-5 pm: computer usage
5-6 pm : According to Ryan's testimony, he received a call from around 10:30 pm and they spoke for 30min to an hour. He said she may have called back one more time and they spoke some more. He is in Utah so is calling him at 9:30 pm Arizona time.

Detective Gladysh placed the location of the caller at 45 miles north of Kingman, which is about 27 miles south of the Nevada border.
(Caveat: That is where called Travis. I'm going to assume she called Ryan at this spot for calculation below. testified she called Ryan, Leslie, and Travis after passing Hoover Dam. I don't know why she lied. Maybe she didn't want police to look for any evidence she threw out in the Kingman area. JM revealed during cross that she also attempted to call MM and Brewer.)

So, From 11428 E Queensborough Ave Mesa to Kingman during rush hour takes at least 4 hours. Add about 40 min to drive 45 miles more.

5:30 pm murder photo + at least 30 min clean up time (I'm being generous. I think it took longer)+ 4 hours 40 min driving time = 10:40 pm (Arizona time) is the earliest time she could have called Ryan. Time in Utah= 11:40 pm

Murder at 5:30 pm is not possible.

I think by 4:54 pm (last computer usage), She was all cleaned up and ready to go and left immediately after 4:54 pm.

 

[Hope4More]

Abailable time slot for murder:
7 am - 2pm

I eliminated all other times. See below. Advice.

-Known computer activity :
~4am - 4:30 am- youtube videos, email, blog
2:44 pm (spybot)
3:34 pm, 4:19 pm, 4:54 pm. -Detective's testimony
(geevee, detetive Brown testified that T's computer was set to Pacific Standard time, so the time on computer equals Arizona time.)

Not available for murder:
4-5 am computer usage
5-6 am Roommate home
6-7 am Roommate home

2-3 pm: computer usage
3-4 pm: computer usage
4-5 pm: computer usage
5-6 pm : According to Ryan's testimony, he received a call from around 10:30 pm and they spoke for 30min to an hour. He said she may have called back one more time and they spoke some more. He is in Utah so is calling him at 9:30 pm Arizona time.

Detective Gladysh placed the location of the caller at 45 miles north of Kingman, which is about 27 miles south of the Nevada border.
(Caveat: That is where called Travis. I'm going to assume she called Ryan at this spot for calculation below. testified she called Ryan, Leslie, and Travis after passing Hoover Dam. I don't know why she lied. Maybe she didn't want police to look for any evidence she threw out in the Kingman area. JM revealed during cross that she also attempted to call MM and Brewer.)

So, From 11428 E Queensborough Ave Mesa to Kingman during rush hour takes at least 4 hours. Add about 40 min to drive 45 miles more.

5:30 pm murder photo + at least 30 min clean up time (I'm being generous. I think it took longer)+ 4 hours 40 min driving time = 10:40 pm (Arizona time) is the earliest time she could have called Ryan. Time in Utah= 11:40 pm

Murder at 5:30 pm is not possible.

I think by 4:54 pm (last computer usage), She was all cleaned up and ready to go and left immediately after 4:54 pm.

Remember when I drove the route from Mesa to Kingman?

I'm sure I remember correctly the group sleuthing that led to the (generally accepted, not unanimous) conclusion that there actually was enough time for her to have murdered Travis at the time stamped on photos, to have done a quick though sloppy cleanup, and to have reached the place between Kingman & the Hoover Dam where she made her calls to MM, then to Ryan.

Didn't Flores or the Sprint guy or someone else testify that she made the call to Burns around 11:30pm, AZ time? Burns' memory of the time of call wasn't as accurate as the actual phone records.

---

 

[pocketaccent]

Remember when I drove the route from Mesa to Kingman?

I'm sure I remember correctly the group sleuthing that led to the (generally accepted, not unanimous) conclusion that there actually was enough time for her to have murdered Travis at the time stamped on photos, to have done a quick though sloppy cleanup, and to have reached the place between Kingman & the Hoover Dam where she made her calls to MM, then to Ryan.

Didn't Flores or the Sprint guy or someone else testify that she made the call to Burns around 11:30pm, AZ time? Burns' memory of the time of call wasn't as accurate as the actual phone records.

Ryan seemed to remember the time of call very well.
He went to training 7-9:30, went to cheesecake factory at 10 pm, received the call at 10:30 pm.

Ryan's 10:30 pm call was mentioned by Ryan only. No one else testified about this I believe.
It's just that we had never thought of the time difference between Utah and Arizona.

Her voice mail to Travis was after Ryan, Leslie, MM, Brewer.

 

[Hope4More]

Ryan seemed to remember the time of call very well.
He went to training 7-9:30, went to cheesecake factory at 10 pm, received the call at 10:30 pm.

Ryan's 10:30 pm call was mentioned by Ryan only. No one else testified about this I believe.
It's just that we had never thought of the time difference between Utah and Arizona.

Her voice mail to Travis was after Ryan, Leslie, MM, Brewer.

A detective or (more likely) a phone company rep testified at some length about the calls she made before reaching Hoover Dam. Whoever it was discussed cell towers and mountain ranges and how it was possible to determine where she made the calls (how far from border and from Kingman).


Passing on more discussion of this, because i personally don't have any doubt that the timestamps on the shower photos were accurate, that she had enough time for cleanup & speedy drive (after escaping Phoenix traffic), and that Flores & JM did thorough due diligence with the evidence to reach the conclusions they did about the actual murder/post-murder timeline.

 

[RickshawFan]

You aren't misremembering about the bike. In one of the friends' statements taken by LE on the night Travis was found, (Taylor?) mentioned seeing TA's bike on the garage floor, and that it looked like TA had left it there "after exercising."

