Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #2

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Troy Hayden ‏@troyhaydenfox10 · 18h18 hours ago
#JodiArias ordered to pay $32k to Alexanders. They will get 20% of her jail funds til debt is paid, if ever.

So does that mean now she can barter from people sending care packages of items? I do not know how that works, but from what I have read here, that is the norm .. people barter
 
I care about this stuff, too Geevee - and I'm a 'techie' and found the testimony very frustrating - Neumeister especially. IIRC, BN testified only in the evidentiary hearings, made a lot of snide comments, and incorrect statements, then said he hadn't actually done the computer analyses, but two of his people had done it - one being "John Smith aka Pseudonym" (whose testimony I had all kinds of problems with).

I've used Spybot S&D many times, and did use it in 2008 with a Windows XP computer. One of it's benefits is to 'immunize' your machine the same way you get immunized for childhood diseases - by putting reference to known bad sites on your computer, to prevent the real bad sites from intrusive behavior. JM was right about this, and one of his witnesses said so later (I think it was Det. Brown, but it could have been the Det. Smith).

Anyway, when Pseudonym testified, he said he used a program called "Autopsy", which is freeware, and open source (so it can be customized/changed by a user if they like - which also means different users can get different results) , but Det. Brown (or Det Smith) testified that "autopsy' has a number of flaws - one in particular an issue with DST and time zones.
So BN' was giving second hand information that wasn't accurate, IMO. Even if BN had been accurate, the picture time stamps came from the camera, not the computer - which Travis had recently purchased and used, so the date and time were likely correct, IMO

Sorry for babbling about this, but no one ever talks about this stuff!
Grrr, I just lost a long post, it just disappeared! I was able to retrieve part of it, so I apologize if this is oddly worded.

PS- I also wonder what what was on the CMJA external drive - as well as her laptop (I think both were damaged) - it had to be pretty bad, JMO - but we'll never know. BN should have 'autopsied" that drive, being the expert he is.

Hiya NotMyself, yes, BN's testimony is very frustrating, whatever his computer expertise is, it doesn't seem to be in the area of what he was charged with doing or testifying to, he wasn't apprised of the Immunize feature of Spybot so had no idea of its capabilities, and apparently neither of his compadres knew anything about it either so that they could enlighten him prior to him sounding foolish and/or uninformed.

I haven't gotten to 'Mr. Smith's' testimony yet, I've been watching the videos in order so I don't have to do much 'Wait what?' backtracking, I'm up to the 12/11/14 hearing (court testimony last day before hearings began, Day 13 I think) - am I correct in presuming Mr. Smith's testimony is on the courtroom cameras the same as JA's was? I'd hate to have to go back over tweets from then to refresh my memory of whatever he said. It seems like the only programs these three used were freeware, for whatever the defense paid them you'd think they could afford some heavy duty, paid-for utilities.

My point about Spybot and the pics is, the mention before that Spybot was run at 1:44 p.m. on June 4th is the same time as one of the nude pics was timestamped, if Spybot had been manually accessed then the pic couldn't have been taken of JA's privates by T at the same time, but unless something gets brought up later about that occurrence all we have is an "access" file of Spybot appearing on 6/04/08 with no clarity if the program was manually used. I still doubt that Travis would have set up Spybot to run a scan beginning at 1:44 p.m. daily (too odd of a time) but I suppose it's possible it may have updated itself - did Spybot have that capability then, if you remember?
 
Respectfully, it is one per week, but whether or not she's had any is questionable since they say it takes up to 60 days to approve visitors. She was also in SplMgt for a little while before she was reclassified, so I would think that would have delayed her getting 1st visitation as well? BTW, the chart for Lumley incentives does say phase 2 & 3 can earn longer visitation and eventually contact visits, but the following order says that doesn't apply to Max inmates.

DOC Order 911, revised May 2015:


I trust you're right about visits. Sorry for incorrect info above....sorry to post incorrect info and even sorrier that the info is incorrect and she'll get weekly visits far earlier than she would have if policy hadn't just been changed.

