Sentencing and beyond- JA General Discussion #9

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Let me try this again, for the last time; aiming for simple, and hoping for succinct. :D


THE BAR CHARGE AGAINST JM RELATING TO JUROR 17

That JM divulged confidential trial info to Jennifer Wood, and lied under oath by denying that he had. The Bar alleges that JM, on the evening of March 3, told Wood there was a sole hold out juror; provided juror 17’s name to Jennifer Wood; told her of his investigation of 17’s FB page; asked her to help find info that could help remove 17 from the jury, and told Wood that he could/would be disbarred if anyone found out what he was telling her and asking her to do.


THE BAR'S EVIDENCE FOR THIS CHARGE

There may or may not be phone records that indicate JM did call Wood that evening. Other than (potential) call records, the Bar will only have testimony by Wood and by Rose.

JM’s attorney will have multiple grounds to undermine Rose’s general credibility, but IMO, only one is relevant to this charge: that Rose gave conflicting replies in her depo as to whether or not Wood explicitly said to her that JM gave juror 17’s name to Wood.

All Rose knows or that she can testify to about this charge is what she says Wood told her by phone or texted her. The Bar’s problem is that even if Rose credibly relates what Wood told her on March 3, that isn’t evidence that what Wood told Rose was/is true. Suffice it to say that JM’s attorney is likely to have a field day attacking Wood’s credibility. After all, both Rose and Karen Clark have described the Bar’s actual star witness--Wood -as an unethical, unbalanced pathological liar and stalker who was obsessed with Juan Martinez, and who regularly exaggerated her supposed importance to JM (including telling Rose that she routinely “helped” JM prepare for trial, and that she was helping JM write his book).

So why would the Bar bother to have Rose testify, if all she can offer is hearsay evidence?

Because Rose will testify about several specific pieces of information relating to juror 17 that she says Wood told her on the night of March 3. What’s crucial is that this specific information was accurate, unknown to the public, and confidential.


The specific information: a physical description of juror 17; that she was the lone holdout juror; and that 17 had “liked” the Law of Attraction on her FB page.

IMO, it is entirely logical and reasonable to conclude that Wood couldn’t have known what she did on the evening of March 3 without having obtained the information illegitimately; either by JM leaking confidential information to her, or by another/other means.


THE 3 POSSIBLE SCENARIOS AS TO HOW WOOD OBTAINED THE INFORMATION ABOUT JUROR 17 SHE KNEW BY THE EVENING OF MARCH 3


1. JM is guilty as charged. To believe this is to believe that AFTER Flores had completed his investigation into 17’s FB page and hadn’t found any smoking guns; AFTER knowing that JSS would have to agree to a FB subpoena- and at least a 2 week suspension of jury deliberations until the FB info could be obtained; AFTER JSS had already looked through 17’s jury questionnaire and considered JM/Flores’ first round of research into 17’s FB page and had then denied his Motion to Strike 17; AFTER JSS had interviewed jurors in her chambers on the afternoon of March 3 and been told that 17 was now participating and all was swell, and AFTER Nurmi had filed motions equating any investigation of 17 with juror coercion, that AFTER ALL THAT, JM picked up the phone, called Wood, and told her he needed her help so desperately that he was willing to take the chance of being disbarred by providing her with 17’s name so she, Wood, could go looking for dirt on 17.


2. Wood obtained the info by accessing court minute entries and/or motions that were supposed to be sealed, but that were accidentally e-filed. Court investigations into the leak of 17’s name to the public on March 5, immediately after the jury hung, concluded that 17’s info (leaked in the form of her FB page), could have been obtained in this manner. BUT. Obtaining information about 17 and her FB page from court records of March 3 BY THE EARLY EVENING OF THE SAME DAY, MARCH 3, is an entirely different proposition than “lucking out” and finding those accidentally left unsealed court records by the AM of March 5. (That’s assuming 17’s FB page was obtained via court records. Not, IMO).

