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chefmom said:
I so agree! And, I wouldn't be surprised if, sometime in the future, she doesn't dangle it in front of GA when he makes her mad and say something like, "Don't pizz me off or I'll be wearing you next." moo
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Oh my gawd... :shocked2: I can actually "hear" her say that!!
 
Aedrys said:
I don't just see it as denial. For one, it was Cindy leaving Baez's office upset, not Casey. I remembered it happening, and us talking about it here because we all thought she should have been devastated long before this visit to Baez. I want to say it happened in October 2008? It happened not long before the two bumbling detective wannabes (Dominic Casey and the other guy that was filming him, though DC said he didn't know any filming was going on) went on a search for Caylee, and thankfully didn't find her. It was all over the news that Cindy had walked out of Baez's office looking devastated. I wish I could remember more (If anyone can find an article about it, I'll love you forever.)

I never said that they were just in denial. A person can be in denial, but also be calculated and conniving. The perfect example of that is this case. I think Cindy in particular could not and still does not accept that Casey is a murderer. She believes Casey is her, that Caylee was an extension of them, that all three were one in the same. Therefore Casey can't be a murderer because Cindy is not a murderer. I think that drove her to be conniving and calculating in saving Casey. She had to because Casey can't be a murderer. That was and still is her driving thought every minute of every day. She'll never accept that Casey intentionally killed Caylee.

Denial is not an excuse. It doesn't make someone incapable of doing calculated and conniving things to save someone. It actually drives them to be that way, especially when the person being saved is a sociopath. I don't know if you've ever had to deal with a sociopath, and I hope to God you never do, but they make people like this for them. They trick them, wrap them around their fingers, and get them to continually sacrifice themselves over and over to save or support the sociopath. The family will believe the sociopath can do no wrong and do things like go bankrupt to support the sociopath. The sociopath will drain their family and even their friends dry all to continue gaining something for themselves. They don't care about anything but themselves. And they are masters of lying and deceit. They know to butter people up and destroy them in the next moment. Then after destroying them, they will find a way to suck them back in and use them some more.

Casey has mastered using her mother over and over. She'll continue to use Cindy until the day Cindy dies. That's all Cindy is to her, not a mother, but just another person to use, to lie to, to steal from. And Cindy continually lets her do it even if behind closed doors she yells at Casey and calls her bad things. I'm sure the next moment Cindy is apologizing and letting Casey do what she wants to do. Cindy can't quit Casey and Casey is not about to quit Cindy.

I only dealt with a sociopath for a year, and thankfully, she realized I wasn't buying her BS anymore and left me alone. The problem with Casey's family is that Cindy always covers and lies for Casey. Casey can always rope Cindy back in even if they had a volatile relationship. Cindy can't make herself not support Casey, not lie for her, not cover for her no matter what. Not even Caylee's death changed that, IMO. Casey is just waiting to get off probation so she can go back to Cindy. It's going to happen. Cindy and Casey cannot live without each other.

And like I said, the men in that family are trained. They are a lot like Cindy because she has trained them to be that way. CIndy has her claws dug firmly into those man, their manhood in her pocket forever. She raised Lee to be the family peacekeeper, but also to be conniving and calculated to do anything for the family. She has made George wholly dependent on her, and knows how to get him to do what she wants, even if it meant sacrificing him at trial to save Casey. She will also convince him to let Casey come back home. She has already let him be angry about what Casey did. Then it will be telling him to forgive Casey and let her come back home. That is what is coming next. That is going to happen because Cindy says so. She'll even convince Lee to forgive Casey and have them all be a twisted family together again. I have no doubt that Casey will be babysitting Lee's kids, and living in the same home with George for a long time. Cindy will make sure that happens because Casey is her, and Casey can't do any wrong because they are all a perfect family. Casey isn't a murderer because Cindy isn't a murderer. They all are perfect and Cindy will keep them that way.

It's all about the family. They are like a little mini mafia. It's them versus the world with Cindy at the helm. I remember Cindy saying that nobody messes with the Anthony's. That is their mindset. No matter what Casey has done, it's cover, lie, cover, lie and so on. And Cindy's denial fuels this lying an covering up. She will do it for the rest of her life because Casey is her and that means Casey can't be a murderer.

