Sidebar for Caylee Anthony's forum #14

[Steely Dan]

Unfortunately, the prosecution didn't realize they'd get a full jury of

who have problems understanding their own shoelaces. JMO :banghead:

 

[Steely Dan]

Then the OCSO and the SA missed what I consider to be a HUGE piece of damning evidence that may have made a difference during trial.

The OCSO office didn't look at KC's Firefox browser for some reason. I can't believe they let that go. I've used FF for a long time, probably prior to 2008. If they would have called me, or even better, FF they could have found it. JMO

 

[twall]

On the one hand, and knowing how sloppy and live for the second KC is, I would venture to write that she gave up on the technicalities and simply suffocated Caylee with the tape.
On the other hand, she DID search for chloroform and Dr. Vass did find what he found, and the FBI did have to (nearly) admit that they were not as savvy as Dr. Vass when it came to the detection of chloroform.
I still have to believe that she made a nasty batch of something. Even if it was not chemically correct chloroform, maybe if a bag was included in the suffocation then the otherwise flimsy chems were concentrated and perhaps lethal.
Especially in conjunction with a 100 degree trunk.

I am still interested in how this may narrow the timeline.

But beyond the method of death, my greatest curiosity is how on Earth she got Caylee into the woods like that. When? Did she walk into that swampy mess? No muddy/dirty shoes? Argh......Okey doke, y'all. Gotta hang it up for the night. I am so easily angered by this case, by her...$%#@&!!!

She makes me have Godless thoughts and it's a good time for me to hang it up now and keep my cool, before the mods send me to bed instead! 'Night!

It is very easy to get a nasty batch of something, I have done it without even trying. I have never mixed bleach and acetone together but after reading those are the main ingredients in chloroform I took a whiff of nail polish remover with acetone and it is very strong. Also, once when I was trying to get rust out of the toilet I poured Iron Out in with some type of cleaner that probably had bleach in it and oh my, I had to flush quickly and leave the bathroom, it burned my eyes and lungs so bad I couldn't hardly breathe. As far as to not finding any mud or dirt that matched the swamp area she could have disposed on them or was it not wet in that area during that time?
Poor Caylee. My heart aches for her.

 

[katydid23]

It is very easy to get a nasty batch of something, I have done it without even trying. I have never mixed bleach and acetone together but after reading those are the main ingredients in chloroform I took a whiff of nail polish remover with acetone and it is very strong. Also, once when I was trying to get rust out of the toilet I poured Iron Out in with some type of cleaner that probably had bleach in it and oh my, I had to flush quickly and leave the bathroom, it burned my eyes and lungs so bad I couldn't hardly breathe. As far as to not finding any mud or dirt that matched the swamp area she could have disposed on them or was it not wet in that area during that time?
Poor Caylee. My heart aches for her.

OMG. I almost died accidentally using that Iron Out stuff. I was trying to get rust out of a concrete garage floor. The door was closed and not much fresh air in the garage. When I bent down to rub it in, I took a whiff and almost passed out. I literally had to crawl to the door to the kitchen. I was gasping and felt burning in my lungs for days.

 

[QueenD]

Wow, I couldn't sleep. I feel like I am back in the trial days where I would get up early to see what I missed.

Been reading the other thread congratulations to AZ and JWG!

 

[sorrell skye]

I am not going to be heavily critical or negative towards the prosecution. I think they were 'old school' attorneys, focusing upon the basic forensics of the case. They were hanging their hats upon the evidence of a dead body in the trunk, and the devastating descriptions of the horrid behavior of the defendant.

I don't think they were aware yet of the power of social media and of the potential strength of a computer history trail. They were mired in the scientific minutae of DNA leaking from garbage bags and they were confident that the nanny story would put Casey away.

These attorneys worked 7 days a week, well into the night, and put their heart and soul into this case. I am not going to fault them too savagely, using 20/20 hindsight. Looking back, it would have been better if they pushed back against Baez's fanciful lies. But at the time, they thought the jury was actually taking in the evidence and weighing it against Baez's opening statement. Who knew they stopped listening that first day?

BBM

One of the SA's arguments at trial involved computer searches (chloroform) in an effort to prove premeditated murder. I don't believe for a minute that the SA was naive regarding computer history/searches and how it would impact their case, considering how they used computer forensics @ trial.

As far as the SA's job to "push back against Baez's fanciful lies": the SA had no concrete idea what lies JB would promote until they heard them on the opening day of trial.

ETA: The fact of the matter is: the SA was in possession of the computer history well before the case went to trial. I will not make excuses for why they failed to find & present evidence that may have made the difference in the outcome of the prosecution of Casey Anthony.

They are capable of making their own excuses.

 

[Seajay]

To me the smoking gun was the search being after KC's password protected account was logged into. That ties her to the search. I know Baez was planning on pinning it on GA, but there was a better chance the jurors would have connected it to KC. IMO

 

[Steely Dan]

To me the smoking gun was the search being after KC's password protected account was logged into. That ties her to the search. I know Baez was planning on pinning it on GA, but there was a better chance the jurors would have connected it to KC. IMO

At the end of tonight's report, they say something that leads me to believe that they can prove it had to be Casey and they confront JB with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zpxS4Nyx7A

 

[Gnatcatcher]

To me the smoking gun was the search being after KC's password protected account was logged into. That ties her to the search. I know Baez was planning on pinning it on GA, but there was a better chance the jurors would have connected it to KC. IMO

I don't think that particular group of 12 could have connected a plug to an outlet.

