SIDEBAR #26- Arias/Alexander forum

[LinTX]

Well, there are also quite a few instructions in there that say the jurors don't have to have justification for leniency, it's all just up to them individually and what they feel is the appropriate sentence. JM can lead em to water, but...

 

[Tuba]

Deanna R. was a very useful witness for the prosecution but now, apparently Arias wants a go at her. For all we know, it could be an indulgence that proves a huge mistake.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Well, there are also quite a few instructions in there that say the jurors don't have to have justification for leniency, it's all just up to them individually and what they feel is the appropriate sentence. JM can lead em to water, but...

I will have to be optimistic that he can make them drink, as well.

 

[Love Never Fails]

Deanna R. was a very useful witness for the prosecution but now, apparently Arias wants a go at her. For all we know, it could be an indulgence that proves a huge mistake.

Hope so.

 

[LinTX]

Was thinking of this re: that appeal I posted upthread. Reeves murdered his victim June 2007, only one year earlier than Travis' murder. He was tried in Maricopa County - his jury was hung in the penalty phase & a mistrial declared. It was retried and they found for death penalty. He was sentenced in May 2011. By Oct 2013 the AZ Supreme Court was already handing down decisions on his appeal (s?). Meanwhile JA's penalty phase retrial isn't close to beginning, yet the two murders in the same county were only a year apart.

 

[Tuba]

If Nurmi really did say D.R. referred to an expert witness, it may well be one and one that we haven't yet been exposed to. I know the defense toyed with the idea of the killer's mental frailty over the months since May 2013. There could be quite a few categories of witness that surprise us. Only please pul-eeze no more domestic violence "experts"!

 

[AZlawyer]

Respectfully snipped by me.

I'm still kind of confused, though.

Imagine I have been called for jury duty. I've just moved to Arizona from Outer Mongolia where I've been living in a yurt for 3 years with no internet service. The defendant is Agnes O'Houlihan. I've never heard of her, have no idea who she is. I'm told she has been convicted of first degree murder and is facing the death penalty. Just like last year, two members of the Alexander family talk about what a great guy the victim is. Then Jodi puts forth whatever it is that she's going to present.

I have a really hard time picturing myself giving someone the death penalty when I know next to nothing about them or the crime. That's why this whole thing is so perplexing to me.

Thank you. I have been trying to put myself in the place of a juror hoping to get an idea of whether they might feel frustrated due to limited information on certain issues and if this proceeding has to be more about mitigating and less about aggravating factors.

Don't worry, J.M. will bring you up to date on the crime. All the sordid details will be revisited. And aggravators in the penalty phase will be as important as mitigators.

They do have to accept the fact that she was found qualified for the death penalty, but the state and the defense now basically have to present evidence (from what was entered into evidence in the first two phases) that argues whether or not she has "mitigation that is sufficiently substantial to call for leniency". From 2013 Capital Instructions (http://www.azbar.org/media/58847/3-capital_case_instructions_revised_2013.pdf):
In order for them to compare one against the other, they have to know the facts that led the 1st jury to vote on the cruel/heinous aspect of the crime. so the state will be able to present much of their case - not to redo the aggravation phase but to enable the jury to have enough evidence to compare mitigators against aggravators.
AZ Supreme Court denied an appeal last year involving a 2007 murder (STATE V. REEVES) where a mistrial was declared during penalty phase. In this case, the 2nd penalty jury actually found another aggravator that the lst jury hadn't agreed on and voted death , so obviously they heard evidence related to the crime that proved the aggravators. The decision by the court on the appeal is IMO worth a read:
http://supremestateaz.granicus.com/...z_a1e9e27e0880b4f6a658f273183ea04d.pdf&view=1

During this phase, the jury may consider "any aspect of the defendant’s character, propensities, or record and any of the circumstances of the offense that might justify a penalty less severe than death." JM does not have to prove the aggravating factor (cruelty), because that's already been done, and he is not permitted to bring up new ones. (In the Reeves case, the first jury hung on one of the aggravating factors, so the new jury got to consider that factor as well as the mitigators.)

On the other hand, LinTX is correct that the jury gets to decide whether the mitigating factors outweigh the aggravating factor--so they have to be given some detail to understand how much "weight" to apply to the cruelty factor. I expect we will hear again about the pain Travis must have suffered.

 

[daisymae]

I keep popping in and out here because I am watching the giraffe cam. I hope she gives birth today, she certainly is pacing a lot.

