SIDEBAR #7- Arias/Alexander forum

[seguek9]

OK I live in an area with a large presence of greek restaurants....and I have never heard of "Greek Stuffed Buns" (altho I won't tell you my first thought on those words!)
So what are they?
TIA :seeya:

:giggle:

Its a mixture of hard boiled eggs, olives, feta, basil, rigani, red pepper, chives and olive oil all smooshed up together and stuffed into hollowed out hard rolls. Then baked until ooey and gooey on the inside and crusty/ flaky on the outside.....very yummy but take forever to assemble. They freeze great too!!!

 

[Hope4More]

Oh wow, they really did not understand mitigating circumstances. You certainly are not to use your own life experiences because they would never be the same unless you were involved in this type of crime which means you should never be on this jury. Mitigating circumstances can be factors that may have contributed to the crime that were beyond her control. She was found guilty of premeditation so she can't use that one. The abuse as a child/adult does not apply because she planned the crime. Rehabilitation is another factor and at this prison rehabilitation is not for those serving life. They are never getting out. She is clueless in terms of "trying to help fellow inmates". There are hardened criminals who are not interested in hearing what she will have to say about prison recycling or buying her t-shirts.

As JM tried to tell them all of the mitigating factors Jodi had listed are not applicable to her because they have already found her guilty of premeditated murder. The jury does not believe Travis attacked her making this a cruel and heinous crime. She does not have to be a Charles Manson. Cruel is cruel either way whether it is one person or many. And at this level she should never walk the streets again giving her a chance to add "many" to her iresume. jmo

AZ jury instructions do not REQUIRE jurors to link mitigating factors to the crime itself. The jurors may do so if they choose, individually or collectively. As I read it, it is only if they choose to so that they are obliged to weigh the aggravator of cruelty with the strength of the mitigating factor/factors they believe exist.

The instructions also state that each juror must exercise their individual sense of morality to reach a conclusion. I don't see how it's possible to divorce jurors' morality from their life experiences, whether or not they explicitly state the connection.

 

[kpm]

I'm sorry. Think this is correct link...around the 1:30 mark is where they speak about abuse.

Jodi Arias Jurors: 'Notion of Self Defense Was So Non-Plausible ...


http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/jodi-arias-jurors-notion-defense-plausible-19263611

 

[DebinGA]

ITA!

Travis was in way too much pain/shock from the stab to the heart and losing blood and becoming weaker and weaker very quickly. He was just trying to get away from Jodi and he wasn't even strong enough to do that.

I am not even sure he tried to grab the knife. I think he put up his hands trying to shield some of the stabs and she slashed his hands instead.

IMO

I bet there was a time or two when the knife got stuck, like those two deep stabs in the back of his head which caused bone to chip off. Travis may have been able to grab the blade for a second before JA managed to wrench it out. It's so horrible to imagine that scene, especially knowing JA relishes it even now.

 

[Whack A Mole]

If Mr. Arias has a kidney problem, he has no choice in getting his blood filtered. He might be waiting for a kidney transplant. Not a great life for him at this point.

If you look at him on any video, he shows the jaundice that is so classic with kidney failure. You can't fake that. Even the whites of his eyes show the yellowing of jaundice.

 

[Karmady]

Oh wow, they really did not understand mitigating circumstances. You certainly are not to use your own life experiences because they would never be the same unless you were involved in this type of crime which means you should never be on this jury. Mitigating circumstances can be factors that may have contributed to the crime that were beyond her control. She was found guilty of premeditation so she can't use that one. The abuse as a child/adult does not apply because she planned the crime. Rehabilitation is another factor and at this prison rehabilitation is not for those serving life. They are never getting out. She is clueless in terms of "trying to help fellow inmates". There are hardened criminals who are not interested in hearing what she will have to say about prison recycling or buying her t-shirts.

