Sheri Coleman, sons Garett and Gavin murdered 5-5-09, Columbia, IL. Pt4

[mck16]

I don't know about this one either. There are plenty of people who thought they could outsmart the police though, so he could have just not planned this well. We won't really know much more until they release the TOD.
Are MP's involved with evidence taking? I know they work as guards, but don't know if they do any "police work".

I immediately thought when I heard this case on the news that all they would have to do is check the time of death. I know t.v. shows are not always factual but it is pretty standard calibration isn't it. I mean if the body temps are X there is a small time range to establish TOD, isn't there? Course as you said they want to make sure they have everything well documented. JMO

 

[milopedes]

I immediately thought when I heard this case on the news that all they would have to do is check the time of death. I know t.v. shows are not always factual but it is pretty standard calibration isn't it. I mean if the body temps are X there is a small time range to establish TOD, isn't there? Course as you said they want to make sure they have everything well documented. JMO

Yes, that and the digestion of food consumed by the victim(s).

 

[who knew?]

Well, you are closer to this than I am. Thanks for your input! And I think having LE as a spouse probably gives you some additional insight too.

Let's just say that he is "hardened" after so many years - and I give too many people the benefit of doubt - so arguments...er...discussions ..... get rather heated at times. :crazy:

 

[bogeygal]

Really? I've never read or heard that before!

Also, I don't post as much as some. And I don't text or twitter. But what does IIRC mean? Go ahead, say "duh!" :bang:

IIRC means "If I Recall Correctly"

 

[Kimmer]

There are mixed messages with this case, when LE states they know who did this and for the public to feel safe within the community that this family was targeted, but no one has been arrested...I think that this is what makes people feel that if LE is aware of how this happened and when it happened then why no arrest...The best answer I can give for this is...We are not watching an episode of CSI or Forensic Files, To get a handle on all of the evidence and to file and indictment is not something that is POOF done...The state needs to make sure they have all of there ducks in a row and then the hammer will fall....Is CC guilty I have no idea, but I can say that from all of the information that has so far come out it does not sound good...But I do feel fairly certain that when an arrest is made in this case, and there will be one..That they will have the right person....So lets all just take a deep breath and let them do there jobs since that is what they are paid to do......

Just my 2 cents

 

[milopedes]

IIRC means "If I Recall Correctly"

Thanks!

 

[Carrington]

TOD:
"it depends on how long the person has been dead. if the body is still warm and has not entered rigor, they can probably get within a half an hour, based on liver temperature. but this also depends on environmental conditions, like outside temperature, which can make it less accurate.

after a body has entered rigor, they can only be accurate to within an hour or two, maybe even less accurate. once the body has begun the later stages of decomposition, it gets even harder to be accurate, because decomp is affected by many environmental factors."

Answerbag.com
Don't know if this is a legit site.

 

[Kimster]

CSI stuff generally makes me ill...but can you give me a quick "in a nutshell" without too many graphics on whether they can pinpoint the TOD of a body that has been discovered right away?

 

[mck16]

TOD:
"it depends on how long the person has been dead. if the body is still warm and has not entered rigor, they can probably get within a half an hour, based on liver temperature. but this also depends on environmental conditions, like outside temperature, which can make it less accurate.

after a body has entered rigor, they can only be accurate to within an hour or two, maybe even less accurate. once the body has begun the later stages of decomposition, it gets even harder to be accurate, because decomp is affected by many environmental factors."

Answerbag.com
Don't know if this is a legit site.

Thanks very good information. So it sounds to me based on this that the victims must have been dead longer than the 45 minutes or hour he was gone to the gym. Don't they take the liver temp immediately? TIA

 

[Kimster]

CSI stuff generally makes me ill...but can you give me a quick "in a nutshell" without too many graphics on whether they can pinpoint the TOD of a body that has been discovered right away?

NM - Carrington was reading my mind! LOL

 

[milopedes]

We've all discussed this before, but everything really hinges on the TOD.

However, lacking that other options must be considered. Let's say for a minute that CC planned this out. He is smart enough, if you will, to stage the "threats" and leave a window open to make people believe it is an intruder. The guy was formerly Military Police, right? So I bet he knows a little something about crime analysis. I find it difficult to believe that he would be dumb enough, or have such an oversight, as to ignore the TOD angle in all of this. If they died at midnight, how does he explain things?

Simultaneously, he must be on his way to the gym calling the house - either immediately or once he gets to the gym. He's gotta know that LE will have pings, his cell phone record, etc.

So, how does he do it all at once?

Thanks to those who responded already, but I'd like more input regarding this question . . . (see above post)

 

[Bluenotes]

Very true! Many criminals have massive egos, and that can lead them to have a sense of invincibility or a feeling that they can "outsmart" LE.

So, who knows? I just have a difficult time thinking he planned it, if he did indeed plan it, while simultaneously overlooking a major factor. It would be easier for me to see him accidentally leave a print, or some minor piece of evidence, while in a rush than to overlook something as huge as the timeline.

