Sentencing and beyond- Jodi Arias General Discussion #4

[RickshawFan]

Her taking advantage of all those perks in their relationship is how she used him.

They used each other. But it was consensual. I do not think there was malice involved in that aspect of their relationship. I do think Jodi did some malicious things but as far as the sexual part of their friendship, they used each other. As you say, though, sometimes it's a matter of definition of the term. IOW, some people believe there is always disrespect involved in taking from another in a relationship. There is sometimes, but not always.

Just my take on things...by no means do I mean others must agree.

I don't think Travis was using Jodi. What he did was consensual. What she did was not.

 

[Hope4More]

Her taking advantage of all those perks in their relationship is how she used him.

They used each other. But it was consensual. I do not think there was malice involved in that aspect of their relationship. I do think Jodi did some malicious things but as far as the sexual part of their friendship, they used each other. As you say, though, sometimes it's a matter of definition of the term. IOW, some people believe there is always disrespect involved in taking from another in a relationship. There is sometimes, but not always.

Just my take on things...by no means do I mean others must agree.

It's all good. Differences in opinion about what words mean always fascinates me. And makes me marvel that any jury ever reaches an unanimous verdict in any case.

 

[Hope4More]

I hope everyone experiencing extreme weather conditions are all cosy and warm.

Regarding Juan Martinez' book, I'll be surprised if it is not a best-seller. People followed the case all over the world. I'm in Europe and can't wait to get a copy.

The only thing interesting about Arias is the extent of her evil. A vicious psychopath brazenly and shamelessly manoeuvring to avoid paying for slaughtering a young man proved fascinating. Few of us, thank heaven, will ever encounter such a monster. She was a study in human psychology - the darkest side - right before our eyes.

In contrast. Juan Martinez, Detective Flores and Travis' family illustrated hope, justice and light. This was a battle between good and evil - close up, real, a few clicks away.

Juan's brilliance clawed Travis back from Arias' attempts to claim him, portray him. I have never seen a more compelling, magnificent prosecutor - in the shape of an everyday, normal guy. Juan Martinez didn't set out to be a hero. Justice for Travis was his aim. To many he is heroic and I hope his book sells millions.

Really beautifully written.

 

[Hope4More]

I can believe they were working towards being bf/gf during the first few months after they met in Sept., 2006, but it didn't sound to me like it ever, at any time, developed into a committed relationship. I just think that when she moved TO Mesa from Palm Desert, after that initial "getting-to-know-you" phase in 2006, she wanted to do nice things for him, and he let her. And he wanted to share expenses on road trips and conventions, and she let him. They may have had an understanding with each other about their "special friendship", but I don't think they were ever bf/gf in the classic sense. If anything they were only kinda-sorta bf/gf by default because neither was involved with anyone else. So maybe Jodi was Travis' dirty little secret after all. Why deny it? He didn't want her in his life, but she and her three holes wouldn't go away. What's a feller to do???

The killer hated Travis. Thanks to DeMarte, I think I understand (intellectually, anyway) her desire to destroy him absolutely, point by point, and in direct response to what she perceived had been his "abuses" of her.

I think her "dirty little secret" savaging of him stemmed in no small part from being excluded from the many parties and gatherings Travis had in his home. He invited guy friends and women who were just friends, but never her, even though they were still having sex sometimes.

Because nothing---ever ever ever ---is her fault or responsibility, she interpreted that exclusion as Travis being hypocritical and abusive, IMO. Actually, I think Travis might well have welcomed her as a friend to those gatherings if ever he could trust she'd act appropriately. She never did. She slobbered all over him, never let go of him-literally, even tailing him to the bathroom, ignored his other friends, and acted bored by one and all if she wasn't the center of attention.

Don't blame him one little bit .


And BTW....I honestly can't think of a single "nice thing" she ever did for him, or of a single time she wrote in her journal or in a text to him that she wanted to do so.

 

[Wing Ding]

I don't think Travis was using Jodi. What he did was consensual. What she did was not.

