Sheri Coleman, sons Garett and Gavin murdered 5-5-09, Columbia, IL. Pt5

[milopedes]

*shrugs* I stand firm in my convictions and am not ashamed to voice them. So be it.

Um, no one said you should be "ashamed" to voice your opinion! That wasn't even the point of my post that you quoted.

In a court of law. < - - - - - That's my pre-recorded response to those who will chime in and say "Innocent until proven guilty"

First, I've never typed "innocent until proven guilty" in any of my posts. Feel free to check.

Second, I'll never understand why people have a fear of engaging in dialogue with someone whose opinion might differ somewhat from their own. The irony in all of this is that I hold an opinion very similar to your own.

 

[milopedes]

CLINT VAN ZANDT
MSNBC TV Crime Analyst and Former FBI Profiler and Hostage Negotiator


Excerpt:
The challenge with physical evidence in the case of someone who shared a residence, like the Colemans, is that the evidence must link directly to the murder(s) and not just show the person was present in the home. While unlike CSI Miami, the evidence, shootout and arrests do not really take place in one hour, and much evidence is circumstantial vs. direct, over 50% of the 16,000 + homicides in the U.S. are solved every year.

http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_...-man-charged-with-murder-of-wife-and-two-sons

Thanks for the excerpt. This was something we discussed before, and was why I was so firmly hanging on the TOD / established timeline angle, fearing that forensic evidence might be difficult to obtain.

 

[milopedes]

Choking with hands is much more personal - adding a ligature adds distance between his hands and the killing they are doing. I think it makes the killing psychologically easier. MOO.

Well, I get that aspect of the crime.

My thinking regarding Fran's theory, which I liked, was simply to explain the transition, if you will, from strangulation by hand to strangulation by ligature. If we are to believe the crime was committed during a fight, I would be more apt to believe he would have initially strangled her using his hands. It would seem odd that he would have had something ready, or nearby, unless he simply chose a random object in the house; but that isn't a zip-tie. Maybe a curtain cord or something?

 

[chestergal]

The article in the Post today covering the murders mention that most in Chester have not commented about the murders out of respect for Reverend Coleman and his family. Surely, not all Chester residents are walking zombies of the Grace Church.

I am very interested in those who might have grew up with CC in Chester. What was he like in his younger years? Was there any indication that he exibited such horrible traits when he lived there? What about his brothers? Do they have a past or problems with LE?

I realize Chester is a small town, but could anyone who speaks up about the "truth" about this family concerned about physical reprisals?

I wrote about this before....

No one in this town will speak out publicly about CC, his family or that so called church and allow themselves to identified.

In this town you really don't know who is related to whom so you keep your mouth shut and your opinions to yourself when speaking about someone in this town.

Chris Coleman's brother is also a part time Chester Policeman still at this point.

Also no one who does not go to that church really knows who does attend that church for sure. Sure you might know some people that do go to it but you have no way of knowing exactly who is a member. They have a large following that I know.

Grace Church is really not really a Christian Church (well they don't like that heading)
They follow a modern like "christian" religion though. What exactly that is I don't know for sure.
They are linked to JMM and Grace Church International & USA.

I do know that they only recruit in members through the use of devoted active members. Those active members only recruit people they think would fit in to the church's ideals and probably they choose those that have deep pockets. This is why to non-members it is called a cult. You just cannot walk in to the church and sit down without them asking who you are and why you are there and who invited you.

I have go but if anyone has any questions please PM them to me as I do not read all the posts now. I answer your questions the best I can.

 

[milopedes]

I wish we knew WHY he chose ligature...it just seems like there are (forgive me) easier ways to kill someone...also ones that wouldn't draw as much suspicion...Carbon Monoxide poisoning while they sleep and he's at work...poison of another kind... it just seems even more evil this way.

I agree with you wholeheartedly! Strangulation, to me, is one of the most brutal crimes that could be committed. It is even more vile when you consider the victims, what they may have thought in the waning moments, and so on. It gives me chills.

 

[southcitymom]

Well, I get that aspect of the crime.