My info was from a Lumley rule handbook dated March 2014, which I still have in stored downloads. A reminder to me to wipe her out of all my systems and resume a completely post-butcherer existence now that even that mini minute mini show on restitution is over.

PS. Nurmi ought to give that a shot. Trying to sell an ebook via CMJA hashtag on Twitter about anything, much less about losing weight, is beyond revolting.
 
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree with your position in this matter.

Warning: I have prepared a rant in an effort to explain why I feel this way. Therefore, some readers may want to skip directly to the last paragraph of this post.

In the end, perhaps because it was the total of the receipts given to the court by JM, JSS has decided to grant the entire family less than $4,572.00 for each of the seven years (or about $915.00 per sibling) to cover their expenses related to travel and housing and food in AZ during the trial. To compare, ALV got $11,000 for one week of conducting interviews with the killer in jail. ALV, however, is being paid by the State of Arizona so she will be paid in full. The family, on the other hand, is being paid by a lying psychopathic loser with few financial resources and, essentially, no ability or desire to ever make a substantial payment on her debt.
Snipped by me for bandwidth. When you compare the restitution amount 'awarded' to the Alexanders to the millions that were paid to the murderer's defense team, it really is a joke. :facepalm:
 
Hiya NotMyself, yes, BN's testimony is very frustrating, whatever his computer expertise is, it doesn't seem to be in the area of what he was charged with doing or testifying to, he wasn't apprised of the Immunize feature of Spybot so had no idea of its capabilities, and apparently neither of his compadres knew anything about it either so that they could enlighten him prior to him sounding foolish and/or uninformed.

I haven't gotten to 'Mr. Smith's' testimony yet, I've been watching the videos in order so I don't have to do much 'Wait what?' backtracking, I'm up to the 12/11/14 hearing (court testimony last day before hearings began, Day 13 I think) - am I correct in presuming Mr. Smith's testimony is on the courtroom cameras the same as JA's was? I'd hate to have to go back over tweets from then to refresh my memory of whatever he said. It seems like the only programs these three used were freeware, for whatever the defense paid them you'd think they could afford some heavy duty, paid-for utilities.

My point about Spybot and the pics is, the mention before that Spybot was run at 1:44 p.m. on June 4th is the same time as one of the nude pics was timestamped, if Spybot had been manually accessed then the pic couldn't have been taken of JA's privates by T at the same time, but unless something gets brought up later about that occurrence all we have is an "access" file of Spybot appearing on 6/04/08 with no clarity if the program was manually used. I still doubt that Travis would have set up Spybot to run a scan beginning at 1:44 p.m. daily (too odd of a time) but I suppose it's possible it may have updated itself - did Spybot have that capability then, if you remember?

Hi Geevee;
Yes, I'm fairly certain that 'Pseudonym' testimony was in a FTR recording, like all the others - I think he wasn't shown, though - just the Judge and lawyers. I'm taking a look to see if I can pinpoint the day for you, haven't found it yet. I believe it was in the first part of January. I'm looking at Jan 8, 2015 (Day 19) now, and it looks like they're leading up to it, so I believe it's around that date.
ETA: found it! it's Day 19, #2 of 3, on CrimeTimeVids (aka David Lohr) you tube page.

It's been a while since I watched BN testimony, but my recollection is that he was talking about things he knew very little about, and most of what he said was based on what others told him, and he didn't seem to have a good understanding of that (despite his snarky attitude).

As far as I recall about Spybot, you could allow it to do auto updates, as well as auto scans. If you selected it at a given time, it would default to the current time, but you could change the time to something more convenient (like early morning, or late night).
So if Travis had set Spybot up at 1:44PM, and chose to auto update or scan say, every 24 hours (or whatever) - yes, as long as the computer was on, it could certainly have been non-user generated activity at that time.