It’s not completely impossible that Wood was somehow able to access March 3’s court records by early evening, but the odds are exceedingly slim that she could have or did, IMO. What IMO pushes this avenue of obtaining 17’s name into the realm of the impossible (but NOT the fact of a holdout juror) is this: screenshots of 17’s FB weren’t entered into evidence until the next day, March 4, when JM argued and lost his Motion to Reconsider JSS’s denial of his March 3 motion to strike 17.

Maricopa Superior Court records, including Minute Entries, never mention jurors by name, only by their numbers. Even if the sealed entries/motions for March 3rd include mention of 17’s FB page, the mention would reference 17 by number, not by her name. The same is true of both the 2 jury notes sent to JSS on the 3rd : juror 17 signed hers as “juror 17,” the foreman’s note referred to her as juror 17.


In a unsealed Minute Entry (iirc, on March 5 or 6), JSS laid out some of what transpired on March 3 relating to juror 17, including the fact that she had obtained and reviewed 17’s original jury questionnaire. There is nothing on the docket or in the court minutes to indicate that a copy of 17’s questionnaire-which likely had her name on it-was entered into the record (again) on March 3. What JSS DOES provide in the entry-so, possibly in the sealed minutes of March 3 as well, is the temporary juror number 17 had while in voir dire, before she was accepted onto the jury. These temporary juror numbers were known to the public, including for a fact, to Jennifer Wood, who tweeted about juror 17 several times, using 17’s temporary number (#138).

3. Wood obtained juror 17’s information from one of the 6 copies of the Court’s pretrial list of jurors. Perhaps what is most astonishing about this possibility is that Tammy Rose told Karen Clark BEFORE Clark first filed her Bar complaint against JM in January 2017 that she, Rose, believed Jennifer Wood DID have a copy of this jury list; that Wood likely DID leak this full list to the public (via JAII) on March 3; and that Wood had likely used this list to dox PP2 juror 3, Melissa Garcia, after Garcia had been kicked off the jury, in revenge for Garcia pursuing JM and sending him nude photos of herself.

Rose also believes that it was Wood who leaked 17’s name via her FB page immediately following the PP2 mistrial verdict, and of course, that it was JM who gave Wood 17’s name.

Seems to me JM’s attorney might want to ask Rose:

According to what you’ve sworn under oath, you believe Wood had access to a full list of juror names, and you believe she used that list to dox both individual jurors and the jury as a whole. You also have stated, repeatedly, and under oath, that Wood routinely used aliases and a range of other manipulative tactics on SM to put out questionable info or to threaten others.

Why then would you believe Wood obtained 17’s name from JM, and not from that list of jurors? And why would you believe JM asked Wood, at the risk of being his being disbarred, to “dig up dirt” from juror 17’s SM accounts? Isn’t it far more likely, and consistent with how you’ve described Wood’s character and actions, that on the evening of March 3, Wood believed juror 17 might cause the jury to hang, and that she acted on her own to try to find disqualifying dirt on juror 17?
 
Last edited:
Tammy Rose, in 2017 Bar complaint deposition with Karen Clark, about the full jury list & Wood the leaker


Karen Clark: do you think it’s possible if (Wood) is inside (JM’s) office that she would have accessed other non-public or sealed information?

Rose: Absolutely. That’s why I turned my phone over to (17’s attorney), because I suspected that the affair might have had something to do with all the jurors’ names being leaked online. That was the whole reason why I turned my phone records over, because I didn’t feel that the leak was investigated at all.

….

Rose: All the jurors names were leaked online and there were only 6 people who had a copy of all the jurors’ names. So I just thought if she’s in his office, she could somehow have gotten a hold of those names, whether Juan gave them to her or she took them. I don’t know.

Clark: Who are the 6 people as far as you know?

Rose: (…) what Troy Hayden said was that it must have been an official document that came from one of the 6 people who had it, because the way it was presented or leaked online (the list) had the (jurors’ full name and middle) initials on it. Again, I wasn’t covering the leak. I knew nothing about it. I never saw the names. This just comes from Hayden’s reporting. He said the defense, the prosecutor, Maria De LaRosa , the judge and maybe a couple of court staffers (had the list).