 

[twall]

At the end of the local 6 report Pipitone states the OCSO tried to decode the browser Casey used and failed. I wonder if the FBI could have done it and if so, why didn't the OCSO ask for their help?

 

[Steely Dan]

At the end of the local 6 report Pipitone states the OCSO tried to decode the browser Casey used and failed. I wonder if the FBI could have done it and if so, why didn't the OCSO ask for their help?

The FBI, the makers of Firefox, possibly even me could have helped them. It appears there wasn't much effort put into this. JMO

 

[2goldfish]

I am not trying to be challenging in the least but I keep thinking that I would never use "foolproof suffocation" as a search term. "Suffocation" alone ~ yes; and that would get the job done! But it seems strange to me to even think of "foolproof." "Guaranteed" or "certain" seem more in line with Casey's vocabulary. Or even better yet ~ suffocation for dummies. Foolproof just seems a bit above her level, and surprises me.

ya know to me though the fact that she had to search at all shows her sheer stupidity, who on earth does not know by the age of oh, 5 or so, what things cause death by suffocation?

and the fact she was stupid enough to do a search AT ALL and not destroy the hard drive?

okay I get that it all turned out to nothing which is stunning in itself (I hate you pinellas 12, jury of offender anthony's peers, in the purest sense of the phrase) but she really just did one stupid cold hearted thing after another didnt she.

 

[2goldfish]

I think it's already been said, but the worse thing for me about this is that it tells me that Casey didn't get mad and "snap" and kill Caylee, but that she "researched" and planned it and carried it out in a cold, calculating manner.

She is evil.

And thanks to the trial/jury/missteps, she walks among us.

ITA that is the worst for me, I used to think it was a rage thing after not sleeping well, I've got two kids and insomnia so I know it can be a bit of a trial (but yes MY kids are living breathing present and accounted for) but god, WHO is cold and horrible enough to just calmly google how to kill their kid, on a monday afternoon, then proceed to kill their kid, on monday afternoon, stick the body in the truck of their car and CARRY ON WITH LIFE.

casey anthony, that's who. and the other gross thing? JB and all the rest sheltering her? know this and can get within ten feet of her without a problem at all? I'm not saying I think she's a danger to things bigger than her, she's a coward really but knowing what I know about her? she would literally sicken me. it would actually make me SICK to be anywhere near anyone that horrible. someone who could do those things barely passes as human IMO

 

[SwampMama]

Can a person be retried if new evidence surfaces?

She cant be tried in the same court for the same crime.

But everyone please look at the case in my siggy below. Cyrus Casby was tried for the 4 deaths of my student and my student's family (including his own 1 year old daughter) and was astoundingly acquitted.

But the crime was in the New Orleans BEFORE Katrina and the trial was AFTER so who is to say what was lost in the storm as far as evidence (as evidence rooms were ruined in some courts). Not to mention that so many potential witnesses has long left Louisiana in the aftermath of Katrina.

But it was a case that cried out for justice and the feds stepped in. My student (Cleveland) and his family lived and were killed in federally subsidized housing and that house was set on fire in the commission of the crime. So that is a FEDERAL crime. It CAN be tried again, this time with the feds (insert a happy dance here, I almost died of utter shock when I heard this a few months back).

Anyway enough of my OT stuff but miracles can happen. They can in cases that cry out for justice. Here are some links about that case that tell HOW and WHY he was tried again.

http://la.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.20120316_0000358.ELA.htm/qx

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/10/federal_prosecutors_seek_delay.html

 

[Zoe Bogart]

The FBI, the makers of Firefox, possibly even me could have helped them. It appears there wasn't much effort put into this. JMO

Same here, Steely. I've been using FF for ages. People familiar with the browser should have been consulted.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

She cant be tried in the same court for the same crime.

But everyone please look at the case in my siggy below. Cyrus Casby was tried for the 4 deaths of my student and my student's family (including his own 1 year old daughter) and was astoundingly acquitted.

But the crime was in the New Orleans BEFORE Katrina and the trial was AFTER so who is to say what was lost in the storm as far as evidence (as evidence rooms were ruined in some courts). Not to mention that so many potential witnesses has long left Louisiana in the aftermath of Katrina.

But it was a case that cried out for justice and the feds stepped in. My student (Cleveland) and his family lived and were killed in federally subsidized housing and that house was set on fire in the commission of the crime. So that is a FEDERAL crime. It CAN be tried again, this time with the feds (insert a happy dance here, I almost died of utter shock when I heard this a few months back).

Anyway enough of my OT stuff but miracles can happen. They can in cases that cry out for justice. Here are some links about that case that tell HOW and WHY he was tried again.

http://la.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.20120316_0000358.ELA.htm/qx

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/10/federal_prosecutors_seek_delay.html

Can't believe I never heard of this case before now. I'll have to read up on it although the first name "Cleveland" vaguely rings a bell. Maybe Katrina knocked it out of my head.

