Sievers Sidebar #3

[AlwaysShocked]

He reminds me of a male fellow business owner I once had interactions with. He would make inappropriate comments - sometimes even in front of his wife. She would merely roll her eyes. Finally one day I had just had it. I was in line at a buffet at a Chamber of Commerce luncheon with him behind me. He actually had the audacity to sidle up behind me and comment in a low voice how "great my *advertiser censored* looks in that skirt".
I wheeled around and faced him and in a LOUD voice said "You are s disgusting pig! I do NOT appreciate your inappropriate remarks and neither would my husband I'm sure! So leave me alone!"

There was dead silence all about us. I just got my food and took seat. He never bothered me after that.

So I say call these pigs out.

 

[Frigga]

I say call them out too! We have been trained as women to walk on eggshells- to be polite, nice and be good girls. The indoctrination begins early and we are taught to carry the shame!

People like Mark know this very well- they count on it.

 

[msboo]

He reminds me of a male fellow business owner I once had interactions with. He would make inappropriate comments - sometimes even in front of his wife. She would merely roll her eyes. Finally one day I had just had it. I was in line at a buffet at a Chamber of Commerce luncheon with him behind me. He actually had the audacity to sidle up behind me and comment in a low voice how "great my *advertiser censored* looks in that skirt".
I wheeled around and faced him and in a LOUD voice said "You are s disgusting pig! I do NOT appreciate your inappropriate remarks and neither would my husband I'm sure! So leave me alone!"

There was dead silence all about us. I just got my food and took seat. He never bothered me after that.

So I say call these pigs out.

Way ta go.... best way to handle stuff like that, good for you, AS! I never experienced anything like that thanks goodness. I was in therapy for depression years ago---very controlling, manipulating mother who loved to dump on the guilt. My therapist told me once... you can't control what others do BUT you can damn well control what you do yourself. Best advice I ever got. I told my mom we wouldn't being seeing her anymore, I wasn't going to put up with her "games" AND I wasn't going to have my then 4 year old daughter grow up guilty like my brother & I did. Told her I loved her, to get some help THEN maybe things could change. They didn't until years later she was older & sick---I took care of her until she died. We had a good ending, good for all involved. My daughter grew up strong, not afraid to stand up for herself either. No more games, no bs. My life was like Mary Poppins compared to the Sievers but manipulation & control reeks havoc at any level.

That's why MAG should move back up north with the kids. Life isn't easy but you can find your strength & the sun will shine.

 

[human]

Glad to hear these remarks. I was on a board and a guy in the audience said really inappropriate things. Not sexist but deragotary to me as a woman. I forget what they were.

Of course on a board you are supposed to be professional.

I finally had it after months of him hassling me. I said right in the meeting that it is inappropritate to talk like that and no one should talk to a woman like that and that I do not accept anyone talking like that to me.

The room was slient.

I have felt bad about this for years. I felt like I was unprofessional.

But your remarks have made me realize that women and any men who hear this stuff need to call it out. If not, it just emboldens people.

Thanks.

I wonder if anyone ever called Mark on his behavior?

 

[Frigga]

Yes, and yay! Good for you Msboo and I totally agree. Hope she takes them back to CT when all is said and done and she is able. Children really are amazingly resilient.

 

[Frigga]

I sincerely doubt it. Especially since Mark couches his grossly inappropriate behavior in the nice, goofy, just trying to get along image he portrays. In so many ways he's way more dangerous then the others who can barely hide it. KWIM. The wolf in sheeps clothing to the enth degree.

 

[FelicityLemon]

Glad to hear these remarks. I was on a board and a guy in the audience said really inappropriate things. Not sexist but deragotary to me as a woman. I forget what they were.

Of course on a board you are supposed to be professional.

I finally had it after months of him hassling me. I said right in the meeting that it is inappropritate to talk like that and no one should talk to a woman like that and that I do not accept anyone talking like that to me.

The room was slient.

I have felt bad about this for years. I felt like I was unprofessional.

But your remarks have made me realize that women and any men who hear this stuff need to call it out. If not, it just emboldens people.

