Shootin' from the Lip--Part One

[midwest mama]

I have always been suspicious of JAR's whereabouts Christmas day/night. You have Joe Barnhill who claimed to see him that afternoon. If it wasn't him, why would any other kid that age be going in the house (up the front walk in broad daylight) unless it was a friend of JAR's visiting HIM. While he lived in the dorms, he spend a lot of time at his dad's house, just a few minutes away.
To add to the suspicion- we have the lack of Christmas morning videos (in a family that videotaped EVERYTHING that involved JB) due to a "dead battery" (did LE verify this?) We also have the IMMEDIATE lawyering up of JAR's MOTHER, who lived in Georgia, was not there that day/night and was never a suspect in the crime. Why was it necessary for HER to have a lawyer? What could she tell LE about that night if she wasn't there? Well one thing is that a lawyer could stand between her and LE- making sure they can't talk to her and preventing her from being asked to provide photographic proof of her son's presence in Georgia with her that day.
Keep in mind that even if he WAS with his mother that day there is no reason why he couldn't have been in Boulder that night.

JAR creeps on my "other options suspect list" at times also. Because of the time distance between Boulder and Georgia, someone once laid out the time frame as possible for JAR to have been able to get back and forth using a private plane - and there were at least 4-1/2 hours unaccounted for.

His pal, Brad Millard was a pilot. Brad ended up sleeping over at JAR's mother's house, and was reported to have been there in JAR's room when Melinda came to pick up JAR for their early flight to Minneapolis on the 26th.

The reports say JAR went to Brad's house at 8:30 and they played video games for an hour (which would make it 9:30), and then another friend joined them and they went to a 10:30 movie at a mall. Afterward, back to Brad's so JAR could pick up his car, which was around 1:00 am. Why would Brad go with JAR back to Lucinda's at that time of the morning to bunk in with JAR when he would be leaving again in a few hours to catch an early flight anyway?

The video of JAR at the ATM in Marietta, which showed up later, said it was at 9:00 pm. I thought that JAR was at Brad's house playing video games at that time ???? Was there validation by someone else from the Millard house about JAR being there? Otherwise, I would say the reported times cause conflict.

Because JAR said he could have paid the $118,000 ransom amount, I assume he could have offered enough to his buddies to help him out with an alibi.

Kolar says in his book, pg 225-226:"Over the coming weeks, I would learn that some of the evidence that Smit had pointed to as belonging to an intruder had been explained. For example, the latent fingerprint found on the outside of the Wine Cellar door, still unidentified when Smit first joined the case, had subsequently been identified by CBI technicians as a palm print belonging to Patsy Ramsey. One other latent print from the same door had also been identified as belonging to her, and another belonged to John Andrew."

 

[Nom de plume]

JAR creeps on my "other options suspect list" at times also. Because of the time distance between Boulder and Georgia, someone once laid out the time frame as possible for JAR to have been able to get back and forth using a private plane - and there were at least 4-1/2 hours unaccounted for.

His pal, Brad Millard was a pilot. Brad ended up sleeping over at JAR's mother's house, and was reported to have been there in JAR's room when Melinda came to pick up JAR for their early flight to Minneapolis on the 26th.

The reports say JAR went to Brad's house at 8:30 and they played video games for an hour (which would make it 9:30), and then another friend joined them and they went to a 10:30 movie at a mall. Afterward, back to Brad's so JAR could pick up his car, which was around 1:00 am. Why would Brad go with JAR back to Lucinda's at that time of the morning to bunk in with JAR when he would be leaving again in a few hours to catch an early flight anyway?
The video of JAR at the ATM in Marietta, which showed up later, said it was at 9:00 pm. I thought that JAR was at Brad's house playing video games at that time ???? Was there validation by someone else from the Millard house about JAR being there? Otherwise, I would say the reported times cause conflict.

Because JAR said he could have paid the $118,000 ransom amount, I assume he could have offered enough to his buddies to help him out with an alibi.

Kolar says in his book, pg 225-226:"Over the coming weeks, I would learn that some of the evidence that Smit had pointed to as belonging to an intruder had been explained. For example, the latent fingerprint found on the outside of the Wine Cellar door, still unidentified when Smit first joined the case, had subsequently been identified by CBI technicians as a palm print belonging to Patsy Ramsey. One other latent print from the same door had also been identified as belonging to her, and another belonged to John Andrew."

BBM Yes, that is pretty strange. Two possible reasons come to mind, one being an alibi.

 

[midwest mama]

BBM Yes, that is pretty strange. Two possible reasons come to mind, one being an alibi.

