Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #2

[Hope4More]

No guesses about what she bought in size 18? What she drove all the way to Phoenix to buy?

Gonna offer the no doubt highly unpopular opinion (leaving everything else aside, including the larger context and the fact she initiated the evening's plans) that Travis acted like a schmuck for not getting whatever it was that he wanted from Walgreen's.

(dodging now).

 

[geevee]

Correct. Sorry for lousy typing- i'm on a small phone, can't cut and paste and am a lousy typist to start with.

You're doing a wonderful job.

 

[ICit]

A habitual liar is always prepared with an alternate story.

JA put a lot of planning into the murder. Juan pushed in court that she was a stalker.
Why is it so hard to believe that she snuck in and posed for the photos and took them herself? Why is it so hard to believe that she snuck into the house and took photos of Travis naked and asleep and then angry?

I believe the photos showing up were intentional. She had a ready explanation
for Flores when he told her he had the nude photos of her. Travis must have used one of her old memory cards. Remember she also had the roommates same camera in the BMW? Did they check the deleted files in his camera? Perhaps she used it to take the photos and moved them to Travis's camera the day of the killing? Why TWO different memory cards in evidence? Why was she explaining to Flores about the different size memory cards?

The bottom line is, she had a win-win story to explain everything.

If they recovered the sex photos AND DNA then she would say everything was going great until she dropped the camera.

If they did not find any DNA but found the photos then she would say that she and Travis had a secret sex life, which to her would be like killing him all over again.

 

[geevee]

No guesses about what she bought in size 18? What she drove all the way to Phoenix to buy?

Gonna offer the no doubt highly unpopular opinion (leaving everything else aside, including the larger context and the fact she initiated the evening's plans) that Travis acted like a schmuck for not getting whatever it was that he wanted from Walgreen's.

(dodging now).

Did I miss a text post? When did she buy something in size 18? I'm a little lost.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

No guesses about what she bought in size 18? What she drove all the way to Phoenix to buy?

Gonna offer the no doubt highly unpopular opinion (leaving everything else aside, including the larger context and the fact she initiated the evening's plans) that Travis acted like a schmuck for not getting whatever it was that he wanted from Walgreen's.

(dodging now).

Might it have been an "adult" toy store? YIKES, an 18?:shame: I imagine Mesa has stores though, what would be in Phoenix and not Mesa though?

 

[minor4th]

No guesses about what she bought in size 18? What she drove all the way to Phoenix to buy?

Gonna offer the no doubt highly unpopular opinion (leaving everything else aside, including the larger context and the fact she initiated the evening's plans) that Travis acted like a schmuck for not getting whatever it was that he wanted from Walgreen's.

(dodging now).

One thing that has become clear since reading all of these texts - Travis was a "player" of sorts, juggling several women, making sexually provocative comments to several girls during the same time frame; he did exhibit some irrational jealousy directed at Jodi and seemed possessive of her; he was deceptive, not just with Jodi but with many people; he was preoccupied with sex and addicted to Jodi for that reason; and he flew off the handle and demanded no more contact with Jodi with such frequency that it lost any meaning.

He was fallible and imperfect, and after reading these texts, it seems that Jodi wasn't lying about everything I had assumed she was lying about. That doesn't change anything for me, however.

 

[minor4th]

What Travis wanted from Walgreens when Jodi was dressed like a little *advertiser censored* was poprocks and tootsie pops.

 

[Steve44]

A habitual liar is always prepared with an alternate story.

JA put a lot of planning into the murder. Juan pushed in court that she was a stalker.
Why is it so hard to believe that she snuck in and posed for the photos and took them herself? Why is it so hard to believe that she snuck into the house and took photos of Travis naked and asleep and then angry?

I believe the photos showing up were intentional. She had a ready explanation
for Flores when he told her he had the nude photos of her. Travis must have used one of her old memory cards. Remember she also had the roommates same camera in the BMW? Did they check the deleted files in his camera? Perhaps she used it to take the photos and moved them to Travis's camera the day of the killing? Why TWO different memory cards in evidence? Why was she explaining to Flores about the different size memory cards?

The bottom line is, she had a win-win story to explain everything.

It's not impossible to believe she did all the photos herself but it's unlikely IMO.

Flores seemed sure the photos reflected accurately the activities of the day and L.E. was up close and personal with the forensics of the memory card unlike us.

When she offered the alternative explanation of the source of the pics from a previous time and/or another card at the interrogation Flores seemed to indicate that that wasn't possible given the forensics involved. Granted, he could have been bluffing her to get a confession but just because it may have been possible doesn't mean it's any more likely than that they showed what really happened that day.

The fact is she was in his house for many hours that day and they likely had some interaction, sexual or not. I believe it was sexual because that would be part of her manipulation to get him where she wanted him.