I'm guessing TA was the kind of person who typically put his bike away after using it (iirc, he hung up his bikes on a wall in the garage).

But, June 4th didn't seem to be a typical day for Travis, in ways other than the obvious. And....if the bike was used that day, Travis wasn't the only person who might have done so.

Now, I'm committed to the idea that texted at 4 pm to find out if TA was home (simply by inquiring about a room, but disguising herself by making the same text earlier in the day, so the later one would look like follow-up if TA answered), because she wasn't there at that time and hadn't arrived there yet that day.

This would have to mean had a phone that TA didn't have the number of, and she had to use the same phone both times. She surely couldn't have called from DB's because a CA number would have shown up on TA's phone; then later a Mesa number? Suspicious.

But my original thought was that she surprised him when he returned from his bike ride.

 

[RickshawFan]

A detective or (more likely) a phone company rep testified at some length about the calls she made before reaching Hoover Dam. Whoever it was discussed cell towers and mountain ranges and how it was possible to determine where she made the calls (how far from border and from Kingman).


Passing on more discussion of this, because i personally don't have any doubt that the timestamps on the shower photos were accurate, that she had enough time for cleanup & speedy drive (after escaping Phoenix traffic), and that Flores & JM did thorough due diligence with the evidence to reach the conclusions they did about the actual murder/post-murder timeline.

Yes, I think you demonstrated definitively by your drive- around that you are correct.

I'm still about the Last Stop scenario for the "between Henderson and Kingman" ping, owing to the mountain contours and the scarcity of cell service in that area (as you also demonstrated).

could have had a considerable layover at the Last Stop, and she would be very unlikely to have been remembered, even if she went into the restaurant to get an all-day breakfast. She could have got washed up at the faucet in the campground there.

 

[RickshawFan]

Guess what! I was looking into how long the drive would be during rush hour, from 11428 E Queensborough Mesa to Kingman.
<snipped>

Recall H4M did this routine for us in, I think, August 2016. We were typing communications with her live while she was on the road?

There should be minute by minute timing on those posts. It was quite the sleuth-job.

 

[RickshawFan]

Ryan seemed to remember the time of call very well.
He went to training 7-9:30, went to cheesecake factory at 10 pm, received the call at 10:30 pm.

Ryan's 10:30 pm call was mentioned by Ryan only. No one else testified about this I believe.
It's just that we had never thought of the time difference between Utah and Arizona.

Her voice mail to Travis was after Ryan, Leslie, MM, Brewer.

I'm not sure there's a time difference between Utah and Arizona in June?

Moments later....There is indeed a time difference of one hour. Check here: The World Clock - Time Zone Converter - USA – Utah – Salt Lake City vs USA – Arizona – Phoenix

This would account for one hour for the three unaccounted for between Henderson and West Jordan or Mesquite and West Jordan?

I can't imagine she didn't ditch the weapons before Hoover Dam...The odds of getting a search were astronomical.

I wonder why JM didn't get video of her crossing the dam? The US Gov must have this video because of terrorist threats. Since they had the ping pinpointed time-wise and therefore her likely whereabouts in that area? An intern could have done this for them. The license plate must have been right side up as she went over the dam, otherwise it would have been easy to spot on video?

It's possible they couldn't find it or not in the timeframe they were expecting.

 

[RickshawFan]

Yowza, I'm typing my input and ya'll are ahead of me in getting your thoughts published!

 

[RickshawFan]

Someone copy those photos of TA's house for later sleuthing!

Gosh, I dread to think what "minor cosmetic repairs" might entail. Lingering blood drops?

If the buyer will "start with equity" it must mean that the house is very hard to sell? The owners are underwater? I can't imagine how you could "start with equity" if you were buying.

Later: now I see that the house sold in March.

All that clutter downstairs and outside, and all the vacant rooms upstairs. Weird. The house isn't even staged. There's personal stuff just lying around on the first floor as though the folks left in a hurry. And they never moved in upstairs? They had renters in the whole upstairs?

The hallway gives me the creeps more than anything else.

 

[RickshawFan]

Wow....surprised....is it typical for yards to be all sand in that area? As I looked at the pictures I could not help think of the last day for Travis and where ‘it’ hid, attacked and lied.

That backyard actually looks like it's been stripped. Did Flores (I vaguely recall) say something about TA never having landscaped it?

 

[RickshawFan]

******
5:30 pm murder photo + at least 30 min clean up time (I'm being generous. I think it took longer)+ 4 hours 40 min driving time = 10:40 pm (Arizona time) is the earliest time she could have called Ryan. Time in Utah= 11:40 pm

Murder at 5:30 pm is not possible.

I think by 4:54 pm (last computer usage), She was all cleaned up and ready to go and left immediately after 4:54 pm.

This goes along with my concept of her not arriving 'til after 4 pm and the text regarding renting had been sent?

IIRC, TA wasn't on the phone the whole afternoon. But he was on the computer.

And could have backspaced to see the dawn YouTube videos OR copied the link and looked it up later on her own computer?

Then, all she'd have had to do in the study at cleanup time was to leave the check and take TA's money?

I think might have been thrown off earlier in the day because TA didn't respond to her text about the rental room, and that caused her to delay. She could have assumed he wasn't home and she needed him to be home for the murder. So, she waited and tried again at 4 pm in the neighborhood and observed him returning from a bike ride (which might explain why he didn't text back, it being difficult to text while riding a bike). Then she heard his post-bike shower, and she was off and running, knife and gun secreted in her pants.