A reminder - Millard also slept in JB's spare bed when he came to visit JAR in Boulder. I would wonder why he couldn't have used Melinda's room, or bunked in again with JAR?

Millard's hair was tested against the one found on JB's blanket, but not a match. I assume DNA was also captured from the hair? But, acandyrose.com does not list blood, fingerprints, handwriting or DNA taken from Millard. For that matter, grandpa DP also does not show blood, hair, handwriting taken on the website.

Is it known that acandyrose archives might not have some info posted, even if the tests were done?

 

[SunnieRN]

BBM Yes, that is pretty strange. Two possible reasons come to mind, one being an alibi.

Maybe JAR left the fingerprint on the basement door, when he pit the suitcase with the semen stained duvet inside. Doesn't make a lot of sense, since it from the college dorms. :waitasec:

 

[midwest mama]

Maybe JAR left the fingerprint on the basement door, when he pit the suitcase with the semen stained duvet inside. Doesn't make a lot of sense, since it from the college dorms. :waitasec:

His fingerprint was on the Wine Cellar door, and the suitcase was not in that room. JR said he was the one to have taken the suitcase down to the basement for storage at another time when he saw it sitting upstairs near the laundry area on the 2nd floor.

The basement had been painted, I think about 2 years before JB's death, so there weren't too many times that JAR could have put his hand on the Wine Cellar door IMHO. According to what's been reported, the Wine Cellar was used primarily for storage of Christmas stuff and by Patsy when she wanted to sneak a smoke. There was a cigar box reportedly kept in there which Fleet White claimed to have handled when he went back down to the basement after JR brought JB up. Again, reports that JR kept cigars in there for the humidity. Maybe JAR went in to get a cigar on one of his weekends at home from school?

Reports are conflicting on the female palm print - some say it turned out to be Melinda's, but that is not a validated forensic report. I tend to go with Kolar - he had access to all the case files. I can't think of why Melinda's print would have been on there either, since her access to that room should have been minimal as well.

 

[DeeDee249]

I had read that a palm print in the basement was found to belong to Melinda Ramsey. Is this separate from the JAR print or is there confusion between the two?
Cannot think why JAR's print would be on the wine cellar door at ALL.

 

[midwest mama]

I had read that a palm print in the basement was found to belong to Melinda Ramsey. Is this separate from the JAR print or is there confusion between the two?
Cannot think why JAR's print would be on the wine cellar door at ALL.

According to reports, there were 3 palm prints lifted from the WC door. Two were identified as Patsy's and in 2002 a report came through the Rocky Mountain News, via a reporter named Charlie Brennan, that the 3rd print was identified as Melinda's. Mr Brennan said that "investigators" identified it, and was not specific which agency supplied the information.

I had also accepted the third print to be Melinda's. When I saw the reference by Kolar in his book to the print being John Andrew's, I did wonder if it was an error. I remembered the possible transcription error in his book referring to tape being on JB's "legs" instead of "lips", but somehow it seems difficult to hook up a transcription error between "Melinda" and "John Andrew".

There's been no contest by anyone from the RST about the palm print, has there? And I don't think Kolar has made any public corrections about it. So now, with his immediate access to the case material, I wonder if he's right, and left it in place in the book without any other commentary because JAR had already been cleared and he would risk being sued.

 

[Nom de plume]

A reminder - Millard also slept in JB's spare bed when he came to visit JAR in Boulder. I would wonder why he couldn't have used Melinda's room, or bunked in again with JAR?

Millard's hair was tested against the one found on JB's blanket, but not a match. I assume DNA was also captured from the hair? But, acandyrose.com does not list blood, fingerprints, handwriting or DNA taken from Millard. For that matter, grandpa DP also does not show blood, hair, handwriting taken on the website.

Is it known that acandyrose archives might not have some info posted, even if the tests were done?

Good point about Millard sleeping in JBR's room. Seems there were a lot of strange sleeping arrangements going on in that house.

Hundreds of samples were taken from people that realistically couldn't have had anything to do with it. Yet the ones closest (DP etc) got a pass. Go figure...

 

[SunnieRN]

When was the door fingerprinted? JAR and Melinda, along with Melinda's fiance were known to have arrived that afternoon in Boulder. If I had unrestricted access to the house, which lets face it folks, nothing was done to prevent contamination at this point, I could understand JAR or MR wanting to go down and see if they could find/see anything that might explain what had happened to their younger sister. I lnow JR spoke to the three outside, in the car, but were they inside the house that day?