As JM tried to tell them all of the mitigating factors Jodi had listed are not applicable to her because they have already found her guilty of premeditated murder. The jury does not believe Travis attacked her making this a cruel and heinous crime. She does not have to be a Charles Manson. Cruel is cruel either way whether it is one person or many. And at this level she should never walk the streets again giving her a chance to add "many" to her resume. jmo

Jodi didn't have to list a single mitigating factor and the fact of the pre-meditation conviction isn't relevant to mitigation.

Part of the charge is this ~bbm:

The fact that the defendant has been convicted of first-degree murder is unrelated to the existence of mitigating circumstances. You must give independent consideration to all of the evidence concerning mitigating circumstances, despite the conviction.

* * *

You are not limited to the mitigating circumstances offered by the defendant. You must also consider any other information that you find is relevant in determining whether to impose a life sentence, so long as it relates to an aspect of the defendant’s background, character, propensities, record, or circumstances of the offense.

There's more, but those parts are pretty darned broad. The jury instructions are very difficult, imo. I think the jury did a fine job on that part, at least, based on what they've said in their interviews.

The Penalty Phase charge starts at p. 579

http://www.azbar.org/media/58847/4-capital_case_instructions_revised_2011.pdf

 

[Madeleine74]

Sadly, she does fool some.

She won't fool judges or DOC people at Perryville. She might get out of the DP but she'll never get out of prison alive.

 

[RadarLuv]

Since this thread is kind of a mish mosh of everything, I gotta share this video.

My other passion, besides trial watching, and airplanes is WEATHER, in particular BAD weather. I live in Hurricane country, have gone through 2 bad ones living on the in the storm surge area. I also love severe winter weather, but one of my dreams is to tour with a tornado chaser.

Check out this EF4-EF5 that the TIV (tornado inception vehicle) went through yesterday in KS. WoW!

[video=youtube;LobCDYO78Us]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LobCDYO78Us[/video]

 

[Madeleine74]

AZ jury instructions do not REQUIRE jurors to link mitigating factors to the crime itself. The jurors may do so if they choose, individually or collectively. As I read it, it is only if they choose to so that they are obliged to weigh the aggravator of cruelty with the strength of the mitigating factor/factors they believe exist.

The instructions also state that each juror must exercise their individual sense of morality to reach a conclusion. I don't see how it's possible to divorce jurors' morality from their life experiences, whether or not they explicitly state the connection.

That's why getting a DP sentence is difficult in many cases. BTW, for those who keep asking "if this case doesn't deserve the DP, then what case does?" Well here's one that should!

 

[Emmi]

Especially considering she was in prison on a prostitution charge. That hardly warrants an excruciating death sentence. :twocents:

Yes. But in a civilized society, nobody and nothing warrants it.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

BBM

I've been staring at that for two minutes and it isn't making a lick of sense. I 100% disagree that JA was emotionally abused, but suspension of disbelief for the 4 who might have, based on a couple of texts. They bought that plus ALV's spin. Fine.

To make a leap from that to physical abuse, with the absence of any medical reports, police reports, photographs, witnesses or anything else is truly scary. I can go into court and claim I have a family of rogue unicorns in my backyard, and 1/3 of a jury panel could believe it. Wow.

The more I read about this I truly wonder if it's worth it for the State to retry. If you have upwards of 1/3 of a jury believing physical abuse based on literally NO evidence, there is nothing you can do.

Which is why a non expert like Alv should never have been close to testifying as such. That is squarely on the judge. Not all jurors were able to discern her lies and nonsense IMO.

 

[seguek9]

Ok instead of enemas can we play the "what's your *advertiser censored* name" game?

You take the name of your first pet as your first name and the name of the street you grew up on as your last name.

I am Candy Bishop

Im Rocky Ku'upua
(Hawaiian pole dancing boxer?):floorlaugh:

 

[Jane Jetson]

ITA!

Travis was in way too much pain/shock from the stab to the heart and losing blood and becoming weaker and weaker very quickly. He was just trying to get away from Jodi and he wasn't even strong enough to do that.

I am not even sure he tried to grab the knife. I think he put up his hands trying to shield some of the stabs and she slashed his hands instead.