My thinking regarding Fran's theory, which I liked, was simply to explain the transition, if you will, from strangulation by hand to strangulation by ligature. If we are to believe the crime was committed during a fight, I would be more apt to believe he would have initially strangled her using his hands. It would seem odd that he would have had something ready, or nearby, unless he simply chose a random object in the house; but that isn't a zip-tie. Maybe a curtain cord or something?

I see what you're saying. If it went from fight to murder maybe he choked her in anger with his hands and she fell to the floor unconscious and then he decided to finish the job (along with killing the boys) and that's when he grabbed a ligature to use on her to make sure she was dead and then on the children.

 

[who knew?]

I wonder if little Miss Motive could be pregnant?

OMG - I hadn't even thought of that! Might have been the catalyst ..... especially if TL told SC, or SC found on from CC's e-mail or text messages.

 

[Texas Mist]

Thanks for the excerpt. This was something we discussed before, and was why I was so firmly hanging on the TOD / established timeline angle, fearing that forensic evidence might be difficult to obtain.

These kind of cases make me nervous too, milopedes....even with 'solid' evidence, the defense is free to twist it around, or worse, prevent it from being admitted.

I've read the SA doesn't have a lot of experience with murder trials, and people are still reeling over the outcome of Twila Wiley's case.

Just never know what a jury will do either regardless of how strong a case the SA presents, or how effectively it's done.

Hopefully the TOD will be a fact that jurors cannot overlook (regardless of how the defense will try to discount it), and there will be justice for Sheri, Garett & Gavin.

 

[swa]

I wish we knew WHY he chose ligature...it just seems like there are (forgive me) easier ways to kill someone...also ones that wouldn't draw as much suspicion...Carbon Monoxide poisoning while they sleep and he's at work...poison of another kind... it just seems even more evil this way.

Also, have we discussed death penalty? I know it's "off the table" right now cause they are trying to decide in Ill if it's constitutional, but will they still seek it in the event that ruling is overturned? he meets the criteria...
- more than 1 victim
- victim under 12
- premeditated

Some people don't like the site of blood . . . In CC's mind -- a gun shot (even muffled) would have possiblly drawn attention to himself.

Has anyone heard about a possible life insurance policy? I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn about a 6 figure policy floating out there somewhere . . . .

 

[milopedes]

I wish we knew WHY he chose ligature...it just seems like there are (forgive me) easier ways to kill someone...also ones that wouldn't draw as much suspicion...Carbon Monoxide poisoning while they sleep and he's at work...poison of another kind... it just seems even more evil this way.

I saw on television last night, either Nancy Grace or Fox 2 New St. Louis, that the glove recovered by LE was the type with the power inside. As an aside, I didn't know they made the kind without the powerdery susbstance inside. Anyway, apparently that makes it very difficult to get a print. Thankfully, it does not make it difficult to obtain possible DNA evidence.

My point is this: Maybe CC chose strangulation via ligature because he felt it would leave the least amount of evidence? No prints. No gunshot residue. No blood spatter. No analysis of hand-size to bruises on neck. And so on. Plus, it has the added value - in the sick mind of someone planning or committing such crimes - of less noise and less to "clean up" later.

 

[Girlygirl1]

My point is this: Maybe CC chose strangulation via ligature because he felt it would leave the least amount of evidence? No prints. No gunshot residue. No blood spatter. No analysis of hand-size to bruises on neck. And so on. Plus, it has the added value - in the sick mind of someone planning or committing such crimes - of less noise and less to "clean up" later.

I totally agree with the whole "sight of blood" arguement and the less evidence except that poisoning or CO2 would prevent both of these as well.

Not that I'm looking to kill anyone, but I agree I wouldn't want to see blood but I also wouldn't want to look into their eyes and see them die...I guess based on his cowardly ways, I would just see CC as wanting to take a simplier way out...

 

[Texas Mist]

Some people don't like the site of blood . . . In CC's mind -- a gun shot (even muffled) would have possiblly drawn attention to himself.

Has anyone heard about a possible life insurance policy? I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn about a 6 figure policy floating out there somewhere . . . .

swa, we've "heard" about a life insurance policy, but nothing confirmed...it was noted on another site (that rhymes with wink).