Very true. Also, whatever Travis did with Jodi (physically) was almost always at her suggestion. He knew the Laws of Chastity, but struggled to respect those boundaries because of her permissiveness. And while Jodi also knew those same boundaries, she disregarded them for her own personal reasons (whether as a means to marriage, or to keep him captive in some sort of a relationship he didn't want with her while she chased away his potential love-interests). Just when I begin to think she was the only one who never knew she wasn't really his girlfriend, I then think she actually did know that and that's when she set-out to punish him for it. As if slashing the tires on his car, threatening his girlfriends and hacking into his social media accounts is going to endear herself to him. What an evil woman.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Madonna-*advertiser censored* Complex: :thinking:


A man with a madonna-*advertiser censored* complex is a man who will sleep with and lust for a sexual and beautiful woman but he will never respect her as "wife" material and he will never marry her. In his eyes, she is tainted, impure, unworthy of the status of wife---yet he may possess passionate and contradictory feelings for her. He may even be in love with her but will never allow himself to be with her in any real sense.

He will look for a "good girl" to marry---usually a woman who is cold sexually but, for example, is good at "wifely" domestic things: cooking, cleaning, homemaking in general, etc. A proper, pure "madonna" type woman who will bear his children.

 

[Wing Ding]

And BTW....I honestly can't think of a single "nice thing" she ever did for him, or of a single time she wrote in her journal or in a text to him that she wanted to do so.

There was a post somewhere around here that mentioned she actually returned the engagement ring that she had stolen from him. But other than that, though (if true)... not one nice thing. At least not for the sake of doing something without the expectation of something in return from him.

 

[krkrjx]

Really beautifully written.

I agree and think that should be post of the day.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Yikes, is this a nutjob or what? He is tweeting some serious accusations. I think he used to run a website supporting the butcheress'. I know he posts BS on the vile site too.


FWIW...I read that Enrique is supposed to be on the "Dr." Phil show too.


Don't know if this is a no- no, but if so please delete.

https://twitter.com/333wgriz

 

[krkrjx]

I don't think Travis was using Jodi. What he did was consensual. What she did was not.

Certainly she used him for money, travel, maybe even for sex but I am not convinced sex was important to her other than for purposes of manipulation. And he consented to it all.

He did not consent to being stalked, having his tires slashed, his privacy invaded, and so on. And he never expected to pay for any of it with his life.

She is a psychopath and many people who get involved with one do not realize it until it is too late. I think Travis cared about Jodi at first. I do think he enjoyed the sex and knew that she could provide that for him in a way that no one else in his circle could or would. And in that, he used her for sex. But not out of disrespect. And not out of malice. He cared for her as a friend and wanted things to work out for her but came to realize that they were not a good fit marriage-wise. And that is when he began placating more than using, giving to meet her demands more than his own needs. I think he knew he was in over his head but was not sure what to do about it. He was no longer using by then, and it wasn't even friends with benefits anymore...it was him trying to survive while he figured out how to extricate himself from her clutches. He became increasingly afraid of her, imo, but he should have been more than merely afraid. I think deep in his heart he knew the score, but did not trust his own intuition. Had he done so, he might be alive today.

 

[RickshawFan]

Madonna-*advertiser censored* Complex: :thinking:


A man with a madonna-*advertiser censored* complex is a man who will sleep with and lust for a sexual and beautiful woman but he will never respect her as "wife" material and he will never marry her. In his eyes, she is tainted, impure, unworthy of the status of wife---yet he may possess passionate and contradictory feelings for her. He may even be in love with her but will never allow himself to be with her in any real sense.

He will look for a "good girl" to marry---usually a woman who is cold sexually but, for example, is good at "wifely" domestic things: cooking, cleaning, homemaking in general, etc. A proper, pure "madonna" type woman who will bear his children.

Well, there is a "complex" under this description out there. It has been around since the Greek gods (think Helen of Troy, Aphrodite). But it is extremely sexist, IMO. There is no room for competence, sexuality, beauty, brains, all rolled into one: think, Cleopatra, who gets cast pretty much as a man slayer. Then there is the "if you have brains, you must be asexual" syndrome.

I don't think Travis had the Madonna-*advertiser censored* complex thing going with Jodi. a) she wasn't appropriate wife material because murderers are not appropriate wives, and b) he would never have thought of her as a friend if he had c) I don't think he saw the world quite so simply, especially in regards to Jodi. If he had, he might still be alive.

I'm thinking the LDS church would prepare a man to believe in the madonna-*advertiser censored* dichotomy, but Travis was struggling precisely because he couldn't get the dichotomy to work.

Besides that, we aren't in agreement that Jodi is not at all beautiful? That maybe Travis liked her kind of sexuality, but it might oit be for everyone, and that even he couldn't stand it in the end because he felt used? That maybe Jodi was old-fashioned when it came to sex, since she doesn't seem to have had original fantasies in that regard or been even vaguely familiar with the current offerings of a "good vibrations" kind of store? Jodi's was some kind of plagiarized sexuality?