Thanks.

I wonder if anyone ever called Mark on his behavior?

I wish I was there to hear you because I would have stood and applauded you! I'm saddened to think you weren't overtly supported and I'd like to think there were people who were happy dancing in their hearts because YOU did something about it and they were silent.

I think that was pretty awesome (very awesome, actually) of you and nothing unprofessional about it. Board members are supposed to behave in a respectful and courteous manner, he was the one who was out of line.

 

[Lawdog99]

Ya know- his "sexy momma" moniker for her was really starting to get to me. His endless compliments of her outward appearance too. I don't know about any of you- but maybe once in awhile (like on a date night or romantic weekend) I would want to hear that but I don't want to be known for being sexy- not even to my husband- incessantly.

I especially don't want my daughters thinking that is what makes them valuable. It's objectification and for all the wrong reasons. My husband is the first (and better be best) example to my daughters and son. They are watching, listening, paying attention or intuiting. I don't think for a moment their girls weren't.

Don't get me wrong, if I am dressed up for a special occasion I like it when my husband tells me I look nice or I look pretty- but to always hear that- takes away from all of the many things I want to be valued for. Someday looks fade, we get old and if my husbands attraction is hinged soley on my appearance- then what?

I want to be told I have a kind heart or beautiful eyes, that the way I mother our children is amazing- that I make him feel happy or special- that our talk last night was amazing, insightful or helpful... That's what I want my husband to recognize or find valuable about me and I certainly don't want my daughters hearing that sexy crap or being complimented for their attractiveness or looks, first or foremost.

He is so sex crazed, shallow and superficial and he certainly was driven by appearance and status. I think Teresa was attracted to status and appearance too, if I'm being honest, I don't think it was just him and she just went along with it. We don't have to make her a saint to make her life, work and service valuable. We don't have to pretend she didn't like those things nor overlook it- that serves no one. The truth does. She did not deserve to be lied to, manipulated or murdered. It doesn't make her a bad person but I don't think she minded the drivers, private tutors, expensive food, dinners and private beach clubs or designer clothing or handbags- even if they were used. There are a lot of people who care nothing for those things- who value other more simple, deep and intrinsic things.

To say that I am bothered by these texts and exchanges would be an understatement and many people played different parts in them- not just Mark.

Frigga, I totally agree and I have alluded to these things several times and it did not seem that I was very welcomed to WS based on some comments. I think TS was a great doctor, speaker and did a lot of good things for charities and such. But, I also believe she gave MS to much headway at home and in raising those girls because she was very busy with what drove her. I know she loved those girls but she believed everything MS told her and she honestly thought he was taking care of them the correct way and failed to see what their life was really like. If we could only do things over, but that is normally not an option. Praying for those girls.

 

[Lawdog99]

DexterMorgan you are so right. I just don't see how everyone was fooled by him. I believe TS mom would come down and spend a week or so with them, how did she not notice these things, or maybe MS and TS were gone during that time, but looks like to me, I would have noticed something freaky with the girls or noticeed something they would say did not add up. But maybe I am wired that way to be on the lookout for idiots. As my Daddy use to say well you could have searched the banks of Gum Swamp and not found anybody as sorry as him. (That was pretty much all my dates when I was young)

 

[mikeinmo]

Glad to hear these remarks. I was on a board and a guy in the audience said really inappropriate things. Not sexist but deragotary to me as a woman. I forget what they were.

Of course on a board you are supposed to be professional.

I finally had it after months of him hassling me. I said right in the meeting that it is inappropritate to talk like that and no one should talk to a woman like that and that I do not accept anyone talking like that to me.

The room was slient.

I have felt bad about this for years. I felt like I was unprofessional.

But your remarks have made me realize that women and any men who hear this stuff need to call it out. If not, it just emboldens people.

Thanks.

I wonder if anyone ever called Mark on his behavior?

Do not feel badly at all he deserved what he received and more. He should have been admonished by the entire board as not appropriate. No one should have to sit and abide by sexist and/or derogatory remarks. More to the point you should be proud you stood up to him. Good for you I hope he learned his lesson.