As far as the pics being intentional in and of themselves in order to smear his legacy while maintaining her alibi of being nowhere near his house that day, that seems like it would put her entire plan needlessly at risk, when there were clearly other ways to out him after the fact, such as the phone sex tape we know she had.

The conventional scenario just makes much more sense to me. She was in his house, she manipulated him into the shower in a vulnerable position with sex as a precursor to get his guard down and then split, believing in all her Einsteinian Glory that she had left no incriminating evidence behind.

Also, I wasn't aware there were ever two memory cards entered into evidence.

 

[Frigga]

One thing that has become clear since reading all of these texts - Travis was a "player" of sorts, juggling several women, making sexually provocative comments to several girls during the same time frame; he did exhibit some irrational jealousy directed at Jodi and seemed possessive of her; he was deceptive, not just with Jodi but with many people; he was preoccupied with sex and addicted to Jodi for that reason; and he flew off the handle and demanded no more contact with Jodi with such frequency that it lost any meaning.

He was fallible and imperfect, and after reading these texts, it seems that Jodi wasn't lying about everything I had assumed she was lying about. That doesn't change anything for me, however.

Thank you Minor, I agree with your assertion. We know Jodi was hacking his Facebook and email- I'm sure this contributed to her (already present) mental instability. No excuse, just understanding.

 

[Hope4More]

One thing that has become clear since reading all of these texts - Travis was a "player" of sorts, juggling several women, making sexually provocative comments to several girls during the same time frame; he did exhibit some irrational jealousy directed at Jodi and seemed possessive of her; he was deceptive, not just with Jodi but with many people; he was preoccupied with sex and addicted to Jodi for that reason; and he flew off the handle and demanded no more contact with Jodi with such frequency that it lost any meaning.

He was fallible and imperfect, and after reading these texts, it seems that Jodi wasn't lying about everything I had assumed she was lying about. That doesn't change anything for me, however.

I agree, on all counts. The " demanding no contact with her til it lost meaning" is by far the most difficult part of his texts to read. She knew he didn't mean it. For the most part she seems to have simply ignored those declarations when he made them.

As for treating her poorly, which he definitely did upon occasion. As she said to him in the May 26 text- honestly, for once-- whatever harm he had done her was nothing in comparison to the hurt and harm she'd caused him. Maybe it was partly out of convenience that he took her at her word she was good with the friends with benefits arrangement, but he was clear with her what he wanted from her, and she was as clear in expressing to him she enjoyed what they had.

As JM said- there is word in the English language she could have used- NO. Her choice.

I'm not going to post any more texts relating to Travis and sex. I posted what I did to clear up any doubt about whether Travis was still interested in being physical with the killer through March. He was. Posting additional texts on that feels like a gratuitous invasion of his privacy, so I won't.

 

[Steve44]

I agree, on all counts.

Well as a guy I think I'm willing to cut him a little more slack. His Mormon clock was ticking and you can't blame him for wanting to find a sexually compatible partner, and I believe both he and Jodi understood where they stood as far as relationship goes, in spite of any long-term schemes in her mind. Also, he never forced himself on anyone, it seems to me he only took advantage of what was on offer, from whomever.

 

[Wing Ding]

I don't think she tried to plant pics on his camera. Too complicated, risky, and most of all-- unnecessary. If she had them, all she had to do is print out nude pics of herself on T's bed and to leave them in his desk, where she'd know they would be found.

I think the simplest explanation for the pics is that they were taken that day, and the expressions in their faces in the pics tells me neither felt happy whatsoever that day.

I think you may be right on the money, Hope.

I still feel it was her idea to cozy up to him by using all of her feminine charms (such as they are), get naked and take the pics in hopes of getting invited to Cancun, but perhaps also as sort of a swan song to their relationship. She may have also wanted nudie pics of Travis for the purpose of blackmail or revenge at some point in the future, but once she killed him she knew she had to delete them off the camera card altogether (if they hadn't already been deleted by Travis).

But, the naked pics certainly didn't fit into her pre-formulated road trip alibi because all she had to offer Det. Flores was "I fell asleep", "I got lost", "I was nowhere near Mesa", "I wasn't there", "I didn't do it", "if I hurt Travis, I would BEG for the death penalty", yada, yada, yada.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Could E in Hope's text transcriptions above be Jodi?

To me it appears E was a younger girl that had come to a party at his house, but maybe I too am wrong. :thinking:

 

[Hope4More]

Well as a guy I think I'm willing to cut him a little more slack. His Mormon clock was ticking and you can't blame him for wanting to find a sexually compatible partner, and I believe both he and Jodi understood where they stood as far as relationship goes, in spite of any long-term schemes in her mind. Also, he never forced himself on anyone, it seems to me he only took advantage of what was on offer, from whomever.

I don't disagree. I just hadn't finished my thought yet. . See whole post back a page.....