I'm also watching Autumn and believe she is past due. Should be soon now!

 

[YESorNO]

I'm also watching Autumn and believe she is past due. Should be soon now!

She was eating, I think, a little while ago. Couldn't see her face- only her back.

I check every so often. Hope she delivers soon.

 

[YESorNO]

Anyone see the Supermoon tonight?

I noticed it when I went out to smoke at about 8:30.
This is the 2nd one this Summer- last one was in July.
Saw that one, too.
I don't remember ever seeing a moon that orange before.

 

[YESorNO]

"Forty-five years ago, Patricia Krenwinkel killed for Charles Manson. Now she provides an emotional account of her life from prison.

...In this Op-Doc video, Ms. Krenwinkel provides her first on-camera interview since 1994, reflecting on her life before and after Manson. This week is the 45th anniversary of her crimes....

...In prison, she has struggled mightily to reconcile two parts of her life: the 21-year-old girl who committed crimes to win the approval of the man she loved; and the 66-year-old woman who lives each day haunted by the unending suffering she has caused.

Ms. Krenwinkel is now the longest serving woman in the California prison system. She says she takes full responsibility for her actions — finally, she says, she is a woman she can accept. But is society ready to accept her back? She is next eligible for parole in 2018."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/opinion/my-life-after-manson.html?_r=0

--------------------------------------------------

Remorse?

 

[Love Never Fails]

Anyone see the Supermoon tonight?

I noticed it when I went out to smoke at about 8:30.
This is the 2nd one this Summer- last one was in July.
Saw that one, too.
I don't remember ever seeing a moon that orange before.

Saw it and it is keeping me awake! Full moons always keep me awake. Grrrrr......,

 

[Love Never Fails]

"Forty-five years ago, Patricia Krenwinkel killed for Charles Manson. Now she provides an emotional account of her life from prison.

...In this Op-Doc video, Ms. Krenwinkel provides her first on-camera interview since 1994, reflecting on her life before and after Manson. This week is the 45th anniversary of her crimes....

...In prison, she has struggled mightily to reconcile two parts of her life: the 21-year-old girl who committed crimes to win the approval of the man she loved; and the 66-year-old woman who lives each day haunted by the unending suffering she has caused.

Ms. Krenwinkel is now the longest serving woman in the California prison system. She says she takes full responsibility for her actions — finally, she says, she is a woman she can accept. But is society ready to accept her back? She is next eligible for parole in 2018."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/opinion/my-life-after-manson.html?_r=0

--------------------------------------------------

Remorse?

Nope. Don't believe her and don't care.

 

[Renee110]

"Forty-five years ago, Patricia Krenwinkel killed for Charles Manson. Now she provides an emotional account of her life from prison.

...In this Op-Doc video, Ms. Krenwinkel provides her first on-camera interview since 1994, reflecting on her life before and after Manson. This week is the 45th anniversary of her crimes....

...In prison, she has struggled mightily to reconcile two parts of her life: the 21-year-old girl who committed crimes to win the approval of the man she loved; and the 66-year-old woman who lives each day haunted by the unending suffering she has caused.

Ms. Krenwinkel is now the longest serving woman in the California prison system. She says she takes full responsibility for her actions — finally, she says, she is a woman she can accept. But is society ready to accept her back? She is next eligible for parole in 2018."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/opinion/my-life-after-manson.html?_r=0

--------------------------------------------------

Remorse?

I truly do NOT think that JA will EVER be able to even pretend to feel remorse. She's not sorry, and she is going to try to prove that not only was she defending herself but that Travis deserved what happened to him.

 

[Spellbound]

I have been watching Autumn, too. I set up the tablet next to my bed so I can peek during the night. Sigh.... Taking a long time it seems.

I saw the Supermoon for the first time! Took a few pics, too.

 

[salberg7]