Oh, I agree it does seem odd. Here's a thought. Maybe he did plan things better, but in reality they didn't go as he planned (things rarely do). The harsh reality of killing his family may have set in and he started making mistakes. He may have planned to leave immediately, but then thought of other things he needed to do.
I'd guess his mind would be racing and he would be rather frantic, all the while the minutes just keep on ticking.

 

[milopedes]

TOD:
"it depends on how long the person has been dead. if the body is still warm and has not entered rigor, they can probably get within a half an hour, based on liver temperature. but this also depends on environmental conditions, like outside temperature, which can make it less accurate.

after a body has entered rigor, they can only be accurate to within an hour or two, maybe even less accurate. once the body has begun the later stages of decomposition, it gets even harder to be accurate, because decomp is affected by many environmental factors."

Answerbag.com
Don't know if this is a legit site.

Ah, yes. But rigor mortis does not start until 2-3 hours after death. So, if he called a neighborhood cop to check on his family that officer might immediately note the state of the victims. And if not, it didn't take long for other LE to arrive. So, rigor mortis should not have set in until hours later - if we are to believe CC left with them alive. Right?

 

[Kimster]

Oh, I agree it does seem odd. Here's a thought. Maybe he did plan things better, but in reality they didn't go as he planned (things rarely do). The harsh reality of killing his family may have set in and he started making mistakes. He may have planned to leave immediately, but then thought of other things he needed to do.
I'd guess his mind would be racing and he would be rather frantic, all the while the minutes just keep on ticking.

Still, it could have been a rage issue. He may have been entertaining thoughts of how much better his life would be without them and then a fight ensued and he took those thoughts to fruition without a lot of foresight. Remember, "premeditated murder" still qualifies even if it was just a minute before the event. And if you kill three people, you've "premeditated" at least two of them no matter what!

 

[Texas Mist]

TOD:
"it depends on how long the person has been dead. if the body is still warm and has not entered rigor, they can probably get within a half an hour, based on liver temperature. but this also depends on environmental conditions, like outside temperature, which can make it less accurate.

after a body has entered rigor, they can only be accurate to within an hour or two, maybe even less accurate. once the body has begun the later stages of decomposition, it gets even harder to be accurate, because decomp is affected by many environmental factors."

Answerbag.com
Don't know if this is a legit site.

One of the reasons they look at the eyes --

The eyes of a victim can also hold answers to the time of death, as a thin cloudy film is developed over the eye within 3 hours after death has occurred. The eyeballs become softer as a result of less fluid pressure behind the eye and the degree to which this has occurred can be used as a measure of the time since death. Again, a less common procedure for deaths that evidently occurred out of the limit of several days.

If TOD was between 3 & 4 a.m., sounds like they could determine this fairly quickly just by observing @ the scene.

 

[Kimster]

Ah, yes. But rigor mortis does not start until 2-3 hours after death. So, if he called a neighborhood cop to check on his family that officer might immediately note the state of the victims. And if not, it didn't take long for other LE to arrive. So, rigor mortis should not have set in until hours later - if we are to believe CC left with them alive. Right?

I'm thinking that they weren't alive when he left. We'll know that for sure at some point, however! :blowkiss:

 

[milopedes]

Oh, I agree it does seem odd. Here's a thought. Maybe he did plan things better, but in reality they didn't go as he planned (things rarely do). The harsh reality of killing his family may have set in and he started making mistakes. He may have planned to leave immediately, but then thought of other things he needed to do.
I'd guess his mind would be racing and he would be rather frantic, all the while the minutes just keep on ticking.

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Maybe he was aware of the TOD angle, but felt rushed to "pull it off" by committing the crime, leaving, and then start making the calls to prove he was not home?

I once read somewhere that turning up the thermostat in the home could distort the calculation for TOD, if temperature was the means in which it was being performed. I'm not sure exactly how hot it would have to be to accomplish this, but maybe blankets and a reasonably warm temperature in the home could do so as well?

 

[Bluenotes]

Ah, yes. But rigor mortis does not start until 2-3 hours after death. So, if he called a neighborhood cop to check on his family that officer might immediately note the state of the victims. And if not, it didn't take long for other LE to arrive. So, rigor mortis should not have set in until hours later - if we are to believe CC left with them alive. Right?

That would be my thought. The initial officer to arrive may not have checked, but I'd bet his Sgt or other CO would have. The first detective to arrive would be sure to know that as well.

 

[Carrington]

Ah, yes. But rigor mortis does not start until 2-3 hours after death. So, if he called a neighborhood cop to check on his family that officer might immediately note the state of the victims. And if not, it didn't take long for other LE to arrive. So, rigor mortis should not have set in until hours later - if we are to believe CC left with them alive. Right?

Right, they should know TOD within a half-hour. IF rigor had set in, he's screwed.
IMO

 

[Bluenotes]

Still, it could have been a rage issue. He may have been entertaining thoughts of how much better his life would be without them and then a fight ensued and he took those thoughts to fruition without a lot of foresight. Remember, "premeditated murder" still qualifies even if it was just a minute before the event. And if you kill three people, you've "premeditated" at least two of them no matter what!

You're right, I'm just thinking of reasons why he could have made mistakes if he had planned this.