Sidebar for Caylee Anthony's forum #14

[Tugela]

She cant be tried in the same court for the same crime.

But everyone please look at the case in my siggy below. Cyrus Casby was tried for the 4 deaths of my student and my student's family (including his own 1 year old daughter) and was astoundingly acquitted.

But the crime was in the New Orleans BEFORE Katrina and the trial was AFTER so who is to say what was lost in the storm as far as evidence (as evidence rooms were ruined in some courts). Not to mention that so many potential witnesses has long left Louisiana in the aftermath of Katrina.

But it was a case that cried out for justice and the feds stepped in. My student (Cleveland) and his family lived and were killed in federally subsidized housing and that house was set on fire in the commission of the crime. So that is a FEDERAL crime. It CAN be tried again, this time with the feds (insert a happy dance here, I almost died of utter shock when I heard this a few months back).

Anyway enough of my OT stuff but miracles can happen. They can in cases that cry out for justice. Here are some links about that case that tell HOW and WHY he was tried again.

http://la.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.20120316_0000358.ELA.htm/qx

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/10/federal_prosecutors_seek_delay.html

Presumably they will be using the same evidence that was presented at the first trial, and in that trial the jury went 10-2 for acquittal. The jury knew about the confession at trial. It implies that the remaining evidence was pretty weak. If he was acquitted on that margin in the first trial, chances are he will be acquitted again.

I don't think they can do that in this case because the federal government has to have an interest that was violated for it to fall under their jurisdiction, otherwise they can't lay charges and it is purely a state case.

 

[TorisMom003]

In order for the duct tape to have still been in place to the point of holding Caylee's mandible in the correct position, I think it is safe to say that the three pieces of duct tape were put on before death. Not to mention the fact that there is no reason at all to put duct tape across a person's nose and mouth after they are already dead. I have heard some say that perhaps the duct tape was to stop leakage but that also makes no sense as there are other areas where leakage would have occured more so than the nose and mouth.

There were high levels of chloroform in the trunk of the car where a dead body had been. That does not mean that the chloroform escaped from the body. Just that chloroform had been in the trunk. Casey could have accidentaly spilled it in the trunk. It could have been on a rag that had been in the trunk. The possiblities are numerous.

I have never seen a case where an accident was made to look like a murder. Duct tape across the nose and mouth does not shout accident, it shouts murder. Placed in three bags and tossed into a wooded area also shouts murder as most rational people would call 911 in the event of an accident no matter how far gone their loved one is.

Computer records show what was on Casey's mind during the months leading up to Caylee's death. On the day of Caylee's death computer records show a search for fool-proof suffocation. Plain and simply put, Casey got away with murder.

Thank you to AZ and JWG both for your hard work. It is an honor to "know" two people that care so much for a little girl they never met that they took the time to find the truth.

ETA: After getting to know Casey during these past few years (not personally, just based on the trial and what has come out) I would be willing to bet that Casey has NEVER thought of suicide. Casey loves herself and no one else. She thinks she is perfect just the way she is. People like that do not kill themselves. They use and abuse others until the others are no longer usefull. They very seldom, if ever, kill themselves.
MOO

 

[Tugela]

first paragraph: I didnt see any searches for suicide methods, can you back that up with a link please? I saw a search for "fool-proof suffication" which sure, could mean anything but does not indicate to me suicide? it does, however, indicate the intention to "sufficate" someone else, when looked at as a piece to the whole of june 16th, 2008

second: I do not think the state ever was trying to prove caylee was poisoned by chloroform, so no surprise they were unable to do so I suppose. I believe they were trying to show that there was an indication that caylee may have been CHEMICALLY RESTRAINED. I am very pleased to hear we finally have someone who can answer a positive to JB's constant question of "...but are you a chemist?!?!"! however, as much as I believe you are correct in what you say about ingesting chroloform etc, you may not have placed enough weight on the duct tape, which I think most of us following believe was the cause of death....suffocation.



third: uhm, I can make it myself, right now. (no, alas, I am not a chemist) I know this because of this case, because in march of 2008 casey anthony googled how to do this. so there is some indication that she not only wanted to know how to make it, but also that she knew how it could be made ... although as a chemist yourself you are probably already aware that it isnt so very difficult.

fourth: I suppose you may have me there....a lot of people were, I think, convinced that duct tape (suffocation) was ultimately the cause of caylee anthony's death but as JB figured out pretty quickly, you can fool some of the people some of the time and not all of the people all of the time etc, they just managed to pull a crowd of 12 who could be fooled...ie, with an inability to think critically. or at all, IMO but it is what it is.

