Sheri Coleman, sons Garett and Gavin murdered 5-5-09, Columbia, IL. Pt5

[ohiogirl]

I'm a great fan of Michael Baden, and truly trust his judgement. He's world renowned.

Sources said Baden looked over the autopsies in the Coleman case and would be willing to testify to the fact the time of death for the victims was most likely before 3 a.m. and no later than 5 a.m., which would put Chris Coleman at home at the time of the murders. This was just the final piece in a complex array of evidence that allowed prosecutors to move forward with charges.


I guess you didn't see his performance at the Spector trial? I have no respect for this hired gun, media hound. I wish they had someone else do the confirmation.
JMO of course.

 

[pres101]

I'm wondering if he *had* a plan, and for some reason couldn't execute it so he had to delay the evil deed...then something happened that caused him to 'just do it' & then he had to scramble for a very, very sloppy staging.

I can't get past TOD -- he *had* to have *known* that would be soooo problematic!![/QUOTE]

My bold, you're giving him way, way, way too much credit. What we know about his life thus far tells me he's not a very educated guy. I bet a big percentage of the population doesn't know a coroner can determine tod. Just say, it wasn't me and you're home free... NOT!!! When will they ever learn?

CC obviously knew little about forensics and assumed that his position at JMM and being a Pastor's son keep him above suspicion.

Very arrogant but not very smart.

 

[fran]

Fran, you have an interesting theory. I do like it, particularly the part about Sheri receiving the letter initially alerting her to CC's cheating ways and his response being to cover it up by creating some threats. It also ties in nicely with the sudden change of plans re: Florida.

I have some two follow-up questions to your theory:

1. Unless SC believed CC, and even if she did I cannot imagine her not casually mentioning it to someone she trusts or confides in, why is there presently no statements from family, friends, or others regarding her knowledge of the affair? Or, (and we may not know yet), why is there no e-mail or other evidence indicating she knew something was fishy? From all accounts I've read / heard, outwardly they seemed to have a very good marriage.

2. All three died from ligature strangulation, right? How do you go from choking someone with your hands, as you might imagine would occur during a heated fight, to ligature? Did he stop, reflect while she was unconscious, and then switch to the ligature? Depending upon the fight, wouldn't there be signs on SC that someone strangled her with hands first?

Response to #1......First of all, it's very easy for a 'controlling type' person to convince their SO that what they're looking at isn't REALLY what they think. Thus, it would not be difficult to convince their SO that it's a 'conspiracy' against them, ie threats etc. (even if the SO suspects it's bs, they go along with it, 'wanting' it to be what the controller says) As we don't know the evidence gathered by LE, not all the evidence, I'm not willing to rule out that Sheri's friends haven't stepped forward with 'what they or Sheri knew.' In another recent case, it didn't come out for several months that a NUMBER of the wife's friends were aware of the domestic situation of their now deceased friend and some had {proof} of some sort of what they spoke of. It was also brought out eventually, that the wife had actually been in contact with a domestic hot line.(we only found that out because it was brought up in SW's) FWIW, the husband didn't know, I don't believe, that his deceased wife had contacted an abuse hotline.

Response to #2...........I've seen on more than one occasion, that there was not only signs of strangulation, but 'trauma' on Sheri and one of the boys. I've seen that Chris' mom told mourners at the funeral, that Sheri's jaw was broken. That totally fits with the initial murder being rage, by 'hand.' It was the boys and the 'staging' phase that the ligature comes in. However, it's highly possible if *rumors* are correct, the one boy who also showed signs of trauma was also done by hand and 'ligature' part of the 'staging.'

So many of these guys think they're smarter than everyone else. They make stupid mistakes that get them caught. Thank goodness for stupid criminals!:bang:

Now we have the TOD being while the suspect was still in the home. He may have thought he was doing it fast enough that the TOD *window* would work, but he wasn't that experienced in forensics to know that. Believe me, LE, the FIRST responders, could determine, just by the condition of the body, that the victims has been deceased by longer than 1 1/2 hours. It's too personal to talk about why I know that, but take it from me, they know just by looking at the victim if it's been longer than what was originally reported.