….

Rose: I asked juror 3 (Garcia, the juror who was kicked off & who later contacted JM) if she thought her information was leaked online. She was very upset. So…Jen was at the jury selection. None of the mainstream media was there. We don’t have the manpower to send people down there all day to listen to jury selection. So, Jen was there every day for that, you know, so she got to know who the jurors were a little bit better than I would.

So I don’t know. I mean, you know, it crossed my mind maybe she’s the one that got the list and leaked juror 3’s name. That’s why I want this investigation done properly, because I was just very concerned about how all these juror names were released online, and you know, juror 3 was very upset about it.
 
Looking at this (below) again, does anyone get the sense that if Wood leaked the full jury list to JAII, she did so to try to direct attention away from fingers being pointed at her as the leaker of juror 17’s name? And…definitely don’t miss what Wood seemed to be suggesting to Rose might have been a conspiracy by the killer, MDLR, and JAII to use juror 17 to tamper with the jury.


March 5, 2015.

9:57AM. Wood to Rose text: “This is very stressful.”

10:00 AM. PP2 mistrial declared.

Minutes afterwards, while the media waited for 11 of 12 jurors to arrive to give a joint press conference, Jennifer Wood held up her laptop towards Beth Karas and exclaimed: “I think this is the holdout juror!”

Karas looked and “gasped.” What she saw was a Jennifer Wood fan page, and on it, a screenshot of juror 17’s FB page, with her name clearly on it. Karas immediately looked up 17’s FB page for herself; as she did, a tweet with 17’s identity sent using one of Wood’s alleged SM aliases vanished.

Rose explained to Karen Clark that what happened next greatly upset Wood. Michael Kiefer immediately began questioning Wood about how she got 17’s info, and why would 17’s info appear on her fanpage? (Kiefer was only one of many in the media who felt suspicious or even certain, from the get-go, that Wood was the leaker).

(fwiw. Wood told Rose weeks later that Kiefer had told her the leak had come from “somebody back east.” Rose asked Kiefer if he had said that to Wood. He denied that he had).

Media and trial watchers’ attention first focused on the fact a second -and final- penalty jury had hung and on the jurors’ press conference. Attention, and a huge amount of anger though, soon shifted to the subject of juror 17, in no small part because each of the 11 jurors who spoke told the media they believed juror 17 walked in with an (anti-DP) agenda. The immediate assumption by many was that 17 had been a stealth juror. Her identity spread like wildfire on SM, and peeps began researching and posting/tweeting about her.


10:55AM. Rose tries to reach Wood by phone. No reply.

11:57. Rose to Wood: What juror was the holdout number (sic)?

11:58AM. Wood: idk


From around 2-11PM, Rose and Wood text back and forth, on and off, about their own and others’ capitalization of the post verdict media coverage. At some point in the afternoon, the rabidly pro-killer, nasty JAII page posted a thank you to juror 17, and with that, a photocopy/scan of the Court’s official list of PP2’s jurors. The list included each juror’s full name, but did not include juror numbers (neither the temporary numbers assigned in voir dire, or the numbers they were assigned, after being selected, for the trial proper. Juror 17’s name was blacked out from the list posted by JAII.

11:07PM. Rose to Wood: Did you see 5 hunt down the juror who helds out husband? (sic)

11:08. Wood: Yes lol.

11:08. Rose: So sad us media hounds

11:08. Wood. OMG it’s getting crazier.

11:09. Wood: People are saying JUAN prosecuted 17’s ex-husband

11:09. Rose: oh f’uck but there’s nothing that can be done now right?

11:02pm. Wood. Don’t think so. I’m asking him to look into it.

------------------------------------
March 6, Rose-Wood texts.


1:47PM. Rose. Did he know that juror 17’s husband he prosecuted (sic).

1:47. Wood. OMG this juror thing is getting worse.