BBM - I hope the Feds can do something about it.

ETA I used to live on that very short street decades ago when the apartments were brand new and privately owned! It used to be Mary Poppins.

 

[md89]

ya know to me though the fact that she had to search at all shows her sheer stupidity, who on earth does not know by the age of oh, 5 or so, what things cause death by suffocation?

and the fact she was stupid enough to do a search AT ALL and not destroy the hard drive?

okay I get that it all turned out to nothing which is stunning in itself (I hate you pinellas 12, jury of offender anthony's peers, in the purest sense of the phrase) but she really just did one stupid cold hearted thing after another didnt she.

I hate to write this down but maybe she tried to suffocate/strangle Caylee right before the Google search but it took too long or she couldn't control Caylee. Maybe that's why she searched for 'fool-proof suffication'.

ETA: I just realized that she logged into AIM right before the search so my 'theory' doesn't make sense.

 

[SwampMama]

Can't believe I never heard of this case before now. I'll have to read up on it although the first name "Cleveland" vaguely rings a bell. Maybe Katrina knocked it out of my head.

BBM - I hope the Feds can do something about it.

ETA I used to live on that very short street decades ago when the apartments were brand new and privately owned! It used to be Mary Poppins.

Wow, so close. For some reason, Cleveland's case never got much press. Sad as 2 children died and another was left so brain damaged that he will never leave the medical facility he is in.

 

[Tugela]

A more likely explanation is that Casey was considering suicide since she was looking up suicide methods. It would still be consistent with her apparent account for the day. In fact it would be something that might be expected under those circumstances.

The prosecution did not prove that Caylee was poisoned with chloroform. They claimed that based on traces of chloroform found in the car, but, as any organic chemist would know, the amounts of any ingested chloroform would not be enough to account for anything found in the car. Chloroform is a lipophilic compound that would absorb in fatty tissue and stay there, it would not outgas from a body in any significant extent at the sorts of levels where you might be rendered unconcious. I am a chemist and in my opinion the prosecutions theory was ludicrous. At the very least they should have demonstrated that their theory was plausible using a control (such as an animal body pretreated with appropriate amounts of chloroform and packaged in such a way as to prevent fluid leakage).

And in any case, where would she have gotten chloroform from? It is not readily available, and while it could be made, it is not something easily or quickly done by someone with no experience or knowledge.

They also did not prove that she was suffocated. The evidence showed that the body had been wrapped. That does not mean it was wrapped prior to death.

 

[2goldfish]

A more likely explanation is that Casey was considering suicide since she was looking up suicide methods. It would still be consistent with her apparent account for the day. In fact it would be something that might be expected under those circumstances.

The prosecution did not prove that Caylee was poisoned with chloroform. They claimed that based on traces of chloroform found in the car, but, as any organic chemist would know, the amounts of any ingested chloroform would not be enough to account for anything found in the car. Chloroform is a lipophilic compound that would absorb in fatty tissue and stay there, it would not outgas from a body in any significant extent at the sorts of levels where you might be rendered unconcious. I am a chemist and in my opinion the prosecutions theory was ludicrous. At the very least they should have demonstrated that their theory was plausible using a control (such as an animal body pretreated with appropriate amounts of chloroform and packaged in such a way as to prevent fluid leakage).

And in any case, where would she have gotten chloroform from? It is not readily available, and while it could be made, it is not something easily or quickly done by someone with no experience or knowledge.

They also did not prove that she was suffocated. The evidence showed that the body had been wrapped. That does not mean it was wrapped prior to death.

first paragraph: I didnt see any searches for suicide methods, can you back that up with a link please? I saw a search for "fool-proof suffication" which sure, could mean anything but does not indicate to me suicide? it does, however, indicate the intention to "sufficate" someone else, when looked at as a piece to the whole of june 16th, 2008

second: I do not think the state ever was trying to prove caylee was poisoned by chloroform, so no surprise they were unable to do so I suppose. I believe they were trying to show that there was an indication that caylee may have been CHEMICALLY RESTRAINED. I am very pleased to hear we finally have someone who can answer a positive to JB's constant question of "...but are you a chemist?!?!"! however, as much as I believe you are correct in what you say about ingesting chroloform etc, you may not have placed enough weight on the duct tape, which I think most of us following believe was the cause of death....suffocation.



third: uhm, I can make it myself, right now. (no, alas, I am not a chemist) I know this because of this case, because in march of 2008 casey anthony googled how to do this. so there is some indication that she not only wanted to know how to make it, but also that she knew how it could be made ... although as a chemist yourself you are probably already aware that it isnt so very difficult.

fourth: I suppose you may have me there....a lot of people were, I think, convinced that duct tape (suffocation) was ultimately the cause of caylee anthony's death but as JB figured out pretty quickly, you can fool some of the people some of the time and not all of the people all of the time etc, they just managed to pull a crowd of 12 who could be fooled...ie, with an inability to think critically. or at all, IMO but it is what it is.