I can't believe the arrogance of CMJA to even consider representing herself in this penalty phase I think it is purely a stall tactic. Thanks to the poster several pages back who posted the discussion about what can be entered in resentencing penalty trials. JA will IMO try endlessly to introduce evidence of her innocence when in fact that is going to be a given as info the jury already knows.
Anyone know, will she have her jail uniform on or be allowed to wear street clothes?
I think the defense witness Nurmi has discussed is Cheryl Karl, one of the psychologists who interviewed JA prior to her trial. JA admitted to Dr Samuel & ALV that she was physically abused by Travis 4 times, apparently she told Dr Karp there were up to 20 episodes. All total lies of course because there was no physical abuse from Travis to CMJA. JA is grasping at straws. I wonder if JA will summon Matt McCartney this time as he said (but then recanted) he saw her "bruises".
I personally couldn't care less If the trial is streamed live, I hope not for the sake of the People of Arizona & the Alexander family, as Arizona has already spent way too much of the taxpayer money already on this psychopath's trial. If it is live, CMJA will play up to the cameras & make it drag on some more. This trial needs to be over.
I think Judge Stevens' decision will backfire, the murderess will be proven to be in over her head, & the trial will again be delayed so the murderess can again be given time to delay her trip to Perryville.
Who is CMJA going to call as a witness? Now she has been given 5 court approved weekly visits to meet with her witnesses & prep them for the trial. She has no friends. Alice? Doubt it. Her mother? Nurmi opened this door when he refused to call any mitigating character witnesses the last time.
What a waste of taxpayers money. Hopefully it will be over soon. Thank goodness she has to pay for her own appeals. Unless she gets a pro bono attorney, her family can't afford an attorney for appeal. Who will finance that?

 

[Renee110]

I can't believe the arrogance of CMJA to even consider representing herself in this penalty phase I think it is purely a stall tactic. Thanks to the poster several pages back who posted the discussion about what can be entered in resentencing penalty trials. JA will IMO try endlessly to introduce evidence of her innocence when in fact that is going to be a given as info the jury already knows.
Anyone know, will she have her jail uniform on or be allowed to wear street clothes?
I think the defense witness Nurmi has discussed is Cheryl Karl, one of the psychologists who interviewed JA prior to her trial. JA admitted to Dr Samuel & ALV that she was physically abused by Travis 4 times, apparently she told Dr Karp there were up to 20 episodes. All total lies of course because there was no physical abuse from Travis to CMJA. JA is grasping at straws. I wonder if JA will summon Matt McCartney this time as he said (but then recanted) he saw her "bruises".
I personally couldn't care less If the trial is streamed live, I hope not for the sake of the People of Arizona & the Alexander family, as Arizona has already spent way too much of the taxpayer money already on this psychopath's trial. If it is live, CMJA will play up to the cameras & make it drag on some more. This trial needs to be over.
I think Judge Stevens' decision will backfire, the murderess will be proven to be in over her head, & the trial will again be delayed so the murderess can again be given time to delay her trip to Perryville.
Who is CMJA going to call as a witness? Now she has been given 5 court approved weekly visits to meet with her witnesses & prep them for the trial. She has no friends. Alice? Doubt it. Her mother? Nurmi opened this door when he refused to call any mitigating character witnesses the last time.
What a waste of taxpayers money. Hopefully it will be over soon. Thank goodness she has to pay for her own appeals. Unless she gets a pro bono attorney, her family can't afford an attorney for appeal. Who will finance that?

Oh she'll be wearing street clothes, makeup etc. I don't think this is a stall tactic. First, the judge told JA that her motion to represent herself will not delay trial. Her attorneys will still be there as advisors and back up and if she does decide to stop representing herself they will resume their roles as her attorneys. Nope, she just really thinks she is smarter than anyone else and she loves attention and that is why she's representing herself. I think it's funny. If she is sentenced to death, she will get one automatic appeal that is free. If she's give LWOP then she has to pay for her own appeals.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I truly do NOT think that JA will EVER be able to even pretend to feel remorse. She's not sorry, and she is going to try to prove that not only was she defending herself but that Travis deserved what happened to him.

I agree..

I believe the Alexander family should go to Juan Martinez and go along with LWOP or her being pro se is feeding her ego. Burst that bubble now and stop her in her tracks...even as I'd love to hear a jury sentence her to death...it's truly what she deserves.

LWOP she can still continue to harass this family and the memory of Travis..

she'll get decades on appeals if the DP is her sentence...so either way, they face harassment by JA...

 

[Renee110]

Wouldn't Juan have to offer her LWOP and wouldn't she have the choice to accept or not? I have to admit I'm confused a little. Is Life with parole also an option? I don't think she would accept LWOP.. she truly believes if she can just talk to the jury they will see things her way. I think she'd turn down a deal if it wasn't 25 to life. JMO

 

[LambChop]

I feel that if JA does try to get Deanne to testify it will be for one purpose only. There is that hint that JA has a need to make everyone who ever loved Travis suffer. It seems as if she gets a thrill from reliving the crime. So who she calls for witnesses would be very telling. jmo