1:47. Wood. He didn’t know her.

1:48. Wood. They are investigating but this is bigger.

1:48. Wood. He only has case for short time and she lied on her questionnaire.

1:48. Rose. F’uck. She lies then.

1:48. Rose. Mother f’ucker. So charges will be brought up on her and Arias gets the good life.

1:49. Rose. I hope they come down hard on her and the defense if they knew.

1:49. Wood. God this may involve Maria.

1:49. Rose. Yeah b’itch.

1:49. Rose. Going down.

1:50. Wood. Ya know the jurors names were leaked to a Jodi site

1:50. Wood. Ya bigger.

1:50. Wood. Well what if Jodi did it when she was pro per and her people found someone in jury to target

1:50. Rose. Pretty s’hitty.

1:50. Rose. Well at least she won’t get parole now lol.

1:51. Rose. Holy f’uck. Can they get the jurors back and reverse this s’hit

1:52. Wood. I think this stinks to high heaven

1:52. Wood. No. lol.

1:52. Wood. She just talks to him.

1:52. Wood. Get info there.

1:52. Wood. They go for her husband.

1:52. Wood. This chick hates the establishment, sheriff joe, Juan.

1:53. Rose. Well I hope prison time helps them.

Rose doesn't bite; she keeps missing the point and changing the subject. Wood then drops it too.
 
Last edited:
Mitchell in September reassigned Martinez from the high-profile capital litigation bureau to the auto theft division. She said she moved him to give him time to focus on his disciplinary hearings. They are scheduled for April.

Exact dates of JM's bar hearings: April 20-23.

A panel of 3 will oversee the hearings: Chief Disciplinary Judge William O'Neil and 2 "citizens."

(FWIW: the last time JM appeared before O'Neil & panel to defend against a Bar complaint, the entire affair- cases, witnesses, panel deliberation and the dismissal of all charges- all happened in one day's session).

Four days' worth of hearings, imo, to hear testimony etc. on the 3 pending charges seems far from routine. Wildly excessive, even, given the specific charges. That is, unless one or more parties may have indicated lots of time will be necessary to put on a grand display of CYA?
 
The very most generous and charitable interpretation of what drives MK's unquenchable thirst to see/have JM disbarred is that MK is vehemently anti-DP and JM is (has been) an extremely successful DP prosecutor.

Along with his strong anti-DP agenda, MK has also rung alarm bells for years about MCAO and a succession of Maricopa County Attys, Montgomery the most recent. He believes, basically, that MCAO is corrupt top to bottom, that successive County Attorneys have abused their authority and power with impunity, and that most prosecutors on staff wouldn't recognize ethical boundaries even if they were fenced off with high voltage electrical wire.

BTW, to a real and certain extent MK's overall take about MCAO isn't wrong, imo.

Once upon a time, though, back in 2013 and during the guilt phase trial, a WS'er posting in these threads (Katie) happened to actually know MK and had known him for years.

FWIW, it was her firmly held opinion, based on her personal interactions with MK, that MK has a deep and personal loathing/contempt for JM that seemingly has little or nothing to do with MK's alleged principles or his journalistic interests.

I am so glad to see you posting here still, Hope4! I remember well all the controversy from MK’s stories. KCL— a good member to have with us during this case.
 
Haven't commented before on the Bar charges related to alleged sexual harassment by JM, aka the grounds for Count 2 of 2 on the Probable Cause order.

The MCAO-related allegations that were dismissed months ago were also part of Count 2, a charge of unprofessional conduct that JM will be defending against in April.

What's left of Count 2- and thus of the sexual harassment allegations- involves a single court employee: Marla Knox, a court reporter for Maricopa County Superior Court.

The Bar charge states that Knox served as a court reporter "during portions of (TA's killer's) trial," and alleges that "during a number of hearings in (killer's) case, JM frequently stared at Knox in ways that made her feel uncomfortable."

Also:

" During the portions of the (killer's) case in which Knox served as court reporter, JM frequently, sometimes daily, commented on Knox's skirts, shoes and physical appearance. These comments were unwelcome and made Knox feel uncomfortable."