I'm not at all certain that BN or Pseudonym's times were accurate, though.
In my opinion, Lonnie Dworkin (who was originally a defense witness), and the two Detectives were much more reliable, and used LE accepted software that would (or should) yeild comparable results, regardless of who used it.
There isn't anything wrong with using alternative programs, in ADDITION to acceped software, as long as the results can be proven to be accurate when compared to others. IOW, if you begin with A (the original drive), LE software shows B, and you analyze the data to arrive at C, you have to account for all differences between the data, and explain the differences. At a minimum, you would have to account for all data differences between A and C.
IMO, BN, and his "team' did not do that at all, but instead presented non verifiable times and activity that was not correct, nor did they prove it to be accurate. JMO

I hope that helps!
 
So does that mean now she can barter from people sending care packages of items? I do not know how that works, but from what I have read here, that is the norm .. people barter
People can't send her care packages - she can only receive letters, funds to her account via electronic transfer or securepak orders (which can only come from her approved visit list people). Securepaks are ordered from the approved vendor who offers a list of items, according the the inmate's allowed amts & restrictions - Max inmates are restricted from receiving several items others can get. Bartering is, I'm sure, accomplished occasionally in spite of the CO's watching for it, but probably not in Max. It's a big issue in prisons and from what I've read they've really cracked down on it - that's part of the reason restrictions have been placed on how funds are received, what can be in mail, and not being able to receive goods/food other than through securepak.

Hope4More I think quite a few of AZ's changes are a result of the ACLU/AZ DOC lawsuit and other's in other states re: solitary. Justice Kennedy just included quite a lengthy commentary about it on a Supreme Court decision the other day, even though the issue on appeal wasn't related to it. There are a lot of people working to bring an end to or to soften solitary of late.
 
People can't send her care packages - she can only receive letters, funds to her account via electronic transfer or securepak orders (which can only come from her approved visit list people). Securepaks are ordered from the approved vendor who offers a list of items, according the the inmate's allowed amts & restrictions - Max inmates are restricted from receiving several items others can get. Bartering is, I'm sure, accomplished occasionally in spite of the CO's watching for it, but probably not in Max. It's a big issue in prisons and from what I've read they've really cracked down on it - that's part of the reason restrictions have been placed on how funds are received, what can be in mail, and not being able to receive goods/food other than through securepak.

Hope4More I think quite a few of AZ's changes are a result of the ACLU/AZ DOC lawsuit and other's in other states re: solitary. Justice Kennedy just included quite a lengthy commentary about it on a Supreme Court decision the other day, even though the issue on appeal wasn't related to it. There are a lot of people working to bring an end to or to soften solitary of late.

So given this information, is it fair to assume that this convicted murderer's fans are likely to go with securepak to prevent any money going toward restitution?
 
Difference of opinion, when expressed respectfully, leads to good discussion so please do not ever feel you need to say you are sorry for disagreeing, at least with whatever I post.

My position remains the same: Alexanders and the state are entitled to claim their losses. Arias should be ordered to pay for any losses still outstanding. If what might be still outstanding is in question, I have no problem with her attorney asking for clarification.

And...I am not sorry that I feel this way. It does not mean I sympathize with the killer or even that I believe she is asking for the information for the right reasons. It only means I believe it is not completely improper for her to ask.

Carry on.

There's always a need for a Devil's advocate--pick a side, any side. LOL
I appreciate being able to pitch ideas and then have the chance (probably more like the need) to defend them.
Discussing this made me become really specific about how I felt when I learned about JW's request and why I felt that way.
So, your comments are much appreciated.

opinion.jpg
 
Hi Geevee;
Yes, I'm fairly certain that 'Pseudonym' testimony was in a FTR recording, like all the others - I think he wasn't shown, though - just the Judge and lawyers. I'm taking a look to see if I can pinpoint the day for you, haven't found it yet. I believe it was in the first part of January. I'm looking at Jan 8, 2015 (Day 19) now, and it looks like they're leading up to it, so I believe it's around that date.
ETA: found it! it's Day 19, #2 of 3, on CrimeTimeVids (aka David Lohr) you tube page.

It's been a while since I watched BN testimony, but my recollection is that he was talking about things he knew very little about, and most of what he said was based on what others told him, and he didn't seem to have a good understanding of that (despite his snarky attitude).