 

[TallCoolOne]

Um, no one said you should be "ashamed" to voice your opinion! That wasn't even the point of my post that you quoted. Hello? :waitasec:



First, I've never typed "innocent until proven guilty" in any of my posts. Feel free to check.

Second, I'll never understand why people have a fear of engaging in dialogue with someone whose opinion might differ somewhat from their own. The irony in all of this is that I hold an opinion very similar to your own, yet you are incapable of recognizing that because you rely upon some lame "pre-recorded" statement.

Okay, I went back and re-read your post and I have to apologize, I misread read what you wrote, well actually I ignored a period and I took you as saying you will keep an open mind like me, instead of what you did write. I'm sorry and red in the face.

And the pre-recorded statement was in no way directed to you. That was actually an attempt at a humorous aside. Sorry it sucked.

Well I think I must be getting tired, my reading comprehension is obviously impaired and my fingers are not spelling words right and I don't want to PO anyone so I'm off to bed.

Thanks to everyone for keeping me informed. You're such a great bunch!!

 

[Anubis]

This is what makes this case disturbing on so many levels. First of all, when I heard about this case, my immediate and first reaction was it was him. No doubt in my mind at all. (Just like the Susan Smith case. I saw that woman on the TV and said outloud to my then husband "she killed her sons".) The threats the family was receiving may have even been real and he just glommed onto the idea and used it to his advantage. Evil, as told so many times in scripture, is easily disguised. Kindly bear in mind the anti-Christ will come disguised as the Christ.That being said, it is EXTREMELY difficult to choke someone to death. It takes an average of four minutes. The crap you see on TV, it doesn't even come close to reality. Grab a doll (or whatever) and try it yourself. Squeezing as hard as you can for four minutes. So, to be blunt, using a ligature is the "cheap n easy" way out. The person you are strangling struggles violently at first but once unconscious, the battle is over. I cannot bear to think of how horribly these souls passed from this world at the hands of the husband and father. I can say that no one, no one except the family that closes the door behind them knows what goes on behind those doors. Perhaps Sheri found out about the affair and wanted to leave. God keep them.

 

[Melanie]

Does anyone think the Baden timeline has anything to do with the screaming the neighbors heard around 3:00 AM:

Sources said Baden looked over the autopsies in the Coleman case and would be willing to testify to the fact the time of death for the victims was most likely before 3 a.m. and no later than 5 a.m., which would put Chris Coleman at home at the time of the murders. This was just the final piece in a complex array of evidence that allowed prosecutors to move forward with charges.

Neighbors report hearing loud screaming and fighting about 3 am Tuesday

If this is the case, and the screaming and fighting came from the Coleman house, this would tell me he went completely psycho on his family and only had a few hours to go get an alibi (which going to the gym is such a lame excuse). Then again - he's STOOPID!

Mel

 

[Melanie]

I saw on television last night, either Nancy Grace or Fox 2 New St. Louis, that the glove recovered by LE was the type with the power inside. As an aside, I didn't know they made the kind without the powerdery susbstance inside. Anyway, apparently that makes it very difficult to get a print. Thankfully, it does not make it difficult to obtain possible DNA evidence.

My point is this: Maybe CC chose strangulation via ligature because he felt it would leave the least amount of evidence? No prints. No gunshot residue. No blood spatter. No analysis of hand-size to bruises on neck. And so on. Plus, it has the added value - in the sick mind of someone planning or committing such crimes - of less noise and less to "clean up" later.

Hi Milo,

But an aha-moment is when he put on the gloves and took them off (if more than one).

It's going to be difficult, but theres a great chance there's a print on the left hand (or right) where he took off the glove. IF there's only 1 glove, the glove may have been removed by a hand (just speculation). You usually take your left index finger to release the suction, then go on to the other 4 digits. Or you remove from the top (leaving the glove inside out. Thus, the chance of leaving a print at the top of the glove.

He also could have left skin particles inside the glove -- we all slough off thousands of skin cells a day.

I have a gut feeling LE is going to find something on this glove, just not sure what it may be.

