Serious DNA discussion

[Chrishope]

Um, I'm still confused here, Hat. If you put "military" in the search term, you're going to get lot's of "military" hits.

You're also going to get lots of military stuff on "burial" or "proper burial" because the military has much bigger problems with remains than the civilian population. It's rare in the civilian world that the body isn't available for proper burial.

I'm sorry, but having served 12 years in the armed forces, I'm still completely unconvinced by your googling efforts. IMO nothing in the note indicates military experience, or lack thereof.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Um, I'm still confused here, Hat. If you put "military" in the search term, you're going to get lot's of "military" hits.

You're also going to get lots of military stuff on "burial" or "proper burial" because the military has much bigger problems with remains than the civilian population. It's rare in the civilian world that the body isn't available for proper burial.

I'm sorry, but having served 12 years in the armed forces, I'm still completely unconvinced by your googling efforts. IMO nothing in the note indicates military experience, or lack thereof.

Here you are yourself stating that proper burial and remains are a military topic!!

 

[Chrishope]

Here you are yourself stating that proper burial and remains are a military topic!!

Sure it's a military topic. It's a common problem in war.

If you google tank, or B1 bomber, no surprise you'll get lot's of military related hits. This doesn't mean civilians never talk about tanks or B1s.

Show me your search terms - using only the words in the RN, and don't put "military" in front of them. The only things that will get you lots of military hits are things that effect the military differently than civilians.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Sure it's a military topic. It's a common problem in war.

If you google tank, or B1 bomber, no surprise you'll get lot's of military related hits. This doesn't mean civilians never talk about tanks or B1s.

Show me your search terms - using only the words in the RN, and don't put "military" in front of them. The only things that will get you lots of military hits are things that effect the military differently than civilians.

The object was to find vocabulary used in a military context. I was able to find all these ransom note words used in a military context quite easily. Granted RN words are not as telling as some of the RN expressions. In the interest of fairness,

search term: military "proper burial" 42100
search term: journalism "proper burial" 5920
search term: religion "proper burial" 32700 (close but no cigar)

search term: military "tactics and countermeasures" 979
search term: journalism "tactics and countermeasures" 119
search term: religion "tactics and countermeasures" 355

search term: military "listen carefully" 174000
search term: journalism "listen carefully" 33100
search term: religion "listen carefully" 249000

search term: military "foreign faction" 1680
search term: journalism "foreign faction" 323
search term: religion "foreign faction" 1300

search term: military "safe and unharmed" 7950
search term: journalism "safe and unharmed" 814
search term: religion "safe and unharmed" 2130

search term: military "remains for a proper burial" 80
search term: journalism "remains for a proper burial" 14
search term: religion "remains for a proper burial" 7

search term: military "follow our instructions to the letter" 67
search term: journalism "follow our instructions to the letter" 38
search term: religion "follow our instructions to the letter" 17

You could add journalism and religion together if that helps.

 

[Chrishope]

The object was to find vocabulary used in a military context. I was able to find all these ransom note words used in a military context quite easily. Granted RN words are not as telling as some of the RN expressions. In the interest of fairness,

search term: military "proper burial" 42100
search term: journalism "proper burial" 5920
search term: religion "proper burial" 32700 (close but no cigar)

search term: military "tactics and countermeasures" 979
search term: journalism "tactics and countermeasures" 119
search term: religion "tactics and countermeasures" 355

search term: military "listen carefully" 174000
search term: journalism "listen carefully" 33100
search term: religion "listen carefully" 249000

search term: military "foreign faction" 1680
search term: journalism "foreign faction" 323
search term: religion "foreign faction" 1300

search term: military "safe and unharmed" 7950
search term: journalism "safe and unharmed" 814
search term: religion "safe and unharmed" 2130

You could add journalism and religion together if that helps.

So, by your own evidence here's what I see.

"Proper burial" occurs most in a miltiary context, but in a religious context 77% as much as in a military context. This actually surprises me, as I'd expect the religious context to be much smaller. Proper burial is actually very rarely a problem for civilians - at least in the US.

"tactics and countermeasures" is an inappropriate search term. Countermeasures come before tactics in the RN, and it specifies they are police countermeasures and tactics, not military. Searching for military "countermeasures and tactics" I got 598 hits. 74 if I change religion for military. Again no suprise, as countermeasures and tactics aren't normal topics in religion. They are however normal topics in police work.

Law enforcement countermeasures and tactics (the actual term from the RN) gets me 49,300 hits. Do we conclude that the RN author must have been a policeman? If I put military in front, I only get 38 hits.