"As she feared repercussions if the incidents were reported, Knox merely smiled or left the courtroom, if possible, in response."

"At some point during (killer's) case, the comments escalated in nature and he began making comments such as "I like the person that's in the skirt," or "I would like to see what's inside that skirt."

"Because of his comments, Knox arranged to switch times with another court reporter during some of (killer's) proceedings, in order to avoid being near JM during his presentations."

When the court reporters' supervisor learned of the switch, she advised both to abide by the original schedule. The supervisor wasn't aware of the reason for the schedules being switched.
---------
Ok, then. A little context.

1. Knox was one of 22 court reporters who worked on the killer's case and 2 trials (2008-2015). Of these 22 reporters, many of them women, she is the only one alleging inappropriate behavior by JM.

2. Knox wasn't present for any of the killer's pre-guilt trial hearings held between 2008-2012, nor for any part of the original guilt phase and sentencing trials.

She first worked on the killer's case in 2013, for a single day (September 13; for an 8 minute status hearing).

Her next appearances were to record 6 pre-PP2 hearings, largely trial status hearings, that took place in early summer through mid-September, 2014 (2 in June, one in July, 3 in September. The length of these hearings ranged from 8-12 minutes.

Knox's first involvement of any length or significance began with PP2 jury selection, on October 1, 2014. Knox covered most of voir dire:

Oct. 1. (worked one and 1/2 hours)
Oct 2. (worked 7 minutes)
(Mike Babicky covered Oct 6)
Oct. 7. (worked 9:33-5:03).
Oct. 8. (worked 9:32-12:20).

PP2 opening statements took place on October 21. Knox first worked PP2 on day 2, October 22. She covered 2 other days in October, including October 30, the killer's first day of testimony in closed court.

Knox worked 4 days in November: one status conference; a hearing on the computer farce, and 2 trial days.

In December, Knox worked a total of 3 days; one of those days an evidentiary hearing.

Knox worked 5 days in January 2015 (January 8, 14, 22, 26, 28) and 8 days in February (February 3-4; 9, 11, 18-19; 24-26).
----
3. On the allegation that JM "stared" at Knox in a "number of hearings." How could that happen, exactly, these stares by JM that were so out of the ordinary in some way as to make Knox "uncomfortable," especially given that Knox would presumably be focused on her job, recording every word that was being spoken by all parties?

And in PP2 hearings that were largely in and out meetings lasting under 15 minutes, always with, at minimum, all counsel, JSS, and the killer present?

2. On the allegation that on "days Knox served as court reporter" (? that was her job, so...every day she worked?) JM would " frequently, sometimes daily" comment upon her shoes, skirts, and physical appearance."

So...frequently doesn't mean every day, because (the comments) were "sometimes daily." How frequent could frequent be if they were only sometimes made daily, and Knox only worked a handful of days or less each month of killer's trial?

To recap, she worked:

October 2014. 3 days.
November 2014. 4 days.
December 2014. 3 days.
January 2015. 5 days.
February 2015. 8 days.

3. At the risk of sounding dismissive of sexual harassment claims in general, or of not understanding/sympathizing with victims of sexual harassment, here goes.

A. IMO, a man telling a woman he likes her shoes or that she looks pretty does NOT automatically equate to sexual harassment. Not even when the man and woman are workplace colleagues, and for that matter, not even when the man is the woman's boss/supervisor.

B. What matters, imo, is how the woman responds to the comments being made. If she tells the fellow directly or even indirectly that the comments are unwelcome or are making her uncomfortable, and the fellow continues to make them, THAT is sexual harassment, imo.

Or, it's evidence enough to put sexual harassment on the plate if she is, for whatever reason, incapable or unwilling to speak to the fellow directly, but is "uncomfortable" enough to report her concerns, however unofficially.

So, how did Knox respond to the alleged comments JM made about her shoes and skirts and physical appearance? According to the Bar, she "smiled," or exited the courtroom, if she could.