 

[lemondaktril]

What was the general impression other parents had of MS? Helicopter parent?

Jessicades, that is a hard one to answer as we left the school a year after the Siever's children left and well before the murder. I have always tried to avoid talking about kids and their parents to other parents as it is a slippery slope! Because we left the school, I have not been privy to what I am sure must have been a lot of chit-chat among parents after all this happened.

I can only tell you my observations of him. I couldn't stand him...he was trying so hard to be Mr. Popular with his silly grin and really chatting up all of the Mom's and making up to teachers and staff. Definitely a social climber, wannabe, overly helpful and wanted to make sure that you knew his wife was a doctor. I used to look at him in disbelief as that just didn't seem possible. I was so disturbed by him that eventually, I used to avoid contact with him at all lengths, other than a minimal "hi" if I couldn't avoid it! I was surprised at how many Mom's appeared to be so friendly with him and began to think it was just me. I was actually starting to dread drop-off in a morning as I knew that I would see him in the hallway and have to speak. I remember about a month into our last school year there, realizing that I hadn't seen him, and my delight at finding out that he was no longer at the school.

He was a total creep in my books...little did I know how creepy. I pay a lot more attention to my gut feelings these days!

 

[CarolinaMoon]

:thinking: Shenanigans?
Do we have a brilliant real estate person here who could tell us what's what?

11/17/2000: MS & TS buy a house for $48k
07/29/2004: they sell it to Mark's business (Universal Communications Unlimited, LLC) for $60k
10/14/2005: UCU, ltd sells it back to MS & TS for a loss at $58,100k
02/27/2006: UCU, ltd sells it back to MS & TS for NA (four months later)
02/27/2006: MS & TS sell it to an individual for $110,000
02/27/2006: That individual sells it to his own name, Inc.

I get transferring into protection, but is the above kosher?



http://tampa.blockshopper.com/property/163128381600000510/4933_14th_avenue_s

I'm always playing catch-up with this case. So much information and so little time!

I found your post to be very interesting. For anyone sleuthing the house, I'd like to point out the following additional information. This is all from my memory, but:

1. The Sievers' bought a double lot on which to build their new house.
2. There was a house already on the lot (explaining the $48,000 purchase price.)
3. While their house was being built, they lived in the older house.
4. Once finished, they moved into the house and sold the house next door. That could possibly be the $110,000 transaction.

Good luck finding more Real Estate information on this!

 

[Matlacha]

I think we're mixing two homes--an earlier one in the Tampa area, and the current one in Bonita Springs.

 

[Matlacha]

. . . Seriously, he was worse than useless, he was dangerous because of his arrogance and greed.

Remember how he looked at his hearings--feigning surprise, feigning innocence, feigning lack of recollection? She must have seen those same tired looks a lot.

A couple of other posts have suggested that her texts show she wasn't entirely blameless in the marriage. Possibly true, except isn't there reason to believe she'd reached the end of her rope, and that the threat of divorce was what triggered her murder?

 

[msboo]

I'm always playing catch-up with this case. So much information and so little time!

I found your post to be very interesting. For anyone sleuthing the house, I'd like to point out the following additional information. This is all from my memory, but:

1. The Sievers' bought a double lot on which to build their new house.
2. There was a house already on the lot (explaining the $48,000 purchase price.)
3. While their house was being built, they lived in the older house.
4. Once finished, they moved into the house and sold the house next door. That could possibly be the $110,000 transaction.

Good luck finding more Real Estate information on this!

PVA search sites have different set-ups depending. I noticed this info posted the other day.... buy-sell-buy-sell etc. Looks messy, maybe not, who knows with MS? The link is Tampa.blockshopper.com...... this info for a Gulfport, FL address (east of) St Pete area, south of Tampa. This address is on 14th Avenue South, in the 33707 zip code. Curious, so gonna check PVA search hell to find Jarvis addresses for Sievers new & previous home next door, maybe (?) see Sievers purchase history for older home & lot next door (for their then new build)---transaction histories aren't kept very long, depends on site.