Believe me when I say, I NEVER wanted the perp to be the husband. I NEVER want it to be the husband. I can't imagine dying and knowing it's at the hands of the person you loved, honored, and cherished, until he chooses to hasten the final vow, 'til death do us part. THEN the children! Unimagineable! Heartbreaking.

Unfortunately, we're seeing it more and more and more, people who refuse to consider the word or world or *divorce*.

JMHO
fran

 

[pres101]

Nah, I think she's feeling pretty lucky to be alive tonight. I hope she brings her screwdriver and screws him to the wall at trial.

Best,

Melanie

She will to save her own *advertiser censored**. There is a lot more to her and this case than meets the eye. The only thing keeping her out of the lime-light now is fear of being implicated.

 

[analytical]

I'm a great fan of Michael Baden, and truly trust his judgement. He's world renowned.

Sources said Baden looked over the autopsies in the Coleman case and would be willing to testify to the fact the time of death for the victims was most likely before 3 a.m. and no later than 5 a.m., which would put Chris Coleman at home at the time of the murders. This was just the final piece in a complex array of evidence that allowed prosecutors to move forward with charges.


I guess you didn't see his performance at the Spector trial? I have no respect for this hired gun, media hound. I wish they had someone else do the confirmation.
JMO of course.

I didn't watch the Spector trial. What's your objection to Baden? Thanks!

 

[Lindadanette]

The TOD seems to coincide with the info that a neighbor heard screams around 3 a.m.

Now all we need is confirmation from reliable source the report of the screams is true (and hopefully reported by more than 1 neighbor!)

ITA about the clumsy staging...perhaps spray painting big smiley faces (ala the Smiley Face murders) would have muddied the waters more.

The staging seems to be a desperate act of CCCA (Cover CC's Arse).

Yep - IIRC, the rumor is that her jaw was broken. Sounds to me like a knock down drag out that went too far. What kind of man punches a lady? How would JMM and the church family have perceived that? Better to finish it off like a coward, and then make certain that it looked like a stranger by wiping your whole family out. Sick, sick sick. I think the letters were the indication of his thoughts and intentions, but the murder was the result of being exposed for the he is. He couldn't stand for his wife telling him like it was - so he broke her jaw. If this is the case, the forensics examiner would have been able to determine if the punch was made with a bare hand.

 

[wicket]

Question and haven't heard it at all answered: since CC was a marine (was, not is) where did he serve? Did he see action? Just wondering if the defense may play on that angle.
Having myself known domestic abuse there's just no telling what she put up with in protecting those boys during the marriage. She may have kept all her tears and bruises to herself - too embarrassed to seek help. Having no reports of domestic violence at the house means nothing.
My feeling is that the murders did not just come from an explosion or an argument- it had been simmering. Plus, it seemed that there was a lot of religion surrounding this family: CC religious upbringing and his father a well known pastor of a upscale church, CC worked for a well-known, influential and wealth evangelist, and they belonged to their own church, Destiny. I'm not putting down religion or faith, but somehow no one noticed anything amiss?

 

[pres101]

I am little behind in some of the reading so I apologize if this has already been mentioned.

I am wondering if the LE who lived across the street from CC might have had his own camera set up, perhaps on the mail box or the Coleman house. He knew about the supposed threats and I think is the one that CC called for a welfare check. Wouldn't it be nice he filmed CC leaving the house that morning with something like a DVD recorder.

 

[ohiogirl]

I didn't watch the Spector trial. What's your objection to Baden? Thanks!

I felt he was a paid for liar. Jmo and all that jazz.

 

[Opinion8ed]

Yep - IIRC, the rumor is that her jaw was broken. Sound to me like a knock down drag out that went too far. What kind of man punches a lady? How would JMM and the church family have perceived that? Better to finish it off like a coward, and then make certain that it looked like a stranger by wiping your whole family out. Sick, sick sick. I think the letters were the indication of his thoughts and intentions, but the murder was the result of being exposed for the he is. He couldn't stand for his wife telling him like it was - so he broke her jaw. If this is the case, the forensics examiner would have been able to determine if the punch was made with a bare hand.

Possibly he hit her hard to knock her out before he strangled her.Maybe while she was sleeping.