 

[EquallyDivided]

Sheesh, TA's exploits for a 30 year old man are pretty tame if you ask me. No, he wasn't a Saint - but that doesn't make him a devil. Pretty healthy sex drive, not in a monogamous relationship and taking what a woman freely offers is pretty standard for eons! Likewise, I don't begrudge JA for having a healthy sex-drive either. Her intent was in hopes that it would nail him down, but she used her wares to get what she wanted, and he used her offer as a way to satisfy his desires. It's been going on for centuries. I'm just surprised she didn't use pregnancy as a hook.

Now, the stalking and invasion of his personal space and privacy is a WHOLE NOTHA LEVEL!! She cray cray!

Edited to add: I hate the double standards. Yes, he is a man and has desires. Women have them too. Intent and honesty are the only two things that should guide physical relationships.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[Hope4More]

To me it appears E was a younger girl that had come to a party at his house, but maybe I too am wrong. :thinking:

Edited.... E is "all of the above " in one post, and in another post E is a woman Travis met at a party who initiated contact with him.

 

[Steve44]

I don't disagree. I just hadn't finished my thought yet.

Also him changing his age to 33 in convo with C Lay shows a genuine consideration for her, making sure she was OK with an older man. Most 'players' would have tweeked their age the other way to try bed a 20 year old. He was making sure she knew what she was getting into, and also perhaps giving himself a buffer to overcome his commitment issues should they hit it off.

 

[Hope4More]

Also him changing his age to 33 in convo with C Lay shows a genuine consideration for her, making sure she was OK with an older man. Most 'players' would have tweeked their age the other way to try bed a 20 year old. He was making sure she knew what she was getting into, and also perhaps giving himself a buffer to overcome his commitment issues should they hit it off.

I agree. I was actually impressed with his honesty in telling her he wasn't a perfect Mormon. Gave her a chance to run if that bothered her.

 

[Hope4More]

Interim theory, until BK posts the April- June texts.

1. I'm not convinced the killer told him about the sex tape during the May text exchange. (Don't think he would have have allowed her in his house again if she had, and feel even more certain he wouldn't have trusted her enough to allow naked pictures ).

2. It seems he was still angry enough with her to not answer her first many calls from CA on her way to kill him, but 2 longish calls afterwards indicate to me he relented, and likely agreed to have her stop by en route to Ryan's so she could drop off photo CD's, the check, and most important to him- the handwritten copy of his first chapter she had either stolen or neglected to return to him.

3. I think she told him she would arrive in the afternoon, but timed her arrival for around 4am, when she knew he and the roommate would be asleep.

4. I think she snuck into his office first so she could access his computer, read his emails, and plant a virus.

5. I think she went upstairs to avoid being seen by the roommate, but didn't wake up Travis right away.

6. Maybe she went into his bathroom to put the gun and knife in a readily available place he wouldn't notice or check,maybe she also picked up his phone and checked texts to make sure nobody would be dropping by unexpectedly.

7. At some point, midmorning or even later, perhaps, I think she slid into his bed naked. I think she did that to catch him off guard and to make it less likely he would just ask for the things she'd brought and send her on her way.

8. I think her plan worked and they had sex, she took pics, but that Travis wasn't comfortable or happy about any of that.

9. I think he erased the pics the first time she left the room.

10. I think she began to play with him in earnest. Here hon, here are the pics. Let's check them out together before I go.

11. On the computer which now had a virus. She watched him angry about the virus, delighted.

12. Asundry. Check, book chapter, have a swell life chat.

13. I think he thought she had left, went to take a shower, but knew she had returned and knew she was taking pics.

14. I don't want to imagine how he felt then, becsuse I have little doubt he was starting to feel not just irritated but uneasy, if not outright afraid.

15. I think she pointed the gun at him just before the sitting poses, because I absolutely don't believe Travis the germ-o-phobic would ever have willingly sat down in the shower.



In the end I think he surprised and infuriated her even more by not dying where and how quickly she had planned. Don't know about why she left the camera and card but believe she was arrogant enough to think she had pulled off the perfect murder.

 

[Wing Ding]

JA put a lot of planning into the murder. A habitual liar is always prepared with an alternate story. If they recovered the sex photos AND DNA then she would say everything was going great until she dropped the camera.

Well, she did eventually settle on the camera excuse, but after how many years had gone by? I tend to place more value on her first formal interview with Det. Flores in Yreka. The one where she didn't have ANY excuse for herself.

But, yes, she certainly demonstrated a lot of pre-planning of the murder, just not enough post-planning. I mean she didn't even think that L.E. would connect a stolen .25 Auto from her grandparents' house to the very caliber (and thus, very likely the same gun) that Travis was shot and killed with. Was that arrogance or naivety on her part? And if Nurmi said one right thing in 2+ years in court it was "if she wanted to kill Travis, why not just shoot him and leave?" Why indeed. But no, she was at his Travis' for more than 12 hours which I think pushed her expected arrival time in Utah back by almost 24 hours. Did she WANT to get caught?