What cue, exactly, is ANY man in that situation supposed to pick up on that his comments are unwelcome?

The Bar's assertion that Knox "feared repercussions" if she reported the incidents makes little to no sense either, imo. What kind of repercussions could there possibly have been?

First of all- Knox didn't work for JM, or for anyone else in the County Attorney's office. She was employed by the Superior Court of Maricopa County, an entirely separate entity from MCAO. JM had zero authority or power over her or her job.

Second, and what IMO raises substantial doubt as to the merit of Knox's allegations: Knox has told the Bar that her supervisor warned HER that "certain persons were flirtatious and to be avoided," and that JM was one of those persons.

Given that Knox's supervisor supposedly gave her a direct warning to avoid JM because he was "flirtatious," what repercussions could Knox have feared if she told her supervisor that JM was being flirtatious?

Next, according to the Bar. JM's comments later "escalated in nature" to remarks about "liking what was in that skirt," or "wanting to see what was in (her) skirt. "

Those comments, if JM actually made them, using those words, IMO do cross the line. Color me skeptical, though, and throw rocks at me if you'd like.

Again, we aren't talking JM and Knox interacting anywhere remotely private, where JM could furtively sexually harass her without being heard or seen. They were in a courtroom. With Nurmi and Wilmott and the killer lurking a few feet away, bailiffs at hand, TA's family on benches right behind JM, and at some point, with JSS on the bench.

And again, what the Bar has stated about Knox and her supervisor contributes to my skepticism.

JM's comments supposedly escalated beyond shoe-admiring to a level any even semi- legally astute or responsible supervisor in any workplace would find problematic.

Did Knox at this point, then, speak to her supervisor, the one who allegedly warned Knox to avoid flirtatious JM? Nope.

Instead, although Knox claimed JM's escalated
comments made her so uncomfortable that she switched days with another court reporter to avoid JM, she never told her supervisor the reason for the switches, even after her supervisor ordered them both to resume their original schedules.

The most favorable case for these Knox related charges, IMO, is that JM in fact did make Knox uncomfortable. But.

Again an IMO. The first appropriate avenue for addressing the problem of JM making Knox feel uncomfortable would have been for Knox to tell JM that he was making her feel uncomfortable.

Next, if she couldn't do that, was for Knox to speak to her supervisor about JM, ESPECIALLY given how wide open a door that supervisor had left open explicitly on this topic, and explicitly about JM. (Allegedly, anyway).

Third, if the court reporters' supervisor had observed a pattern/history of inappropriate conduct by JM or by any other MCAO attorney, it was her responsibility to have reported that conduct to the Court, and the Court's responsibility to report the conduct to MCAO.

What I don't find remotely appropriate, fair, or reasonable is Knox's complaint being surfaced by the
crusading Karen Clark years after the fact, and being
"handled" as a Bar complaint against JM. And, as egregiously- having Knox's allegations tacked on by Clark to fortify her Bar complaint that had so little foundation or merit the Bar originally dismissed it outright.
 
Last edited:
Haven't commented before on the Bar charges related to alleged sexual harassment by JM, aka the grounds for Count 2 of 2 on the Probable Cause order.

The MCAO-related allegations that were dismissed months ago were also part of Count 2, a charge of unprofessional conduct that JM will be defending against in April.

What's left of Count 2- and thus of the sexual harassment allegations- involves a single court employee: Marla Knox, a court reporter for Maricopa County Superior Court.

The Bar charge states that Knox served as a court reporter "during portions of (TA's killer's) trial," and alleges that "during a number of hearings in (killer's) case, JM frequently stared at Knox in ways that made her feel uncomfortable."

Also:

" During the portions of the (killer's) case in which Knox served as court reporter, JM frequently, sometimes daily, commented on Knox's skirts, shoes and physical appearance. These comments were unwelcome and made Knox feel uncomfortable."

"As she feared repercussions if the incidents were reported, Knox merely smiled or left the courtroom, if possible, in response."