The relevant bit is:

•Five seconds later, the user clicks on an article that criticizes pro-suicide websites that include advice on "foolproof" ways to die. "Poison yourself and then follow it up with suffocation" by placing "a plastic bag over the head," the writer quotes others as advising;

The intent of the search is obvious.

Duct tape was used to secure the body and the packaging. That isn't hard to understand. I don't want to be graphic here, but if the body was decaying by the time it was disposed of, the duct tape might simply have been there to hold everything together. In any case, if duct tape had been used for that purpose, pre or post mortem, I would think that there absolutely would still be traces of tissue attached to adhesive side (hairs, skin, stuff like that), and from my understanding there was not. So I think the final position of the duct tape was simply due to movements of the environment around the body while it was sitting in the swamp.

The chloroform would still have to be made, which means that she would need materials that likely weren't available in the house. It would take time, and, if she had never done it before (as apparently evidenced by the internet search) she would have no experience. That means she would need to experiment, try different batches multiple times to get it to work, then figure out how she was going to recover it. In other words, it is not something that she could have done readily or quickly. If she wanted to kill Caylee there are much simpler ways of doing it. Why would she need to do something so exotic that she had no experience with? The prosecution came up with this theory to fit random observations into cause of death, but it is really kind of ridiculous.

 

[Joanner]

This is a pretty good article on the story that unfolded yesterday.

CASEY ANTHONY: Prosecutors unaware of computer search for "foolproof suffocation"

http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/283261/250/Casey-Anthony-The-Overlooked-Evidence

 

[TorisMom003]

The relevant bit is:



Duct tape was used to secure the body and the packaging. That isn't hard to understand. I don't want to be graphic here, but if the body was decaying by the time it was disposed of, the duct tape might simply have been there to hold everything together. In any case, if duct tape had been used for that purpose, pre or post mortem, I would think that there absolutely would still be traces of tissue attached to adhesive side (hairs, skin, stuff like that), and from my understanding there was not. So I think the final position of the duct tape was simply due to movements of the environment around the body while it was sitting in the swamp.

The chloroform would still have to be made, which means that she would need materials that likely weren't available in the house. It would take time, and, if she had never done it before (as apparently evidenced by the internet search) she would have no experience. That means she would need to experiment, try different batches multiple times to get it to work, then figure out how she was going to recover it. In other words, it is not something that she could have done readily or quickly. If she wanted to kill Caylee there are much simpler ways of doing it. Why would she need to do something so exotic that she had no experience with? The prosecution came up with this theory to fit random observations into cause of death, but it is really kind of ridiculous.

The duct tape was attached to Caylee's hair. I suppose her hair was sticking out of the bag that was "duct taped" shut? It also does not explain how the mandible was still in place if the duct tape was not originally on Caylee's face.

Concerning the suicide thing and thinking that it was Casey that considered suicide, how can it be explained that she went over to Tony L's house later that day and then went to Blockbuster with him as if everything was normal? A person that is considering suicide is going to be depressed and will show signs of something being wrong. Casey displayed neither of those.

 

[Tugela]

Well, we know that she can keep a straight face, so her appearances that day mean nothing.

What we can say however is that the search she did immediately homed in on a link referencing suicide.

 

[Sammiejam]

It has taken me half a day but I have finally caught up! So wonderful to *see* everyone again but CRUSHING that it is for this reason.