Listen carefully gets more hits for religion than for military, by your own data.

Foreign faction, in a religious context, occurs at 77% compared to military. Again this surprises me. I'd expect it to be lower.

Safe an unharmed seems to occur much more frequently in a military context.

military "S.B.T.C." gets 4250 hits. Religion "S.B.T.C." 3880 90% as often as in a military context.

The other problem with your research is that you are assuming that because the terms are found together -e.g. military + SBTC, that they actually have a military meaning.

Do this - put this in the google search box - military "S.B.T.C." - you'll see you get you'll see it gets 4250 hits. Go to the first hit, which will be titled SBTC - Military and Government. The first definition will be Ministry of Small Business, Tourism, and Culture (Canada). Click just below that, on the red words and you'll get 11 definitions. Of those 11 I do not see a single one that is "military". Look for the 25 other definitions and you'll get several that are religious, and several others that have no connection with either religion or the military -and remember this search started with military in the search box. That means that of the many of the definitions that will come up with military in the box actually have nothing to do with the military. The same would of course apply if one searched religion "S.B.T.C."

Go back to the military "S.B.T.C" search and look at the 4th item. It would have come up in a religion "S.B.T.C." search as well. Look at the sixth one down. It talks about Stable Wage distribution in Japan and Skill Based Technological Change. Remember, that the term military is in our search box, but this has little to do with the military.

The ninth site listed is Southern Baptist Texas Convention. It speaks of working with the Salvation Army to help hurricane Katrina victims. Again, this comes up in a search for - military "S.B.T.C."

It's apparent then, that you can't simply search for the terms as you've done, and conclude that these are military terms. A lot of the "military" related hits actually have nothing to do with the military. The same of course applies to searching for religion "S.B.T.C."

I didn't bother with Journalism because I don't regard PR as a journalist in any meaningful sense.

 

[Tadpole12]

May I ask in what mans army? Hy Hubby is a Vet that served with distinction and Honors. He does not recogzie it as military Jargon. He asked me if this was some kind of movie script?

the jargon of action films? That's what it reminds me of. Never hear those words unless in a film.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

So, by your own evidence here's what I see.

"Proper burial" occurs most in a miltiary context, but in a religious context 77% as much as in a military context. This actually surprises me, as I'd expect the religious context to be much smaller. Proper burial is actually very rarely a problem for civilians - at least in the US.

"tactics and countermeasures" is an inappropriate search term. Countermeasures come before tactics in the RN, and it specifies they are police countermeasures and tactics, not military. Searching for military "countermeasures and tactics" I got 598 hits. 74 if I change religion for military. Again no suprise, as countermeasures and tactics aren't normal topics in religion. They are however normal topics in police work.

Law enforcement countermeasures and tactics (the actual term from the RN) gets me 49,300 hits. Do we conclude that the RN author must have been a policeman? If I put military in front, I only get 38 hits.

Listen carefully gets more hits for religion than for military, by your own data.

Foreign faction, in a religious context, occurs at 77% compared to military. Again this surprises me. I'd expect it to be lower.

Safe an unharmed seems to occur much more frequently in a military context.

military "S.B.T.C." gets 4250 hits. Religion "S.B.T.C." 3880 90% as often as in a military context.

The other problem with your research is that you are assuming that because the terms are found together -e.g. military + SBTC, that they actually have a military meaning.

Do this - put this in the google search box - military "S.B.T.C." - you'll see you get you'll see it gets 4250 hits. Go to the first hit, which will be titled SBTC - Military and Government. The first definition will be Ministry of Small Business, Tourism, and Culture (Canada). Click just below that, on the red words and you'll get 11 definitions. Of those 11 I do not see a single one that is "military". Look for the 25 other definitions and you'll get several that are religious, and several others that have no connection with either religion or the military -and remember this search started with military in the search box. That means that of the many of the definitions that will come up with military in the box actually have nothing to do with the military. The same would of course apply if one searched religion "S.B.T.C."

Go back to the military "S.B.T.C" search and look at the 4th item. It would have come up in a religion "S.B.T.C." search as well. Look at the sixth one down. It talks about Stable Wage distribution in Japan and Skill Based Technological Change. Remember, that the term military is in our search box, but this has little to do with the military.

The ninth site listed is Southern Baptist Texas Convention. It speaks of working with the Salvation Army to help hurricane Katrina victims. Again, this comes up in a search for - military "S.B.T.C."