 

[Lindadanette]

I am little behind in some of the reading so I apologize if this has already been mentioned.

I am wondering if the LE who lived across the street from CC might have had his own camera set up, perhaps on the mail box or the Coleman house. He knew about the supposed threats and I think is the one that CC called for a welfare check. Wouldn't it be nice he filmed CC leaving the house that morning with something like a DVD recorder.

Now THAT would be divine

 

[fran]

I saw on television last night, either Nancy Grace or Fox 2 New St. Louis, that the glove recovered by LE was the type with the power inside. As an aside, I didn't know they made the kind without the powerdery susbstance inside. Anyway, apparently that makes it very difficult to get a print. Thankfully, it does not make it difficult to obtain possible DNA evidence.

My point is this: Maybe CC chose strangulation via ligature because he felt it would leave the least amount of evidence? No prints. No gunshot residue. No blood spatter. No analysis of hand-size to bruises on neck. And so on. Plus, it has the added value - in the sick mind of someone planning or committing such crimes - of less noise and less to "clean up" later.

Regarding the glove..........................just imagine if they had had 'touch DNA' during the OJ trial? It wouldn't matter if the glove fit or not.

On with the glove, is this a 'rubber' type glove?

CC was summoned for a second set of prints the day after the glove was found, per *rumor*. Just imagine wearing the gloves while spray painting (reports paint on glove) and you take off one glove and with the UNGLOVED second hand, you remove the second glove and then discard along the highway?

The SECOND set of prints from CC included a PALM PRINT.

Just somethin' to stew over,

fran

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

These kind of cases make me nervous too, milopedes....even with 'solid' evidence, the defense is free to twist it around, or worse, prevent it from being admitted.

I've read the SA doesn't have a lot of experience with murder trials, and people are still reeling over the outcome of Twila Wiley's case.

Just never know what a jury will do either regardless of how strong a case the SA presents, or how effectively it's done.

Hopefully the TOD will be a fact that jurors cannot overlook (regardless of how the defense will try to discount it), and there will be justice for Sheri, Garett & Gavin.

The SA can ask for help from the IL Attorney General's office. They would provided experienced prosecutor(s). I hope the SA does ask for help here. Since they asked for a second opinion from Baden, I am encouraged they might also ask for trial help.

If he is held without bond, and the defense attorney doesn't waive the right to speedy trial, they do have to go to trial in 90 days.

 

[fran]

Hi Milo,

But an aha-moment is when he put on the gloves and took them off (if more than one).

It's going to be difficult, but theres a great chance there's a print on the left hand (or right) where he took off the glove. IF there's only 1 glove, the glove may have been removed by a hand (just speculation). You usually take your left index finger to release the suction, then go on to the other 4 digits. Or you remove from the top (leaving the glove inside out. Thus, the chance of leaving a print at the top of the glove.

He also could have left skin particles inside the glove -- we all slough off thousands of skin cells a day.

I have a gut feeling LE is going to find something on this glove, just not sure what it may be.

All the best,

Melanie

We must be sistahs in another life!

DITTO on the glove thingy.

DNA, fingerprint (palmprint) and paint match to the writing on the wall!!!!

MAYBE?????
fran

 

[Lindadanette]

Regarding the glove..........................just imagine if they had had 'touch DNA' during the OJ trial? It wouldn't matter if the glove fit or not.

On with the glove, is this a 'rubber' type glove?

CC was summoned for a second set of prints the day after the glove was found, per *rumor*. Just imagine wearing the gloves while spray painting (reports paint on glove) and you take off one glove and with the UNGLOVED second hand, you remove the second glove and then discard along the highway?

The SECOND set of prints from CC included a PALM PRINT.

Just somethin' to stew over,


fran

Could he have slapped her hard enough to break her jaw? Did he pick up and throw a little boy who came running to his mother's defense? They were both very tiny. When I saw his hands in cuffs in the photo after he was arrested, I could "see" the rage in them - as if they want to murder the world.

 

[fran]

The TOD seems to coincide with the info that a neighbor heard screams around 3 a.m.