"At some point during (killer's) case, the comments escalated in nature and he began making comments such as "I like the person that's in the skirt," or "I would like to see what's inside that skirt."

"Because of his comments, Knox arranged to switch times with another court reporter during some of (killer's) proceedings, in order to avoid being near JM during his presentations."

When the court reporters' supervisor learned of the switch, she advised both to abide by the original schedule. The supervisor wasn't aware of the reason for the schedules being switched.
---------
Ok, then. A little context.

1. Knox was one of 22 court reporters who worked on the killer's case and 2 trials (2008-2015). Of these 22 reporters, many of them women, she is the only one alleging inappropriate behavior by JM.

2. Knox wasn't present for any of the killer's pre-guilt trial hearings held between 2008-2012, nor for any part of the original guilt phase and sentencing trials.

She first worked on the killer's case in 2013, for a single day (September 13; for an 8 minute status hearing).

Her next appearances were to record 6 pre-PP2 hearings, largely trial status hearings, that took place in early summer through mid-September, 2014 (2 in June, one in July, 3 in September. The length of these hearings ranged from 8-12 minutes.

Knox's first involvement of any length or significance began with PP2 jury selection, on October 1, 2014. Knox covered most of voir dire:

Oct. 1. (worked one and 1/2 hours)
Oct 2. (worked 7 minutes)
(Mike Babicky covered Oct 6)
Oct. 7. (worked 9:33-5:03).
Oct. 8. (worked 9:32-12:20).

PP2 opening statements took place on October 21. Knox first worked PP2 on day 2, October 22. She covered 2 other days in October, including October 30, the killer's first day of testimony in closed court.

Knox worked 4 days in November: one status conference; a hearing on the computer farce, and 2 trial days.

In December, Knox worked a total of 3 days; one of those days an evidentiary hearing.

Knox worked 5 days in January 2015 (January 8, 14, 22, 26, 28) and 8 days in February (February 3-4; 9, 11, 18-19; 24-26).
----
3. On the allegation that JM "stared" at Knox in a "number of hearings." How could that happen, exactly, these stares by JM that were so out of the ordinary in some way as to make Knox "uncomfortable," especially given that Knox would presumably be focused on her job, recording every word that was being spoken by all parties?

And in PP2 hearings that were largely in and out meetings lasting under 15 minutes, always with, at minimum, all counsel, JSS, and the killer present?

2. On the allegation that on "days Knox served as court reporter" (? that was her job, so...every day she worked?) JM would " frequently, sometimes daily" comment upon her shoes, skirts, and physical appearance."

So...frequently doesn't mean every day, because (the comments) were "sometimes daily." How frequent could frequent be if they were only sometimes made daily, and Knox only worked a handful of days or less each month of killer's trial?

To recap, she worked:

October 2014. 3 days.
November 2014. 4 days.
December 2014. 3 days.
January 2015. 5 days.
February 2015. 8 days.

3. At the risk of sounding dismissive of sexual harassment claims in general, or of not understanding/sympathizing with victims of sexual harassment, here goes.

A. IMO, a man telling a woman he likes her shoes or that she looks pretty does NOT automatically equate to sexual harassment. Not even when the man and woman are workplace colleagues, and for that matter, not even when the man is the woman's boss/supervisor.

B. What matters, imo, is how the woman responds to the comments being made. If she tells the fellow directly or even indirectly that the comments are unwelcome or are making her uncomfortable, and the fellow continues to make them, THAT is sexual harassment, imo.

Or, it's evidence enough to put sexual harassment on the plate if she is, for whatever reason, incapable or unwilling to speak to the fellow directly, but is "uncomfortable" enough to report her concerns, however unofficially.

So, how did Knox respond to the alleged comments JM made about her shoes and skirts and physical appearance? According to the Bar, she "smiled," or exited the courtroom, if she could.

What cue, exactly, is ANY man in that situation supposed to pick up on that his comments are unwelcome?