The denial goes hand in hand with the conniving, the calculating, the lying, and the covering up. It's the prime dysfunction in this family brought on by a narcissistic mother and exacerbated by a sociopath daughter. The whole family is corrupt and disgusting with the highest lack of morals and ethics I've ever seen. Yes, they are self serving in that Casey is one of them, and they will do anything for her. They, especially Cindy, will twist reality to fit their delusions. Casey didn't kill Caylee. It was a massive conspiracy by LE, the prosecutions, TES, and anyone that doesn't support Casey to try and get her convicted for something she didn't do. Cindy will believe that until the day she dies. It is a belief that will continue to break her but also continue her diabolical ways in protecting and supporting Casey. Casey is a religion to Cindy, and she has made Casey a religion to those two men.

We've all seen how religious beliefs can make people do wacky and insane things, even kill people or kill themselves. I think Cindy's belief in Casey is like that. It's twisted, but also cold and calculated, full of denial yet a driving force that has further corrupted that family because of having to cover for Casey. I do think that the DT also drilled into them over and over that Casey was going to die. Cindy definitely does not want Casey dead. I think that along with her denial fueled a campaign full of rage and lies, cover up and destruction, and that Cindy's smile at the verdict wasn't for Casey, but was for Cindy winning the game against the world despite all odds. How powerful Cindy must feel even now. Not even LE and the death penalty could take Casey away from her.

Because that's what this all was to the Anthony's, a massive game they had to win. They don't realize how lucky they were this time, and that this will not happen again. Actually, I think George may know that, and maybe even Lee, but they aren't telling Cindy and still do what she wants. She has them whipped to her demands. They'll never change, never do the right thing. It will always be the three of them at the altar of Casey, Cindy the head priestess, and George and Lee the eternal acolytes to do Cindy's bidding. It's a cycle they'll continue to live as long as they are all alive.

I don't look at them as one or the other. They are not either denial or conniving and calculating. They are both, twisted together, and that is what makes them so dangerous, especially when it comes to Casey.
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I've heard about CA leaving JB's office upset but I don't know if it's true. Could it be a rumor that was stated so many times it became fact? I would assume CA walked from JB's office to her car. Did someone follow her and videotape her as she was leaving?

With all due respect, I don't believe living with someone that you diagnosed as a sociopath makes you an expert on the Anthony family and what goes on behind closed door. I'm going to assume your roommate was not a murderer. GA left CA at least once. LA moved out too shortly after Caylee was born. That's not a decision one makes if they are under control of another.

CA/GA chose FCA over Caylee. I believe it was pure greed because they learned very early on that $$$$ can be made by exploiting Caylee. Arrogance played a part (don't mess with the As or you'll lose) as well as the need to be seen as the perfect family. This is all just my opinion after watching them in action for years. The whole bunch is evil to the core. Again MOO.

CA/GA were lying for FCA before she was charged with murder so the decision to go for the DP had nothing to do with the lying that went on for months.

IMO
 
When LG asked why would JA speak about the A's the way that he did, (IMO very kindly, and I liked JA for that) I can only guess...

Perhaps he's just a real good guy who feels the A's have been through enough, regardless of certain facts.

Perhaps it might rot someone's socks to read kind words about their parents and compel the fisties.

Perhaps a certain DT member's accusation made during their secret meeting with CA (and I don't believe that JB's ever denied that this happened), crossed a line and is a big no-no in the legal community, and now that JA has exposed what JB did to CA/GA....well, where is JB anyways these days? Not that I'm looking for him, but is he riding high on his big success, or has he ran out gas on dumb luck bus he's been riding around for 3+ years?

I'd rather think that JA's too old a cat to be fooled by kittens, and since his enlightening book that he dedicated to Caylee has come out - lots of bad apples have fallen out of this tree, i.e. CM's midnight hour plea deal request, OCA's competency hearing, the two sealed dr. depo's, lots of stuff, and maybe there are a few more ripe ones ready to hit the ground.
 
Intermezzo said:
Good morning fellow WS'ers

Anyone else on Jury watch in the Shafia "honour killing" trial in Kingston Ontario?

Here is part of the Crown Prosecutors closing statement

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/01/26/shafia-murder-trial.html

In her summation, Lacelle also reminded jury members that they don't have to know what happened or how it happened precisely to convict the three accused of first-degree murder.
"It should come as no surprise in a quadruple murder where the only witnesses are either dead or on trial, that there may be some holes," Lacelle said, calling the evidence overwhelming and irrefutable.
The Crown has proved all essential elements of the offence. You know this is not an accident. It was murder."
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logicalgirl said:
Yes, I am. Very interesting to watch, particularly since we have had a number of "honour killings" among the South Asian community here in BC. Except they haven't carried the honour killing labels, just plain murder, of wives or daughters.