As far as I recall about Spybot, you could allow it to do auto updates, as well as auto scans. If you selected it at a given time, it would default to the current time, but you could change the time to something more convenient (like early morning, or late night).
So if Travis had set Spybot up at 1:44PM, and chose to auto update or scan say, every 24 hours (or whatever) - yes, as long as the computer was on, it could certainly have been non-user generated activity at that time.

I'm not at all certain that BN or Pseudonym's times were accurate, though.
In my opinion, Lonnie Dworkin (who was originally a defense witness), and the two Detectives were much more reliable, and used LE accepted software that would (or should) yeild comparable results, regardless of who used it.
There isn't anything wrong with using alternative programs, in ADDITION to acceped software, as long as the results can be proven to be accurate when compared to others. IOW, if you begin with A (the original drive), LE software shows B, and you analyze the data to arrive at C, you have to account for all differences between the data, and explain the differences. At a minimum, you would have to account for all data differences between A and C.
IMO, BN, and his "team' did not do that at all, but instead presented non verifiable times and activity that was not correct, nor did they prove it to be accurate. JMO

I hope that helps!

Oh cool, I'm just days away from his testimony (doubtfully I'll feel as excited while watching it lol). Your memory is correct about BN, it was obvious he had little experiential knowledge about the vast majority he was testifying to, in my mind, if you (in this case BN) can't explain something you know to someone who doesn't (his constant complaints to JM about not understanding computers) then you really don't understand it all that well yourself - his condescension just seemed to be a cover for his own lack of grasp of the issues and not being able to explain the results he got.

I also think LD was much more reliable and agree with your other points about different software, at the mo Det. Perry Smith is testifying about the Incinerator program that BN denied existance of, BN didn't know because BN didn't do the work and couldn't explain what was done or used, just that it was "loaded with *advertiser censored* and viruses". So he used MalwareBytes and SUPERAntispyware to "reverse engineer" the viruses - what, did it get the file name and look it up at Kapersky or Sophos? No, imo he was trying to track back where certain *advertiser censored* viruses came from and then state emphatically that T visited those sites and then used a scrubber to cover it up. He didn't even know most of those 'scrubbers' were malware themselves. Brother.

Thanks for the explanation about Spybot, I was hoping there was more info about that access that the tweeters hadn't picked up on, and I don't recall further mention of it, unless during 'Mr. Smith's' testimony, guess I'll see when I get there. I've just been watching spurts of it in the evenings after the theater shooting trial is done for the day but now with this 5 day break I've been able to get through a decent amount of it.

Thanks again!
 
Snipped by me for bandwidth. When you compare the restitution amount 'awarded' to the Alexanders to the millions that were paid to the murderer's defense team, it really is a joke. :facepalm:

So sadly true.
 
In the last thead (auto correct is not your friend sometimes ) about Jodi and what she believes as truth. If you go back to her journal, and look in at the ones for August and September, she writes about making up her own truth . And she then wrote what if several times.
 
People can't send her care packages - she can only receive letters, funds to her account via electronic transfer or securepak orders (which can only come from her approved visit list people). Securepaks are ordered from the approved vendor who offers a list of items, according the the inmate's allowed amts & restrictions - Max inmates are restricted from receiving several items others can get. Bartering is, I'm sure, accomplished occasionally in spite of the CO's watching for it, but probably not in Max. It's a big issue in prisons and from what I've read they've really cracked down on it - that's part of the reason restrictions have been placed on how funds are received, what can be in mail, and not being able to receive goods/food other than through securepak.

Hope4More I think quite a few of AZ's changes are a result of the ACLU/AZ DOC lawsuit and other's in other states re: solitary. Justice Kennedy just included quite a lengthy commentary about it on a Supreme Court decision the other day, even though the issue on appeal wasn't related to it. There are a lot of people working to bring an end to or to soften solitary of late.

Re your last paragraph. You might want to check out the case of Kalief Bowder's tragedy. Kept in solitary for three years WITHOUT A TRIAL in Rikers Island.
 