IMO

Don't know if this is true, but DH says it would be difficult to stab someone in the heart, because you're more likely to hit ribs. Was there more than one stab wound in the heart area? Did she try several times to hit his heart?

What a nightmare. :scared:

 

[Maryann123]

I saw an interview Jodi gave after the 1st degree murder conviction (could have been an old interview, but played at this point) where Jodi says something about not wanting to involve her brother, or something along those lines, and I wondered why she even brought that up. I've been trying to find that video, but with no luck. Does anybody else know what I'm talking about? Did I dream this?

 

[Hope4More]

I wonder the same thing. Why not vote that it wasn't eligible for the DP so it would be off the table and there wouldn't be an issue in the penalty phase? Unless Mr. Foreman was completely outnumbered on that one and just went along with that vote.

The aggravator of cruelty put the DP on the table whether he liked it or not, believing that Travis suffered immensely meant that the aggravator was proven, whether he liked it or not, and no juror who was the slightest bit objective could deny that Travis suffered immensely. I seriously doubt he argued with other jurors that Travis didn't suffer. I'm willing to believe that he thought ahead in his own mind that putting the DP on the table did not mean having to vote for it. Choose your battles and all that.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Yes. But in a civilized society, nobody and nothing warrants it.

Its a just punishment. No call for going soft and weak on violent predators.

 

[kpm]

I saw an interview Jodi gave after the 1st degree murder conviction (could have been an old interview, but played at this point) where Jodi says something about not wanting to involve her brother, or something along those lines, and I wondered why she even brought that up. I've been trying to find that video, but with no luck. Does anybody else know what I'm talking about? Did I dream this?

You not dreaming!
IIRC, she was asked why no one was willing to testify for her.....that's all I can recall of it....she did so many interviews its hard to keep track....

 

[Emmi]

Its a just punishment. No call for going soft and weak on violent predators.

Stunted moral development is the real weakness.

 

[aa9511]

:goodpost:

IMO Well articulated SmoothOperator. I have similar opinions about this case, so it is welcoming to see other similar opinions posted. I do not believe the tenet put forward by the Defense that "they brought out the worst in each other". I hold the opinion that the murderer's psychopathy was being acted out before she ever met Travis. I have even wondered about development of this scenario in her mind and possible 'rehearsal' of the shower scene with previous boyfriends, the camera lens providing a view into her psychopathic inner world. Didn't she coax a previous male friend into the shower to take pictures also? I too hold an opinion that this psychopathy was building up over time. Unfortunately Travis's trusting & sheltered life caused him to underestimate how dangerous she actually was becoming. Travis became the victim. The murderer showed significant 'calculation' before and after the murder. All just my opinion of course. :twocents:

Yes, I agree completely with everything above. I CANNOT BELIEVE FOREMAN DIDN"T GET THIS. REmember, he said "there was Jodi before June 4, who seemed like a PERFECTLY NORMAL GIRL, and then there was the Jodi after June 4." Ugghhhh...I just wanted to puke, literally. That is just so wrong. I have no doubt that CMJA was a sick pyscho probably since her early teens. And no, that's not from stuff on Nancy Grace. That is from things heard in the courtroom, things which not only the Foreman heard, but we heard too. It's not like he's missing out on any information. THe ONLY thing I can think is that maybe Juan was going too fast for him and he didn't get the important parts in his cross of CMJA regarding to her past relationships? He didn't undertsand the significane of "backspace, backspace" on Bobby's computer, of her confrontation with Biance, etc. etc..

 

[Shelby1]

Since this thread is kind of a mish mosh of everything, I gotta share this video.

My other passion, besides trial watching, and airplanes is WEATHER, in particular BAD weather. I live in Hurricane country, have gone through 2 bad ones living on the in the storm surge area. I also love severe winter weather, but one of my dreams is to tour with a tornado chaser.

Check out this EF4-EF5 that the TIV (tornado inception vehicle) went through yesterday in KS. WoW!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LobCDYO78Us

I'm a weather watcher, too! Wednesday, here in Kansas, our torcon is 7!