 

[midwest mama]

When was the door fingerprinted? JAR and Melinda, along with Melinda's fiance were known to have arrived that afternoon in Boulder. If I had unrestricted access to the house, which lets face it folks, nothing was done to prevent contamination at this point, I could understand JAR or MR wanting to go down and see if they could find/see anything that might explain what had happened to their younger sister. I lnow JR spoke to the three outside, in the car, but were they inside the house that day?

This is a statement reportedly coming straight from JAR in an email to a legitimate source:
"After M, S and I arrived in Denver we proceeded to the house. As soon as we arrived J and P were in the street, they had just found JB. It was a bad scene. Very quickly S and I got in John Fernies van with my dad. Melinda went with Patsy in I think Fleets car. NO ONE WAS THINKING. We just got in the nearest car and drove. NO THOUGHTS. That is when my dad told us he found JB and she was dead. NO THOUGHTS. We prayed and drove to the Fernies. I would imagine that is when Stewart got his information, I was probably sitting right there but I don't remember."

It seems none of the young Ramseys entered the house on the 26th, and I would assume that the prints were lifted either that same day or the next.

 

[Limaes]

I have always felt that the timing of them "finding" her body and the arrival of JR's other children was too coincidental. JR would not have wanted them there to witness their youngest sister's dead body. I still can't believe they were ALL allowed to just simply drive away.

 

[DeeDee249]

This is a statement reportedly coming straight from JAR in an email to a legitimate source:
"After M, S and I arrived in Denver we proceeded to the house. As soon as we arrived J and P were in the street, they had just found JB. It was a bad scene. Very quickly S and I got in John Fernies van with my dad. Melinda went with Patsy in I think Fleets car. NO ONE WAS THINKING. We just got in the nearest car and drove. NO THOUGHTS. That is when my dad told us he found JB and she was dead. NO THOUGHTS. We prayed and drove to the Fernies. I would imagine that is when Stewart got his information, I was probably sitting right there but I don't remember."

It seems none of the young Ramseys entered the house on the 26th, and I would assume that the prints were lifted either that same day or the next.

No mention of the time of day this took place, right? I think it was during this interaction that JR was said to have told his son that he "found" JB at 11 am. This would have been during the 2-hour "disappearance" from Det. Arndt's sight. If he had legitimately found her, why would he have kept that secret- and go and "find" her again at 1 pm? He wouldn't, of course, unless he was staging the crime scene. He didn't "find" her at all- he simply went to where he knew she was. He rearranged whatever needed it and went back upstairs. Having already been aware that LE had not found her when the house was searched early that morning, he planned to wait till all investigators had left the house. Then- they would have called police to say THEY had found her (or she had been returned). I don't think they ever though police were not going to leave them alone in the house. When they didn't- Plan B. And Arndt gave him the chance to do it.

 

[UKGuy]

No mention of the time of day this took place, right? I think it was during this interaction that JR was said to have told his son that he "found" JB at 11 am. This would have been during the 2-hour "disappearance" from Det. Arndt's sight. If he had legitimately found her, why would he have kept that secret- and go and "find" her again at 1 pm? He wouldn't, of course, unless he was staging the crime scene. He didn't "find" her at all- he simply went to where he knew she was. He rearranged whatever needed it and went back upstairs. Having already been aware that LE had not found her when the house was searched early that morning, he planned to wait till all investigators had left the house. Then- they would have called police to say THEY had found her (or she had been returned). I don't think they ever though police were not going to leave them alone in the house. When they didn't- Plan B. And Arndt gave him the chance to do it.

DeeDee249,
In the PMPT narrative sequence JR and PR etc are just leaving the house after being denied their flight out of Colorado, approx 1:45pm.

In ITRMI its approx 2:30 PM.


.

 

[Matt21]

@DeeDee249 or midwest mama

Thank you for recommending Kolar's book Foreign Faction, I've been reading so many positive reviews for it. Would you please, if you don't mind, post if the book contains any photographs? And more to the point, if it contains autopsy or any crime scene pictures of Jonbenet? I just cannot handle seeing them.

 

[meganx3xo]

@DeeDee249 or midwest mama

Thank you for recommending Kolar's book Foreign Faction, I've been reading so many positive reviews for it. Would you please, if you don't mind, post if the book contains any photographs? And more to the point, if it contains autopsy or any crime scene pictures of Jonbenet? I just cannot handle seeing them.

I just flipped thought Kolar's book and while quickly flipping I saw one autopsy photo.

There were many pictures of the house and various rooms, but I didn't see pictures of the wine cellar while flipping through.