All the best,

Melanie

 

[jnTexas]

Does anyone think the Baden timeline has anything to do with the screaming the neighbors heard around 3:00 AM:Sources said Baden looked over the autopsies in the Coleman case and would be willing to testify to the fact the time of death for the victims was most likely before 3 a.m. and no later than 5 a.m., which would put Chris Coleman at home at the time of the murders. This was just the final piece in a complex array of evidence that allowed prosecutors to move forward with charges.

Neighbors report hearing loud screaming and fighting about 3 am Tuesday

If this is the case, and the screaming and fighting came from the Coleman house, this would tell me he went completely psycho on his family and only had a few hours to go get an alibi (which going to the gym is such a lame excuse). Then again - he's STOOPID!

Mel

I don't know. I would imagine the liver temp and any dijested food will help in a timelline.
I surely hope they did find the dvr memory. It will be interesting to see the time the tape was turned off. I'm betting it's near the TOD.

OT: Wonder what Badens wifey thinks about this one. isn't she the one on the Anthony defense team?

As for the neighbors hearing screaming at 3am. Why did they not call police? If I heard screaming at 3am I would be calling police for a wellfare check on the occupants.

 

[jnTexas]

Hi Milo,

But an aha-moment is when he put on the gloves and took them off (if more than one).

It's going to be difficult, but theres a great chance there's a print on the left hand (or right) where he took off the glove. IF there's only 1 glove, the glove may have been removed by a hand (just speculation). You usually take your left index finger to release the suction, then go on to the other 4 digits. Or you remove from the top (leaving the glove inside out. Thus, the chance of leaving a print at the top of the glove.

He also could have left skin particles inside the glove -- we all slough off thousands of skin cells a day.

I have a gut feeling LE is going to find something on this glove, just not sure what it may be.

All the best,

Melanie

I'm hoping for DNA in that glove! Maybe sweat, dead skin from hand, or maybe a pesky hand hair that may have been pulled out while removing the glove. fingerprints would be great, but DNA would be icing on the cake.

 

[milopedes]

Okay, I went back and re-read your post and I have to apologize, I misread read what you wrote, well actually I ignored a period and I took you as saying you will keep an open mind like me, instead of what you did write. I'm sorry and red in the face.

And the pre-recorded statement was in no way directed to you. That was actually an attempt at a humorous aside. Sorry it sucked.

Well I think I must be getting tired, my reading comprehension is obviously impaired and my fingers are not spelling words right and I don't want to PO anyone so I'm off to bed.

Thanks to everyone for keeping me informed. You're such a great bunch!!

No problem. Admittedly, I have tried to "stir the pot" so-to-speak for the sake of good, intelligent discourse about this case.

"Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric." ~ Bertrand Russell

I may have fallen into the minority at times around here, but what I've tried to do is base my opinion on something worthy of discussion. Since I was fairly certain (I was saying 80%, now I'm more like 90% sure) CC was guilty from the get-go, it was pretty easy to avoid the whole "because I believe he is innocent" or "innocent until proven guilty statements".

Ultimately, I'll respect one's opinion more if they debate me - or others they disagree with - in an intelligent, mature fashion. I suppose that is why I really enjoy this website . . . it allows for great discussion.

Have a good one! Hope to see you back soon.

 

[Texas Mist]

Does anyone think the Baden timeline has anything to do with the screaming the neighbors heard around 3:00 AM:

Sources said Baden looked over the autopsies in the Coleman case and would be willing to testify to the fact the time of death for the victims was most likely before 3 a.m. and no later than 5 a.m., which would put Chris Coleman at home at the time of the murders. This was just the final piece in a complex array of evidence that allowed prosecutors to move forward with charges.

Neighbors report hearing loud screaming and fighting about 3 am Tuesday

If this is the case, and the screaming and fighting came from the Coleman house, this would tell me he went completely psycho on his family and only had a few hours to go get an alibi (which going to the gym is such a lame excuse). Then again - he's STOOPID!

Mel

The TOD seems to coincide with the info that a neighbor heard screams around 3 a.m.

Now all we need is confirmation from reliable source the report of the screams is true (and hopefully reported by more than 1 neighbor!)

ITA about the clumsy staging...perhaps spray painting big smiley faces (ala the Smiley Face murders) would have muddied the waters more.

The staging seems to be a desperate act of CCCA (Cover CC's Arse).