So given this information, is it fair to assume that this convicted murderer's fans are likely to go with securepak to prevent any money going toward restitution?
Only the people approved as visitors can send securepaks now, so fwik about her fans, very few (if any) qualify. They can send her $ by EFT, but those funds are subject to restitution

Re your last paragraph. You might want to check out the case of Kalief Bowder's tragedy. Kept in solitary for three years WITHOUT A TRIAL in Rikers Island.
Yes, that was a sad case and probably what prompted the remarks made in the decision. IIRC Justice Kennedy mentioned him in his comments.
 
Only the people approved as visitors can send securepaks now, so fwik about her fans, very few (if any) qualify. They can send her $ by EFT, but those funds are subject to restitution


Yes, that was a sad case and probably what prompted the remarks made in the decision. IIRC Justice Kennedy mentioned him in his comments.

I haven't read Kennedy's comments--I'll have to do that now. Thx LinTX
 
Jen Wood/TrialDiaries was on Kinsey & Troy's broadcast yesterday. She said it was very odd how JW was just hanging around the hallway by herself after the hearing, very near all the reporters who remained visiting/talking. None of them had ever seen the DT do that when Nurmi was on the case. Finally, after 20 min or so, one asked her if she'd do an interview, and right away JW revealed info about how much more the Alexanders had asked for. Apparently sev'l of the reporters were shocked because that was sealed information. I read Kiefer's article where he says that JW had gone over the figures/receipts herself and I'm wondering if she thinks that makes it ok to disclose the info? Or maybe she just assumes that no one will call it to JSS's attention, or that JSS wouldn't act on it anyway...
 
Cathy ‏@courtchatter · 39s39 seconds ago
Reminder: The Alexanders still have a wrongful death civil case against #jodiarias and will ask for monetary damages

Oh thank god, I got confused thinking "that's it?!" Forgot about the civil trial. *nod
 
I think two hour visits are too long for max custody inmates. I don't trust the intentions of anyone who drives out to see her for two hours. Her fans seem to be guided towards cashing in for her. And I am not yet certain we should trust the system or financial forensics to find all those accounts set up for her. Anyone know the exact process for this or who does it? Are global accounts able to be forked over in balance terms?
 
Jen Wood/TrialDiaries was on Kinsey & Troy's broadcast yesterday. She said it was very odd how JW was just hanging around the hallway by herself after the hearing, very near all the reporters who remained visiting/talking. None of them had ever seen the DT do that when Nurmi was on the case. Finally, after 20 min or so, one asked her if she'd do an interview, and right away JW revealed info about how much more the Alexanders had asked for. Apparently sev'l of the reporters were shocked because that was sealed information. I read Kiefer's article where he says that JW had gone over the figures/receipts herself and I'm wondering if she thinks that makes it ok to disclose the info? Or maybe she just assumes that no one will call it to JSS's attention, or that JSS wouldn't act on it anyway...



Or maybe JW views this as a victory of her legal expertise/wizardry in that SHE got the total JA had to pay reduced by 2/3rds. She might have wanted to gloat and toot her own horn.
 
So does that mean now she can barter from people sending care packages of items? I do not know how that works, but from what I have read here, that is the norm .. people barter

"Care packages" come via Secure Pak. The choices are very limited (there's jalapeño in just about everything, but too bad the tampons escape this general flavoring) and are purchased and shipped directly from Secure Pak. Inmates are only allowed a specified number of these a year, depending on their privileges. Jodi will maybe be able to get one a quarter or so for the first years (or something like that), and the dollar cost is restricted depending on phase. Max inmates are not allowed food that must be heated or warmed.

The Secure Pak is the only way Jodi can get goodies that is protected from the restitution percentage. I had read that percentage is quite a bit higher (50% ?) than the 20% cited by TH. Anyone know for sure? The restitution amount is deducted by the state automatically.

For details on the Secure Pak "shopping list", see the link for "Download Order Form" here: https://www.accesscatalog.com/shop/main.html?ProgramID=64&FacilityID=4037&view=loginregister&CatID= You can get the order form without registering. The items are expensive.

In light of the prison escape in NY, I would guess that more restrictions are going to be placed on prison inmates nationwide. This is a lurvely thought, since Jodi might be the "beneficiary" of lesser privileges.
 
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