It's apparent then, that you can't simply search for the terms as you've done, and conclude that these are military terms. A lot of the "military" related hits actually have nothing to do with the military. The same of course applies to searching for religion "S.B.T.C."

I didn't bother with Journalism because I don't regard PR as a journalist in any meaningful sense.

Pardon my dyslexia, Chrishope

search term: military "not to provoke them" 2770
search term: journalism "not to provoke them" 263
search term: religion "not to provoke them" 1130

search term: military "any deviation" 429,000
search term: journalism "any deviation" 40,800
search term: religion "any deviation" 49,900

The experssion 'any deviation' is fairly generic, not obviously belonging to any group.

search term: military 374M
search term: journalism 58M
search term: religion 384M

Even if you weighted journalism by 7 times, to bring it on par with the other pages on the www, 'any deviation' would still be military.

 

[Chrishope]

Pardon my dislexia, Chrishope

search term: military "not to provoke them" 2770
search term: journalism "not to provoke them" 263
search term: religion "not to provoke them" 1130

search term: military "any deviation" 429,000
search term: journalism "any deviation" 40,800
search term: religion "any deviation" 49,900


How come all these RN expressions have more military hits?

Because the search engine will find anything in quotations along with the term military, even when they are not actually spoken of together. It just happens to appear more often along with the word military than with the word religion, but not necessarily more than with other words.

"not to provoke them" is in the RN, but why do you insist on cutting out the rest of the sentence? "I advise you not to provoke them" is what appears.

If you try military "I advise you not to provoke them. " you'll get nine hits. 7 hits if you change to religion. 169 if you change to law enforcement. If you put Attorney "I advise you not to provoke them. " you'll get 117. Scool teacher gets you 17 hits, which is more than military gets you. Do we now conclude that the perp is a cop who used to be a school teacher?

If you use just the word provoke you'll get about 1.9 million for religion, 2.5 million for military, and 3.5 million for law. Should we conclude the perp is a lawyer?

If you search for law enforcement "any deviation" you'll get 607,000 hits - far more than for military. Subsitute planning and you'll get 675,000 hits.

It's easy to show - by your method, that one can find other words that trump military.

"Any deviation" is also a select portion of a complete sentence. Why not use the word deviation by itself?

Statistics "deviation" = 12,000,000
Military "deviation" = 2,180,000
Religion "deviation" = 1,380,000
Normal "deviation" = 19,000,000

That last one a little sneaky, as "normal deviation" is a common topic in statistics. I had a hunch it would show up more hits than even statistics. Should we now conclude our perp is a Statistician? Maybe he's a normal deviant?

I'm sorry, but the method you've chosen is simply flawed.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Because the search engine will find anything in quotations along with the term military, even when they are not actually spoken of together. It just happens to appear more often along with the word military than with the word religion, but not necessarily more than with other words.

"not to provoke them" is in the RN, but why do you insist on cutting out the rest of the sentence? "I advise you not to provoke them" is what appears.

If you try military "I advise you not to provoke them. " you'll get nine hits. 7 hits if you change to religion. 169 if you change to law enforcement. If you put Attorney "I advise you not to provoke them. " you'll get 117. Scool teacher gets you 17 hits, which is more than military gets you. Do we now conclude that the perp is a cop who used to be a school teacher?

If you use just the word provoke you'll get about 1.9 million for religion, 2.5 million for military, and 3.5 million for law. Should we conclude the perp is a lawyer?

If you search for law enforcement "any deviation" you'll get 607,000 hits - far more than for military. Subsitute planning and you'll get 675,000 hits.

It's easy to show - by your method, that one can find other words that trump military.

"Any deviation" is also a select portion of a complete sentence. Why not use the word deviation by itself?

Statistics "deviation" = 12,000,000
Military "deviation" = 2,180,000
Religion "deviation" = 1,380,000
Normal "deviation" = 19,000,000

That last one a little sneaky, as "normal deviation" is a common topic in statistics. I had a hunch it would show up more hits than even statistics. Should we now conclude our perp is a Statistician? Maybe he's a normal deviant?

I'm sorry, but the method you've chosen is simply flawed.

TY. Among the groups 'under the umbrella', military wins again!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The FBI profiler Clint VanZandt stated that the note is "full of commanding phrases" and that "someone who is used to exerting authority over others".

That would narrow it down to military commanders, in my view. You can check statisticians if you want.

Somehow 'Victory!' just doesn't sound statistical, does it.