I am so friggin dismayed that an "oversight" of such gigantic proportions was able to occur. I mean, its just STAGGERING that they knew she used FF but decided to LET IT GO !?!?! and not even TRY to get someone else to encrypt it? I literally CANNOT wrap my head around it!

2% ? 2 freaking % of her net usage for the day is what they let those prosecution lawyers go to trial with ? It is beyond shocking really.

I actually do think this could have made a difference to the Pee12. Casey used her password -HER. PASSWORD. - to log on to the interwebz at 2.50 to search for "fool-proof suffication". George was at work. Caylee turns up dead due to "suffication". Those are dots that even they could put together. (ok, maybe not...)

*deep sigh* *cuss words*

 

[TorisMom003]

Well, we know that she can keep a straight face, so her appearances that day mean nothing.

What we can say however is that the search she did immediately homed in on a link referencing suicide.

Ok, let's go with that for a minute. Let's say that things occurred the way Casey claims they did (pick a version, any of the many versions will do) that day. Let's say that Caylee died accidentally in the pool. Let's say that George found Caylee in the pool and yelled at Casey. Let's say that Casey ended up in the fetal position crying hysterically. How then can it be explained that she then went on the computer to check out outfits for the shot girls? How can it be explained that Caylee, not Casey, ended up in the wooded area down the road with three pieces of duct tape holding her mandible and teeth still in place, in three bags dead? Caylee ended up in the situation that is very similar to what was in that article that Casey looked at. Casey then decides to go on about her life as if nothing had happened. Even going so far as getting a Bella Vita tattoo. Do most suicidal people go get tattoos that are about the good life? What about the other searches that Casey did? Was she just goofing around when she looked up household weapons, how to make chloroform, etc? Or was she planning something sinister? And when you look at the past searches does it put the fool-proof suicide search in a different light?

 

[twall]

The relevant bit is:



The intent of the search is obvious.

Duct tape was used to secure the body and the packaging. That isn't hard to understand. I don't want to be graphic here, but if the body was decaying by the time it was disposed of, the duct tape might simply have been there to hold everything together. In any case, if duct tape had been used for that purpose, pre or post mortem, I would think that there absolutely would still be traces of tissue attached to adhesive side (hairs, skin, stuff like that), and from my understanding there was not. So I think the final position of the duct tape was simply due to movements of the environment around the body while it was sitting in the swamp.

The chloroform would still have to be made, which means that she would need materials that likely weren't available in the house. It would take time, and, if she had never done it before (as apparently evidenced by the internet search) she would have no experience. That means she would need to experiment, try different batches multiple times to get it to work, then figure out how she was going to recover it. In other words, it is not something that she could have done readily or quickly. If she wanted to kill Caylee there are much simpler ways of doing it. Why would she need to do something so exotic that she had no experience with? The prosecution came up with this theory to fit random observations into cause of death, but it is really kind of ridiculous.

Why would the tape have tissue on it when there was not a trace of it left on the remains? And it did have hair on it, Dr. G had to cut it to remove it from the hair mat which was being held on to the skull by the tape. And the tape just happened to end up wrapped around her skull when it was used to secure the packaging? Not logical at all. JMO

 

[twall]

A more likely explanation is that Casey was considering suicide since she was looking up suicide methods. It would still be consistent with her apparent account for the day. In fact it would be something that might be expected under those circumstances.

The prosecution did not prove that Caylee was poisoned with chloroform. They claimed that based on traces of chloroform found in the car, but, as any organic chemist would know, the amounts of any ingested chloroform would not be enough to account for anything found in the car. Chloroform is a lipophilic compound that would absorb in fatty tissue and stay there, it would not outgas from a body in any significant extent at the sorts of levels where you might be rendered unconcious. I am a chemist and in my opinion the prosecutions theory was ludicrous. At the very least they should have demonstrated that their theory was plausible using a control (such as an animal body pretreated with appropriate amounts of chloroform and packaged in such a way as to prevent fluid leakage).

And in any case, where would she have gotten chloroform from? It is not readily available, and while it could be made, it is not something easily or quickly done by someone with no experience or knowledge.