 

[RickshawFan]

Yikes, is this a nutjob or what? He is tweeting some serious accusations. I think he used to run a website supporting the butcheress'. I know he posts BS on the vile site too.


FWIW...I read that Enrique is supposed to be on the "Dr." Phil show too.


Don't know if this is a no- no, but if so please delete.

https://twitter.com/333wgriz

Who is Enrique?

 

[Hope4More]

Very true. Also, whatever Travis did with Jodi (physically) was almost always at her suggestion. He knew the Laws of Chastity, but struggled to respect those boundaries because of her permissiveness. And while Jodi also knew those same boundaries, she disregarded them for her own personal reasons (whether as a means to marriage, or to keep him captive in some sort of a relationship he didn't want with her while she chased away his potential love-interests). Just when I begin to think she was the only one who never knew she wasn't really his girlfriend, I then think she actually did know that and that's when she set-out to punish him for it. As if slashing the tires on his car, threatening his girlfriends and hacking into his social media accounts is going to endear herself to him. What an evil woman.

In the fall and winter of 2007 the killer occasionally wrote in her journal she felt regret she'd been forced to snoop his phone in June 2007, just as he was about to propose to her (in her letter to his family she doubled down and said Travis DID propose to her, right after she confronted him).

By January-February 2008 she stopped expressing regret and began writing that even if she had made different decisions, nothing good would have resulted because Travis was incapable of monogamy.

By the end of March 2008 she had developed her final version of the lie she told herself and anyone who would listen: SHE was the better Mormon. SHE was responsible for choosing to leave Mesa to reclaim her spiritual purity, and allowing Travis the opportunity at least, to repent and to be true to his faith. That he didn't repent and stay 100% chaste just made her decision to leave all the wiser, to save herself at least from his bad influence.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

There was a post somewhere around here that mentioned she actually returned the engagement ring that she had stolen from him. But other than that, though (if true)... not one nice thing. At least not for the sake of doing something without the expectation of something in return from him.

I think she "borrowed", *umm stole* that ring to show others, with the lie that Travis had proposed to her. What a very sick, twisted and evil waste of oxygen she was/is ... dangerously sick!!


Hope, do you recall when the ring came up missing?

 

[RickshawFan]

In the fall and winter of 2007 the killer occasionally wrote in her journal she felt regret she'd been forced to snoop his phone in June 2007, just as he was about to propose to her (in her letter to his family she doubled down and said Travis DID propose to her, right after she confronted him).

The possibility that he might propose to her was all a figment of her imagination, though, no?

 

[I'mjazzed]

Who is Enrique?

The roommate maybe? not sure if that's who she meant.

 

[Hope4More]

Who is Enrique?

His roommate of 2 weeks at the time of the murder.

 

[Hope4More]

I think she "borrowed", *umm stole* that ring to show others, with the lie that Travis had proposed to her. What a very sick, twisted and evil waste of oxygen she was/is ... dangerously sick!!


Hope, do you recall when the ring came up missing?

Travis noticed the ring was stolen on March 18, the day after they returned from OKC convention. She stole his journal either right before the same convention or at the convention.

I'm still writing up the last part of a March timeline, but the preview is I think she was in full BPD fury during the convention. They left for OKC the day after she returned from Yreka, that weekend when he didn't text her to ask if she'd arrived safely and didn't answer her texts for one whole day.

He picked her up at the airport on Sunday night and drove her straight to her rented room, dropped her off, and went home to text lame jokes to his friends and to complain he was bored.

She had his journal when they were in OKC. The odds she didn't read it are about zero. Poof went the journal and poof went the ring.

 

[Hope4More]

The possibility that he might propose to her was all a figment of her imagination, though, no?

Totally that.

 

[lewcch3]

Yikes, is this a nutjob or what? He is tweeting some serious accusations. I think he used to run a website supporting the butcheress'. I know he posts BS on the vile site too.


FWIW...I read that Enrique is supposed to be on the "Dr." Phil show too.


Don't know if this is a no- no, but if so please delete.

https://twitter.com/333wgriz

Nutjob is right. BTW, I thought the appeal funds could not be used for anything other than her appeals? Strange that first post on twitter says a portion of the fund will be donated to cancer. Hope this means the Alexanders can break the trust and get their just due financially!