Wait, it was a statistician staging the crime scene to look like a military commander did it.

 

[Chrishope]

TY. Among the groups 'under the umbrella', military wins again!

I thought we were talking about the Ransom note. You figure Mark Beckner is the perp?

 

[Chrishope]

The FBI profiler Clint VanZandt stated that the note is "full of commanding phrases" and that "someone who is used to exerting authority over others".

That would narrow it down to military commanders, in my view. You can check statisticians if you want.

Somehow 'Victory!' just doesn't sound statistical, does it.

Wait, it was a statistician staging the crime scene to look like a military commander did it.

Dr. Depue who ran the FBI profiling unit stated that PR fit the profile of the RN writer. That would narrow it down to PR, in my view.

military "victory" 6.63 million hits

Statistics "victory" 14.7 million hits.

It's looking more and more as if we need to investigate statisticians.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Chrishope,

I think I showed very clearly that the vocabulary in the RN is not only used in a military context, but very likely used more frequently in a military context than either religous or journalistic contexts. Sometimes on an order of magnitude.

I think it is just too dam--ed easy to find all these RN expressions being used in a military context all over the internet, to make any claims that 'they aren't used in MY military'.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Dr. Depue who ran the FBI profiling unit stated that PR fit the profile of the RN writer. That would narrow it down to PR, in my view.

military "victory" 6.63 million hits

Statistics "victory" 14.7 million hits.

It's looking more and more as if we need to investigate statisticians.

I already noted above that single words aren't as telling as expressions, so I stopped testing single words.

military "beheading" 696,000
statistics "beheading" 208,000

military "any deviation" 428000
statistics "any deviation" 59400


OK we can stop looking at statisticians and keep looking at military

 

[LI_Mom]

Victory! Victory! Rah! Rah! Rah!

Go Chrishope! hehehe

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

It's looking more and more as if we need to investigate statisticians.

Yeah, statisticians, housewives, and cute little puppies.

 

[Chrishope]

Chrishope,

I think I showed very clearly that the vocabulary in the RN is not only used in a military context, but very likely used more frequently in a military context than either religous or journalistic contexts. Sometimes on an order of magnitude.

I think it is just too dam--ed easy to find all these RN expressions being used in a military context all over the internet, to make any claims that 'they aren't used in MY military'.

I think I've shown very clearly that your method is badly flawed, that many of the words and or phrases appear more often in a LE context. I've also been able to show that some words appear more often in seemingly unrelated contexts, sometimes by orders of magnitude.

But it's pointless to continue. You'll continue to think it was written by a miltiary commander because it's what you wish to believe.

May I suggest you give the RDI theory thread a try - just to see where it takes you?

 

[LI_Mom]

The FBI profiler Clint VanZandt stated that the note is "full of commanding phrases" and that "someone who is used to exerting authority over others".

That would narrow it down to military commanders, in my view. You can check statisticians if you want.

Or someone who's heads a company.... or a domineering wife.... or someone who has experience organizing events or getting things done... or is used to having people work for them.... or has young children & is an authority figure.....

It's ridiculous to limit this to 'military commanders.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Or someone who's heads a company.... or a domineering wife.... or someone who has experience organizing events or getting things done... or is used to having people work for them.... or has young children & is an authority figure.....

It's ridiculous to limit this to 'military commanders.

Listen carefully, follow my instructions, any deviation, proper burial, beheading, victory, safe and unharmed... goes a little past domineerig wife, dont you think?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I think I've shown very clearly that your method is badly flawed, that many of the words and or phrases appear more often in a LE context. I've also been able to show that some words appear more often in seemingly unrelated contexts, sometimes by orders of magnitude.

But it's pointless to continue. You'll continue to think it was written by a miltiary commander because it's what you wish to believe.

May I suggest you give the RDI theory thread a try - just to see where it takes you?

Correct.

Only my belief has more factual support. Belief in RDI requires what I have been calling 'complex deduction'.

Case fact: JBR was found with a ligature embedded in her neck.

Simple deduction:

JBR was murdered by strangulation

Complex deduction:

It looks like strangulation, but really it was only staged following a rage accident.
It looks like strangulation, but really it was leftovers from EA.

Case fact: The RN has all these authortative, threatening, graphically violent, and commanding terms.

Simple deduction:

The RN author is an authoritative, threatening, and violent person.

Complex deduction:

The RN author isn't really authoritative, threatening, and violent because the RN is disregarded as 'bogus'.

RDI circumvents the obvious in almost all aspects. Why would I believe RDI?