They also did not prove that she was suffocated. The evidence showed that the body had been wrapped. That does not mean it was wrapped prior to death.

Since chloroform is absorbed in fatty tissue and stays there is it possible it would be in adipocere?

 

[dizzychick]

What ever happened to the "shaking in his boots" we heard about yesterday?

I thought I had heard he and Pipitone were buddies so this just looks like a conspiracy for profit and fame on both parts

 

[believe09]

Casey, you suffocated your daughter with a plastic bag? And you thought about it, planned it first?

I have never read or imagined something so unbearably cruel. She is broken beyond repair I think.

 

[md89]

Well, we know that she can keep a straight face, so her appearances that day mean nothing.

What we can say however is that the search she did immediately homed in on a link referencing suicide.

BBM. After that she also clicked on a link that said 'Heated Wires Can Melt Disposable Breathing Circuits' and according to Jose Baez a website about killing rhododendrons. I think she just clicked on the first few hits she got on Google and was not neccesarily looking for websites about suicide. JMO.

 

[believe09]

Mods please permit me a shout out to all of you who changed the landscape here and were willing to go in front of the cameras to represent everyone who refused to let this case just die-

Thank you, and God please Bless and Keep you and yours.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Naturally, I fell asleep at 10:55 or so! Couldn't keep my eyes open.

Now, I'm reading the threads in reverse order.

JWG and AZ Lawyer, you are both incredible! Thank you for your hard work all through the years for this case.

As to whether or not this would have convicted Casey, I'm not so sure. In fact, I doubt that it would have made a difference to the jury. The stinky-decomposition in the car didn't do it, the presence of chloroform in the trunk of the car didn't do it, Casey's multitude of lies to LE didn't do it, her post-Caylee behavior didn't do it, the internet records available to the prosecution didn't do it.

What I remember most about the interviews by the two jurors is that they thought that she was guilty, but didn't know for sure how Caylee died. The evidence presented was more than adequate to do it, but I agree with the posters who say they were too lazy to do it. Even if the fool proof suffocation had been among the prosecution records, it wouldn't have mattered all that much to them. They never looked at a single piece of evidence during their deliberations which were far too short for a case of this complexity. I wish I had bookmarked the article about a jury that spent 3 months deliberating because they put all the pieces of the puzzle together on their own to assure themselves of a just verdict. Even without the Firefox records, there was more than enough evidence to convict for SOMETHING!

At the same time, I remember that, during the trial, the computer forensics experts probably spent more time complaining about the Firefox 2.0 and their inability to get to the records. Why they didn't send the computer to the FBI or FDLE and waited so long to examine it remains a mystery to me. I wondered at the time and still wonder about it today!

 

[atthelake]

AZ and JWG! Fantastic work that you two did. Your dedication to Caylee humbles me as to your endeavors uncovering this and getting the word out. Thank you.

And to others that came here now which we haven't seen in some time, :seeya:!

 

[raine1212]

Mods, I hope this ok to post..


Thank you AZ and JWG.. I appreciate the work and dedication to find the truth, we are Wesleuthers and we don't stop until we have the facts and truth. As a fellow sleuther I always look for the facts and never believe what I hear or read unless the facts are there to back it up. Excellent work.. I am very proud of your dedication.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Wow. While i have been OverlyObsessed with politics and economic matters...look what i missed. Great work WS peeps. One day i hope Casey Anthony will reap what she has sown. Just as OJ got his just desserts.
Speaking of dessert...
I must say that from watching the Pipitone video...JB has apparently been eating well.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

A person that is considering suicide is going to be depressed and will show signs of something being wrong. Casey displayed neither of those.

Have you ever known anyone who was considering suicide? seen them in the hours and days before they have committed suicide? I have and my observations are very different to what you say.

They don't display signs of being depressed and they don't show signs of something being wrong, if anything they can seem to be happier or calmer than usual.

 

[dizzychick]

At least it re affirms what really did happen and that is a fact Casey will never be able to escape...