Now all we need is confirmation from reliable source the report of the screams is true (and hopefully reported by more than 1 neighbor!)

ITA about the clumsy staging...perhaps spray painting big smiley faces (ala the Smiley Face murders) would have muddied the waters more.

The staging seems to be a desperate act of CCCA (Cover CC's Arse).

I have mentioned this before in previous threads, but I did see an actual interview of a neighbor who heard arguing from the home the previous evening. NO TIME was specified and not a scream, but argument, that I recall. I've looked for a link to the interview but haven't been able to find it. But I'm positive I saw the interview online, from a news station in the local area.

JMHO
fran

 

[Texas Mist]

The SA can ask for help from the IL Attorney General's office. They would provided experienced prosecutor(s). I hope the SA does ask for help here. Since they asked for a second opinion from Baden, I am encouraged they might also ask for trial help.

If he is held without bond, and the defense attorney doesn't waive the right to speedy trial, they do have to go to trial in 90 days.

TY, Medusa - sounds good that it's possible the SA can get help with this...I hope they do not hesitate to have the best of the best the state of IL has to offer in prosecuting this case.

That would be one less thing to worry over.

 

[Texas Mist]

I have mentioned this before in previous threads, but I did see an actual interview of a neighbor who heard arguing from the home the previous evening. NO TIME was specified and not a scream, but argument, that I recall. I've looked for a link to the interview but haven't been able to find it. But I'm positive I saw the interview online, from a news station in the local area.

JMHO
fran

it's frustrating when I know I've read/heard something & then can't find it....and sometimes the media releases info via TV only & no way to track it down via google....grrr.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

I don't know. I would imagine the liver temp and any dijested food will help in a timelline.
I surely hope they did find the dvr memory. It will be interesting to see the time the tape was turned off. I'm betting it's near the TOD.

OT: Wonder what Badens wifey thinks about this one. isn't she the one on the Anthony defense team?

As for the neighbors hearing screaming at 3am. Why did they not call police? If I heard screaming at 3am I would be calling police for a wellfare check on the occupants.

I have never commented on the neighbors hearing screaming, but have thought about this a great deal.

Some years ago, I had just went to bed around 2 am, when I heard someone scream. It sounded, to me, like a woman. I saw no lights in any of the homes I can see. About 5 minutes later I heard something else, by this time DH was awake and he said he wasn't sure. He actually thought it to be cats, but, I didn't. So, we are not sure exactly what, and not sure where, so we didn't call. What do you tell them? Drive around neighborhood. And BTW - nothing ever came of this. Although in light of the Coleman murders, I think today in the same situation I would call.

Last year, the 2nd or 3rd of January, I couldn't sleep and this was almost 4 when I heard a woman scream and a man's voice screaming at her. This was in winter, with my windows closed, furnace on, and tv on! I could hear most of what he said. I crept to my hall and looked out (so they couldn't see me) and it was some neighbors down the street that normally keep to themselves. He was having a fight with a woman on his front porch, and I had phone in hand, called 911 (and he could hear them! Through the closed door!!!!! He was concerned I was in the fight!!!) the cops got there instantly and ended up giving her a ride so she could call someone to pick her up (heard most all of it). And I am glad that he has no idea who called. (He and wife divorced a couple years ago, this was a girlfriend who I haven't ever seen since.)

But, you know, in a relatively quiet neighborhood, I don't know. If you are asleep, or drifting off, you may not know if you really heard something or not. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[fran]

The SA can ask for help from the IL Attorney General's office. They would provided experienced prosecutor(s). I hope the SA does ask for help here. Since they asked for a second opinion from Baden, I am encouraged they might also ask for trial help.

If he is held without bond, and the defense attorney doesn't waive the right to speedy trial, they do have to go to trial in 90 days.

This *speedy trial* thing is totally what I was trying to say when people were whining about the delay in arresting the NOT suspect when LE stated they knew *who* he was.

That was the problem in the OJ trial. They arrested OJ tooooo soon and his def attorney demanded a speedy trial, IIRC, it was 60 days or something like that. During that time period, DNA was fairly new and took a looonngg time to process.

Defense attorneys don't *win* cases, pros *lose* cases.

JMHO
fran