The Bar's assertion that Knox "feared repercussions" if she reported the incidents makes little to no sense either, imo. What kind of repercussions could there possibly have been?

First of all- Knox didn't work for JM, or for anyone else in the County Attorney's office. She was employed by the Superior Court of Maricopa County, an entirely separate entity from MCAO. JM had zero authority or power over her or her job.

Second, and what IMO raises substantial doubt as to the merit of Knox's allegations: Knox has told the Bar that her supervisor warned HER that "certain persons were flirtatious and to be avoided," and that JM was one of those persons.

Given that Knox's supervisor supposedly gave her a direct warning to avoid JM because he was "flirtatious," what repercussions could Knox have feared if she told her supervisor that JM was being flirtatious?

Next, according to the Bar. JM's comments later "escalated in nature" to remarks about "liking what was in that skirt," or "wanting to see what was in (her) skirt. "

Those comments, if JM actually made them, using those words, IMO do cross the line. Color me skeptical, though, and throw rocks at me if you'd like.

Again, we aren't talking JM and Knox interacting anywhere remotely private, where JM could furtively sexually harass her without being heard or seen. They were in a courtroom. With Nurmi and Wilmott and the killer lurking a few feet away, bailiffs at hand, TA's family on benches right behind JM, and at some point, with JSS on the bench.

And again, what the Bar has stated about Knox and her supervisor contributes to my skepticism.

JM's comments supposedly escalated beyond shoe-admiring to a level any even semi- legally astute or responsible supervisor in any workplace would find problematic.

Did Knox at this point, then, speak to her supervisor, the one who allegedly warned Knox to avoid flirtatious JM? Nope.

Instead, although Knox claimed JM's escalated
comments made her so uncomfortable that she switched days with another court reporter to avoid JM, she never told her supervisor the reason for the switches, even after her supervisor ordered them both to resume their original schedules.

The most favorable case for these Knox related charges, IMO, is that JM in fact did make Knox uncomfortable. But.

Again an IMO. The first appropriate avenue for addressing the problem of JM making Knox feel uncomfortable would have been for Knox to tell JM that he was making her feel uncomfortable.

Next, if she couldn't do that, was for Knox to speak to her supervisor about JM, ESPECIALLY given how wide open a door that supervisor had left open explicitly on this topic, and explicitly about JM. (Allegedly, anyway).

Third, if the court reporters' supervisor had observed a pattern/history of inappropriate conduct by JM or by any other MCAO attorney, it was her responsibility to have reported that conduct to the Court, and the Court's responsibility to report the conduct to MCAO.

What I don't find remotely appropriate, fair, or reasonable is Knox's complaint being surfaced by the
crusading Karen Clark years after the fact, and being
"handled" as a Bar complaint against JM. And, as egregiously- having Knox's allegations tacked on by Clark to fortify her Bar complaint that had so little foundation or merit the Bar originally dismissed it outright.


Absolutely, it REEKS of a witch hunt Hope.
 
I don’t know whether JM had an affair with JW or anyone else, as they accuse in the bar complaint. I personally don’t care who consenting adults choose to sleep with. The dissemination of confidential information bearing on the trial is an altogether different story. However, I find it disturbing that the people making the initial essential accusations re JW are her former friend, her former husband, her former business partner (that back story is full of drama) and a former juror who admits she sent JM nude pics. All disgruntled people with an agenda. I find it very hard to believe JM would have needed JW’s help digging up dirt on Juror 17 or with any other matter related to the Arias case. He had an office staffed with presumably capable investigators. Whatever names or information JM was privy to, the Defense had access to, or could have dug up dirt on, as well. They’re the far more likely culprits. Clark et al are throwing all this crap at the wall hoping something sticks.
 
208226-1d7a1b53625a2831a7c57128e437eefc.jpg
 
I have in my notes that it is on 4/20.
 

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
151
Guests online
281
Total visitors
432

Forum statistics

Threads
609,614
Messages
18,256,135
Members
234,701
Latest member
investigatorcoldcase
Back
Top