 

[SunnieRN]

No mention of the time of day this took place, right? I think it was during this interaction that JR was said to have told his son that he "found" JB at 11 am. This would have been during the 2-hour "disappearance" from Det. Arndt's sight. If he had legitimately found her, why would he have kept that secret- and go and "find" her again at 1 pm? He wouldn't, of course, unless he was staging the crime scene. He didn't "find" her at all- he simply went to where he knew she was. He rearranged whatever needed it and went back upstairs. Having already been aware that LE had not found her when the house was searched early that morning, he planned to wait till all investigators had left the house. Then- they would have called police to say THEY had found her (or she had been returned). I don't think they ever though police were not going to leave them alone in the house. When they didn't- Plan B. And Arndt gave him the chance to do it.

And out of everything about this case, all the statements the R's made, all the lies that were told, all the questions that were never answered, all the bashing of BPD, accusations of anyone and everyone they knew....

This statement, that JR SAID he found JonBenet at 11:00, not 1, and did NOTHING, is what convinced me more than any other fact, that the R's were involved and there was NEVER an intruder.

This statement in and of itself, was the evidence needed to prosecute the R's. Sick, sick, sick!!!

 

[midwest mama]

@DeeDee249 or midwest mama

Thank you for recommending Kolar's book Foreign Faction, I've been reading so many positive reviews for it. Would you please, if you don't mind, post if the book contains any photographs? And more to the point, if it contains autopsy or any crime scene pictures of Jonbenet? I just cannot handle seeing them.

Matt21, there is a listing of the photo pages at the front of Kolar's book - pgs: xvii and xviii. You could look through the listing and decide if something might be offensive to you. Don't know if you regularly use a library, but most libraries will get in a copy of a book at your request if they are not currently housing one. It would be a way to browse some of the main documents at the back of the book as well, if you decide against getting your own copy for reading/reference.

I will try to list out the photos that are of JB's autopsy:
#8, pg 56
#9, pg 59
#11, pg 68
#13, pg 106
#26, pg 248
#26, pg 385
#29, pg 386

All photos are in black and white, and with the exception of pg 56 and pg 59, should not be terribly disturbing, IMHO.

The book is such a good compilation of case information, if you could figure out a way to mark the above pages and skip over them as you read through, you would still end up learning so much. But there is dialogue on each page which contains a photo, so you would have to consider that.

All the other photos are also in black and white and while they do show the house in it's normal disarray, there is no display of anything gory. If you did not know a child's murder case was being referenced, you might wonder why those particular photos were considered to be prudent to a crime scene.

Hope this helps.

 

[Matt21]

Matt21, there is a listing of the photo pages at the front of Kolar's book - pgs: xvii and xviii. You could look through the listing and decide if something might be offensive to you. Don't know if you regularly use a library, but most libraries will get in a copy of a book at your request if they are not currently housing one. It would be a way to browse some of the main documents at the back of the book as well, if you decide against getting your own copy for reading/reference.

I will try to list out the photos that are of JB's autopsy:
#8, pg 56
#9, pg 59
#11, pg 68
#13, pg 106
#26, pg 248
#26, pg 385
#29, pg 386

All photos are in black and white, and with the exception of pg 56 and pg 59, should not be terribly disturbing, IMHO.

The book is such a good compilation of case information, if you could figure out a way to mark the above pages and skip over them as you read through, you would still end up learning so much. But there is dialogue on each page which contains a photo, so you would have to consider that.

All the other photos are also in black and white and while they do show the house in it's normal disarray, there is no display of anything gory. If you did not know a child's murder case was being referenced, you might wonder why those particular photos were considered to be prudent to a crime scene.

Hope this helps.

midwest mama

It does in fact help a lot. Thanks a lot for doing that and going to the trouble to list everything. I really appreciate it. I checked 2 of the bigger book stores in my area today and neither of them had a copy for sale. The only book about the case I found was the more recent release from the dad. I read the very first page and wanted to throw the book at the wall. I think maybe I’ll be better off ordering FF online.

Thanks again.

 

[SunnieRN]

Hmmm, that made me think. I think I will call the local book stores here tomorrow and ask if they have Kolar's book and if not, ask when they will be getting copies in. ;-)

 

[Matt21]

Hmmm, that made me think. I think I will call the local book stores here tomorrow and ask if they have Kolar's book and if not, ask when they will be getting copies in. ;-)

So you haven't read it either? At least now I don't feel like I'm the only one. When I asked about them getting any copies of the book, I know it will just be quicker to order one online, so I don't think I will wait for the stores. Especially since they were not even positive they would receive them in the alotted time.