I will be extremely disappointed if this jury does not return a verdict of guilty on the highest charges.
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LG!!!!!
The Shafia trial Jury came back with a GUILTY Verdict.
The Jury found all 3 GUILTY of First degree murder!!!

:great:

This was a circumstantial evidence case, some of the evidence was computer searches including "where to commit a murder" searches for bodies of water ..the Crown could not tell the jury "exactly" how the 4 women died,
Yes they drowned. but the Crown could not tell conclusively where they drowned

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/01/29/shafia-sunday.html

'Twisted notion of honour'

Maranger said it is difficult to imagine a more "heinous crime" than two parents convicted of killing three of their own daughters for "an apparent notion of honour that has absolutely no place in any civilized society."

"The apparent reason behind these cold shameful murders was that four (victims) offended your twisted notion of honour," the judge said.
 
quick question? Has Musikman started ANY threads on his experiences yet????? :waitasec: TIA! :seeya:
 
Intermezzo said:
bbm
I have not seen proof Baez's wife had a baby in 2011 and I still treat it as a rumour

iirc, OCA had developed a crush on Jose Garcia (who left the Baez law firm) and his wife was pregnant a few years back in 2008 or 2009
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I saw a few photos of Mrs. Baez when she was obviously pregnant. And Mr. Baez did make it a point to mention about *saving a life* comment, that he would tell his child after the verdict. I doubt that would be something he would tell his twenty something daughter.
 
I'm gonna consider MM's return like a date night I'm so excited :great: (no offense to Mrs. MM if there is one) - or maybe its gonna be a block buster WS BLOG TAAAAALK radio event :popcorn: ...
 
I keep thinking that FKC murdered Caylee because nothing else makes sense. If the ridiculous opening statement been true, GA would have "confessed" after Caylee had decomposed to the point that a cause of death could not be determined and they probably both would have done a few years for mistreating a corpse. I can't imagine a man letting his daughter face the death penalty for an accident that he knew about. Even if GA had killed Caylee after molesting her (didn't happen, I don't believe it for a second) he still could have made up the drowning story after the 31 days.

If someone else were involved, I think FKC would have begged for immunity then pinned it on the other person.

If it were an accident that nobody else knew about, I still think she could have said, "I was skeeeeered!!! Nobody cared about meeeeeeeee!!! She drowneded!!!!!!!!!!" and might have done some time but wouldn't have faced the DP, I don't think.

If a stranger had killed Caylee, then FKC wouldn't have made up all of the Zanny nonsense.

BTW, has anyone ever read/heard the first 2 lines of Steve Camp's song, "Run to the Battle"? :innocent:

I don't want to go to time out so I won't quote them

:innocent:
 
zippitydoda said:
I'm gonna consider MM's return like a date night I'm so excited :great: (no offense to Mrs. MM if there is one) - or maybe its gonna be a block buster WS BLOG TAAAAALK radio event :popcorn: ...
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I can't stand it!!! Have we heard anything more? Oh, MM...olly, olly, in come free!!
 
bayouland said:
BBM. Good question. I'd like to know too.

Is he just now realizing he crossed the line in defending his client?

Did he act like a novice, break all ethical rules, and put his career on the line for fame and fortune, only to have it blow up in his face?

Did he participate in something illegal?
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ZsaZsa said:
He still has those complaints to the Florida Bar hanging over his head.
Maybe he knows something we don't- like how those complaints were dealt with....
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and I think the lovely little viper had a bit to do with it as well - perhaps and unsavory accusation...and a threat.

ZsaZsa - I think you are spot on here...
 
Jeez - I couldn't find the site from my main Caylee site on WS! Guess I will have to bookmark this page now as it's so buried in WS I couldn't find it when I wanted (needed, lol) to. So.........bumping for those of "us" QUITTERS! and "our supporters" [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161024"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161024[/ame]
 
What is the news with Musikman? if you dont mind filling me in?
 
Bravo said:
What is the news with Musikman? if you dont mind filling me in?
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[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7367336#post7367336"]***SPOILER ALERT*** Imperfect Justice by Jeff Ashton - CONTENT DISCUSSION - Page 35 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


Muzikman wrote about their adventures in the thread link above, there are a few posts from MM on that page too - this story would certainly make for one interesting WS radio show...
 
oh my oh my I'm watching "Cold Case Files" don't know which channel because I have the digital antenna thingy - I got all excited because they were talking about going to the Body Farm for help - and thought I was going to get to see Sweetie Pie Dr. Vass - but it was Dr. Bass........I need a Dr. Vass moment right now....off in search of Dr. Vass photos ahhhhhhhhh
 
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