Back in a few, grinding coffee beans... need my fuel !

 

[human]

I do wonder if there was divorce talk. We have not seen evidence of it though, have we?

If so, he knew the gravy train would be over.

Perhaps if he had found a well to do woman to take him, he would have simply divorced.

But maybe there was no woman of means waiting for him.

Of course on paper he looks like the doting husband and some lonely woman might find that appealing.

I have seen men leave highly attractive women for unattractive because the woman was totally paying attention to the man.

 

[AZlawyer]

I do wonder if there was divorce talk. We have not seen evidence of it though, have we?

If so, he knew the gravy train would be over.

Perhaps if he had found a well to do woman to take him, he would have simply divorced.

But maybe there was no woman of means waiting for him.

Of course on paper he looks like the doting husband and some lonely woman might find that appealing.

I have seen men leave highly attractive women for unattractive because the woman was totally paying attention to the man.

I think we have seen indirect evidence of divorce talk. I'm on my phone right now so going entirely by memory, but there is a calendar entry not long before MS tells CWW he has a personal issue to discuss saying "T called me 11:48 pm" or something like that, with a redacted space after it, then a day or so later is the big blank space after announcing he and TS had a "talk", and around the same time he sends a text to TS saying something like "you don't have to feel it but I love you" and references that suggest they are sleeping in separate rooms most of the time (which I think we had already figured out).

 

[human]

Hard to say what the talk would be.

She was planning on a vacation. That does not sound like divorce to me.

I am not objective because he is so sickening to me. Swarmy. Ugh. I cannot imagine being with him,

 

[msboo]

I think we're mixing two homes--an earlier one in the Tampa area, and the current one in Bonita Springs.

No, same house, same Gulfport address... sell-buy $$ in that order too from 11/17/2000 to 2/27/2006.
NOTE: below---quotation marks where info varies, but I put all exactly how it's entered in the official records.... ALSO we can't be 100% sure that variations in a business title is correct as I've seen official info entered incorrectly at times (UNLESS MS was playin' with his titles)

11/17/2000.... $ 48,000 Mark D Sievers buyer
07/29/2004.... $ 60,000 Mark D Sievers seller & "Universal Comm Unltd Llc" buyer and we know "Universal" is MS
10/14/2005.... $ 58,100 "Communications Unlim Universal", Mark D Sievers seller & Mark D Sievers, Teresa A Sievers buyer
02/27/2006.... $ N/A "Communications Unlim Universal", Mark D Sievers seller & Mark D Sievers, Teresa A Sievers buyer
02/27/2006.... $110,000 Mark D Sievers, Teresa A Sievers seller & ----------------- buyer

ALL ABOVE are on record as Resale under the "Type" column:
2000 Mark buys this property
July 2004 Mark sells it to his business for a $12,000 profit
Oct 2005 Marks' biz sells it to 'Mark, Teresa' for $1,900 less OR at a loss INSTEAD OF JUST A title/name change (???)
02/27/2006 NOTICE the 2 identical dates, the 1st has N/A---not sure why but it's a repeat of the 2005 title/name(s), it was already put into their separate (AND not 'Mark & Teresa) names in 2005.... maybe PVA messed up & had to re-submit before recording this last Resale as 'Mark, Teresa' sells for $110,000 at a $51,100 profit

MS selling his property to his biz for $12,000 profit, then what should have been ONLY a title change due to them being married is a Resale @ $1,900 loss, and finally the last Resale @ $51,900 profit. I can't remember their marriage date/year but I have to wonder what went on----was TS just trusting MS therefore signing stuff wildly-nilly or what?

 

[InterestedViewer]

MS selling his property to his biz for $12,000 profit, then what should have been ONLY a title change due to them being married is a Resale @ $1,900 loss, and finally the last Resale @ $51,900 profit. I can't remember their marriage date/year but I have to wonder what went on----was TS just trusting MS therefore signing stuff wildly-nilly or what?

From my recollection, I believe TS and KC were divorced in March, 2003 and TS and MS were married that same year in October (if I remember correctly).